But I think there might be people who don't fully understand why we're doing that and how it can be used in their saves.
So I just want to reveal you the power of the player attributes testing.
Here's a striker from our tactic testing league. He is about 145CA:
If you look at the results of our attribute testing then you'll notice that some attributes such as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' makes a huge difference and some attributes such as 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' almost doesn't make any difference.
Of course, it's important to understand that 'Acceleration' and 'Pace' attributes are much more expensive in terms of CA(Current Ability) than 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' attributes. For example, 1 Point of Acceleration costs about 2.5CA when 1 Point of Teamwork costs only 0.3CA.
But what if take our striker and redistribute his CA from less important attributes such as Composure, Teamwork, Off The Ball, Long Shots to very important important attributes such as Acceleration and Pace keeping the same CA:
Notice that the CA of our striker hasn't changed, it's still 145CA, we just redistributed it.
Now, let's do a similar redistribution for other positions keeping the same CA and then test it:
Default Attributes Result:
Redistributed Attributes Result:
As you can see the points have skyrocketed from 53 to 90 and the G.D. has skyrocketed from +3 to +62 but the CA of the players hasn't changed!
From the result above we can conclude if players have the same CA then it doesn't mean they are equal quality, some of them might be much better than others. Obviously, in FM some attributes such as Acceleration and Pace are game-changing attributes, they make a huge difference and you should prioritize them.
As I always thought, you can spend weeks or month on improving your tactic to boost your results by 1%-2% or you can just buy players with "proper attributes" and boost your result by 100%-200%
It's what we talk about in the thread with @Mark and @ZaZ about importants attributes. The aim is to find an efficiency global note for plaers, and not to know if they have the best or worst CA.
But something is important, if you have a player with a nice "gap" of CA, you can make him go to the better attributes.
For me definitive CA is clearly the last important thing to note.
But I think there might be people who don't fully understand why we're doing that and how it can be used in their saves.
So I just want to reveal you the power of the player attributes testing.
Here's a striker from our tactic testing league. He is about 145CA:
If you look at the results of our attribute testing then you'll notice that some attributes such as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' makes a huge difference and some attributes such as 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' almost doesn't make any difference.
Of course, it's important to understand that 'Acceleration' and 'Pace' attributes are much more expensive in terms of CA(Current Ability) than 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' attributes. For example, 1 Point of Acceleration costs about 2.5CA when 1 Point of Teamwork costs only 0.3CA.
But what if take our striker and redistribute his CA from less important attributes such as Composure, Teamwork, Off The Ball, Long Shots to very important important attributes such as Acceleration and Pace keeping the same CA:
Notice that the CA of our striker hasn't changed, it's still 145CA, we just redistributed it.
Now, let's do a similar redistribution for other positions keeping the same CA and then test it:
Default Attributes Result:
Redistributed Attributes Result:
As you can see the points skyrocketed from 53 to 90 and the G.D. skyrocketed from +3 to +62 but all players had the same CA!
From the result above we can conclude if players have the same CA then it doesn't mean they are equal quality, some of them might be much better than others. Obviously, in FM some attributes such as Acceleration and Pace are game-changing attributes, they make a huge difference and you should prioritize them. Expand
Will I upload the most important attributes for position and the individual train for positions(during their career)so we can maximize them .
Chewbacca said: As I always thought, you can spend weeks or month on improving your tactic to boost your results by 1%-2% or you can just buy players with "proper attributes" and boost your result by 100%-200% Expand
Yes, it's like this every year. When I have given players a lot of pace and acceleration training for the last 3 years, I feel that these features of the players develop more slowly when compared to standard trainings.
pixar said: Yes, it's like this every year. When I have given players a lot of pace and acceleration training for the last 3 years, I feel that these features of the players develop more slowly when compared to standard trainings. Expand
I always find that it's much easier to buy suitable players then to develop such players
tom100000000000 said: So if 2.5CA will get you 1 point in acceleration but 8 points in teamwork, its still probably worth it. 1 acc > 8 teamwork probably, which is crazy Expand For example, 'Decisions' attribute is very expensive for every position and it costs almost the same as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes but 'Decisions' attribute almost doesn't have any significant impact on the result unlike the 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes, which have a great impact on the result.
Zippo said: For example, 'Decisions' attribute is very expensive for every position and it costs almost the same as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes but 'Decisions' attribute almost doesn't have any significant impact on the result unlike the 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes, which have a great impact on the result. Expand
In other words, low Decisions is a good step to get a good player. Determination also seems to have some impact, and since it's a free attribute (like Natural Fitness, Aggression and Flair), should also have a good value.
Poacher said: no doubts, if you know how to Min/Max the attributes then you can achieve an incredible result in FM Expand
But i'm not sure we can do what we want about this. I think there is a potential for all players, if they reach CA? they reach some attributes, but can we really change attributes ?
Falbravv said: But i'm not sure we can do what we want about this. I think there is a potential for all players, if they reach CA? they reach some attributes, but can we really change attributes ? Expand
I find in FM you really can't change attributes of players, the training is kidna useless BUT you can buy players that have overpowered attributes.
Poacher said: I find in FM you really can't change attributes of players, the training is kidna useless BUT you can buy players that have overpowered attributes. Expand
ZaZ said: There are some attributes that are only important to one or another position, so they are very hard to measure in tests that consider the entire team. For example, it's pretty obvious that Jumping Reach affects way more the performance of central defenders than wingers. Stamina and Work Rate should also affect more the players that are more involved in the match, like flank players and midfielders, and Finishing has more impact on strikers. It's pretty obvious, but it's not easy to measure. Expand
@Mark Do you plan on doing any GS rating updates with the FM23 attribute tests? Seems they are a bit different than previous years, although largely still in line of course.
saycarramrod said: @Mark Do you plan on doing any GS rating updates with the FM23 attribute tests? Seems they are a bit different than previous years, although largely still in line of course. Expand
I will probably have a look when they are finished and when the next update comes out.
guys can you do a test for crossing??? pretty sure this one should have at least bigger impact in performance and Goalkeeper attributes would be very nice as well
But I think there might be people who don't fully understand why we're doing that and how it can be used in their saves.
So I just want to reveal you the power of the player attributes testing.
Here's a striker from our tactic testing league. He is about 145CA:
If you look at the results of our attribute testing then you'll notice that some attributes such as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' makes a huge difference and some attributes such as 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' almost doesn't make any difference.
Of course, it's important to understand that 'Acceleration' and 'Pace' attributes are much more expensive in terms of CA(Current Ability) than 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' attributes. For example, 1 Point of Acceleration costs about 2.5CA when 1 Point of Teamwork costs only 0.3CA.
But what if take our striker and redistribute his CA from less important attributes such as Composure, Teamwork, Off The Ball, Long Shots to very important important attributes such as Acceleration and Pace keeping the same CA:
Notice that the CA of our striker hasn't changed, it's still 145CA, we just redistributed it.
Now, let's do a similar redistribution for other positions keeping the same CA and then test it:
Default Attributes Result:
Redistributed Attributes Result:
As you can see the points have skyrocketed from 53 to 90 and the G.D. has skyrocketed from +3 to +62 but the CA of the players hasn't changed!
From the result above we can conclude if players have the same CA then it doesn't mean they are equal quality, some of them might be much better than others. Obviously, in FM some attributes such as Acceleration and Pace are game-changing attributes, they make a huge difference and you should prioritize them. Expand
When I set players up with the attributes your before and after Striker has, the original has an RCA of 145 but the adjusted striker has an RCA around 130?
Mark said: When I set players up with the attributes your before and after Striker has, the original has an RCA of 145 but the adjusted striker has an RCA around 130? Expand
Yes, that might be correct. I think when I checked the striker in our testing league he got few playing positions, for example, STC, AML, AMR, ML and so on. That's why his RCA was higher than for a pure striker.
Zippo said: Yes, that might be correct. I think when I checked the striker in our testing league he got few playing positions, for example, STC, AML, AMR, ML and so on. That's why his RCA was higher than for a pure striker. Expand
That makes sense. Thanks. I was just checking the different Genie Scout ratings files against the 2 Strikers. When I took the second one up to 145 CA it made more sense. I had them both as Natural Strikers with no other positions
But I think there might be people who don't fully understand why we're doing that and how it can be used in their saves.
So I just want to reveal you the power of the player attributes testing.
Here's a striker from our tactic testing league. He is about 145CA:
If you look at the results of our attribute testing then you'll notice that some attributes such as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' makes a huge difference and some attributes such as 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' almost doesn't make any difference.
Of course, it's important to understand that 'Acceleration' and 'Pace' attributes are much more expensive in terms of CA(Current Ability) than 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' attributes. For example, 1 Point of Acceleration costs about 2.5CA when 1 Point of Teamwork costs only 0.3CA.
But what if take our striker and redistribute his CA from less important attributes such as Composure, Teamwork, Off The Ball, Long Shots to very important important attributes such as Acceleration and Pace keeping the same CA:
Notice that the CA of our striker hasn't changed, it's still 145CA, we just redistributed it.
Now, let's do a similar redistribution for other positions keeping the same CA and then test it:
Default Attributes Result:
Redistributed Attributes Result:
As you can see the points have skyrocketed from 53 to 90 and the G.D. has skyrocketed from +3 to +62 but the CA of the players hasn't changed!
From the result above we can conclude if players have the same CA then it doesn't mean they are equal quality, some of them might be much better than others. Obviously, in FM some attributes such as Acceleration and Pace are game-changing attributes, they make a huge difference and you should prioritize them. Expand
@Zippo is there any chance you can share the screen shots of the other positions before and after.
Hi,
I'm sure you guys are aware that we've been testing player attributes to find out which of them make the most difference - https://fm-arena.com/table/18-fm23-attribute-testing/
But I think there might be people who don't fully understand why we're doing that and how it can be used in their saves.
So I just want to reveal you the power of the player attributes testing.
Here's a striker from our tactic testing league. He is about 145CA:
If you look at the results of our attribute testing then you'll notice that some attributes such as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' makes a huge difference and some attributes such as 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' almost doesn't make any difference.
Of course, it's important to understand that 'Acceleration' and 'Pace' attributes are much more expensive in terms of CA(Current Ability) than 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' attributes. For example, 1 Point of Acceleration costs about 2.5CA when 1 Point of Teamwork costs only 0.3CA.
But what if take our striker and redistribute his CA from less important attributes such as Composure, Teamwork, Off The Ball, Long Shots to very important important attributes such as Acceleration and Pace keeping the same CA:
Notice that the CA of our striker hasn't changed, it's still 145CA, we just redistributed it.
Now, let's do a similar redistribution for other positions keeping the same CA and then test it:
Default Attributes Result:
Redistributed Attributes Result:
As you can see the points have skyrocketed from 53 to 90 and the G.D. has skyrocketed from +3 to +62 but the CA of the players hasn't changed!
From the result above we can conclude if players have the same CA then it doesn't mean they are equal quality, some of them might be much better than others. Obviously, in FM some attributes such as Acceleration and Pace are game-changing attributes, they make a huge difference and you should prioritize them.
Great stuff!
Good job
As I always thought, you can spend weeks or month on improving your tactic to boost your results by 1%-2% or you can just buy players with "proper attributes" and boost your result by 100%-200%
It's what we talk about in the thread with @Mark and @ZaZ about importants attributes.
The aim is to find an efficiency global note for plaers, and not to know if they have the best or worst CA.
But something is important, if you have a player with a nice "gap" of CA, you can make him go to the better attributes.
For me definitive CA is clearly the last important thing to note.
@Zippo Like always, thanks for this amazing work
Zippo said: Hi,
I'm sure you guys are aware that we've been testing player attributes to find out which of them make the most difference - https://fm-arena.com/table/18-fm23-attribute-testing/
But I think there might be people who don't fully understand why we're doing that and how it can be used in their saves.
So I just want to reveal you the power of the player attributes testing.
Here's a striker from our tactic testing league. He is about 145CA:
If you look at the results of our attribute testing then you'll notice that some attributes such as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' makes a huge difference and some attributes such as 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' almost doesn't make any difference.
Of course, it's important to understand that 'Acceleration' and 'Pace' attributes are much more expensive in terms of CA(Current Ability) than 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' attributes. For example, 1 Point of Acceleration costs about 2.5CA when 1 Point of Teamwork costs only 0.3CA.
But what if take our striker and redistribute his CA from less important attributes such as Composure, Teamwork, Off The Ball, Long Shots to very important important attributes such as Acceleration and Pace keeping the same CA:
Notice that the CA of our striker hasn't changed, it's still 145CA, we just redistributed it.
Now, let's do a similar redistribution for other positions keeping the same CA and then test it:
Default Attributes Result:
Redistributed Attributes Result:
As you can see the points skyrocketed from 53 to 90 and the G.D. skyrocketed from +3 to +62 but all players had the same CA!
From the result above we can conclude if players have the same CA then it doesn't mean they are equal quality, some of them might be much better than others. Obviously, in FM some attributes such as Acceleration and Pace are game-changing attributes, they make a huge difference and you should prioritize them.
Will I upload the most important attributes for position and the individual train for positions(during their career)so we can maximize them .
Chewbacca said: As I always thought, you can spend weeks or month on improving your tactic to boost your results by 1%-2% or you can just buy players with "proper attributes" and boost your result by 100%-200%
I think the same as you, pal.
There are no exploits in tactic in FM23 and if you want to have an edge over the AI then you have to looks for exploits in the attributes.
Yes, it's like this every year. When I have given players a lot of pace and acceleration training for the last 3 years, I feel that these features of the players develop more slowly when compared to standard trainings.
pixar said: Yes, it's like this every year. When I have given players a lot of pace and acceleration training for the last 3 years, I feel that these features of the players develop more slowly when compared to standard trainings.
I always find that it's much easier to buy suitable players then to develop such players
Great stuff. I knew some attributes were more important than others, but given the CA cost varies I wondered if it cancelled out. Apparently not.
So if 2.5CA will get you 1 point in acceleration but 8 points in teamwork, its still probably worth it. 1 acc > 8 teamwork probably, which is crazy
tom100000000000 said: So if 2.5CA will get you 1 point in acceleration but 8 points in teamwork, its still probably worth it. 1 acc > 8 teamwork probably, which is crazy
For example, 'Decisions' attribute is very expensive for every position and it costs almost the same as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes but 'Decisions' attribute almost doesn't have any significant impact on the result unlike the 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes, which have a great impact on the result.
Zippo said: For example, 'Decisions' attribute is very expensive for every position and it costs almost the same as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes but 'Decisions' attribute almost doesn't have any significant impact on the result unlike the 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes, which have a great impact on the result.
In other words, low Decisions is a good step to get a good player. Determination also seems to have some impact, and since it's a free attribute (like Natural Fitness, Aggression and Flair), should also have a good value.
In fact, what is sure, is that if you have a player with 1 on a lot of attributes but 18-20 on Pace Acc and other, it's the most important.
no doubts, if you know how to Min/Max the attributes then you can achieve an incredible result in FM
Poacher said: no doubts, if you know how to Min/Max the attributes then you can achieve an incredible result in FM
But i'm not sure we can do what we want about this. I think there is a potential for all players, if they reach CA? they reach some attributes, but can we really change attributes ?
Falbravv said: But i'm not sure we can do what we want about this. I think there is a potential for all players, if they reach CA? they reach some attributes, but can we really change attributes ?
I find in FM you really can't change attributes of players, the training is kidna useless BUT you can buy players that have overpowered attributes.
Poacher said: I find in FM you really can't change attributes of players, the training is kidna useless BUT you can buy players that have overpowered attributes.
ok agree
Which are the most important attributes for positions so I can maximize them?@Zippo
@Enok
I think @ZaZ explained it well
ZaZ said: There are some attributes that are only important to one or another position, so they are very hard to measure in tests that consider the entire team. For example, it's pretty obvious that Jumping Reach affects way more the performance of central defenders than wingers. Stamina and Work Rate should also affect more the players that are more involved in the match, like flank players and midfielders, and Finishing has more impact on strikers. It's pretty obvious, but it's not easy to measure.
@Mark Do you plan on doing any GS rating updates with the FM23 attribute tests? Seems they are a bit different than previous years, although largely still in line of course.
saycarramrod said: @Mark Do you plan on doing any GS rating updates with the FM23 attribute tests? Seems they are a bit different than previous years, although largely still in line of course.
I will probably have a look when they are finished and when the next update comes out.
Really a very good work here, guys.
guys can you do a test for crossing??? pretty sure this one should have at least bigger impact in performance and Goalkeeper attributes would be very nice as well
please test for me: change 3 attributes: anticipation + workrate + det with lowest, and push pace and acc with highest.
Ronaldo De Lima said: please test for me: change 3 attributes: anticipation + workrate + det with lowest, and push pace and acc with highest.
Acc and Pace are already done
Zippo said: Hi,
I'm sure you guys are aware that we've been testing player attributes to find out which of them make the most difference - https://fm-arena.com/table/18-fm23-attribute-testing/
But I think there might be people who don't fully understand why we're doing that and how it can be used in their saves.
So I just want to reveal you the power of the player attributes testing.
Here's a striker from our tactic testing league. He is about 145CA:
If you look at the results of our attribute testing then you'll notice that some attributes such as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' makes a huge difference and some attributes such as 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' almost doesn't make any difference.
Of course, it's important to understand that 'Acceleration' and 'Pace' attributes are much more expensive in terms of CA(Current Ability) than 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' attributes. For example, 1 Point of Acceleration costs about 2.5CA when 1 Point of Teamwork costs only 0.3CA.
But what if take our striker and redistribute his CA from less important attributes such as Composure, Teamwork, Off The Ball, Long Shots to very important important attributes such as Acceleration and Pace keeping the same CA:
Notice that the CA of our striker hasn't changed, it's still 145CA, we just redistributed it.
Now, let's do a similar redistribution for other positions keeping the same CA and then test it:
Default Attributes Result:
Redistributed Attributes Result:
As you can see the points have skyrocketed from 53 to 90 and the G.D. has skyrocketed from +3 to +62 but the CA of the players hasn't changed!
From the result above we can conclude if players have the same CA then it doesn't mean they are equal quality, some of them might be much better than others. Obviously, in FM some attributes such as Acceleration and Pace are game-changing attributes, they make a huge difference and you should prioritize them.
When I set players up with the attributes your before and after Striker has, the original has an RCA of 145 but the adjusted striker has an RCA around 130?
Mark said: When I set players up with the attributes your before and after Striker has, the original has an RCA of 145 but the adjusted striker has an RCA around 130?
Yes, that might be correct. I think when I checked the striker in our testing league he got few playing positions, for example, STC, AML, AMR, ML and so on. That's why his RCA was higher than for a pure striker.
Zippo said: Yes, that might be correct. I think when I checked the striker in our testing league he got few playing positions, for example, STC, AML, AMR, ML and so on. That's why his RCA was higher than for a pure striker.
That makes sense. Thanks. I was just checking the different Genie Scout ratings files against the 2 Strikers. When I took the second one up to 145 CA it made more sense. I had them both as Natural Strikers with no other positions
Zippo said: Hi,
I'm sure you guys are aware that we've been testing player attributes to find out which of them make the most difference - https://fm-arena.com/table/18-fm23-attribute-testing/
But I think there might be people who don't fully understand why we're doing that and how it can be used in their saves.
So I just want to reveal you the power of the player attributes testing.
Here's a striker from our tactic testing league. He is about 145CA:
If you look at the results of our attribute testing then you'll notice that some attributes such as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' makes a huge difference and some attributes such as 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' almost doesn't make any difference.
Of course, it's important to understand that 'Acceleration' and 'Pace' attributes are much more expensive in terms of CA(Current Ability) than 'Teamwork' or 'Off The Ball' attributes. For example, 1 Point of Acceleration costs about 2.5CA when 1 Point of Teamwork costs only 0.3CA.
But what if take our striker and redistribute his CA from less important attributes such as Composure, Teamwork, Off The Ball, Long Shots to very important important attributes such as Acceleration and Pace keeping the same CA:
Notice that the CA of our striker hasn't changed, it's still 145CA, we just redistributed it.
Now, let's do a similar redistribution for other positions keeping the same CA and then test it:
Default Attributes Result:
Redistributed Attributes Result:
As you can see the points have skyrocketed from 53 to 90 and the G.D. has skyrocketed from +3 to +62 but the CA of the players hasn't changed!
From the result above we can conclude if players have the same CA then it doesn't mean they are equal quality, some of them might be much better than others. Obviously, in FM some attributes such as Acceleration and Pace are game-changing attributes, they make a huge difference and you should prioritize them.
@Zippo is there any chance you can share the screen shots of the other positions before and after.
Thanks