I've been noticing that an intensive testing of different width combinations for wingers and fullbacks happens here.
So I just want to share with you my thoughts and experience about it.
First of all, in order overlap runs happen the wingers must sit narrower than the fullbacks otherwise overlap runs won't happen.
And I'm almost sure that when you add "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI then this happens:
- the wingers get their width setting set at "Narrow"
- the fullbacks get their width setting set at "Wide"
- the wingers get their "Forward Runs" setting reduced
- the fullbacks get their "Forward Runs" setting increased
(some other things might happen under the hood)
As we know, TIs override PIs, which means if you have "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI then any PIs that change the width setting for the wingers and fullbacks won't have any effect.
Btw, the test results kinda prove that because the difference between different width settings for the wingers and fullbacks when there are "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI are present is just less than 1 point, which is within the margin of error for 6K matches test.
So I suggest when you test PIs then make sure you don't use any TIs that might override the PIs.
I've been noticing that an intensive testing of different width combinations for wingers and fullbacks happens here.
So I just want to share with you my thoughts and experience about it.
First of all, in order overlap runs happen the wingers must sit narrower than the fullbacks otherwise overlap runs won't happen.
And I'm almost sure that when you add "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI then this happens:
- the wingers get their width setting set at "Narrow"
- the fullbacks get their width setting set at "Wide"
- the wingers get their "Forward Runs" setting reduced
- the fullbacks get their "Forward Runs" setting increased
(some other things might happen under the hood)
As we know, TIs override PIs, which means if you have "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI then any PIs that change the width setting for the wingers and fullbacks won't have any effect.
Btw, the test results kinda prove that because the difference between different width settings for the wingers and fullbacks when there are "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI are present is just less than 1 point, which is within the margin of error for 6K matches test.
So I suggest when you test PIs then make sure you don't use any TIs that might override the PIs.
Cheers. Expand
That explains why my personal tests for width were so inconsistent with table results, since I don't use overlaps.
I just want to be clear my knowledge about how the overlap TI works is from the devs BUT it might be outdated because it was the previous FM versions and they might change the way it works for FM23.
BUT still I think it's useful to know how it worked before ( it still might work the same right now ).
Zippo said: I just want to be clear my knowledge about how the overlap TI works is from the devs BUT it might be outdated because it was the previous FM versions and they might change the way it works for FM23.
BUT still I think it's useful to know how it worked before ( it still might work the same right now ). Expand
Well, I changed only two things in my updated Water, and the decrease in quality was noticeable (still in the limit of RNG, but still a big decrease). Since I don't think the cause was shorter passing, I assume it's the narrow for WB. The only changes were those two.
ZaZ said: Well, I changed only two things in my updated Water, and the decrease in quality was noticeable (still in the limit of RNG, but still a big decrease). Since I don't think the cause was shorter passing, I assume it's the narrow for WB. The only changes were those two. Expand
If I understand correctly, narrow WB with wide IF would favor Underlaps, which are not working very well in this patch. I just wonder if it's better to have neutral WB and IF, or if they are better both wide to stretch the field away from midfield (in a context without overlap team instruction). By my observations, the biggest problem in this patch is that interceptions were buffed, so passes through the middle have high chance to concede possession.
ZaZ said: I just wonder if it's better to have neutral WB and IF, or if they are better both wide to stretch the field away from midfield (in a context without overlap team instruction). Expand If you look at the result of this test - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2899-width/
then you'll see that there's almost no difference between the minimal value and the maximal value of the width setting.
Of course, for a different formation with different roles, duties, TIs the result might be different but I don't think there'll be much difference.
Anyway, if someone's gonna test different combinations of the Width setting for the wingers and fullback then obviously, it must be done without the "Overlap" TI because it might override the width settings of the wingers and fullbacks.
Hey,
I've been noticing that an intensive testing of different width combinations for wingers and fullbacks happens here.
So I just want to share with you my thoughts and experience about it.
First of all, in order overlap runs happen the wingers must sit narrower than the fullbacks otherwise overlap runs won't happen.
And I'm almost sure that when you add "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI then this happens:
- the wingers get their width setting set at "Narrow"
- the fullbacks get their width setting set at "Wide"
- the wingers get their "Forward Runs" setting reduced
- the fullbacks get their "Forward Runs" setting increased
(some other things might happen under the hood)
As we know, TIs override PIs, which means if you have "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI then any PIs that change the width setting for the wingers and fullbacks won't have any effect.
Btw, the test results kinda prove that because the difference between different width settings for the wingers and fullbacks when there are "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI are present is just less than 1 point, which is within the margin of error for 6K matches test.
So I suggest when you test PIs then make sure you don't use any TIs that might override the PIs.
Cheers.
Zippo said: Hey,
I've been noticing that an intensive testing of different width combinations for wingers and fullbacks happens here.
So I just want to share with you my thoughts and experience about it.
First of all, in order overlap runs happen the wingers must sit narrower than the fullbacks otherwise overlap runs won't happen.
And I'm almost sure that when you add "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI then this happens:
- the wingers get their width setting set at "Narrow"
- the fullbacks get their width setting set at "Wide"
- the wingers get their "Forward Runs" setting reduced
- the fullbacks get their "Forward Runs" setting increased
(some other things might happen under the hood)
As we know, TIs override PIs, which means if you have "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI then any PIs that change the width setting for the wingers and fullbacks won't have any effect.
Btw, the test results kinda prove that because the difference between different width settings for the wingers and fullbacks when there are "Overlap Left" TI and "Overlap Right" TI are present is just less than 1 point, which is within the margin of error for 6K matches test.
So I suggest when you test PIs then make sure you don't use any TIs that might override the PIs.
Cheers.
That explains why my personal tests for width were so inconsistent with table results, since I don't use overlaps.
I just want to be clear my knowledge about how the overlap TI works is from the devs BUT it might be outdated because it was the previous FM versions and they might change the way it works for FM23.
BUT still I think it's useful to know how it worked before ( it still might work the same right now ).
Zippo said: I just want to be clear my knowledge about how the overlap TI works is from the devs BUT it might be outdated because it was the previous FM versions and they might change the way it works for FM23.
BUT still I think it's useful to know how it worked before ( it still might work the same right now ).
Well, I changed only two things in my updated Water, and the decrease in quality was noticeable (still in the limit of RNG, but still a big decrease). Since I don't think the cause was shorter passing, I assume it's the narrow for WB. The only changes were those two.
ZaZ said: Well, I changed only two things in my updated Water, and the decrease in quality was noticeable (still in the limit of RNG, but still a big decrease). Since I don't think the cause was shorter passing, I assume it's the narrow for WB. The only changes were those two.
Yup, it could be the reason.
Zippo said: Yup, it could be the reason.
If I understand correctly, narrow WB with wide IF would favor Underlaps, which are not working very well in this patch. I just wonder if it's better to have neutral WB and IF, or if they are better both wide to stretch the field away from midfield (in a context without overlap team instruction). By my observations, the biggest problem in this patch is that interceptions were buffed, so passes through the middle have high chance to concede possession.
ZaZ said: I just wonder if it's better to have neutral WB and IF, or if they are better both wide to stretch the field away from midfield (in a context without overlap team instruction).
If you look at the result of this test - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2899-width/
then you'll see that there's almost no difference between the minimal value and the maximal value of the width setting.
Of course, for a different formation with different roles, duties, TIs the result might be different but I don't think there'll be much difference.
Anyway, if someone's gonna test different combinations of the Width setting for the wingers and fullback then obviously, it must be done without the "Overlap" TI because it might override the width settings of the wingers and fullbacks.