The question is easy. Is there any successful possession style tactic?
In my opinion, it is very difficult, to get at least 60-65% possession per game. With the OP tactics from fm-arena, I had games against the 18th and had 30-35% possession.
Is there any good tactic? I try to adapt (in game tactic) of Arsenal or Manchester City, but it does not work. In attachment, you see 2 examples.
Furthermore, if I choose "much shorter" passing, is that like time-wasting?
ocarty said: The question is easy. Is there any successful possession style tactic?
In my opinion, it is very difficult, to get at least 60-65% possession per game. With the OP tactics from fm-arena, I had games against the 18th and had 30-35% possession.
Is there any good tactic? I try to adapt (in game tactic) of Arsenal or Manchester City, but it does not work. In attachment, you see 2 examples.
Furthermore, if I choose "much shorter" passing, is that like time-wasting? Expand
It's not like there is no "good" possession tactic, you are just looking on the wrong side of the game.
If you want a 60 rate possession tactic ain't happening on FM, doesn't mean you can't achieve good results with it.
Every TI/PI have pro and cons.
Example if you go play out of defence you will most likely get minus results, but in some shape is working okay.
Dribble less is literally a malus in the engine, work in the ball as well.
And if your players do any kind of mistake, it's gonna be hard to score goals for you.
This is the very reason why defensive builds are not working as well..
And the ultimate master piece of the engine is you don't really need anything of those to achieve "possession", you need just physical dominat players everywhere. You can do a random vacation with any tactic here with city and you will achieve around 50-55% avg possession.
Now, the question is, do you care if you don't win? You want just possession?
- Enjoy your style - Enjoy the Meta
Here an example of Guardiola build, that i am working on :
I just joined Valencia there were 20th super disaster season and i put on that tactic and it turned it out like that for now :
I think if you got that much possession consistently you would win every game by 5+ goals. We can’t really know if it’s a design decision or just a consequence of how other things are tuned in the match engine, but having the attributes to maintain possession also gives you the attributes to get xG. There are already a lot of complaints about losing despite xG heavily in favor of the player; imagine if SI added even more randomness so that teams could posses the ball more but still be frustrated by the defense.
Tiki taka possession based tactics that can easily achieve that kind of percentage are notorious for not really scoring goals. They pass the ball till they are dead and generate 1 xg per game or something silly low.
You can win with possession. I wouldn't choose to use a lower tempo but even having very short passes and high tempo can lead to 60% average possession over a season (despite not having many passes which is very odd)
I think it's more the fact that FM is trying to copy real-life in that possession football isn't the best way to overachieve (think Leicester, Luton, even Watford in the 80s)
What I find is that possession % is also heavily influenced by squad quality. So it's maybe not so much that high possession leads to good results but rather a good squad will win more games and have a decently high possession.
In FM22, I managed to have a pretty successful save (winning multiple champions league with Sporting CP) with a very slow tempo, possession style tactic, averaging more than 700 passes per game. It looked like this:
However, like others have said in the thread, in FM24 it seems to be impossible to be this successful with a possession style tactic, even with the best team in the world, it always seems like we can't create enough chances.
I loved the way this tactic played in the FM22 engine, and to be honest it kinda bums me out I can't have anything close to it on FM24.
lagoalaguna said: I loved the way this tactic played in the FM22 engine, and to be honest it kinda bums me out I can't have anything close to it on FM24. Expand
so, I've been unsuccessfully trying to find the quote off and on for a while, but I'm pretty sure that it was in the buildup to the release of fm23 that miles or someone at SI talked about how they were trying to make first touches and passing weights a little more realistic and you could tell it was working because the ball would bobble around more in midfield and the engine wasn't full of everyone playing silky smooth tikitaka like peak barcelona.
All of this to say brother, I feel your pain so much. I had a narrow diamond that I just ADORED, and it completely shredded everyone, and it looked so pretty. I'm pretty sure it was also fm22. I remember reading that preview and getting a sinking feeling that the days of lovely dangerous possession were over.
So now we all play 424 gegenpress and it's still fun, but...i dunno, man. I still think about that diamond.
detroitrex said: so, I've been unsuccessfully trying to find the quote off and on for a while, but I'm pretty sure that it was in the buildup to the release of fm23 that miles or someone at SI talked about how they were trying to make first touches and passing weights a little more realistic and you could tell it was working because the ball would bobble around more in midfield and the engine wasn't full of everyone playing silky smooth tikitaka like peak barcelona. Expand
Yeah, that would explain it. I can understand the rationale behind that decision, but what it seemed to end up doing is turning an already limited meta (gegenpress has always been the go-to for years now) into a pretty much one-dimensional meta.
detroitrex said: I remember reading that preview and getting a sinking feeling that the days of lovely dangerous possession were over. Expand
that's the thing that bothers me right now, I don't want a game-breaking possession tactic, but currently it seems like the game is making me sacrifice possession for xG.
lagoalaguna said: Yeah, that would explain it. I can understand the rationale behind that decision, but what it seemed to end up doing is turning an already limited meta (gegenpress has always been the go-to for years now) into a pretty much one-dimensional meta.
that's the thing that bothers me right now, I don't want a game-breaking possession tactic, but currently it seems like the game is making me sacrifice possession for xG. Expand
I was doing the video for the Pep's Tactic and i just went to "adaption" to " more possession" ; you can understand your self what is gonna happen.
It's like you sacrifice something to gain some % on possession.
But keep in mind that, there is possession and possession. Like Mourinho's possession is just defenders passing the balls eachother w/o any porpuse. Not even to open any space.
I was doing the video for the Pep's Tactic and i just went to "adaption" to " more possession" ; you can understand your self what is gonna happen.
It's like you sacrifice something to gain some % on possession.
But keep in mind that, there is possession and possession. Like Mourinho's possession is just defenders passing the balls eachother w/o any porpuse. Not even to open any space. Expand
The results on that screenshot are very interesting as it's almost a direct correlation between having more possession and less GD. The game does not want possession football
Steelwood said: The results on that screenshot are very interesting as it's almost a direct correlation between having more possession and less GD. The game does not want possession football Expand
You can actually go higher but idk yet, will make it maybe on part 2
I've just started my third season with Bury. In the first season we won the North West Counties League Premier Division (level 9) with an average possession of 58%. In the second season we won Northern Premier League Division One West (level 8) with 62% possession. I used the following tactic with no PIs:
Following my previous post in my third season we've just won Northern Premier League Premier Division (level 7) using the same tactic and achieved 63% possession.
DexterHovis said: Following my previous post in my third season we've just won Northern Premier League Premier Division (level 7) using the same tactic and achieved 63% possession. Expand
Hey Dexter! I'm curious, how does your AMC perform in such a tactic? Is he mainly another goal-scoring threat, or is he actively creating chances and assists?
Muja said: Hey Dexter! I'm curious, how does your AMC perform in such a tactic? Is he mainly another goal-scoring threat, or is he actively creating chances and assists? Expand
I've just won the Vanarama National League using the same tactic buy my possession dropped to 58%. I used two AMCs throughout the season and between the two of them in both league and cup matches they scored 19 goals and made 16 assists.
My 2 cents: I tried the basic version of the tactic posted by Delicious and it worked great for me. I found that for my team, the following tweaks significantly improved results:
- Drop mentality to Balanced - Use a DLF-Attack in the ST role ("comes deep to get ball" PI also seems to work well here and allow the ST to both run the channels and link up play better) - Set the Libero to Defensive
With this tweak the offensive output droped a little, but the overall goal difference and defensive performance were much better.
The question is easy. Is there any successful possession style tactic?
In my opinion, it is very difficult, to get at least 60-65% possession per game. With the OP tactics from fm-arena, I had games against the 18th and had 30-35% possession.
Is there any good tactic? I try to adapt (in game tactic) of Arsenal or Manchester City, but it does not work. In attachment, you see 2 examples.
Furthermore, if I choose "much shorter" passing, is that like time-wasting?
ocarty said: The question is easy. Is there any successful possession style tactic?
In my opinion, it is very difficult, to get at least 60-65% possession per game. With the OP tactics from fm-arena, I had games against the 18th and had 30-35% possession.
Is there any good tactic? I try to adapt (in game tactic) of Arsenal or Manchester City, but it does not work. In attachment, you see 2 examples.
Furthermore, if I choose "much shorter" passing, is that like time-wasting?
It's not like there is no "good" possession tactic, you are just looking on the wrong side of the game.
If you want a 60 rate possession tactic ain't happening on FM, doesn't mean you can't achieve good results with it.
Every TI/PI have pro and cons.
Example if you go play out of defence you will most likely get minus results, but in some shape is working okay.
Dribble less is literally a malus in the engine, work in the ball as well.
And if your players do any kind of mistake, it's gonna be hard to score goals for you.
This is the very reason why defensive builds are not working as well..
And the ultimate master piece of the engine is you don't really need anything of those to achieve "possession", you need just physical dominat players everywhere. You can do a random vacation with any tactic here with city and you will achieve around 50-55% avg possession.
Now, the question is, do you care if you don't win? You want just possession?
- Enjoy your style
- Enjoy the Meta
Here an example of Guardiola build, that i am working on :
I just joined Valencia there were 20th super disaster season and i put on that tactic and it turned it out like that for now :
I think if you got that much possession consistently you would win every game by 5+ goals. We can’t really know if it’s a design decision or just a consequence of how other things are tuned in the match engine, but having the attributes to maintain possession also gives you the attributes to get xG. There are already a lot of complaints about losing despite xG heavily in favor of the player; imagine if SI added even more randomness so that teams could posses the ball more but still be frustrated by the defense.
Tiki taka possession based tactics that can easily achieve that kind of percentage are notorious for not really scoring goals. They pass the ball till they are dead and generate 1 xg per game or something silly low.
You can win with possession. I wouldn't choose to use a lower tempo but even having very short passes and high tempo can lead to 60% average possession over a season (despite not having many passes which is very odd)
I think it's more the fact that FM is trying to copy real-life in that possession football isn't the best way to overachieve (think Leicester, Luton, even Watford in the 80s)
What I find is that possession % is also heavily influenced by squad quality. So it's maybe not so much that high possession leads to good results but rather a good squad will win more games and have a decently high possession.
Yea, but point is you can't really replicate tiki-taka with potatos players, people simply won't understand it
Delicious said: Here an example of Guardiola build, that i am working on :
Please keep us updated on how this tactic progresses!
In FM22, I managed to have a pretty successful save (winning multiple champions league with Sporting CP) with a very slow tempo, possession style tactic, averaging more than 700 passes per game. It looked like this:
However, like others have said in the thread, in FM24 it seems to be impossible to be this successful with a possession style tactic, even with the best team in the world, it always seems like we can't create enough chances.
I loved the way this tactic played in the FM22 engine, and to be honest it kinda bums me out I can't have anything close to it on FM24.
lagoalaguna said: I loved the way this tactic played in the FM22 engine, and to be honest it kinda bums me out I can't have anything close to it on FM24.
so, I've been unsuccessfully trying to find the quote off and on for a while, but I'm pretty sure that it was in the buildup to the release of fm23 that miles or someone at SI talked about how they were trying to make first touches and passing weights a little more realistic and you could tell it was working because the ball would bobble around more in midfield and the engine wasn't full of everyone playing silky smooth tikitaka like peak barcelona.
All of this to say brother, I feel your pain so much. I had a narrow diamond that I just ADORED, and it completely shredded everyone, and it looked so pretty. I'm pretty sure it was also fm22. I remember reading that preview and getting a sinking feeling that the days of lovely dangerous possession were over.
So now we all play 424 gegenpress and it's still fun, but...i dunno, man. I still think about that diamond.
detroitrex said: so, I've been unsuccessfully trying to find the quote off and on for a while, but I'm pretty sure that it was in the buildup to the release of fm23 that miles or someone at SI talked about how they were trying to make first touches and passing weights a little more realistic and you could tell it was working because the ball would bobble around more in midfield and the engine wasn't full of everyone playing silky smooth tikitaka like peak barcelona.
Yeah, that would explain it. I can understand the rationale behind that decision, but what it seemed to end up doing is turning an already limited meta (gegenpress has always been the go-to for years now) into a pretty much one-dimensional meta.
detroitrex said: I remember reading that preview and getting a sinking feeling that the days of lovely dangerous possession were over.
that's the thing that bothers me right now, I don't want a game-breaking possession tactic, but currently it seems like the game is making me sacrifice possession for xG.
lagoalaguna said: Yeah, that would explain it. I can understand the rationale behind that decision, but what it seemed to end up doing is turning an already limited meta (gegenpress has always been the go-to for years now) into a pretty much one-dimensional meta.
that's the thing that bothers me right now, I don't want a game-breaking possession tactic, but currently it seems like the game is making me sacrifice possession for xG.
I was doing the video for the Pep's Tactic and i just went to "adaption" to " more possession" ; you can understand your self what is gonna happen.
It's like you sacrifice something to gain some % on possession.
But keep in mind that, there is possession and possession. Like Mourinho's possession is just defenders passing the balls eachother w/o any porpuse. Not even to open any space.
Delicious said:
I was doing the video for the Pep's Tactic and i just went to "adaption" to " more possession" ; you can understand your self what is gonna happen.
It's like you sacrifice something to gain some % on possession.
But keep in mind that, there is possession and possession. Like Mourinho's possession is just defenders passing the balls eachother w/o any porpuse. Not even to open any space.
The results on that screenshot are very interesting as it's almost a direct correlation between having more possession and less GD. The game does not want possession football
Steelwood said: The results on that screenshot are very interesting as it's almost a direct correlation between having more possession and less GD. The game does not want possession football
You can actually go higher but idk yet, will make it maybe on part 2
I've just started my third season with Bury. In the first season we won the North West Counties League Premier Division (level 9) with an average possession of 58%. In the second season we won Northern Premier League Division One West (level 8) with 62% possession. I used the following tactic with no PIs:
Here you can find my thoughts on the matter
I wish it worked too, tried a few times.
You can do it, but success is not as fast as some of the more "meta" tactics out there.
Following my previous post in my third season we've just won Northern Premier League Premier Division (level 7) using the same tactic and achieved 63% possession.
DexterHovis said: Following my previous post in my third season we've just won Northern Premier League Premier Division (level 7) using the same tactic and achieved 63% possession.
Hey Dexter!
I'm curious, how does your AMC perform in such a tactic?
Is he mainly another goal-scoring threat, or is he actively creating chances and assists?
Muja said: Hey Dexter!
I'm curious, how does your AMC perform in such a tactic?
Is he mainly another goal-scoring threat, or is he actively creating chances and assists?
I've just won the Vanarama National League using the same tactic buy my possession dropped to 58%. I used two AMCs throughout the season and between the two of them in both league and cup matches they scored 19 goals and made 16 assists.
My 2 cents: I tried the basic version of the tactic posted by Delicious and it worked great for me. I found that for my team, the following tweaks significantly improved results:
- Drop mentality to Balanced
- Use a DLF-Attack in the ST role ("comes deep to get ball" PI also seems to work well here and allow the ST to both run the channels and link up play better)
- Set the Libero to Defensive
With this tweak the offensive output droped a little, but the overall goal difference and defensive performance were much better.