Are we really testing new tactics or it's just the same tactic? Every tactic I see posted it's almost the same formation with similar if not the same points. For example, rank#1 from zaz has more than 30 tested variatons. At this point it's really worth keep wasting time on testing again and again the same formation? Also, we can say we found what is broken (no striker, 3 def atk, 5def def) so why not focus now on different formations or trying to get good points on striker formations? I love to test tactics and make random formations but man, this is starting to be so boring. Ofc it's my personal opinion and im not trying to sound rude. Thank you all for the time u dedicate to create and test tactics, gg
Chris said: Are we really testing new tactics or it's just the same tactic? Every tactic I see posted it's almost the same formation with similar if not the same points. For example, rank#1 from zaz has more than 30 tested variatons. At this point it's really worth keep wasting time on testing again and again the same formation? Also, we can say we found what is broken (no striker, 3 def atk, 5def def) so why not focus now on different formations or trying to get good points on striker formations? I love to test tactics and make random formations but man, this is starting to be so boring. Ofc it's my personal opinion and im not trying to sound rude. Thank you all for the time u dedicate to create and test tactics, gg Expand
Many people are trying different formations, you can see at least a dozen in the first page of the tactic testing log. You are just focusing on the tactics on the top of the table, which are similar because that is what works in this version. People trying to improve the meta will use others as inspiration, or try to tweak their tactics, but that does not stop others from trying what they want.
Would be great to have the preset tactics as "pre-tested defaults" with each new patch, without individual submissions.
That too would be an interesting evolution to observe, to have a way to measure how various formations have evolved between patches, and to perhaps spot consistently underperforming tactics.
ZaZ said: Many people are trying different formations, you can see at least a dozen in the first page of the tactic testing log. You are just focusing on the tactics on the top of the table, which are similar because that is what works in this version. People trying to improve the meta will use others as inspiration, or try to tweak their tactics, but that does not stop others from trying what they want. Expand
That was true in v2 but unfortunately not in v3. There are almost no 442, 4231, 433 tested in the latest ME. I think because of the dominance of strikerless 3atb formations people gave up. And now we have at least a partial fix for the defending it’s difficult to tell what impact it’s had on the more realistic formations.
MeanOnSunday said: That was true in v2 but unfortunately not in v3. There are almost no 442, 4231, 433 tested in the latest ME. I think because of the dominance of strikerless 3atb formations people gave up. And now we have at least a partial fix for the defending it’s difficult to tell what impact it’s had on the more realistic formations. Expand
There is no 442 4231 433 because they dont work - I see the same issue that because im trying to create tactics that no one did and when someone big do that (like zaz or gerrard) - then everybody tries change one thing and hope that it will boost score by a dozen. I understand maxing the tactic but 5-2-3 with ss is practiclly every day tested as if there was something new this time - its annoying. Also i feel like even on fm24 page ofc there was 4-2-4 absued but there were more unique tactics that worked. Also engine its not helping for example: tactics with strikers or unique roles .
I wouldn't say that people gave up. Remmember that a lot of shapes and tactics are retested almost immediately when new ME is introduced, so there is naturally less new "non meta" tactics tested after that. As far as I don't like this FMs meta I'm okay with dozens tweaks of the same tactic being tested. I'm myself still trying to make my beloved WMs work, but I'm not posting anything new since I keep getting similar results in my testing. Also I just found out that playing FM is actually fun for me again, and I'm conquering the world with my 75 points tactic - so I don't do as many tests as at the beginning. This is a reminder, that pretty much every 70+ pts tactic from here is actually really good and can get you great results. I needed that reminder, since I got absolutely fixed about maximizing everything and I had the feeling of missing out when not using a tactic from the top table spot. Sorry, I got a little distracted from the main point. The main point is that a lot of things got tested by now, and if there is no big discovery or ME change we will naturally see a lot less new things being tested. What would be the point of testing a ten versions of short pass low block 443 if by this point we all know that it is just not working. And from the other hand, it is not surprising that creators of the top tactics are testing this minor tweaks in order to squeeze one or two more points scored, since I know that if my tactic were near the top i would do exactly the same to be as close to perfection as I could.
With that being said, some day there will be a new world order, and strikers will be kings again! WE WILL PREVAIL
wjechal123 said: There is no 442 4231 433 because they dont work - I see the same issue that because im trying to create tactics that no one did and when someone big do that (like zaz or gerrard) - then everybody tries change one thing and hope that it will boost score by a dozen. I understand maxing the tactic but 5-2-3 with ss is practiclly every day tested as if there was something new this time - its annoying. Also i feel like even on fm24 page ofc there was 4-2-4 absued but there were more unique tactics that worked. Also engine its not helping for example: tactics with strikers or unique roles . Expand
People naturally give priority to test their best tactics, and that makes harder to test other things with the limited slots. However, there is a whole table for Plug and Play tactics with strikers, and another one for Hall of Fame in several unique formations. The issue is not the lack of different tactics, it is just that people want to play with strikers or two defenders while having the same performance as the most effective tactic.
ZaZ said: People naturally give priority to test their best tactics, and that makes harder to test other things with the limited slots. However, there is a whole table for Plug and Play tactics with strikers, and another one for Hall of Fame in several unique formations. The issue is not the lack of different tactics, it is just that people want to play with strikers or two defenders while having the same performance as the most effective tactic. Expand
I understand 100% that they want to max it out however in case of tactic like yours ZaZ - Autumn 2.11 or just 5-2-3 there is already 150+ versions of it and thats for me is starnge because i feel like its already drained to the every last change and i would be surprised if there will be something new with this tactic( until next engine change).
There are still thousands of configurations of roles, team and personal instructions that could be tested and you never know when something clicks. Plus even figuring out which instructions are interchangeable is valuable. It's how you determine what matters and what doesn't.
This behaviour is nothing new, happens every year. You have some who try to come up with something new or try with offbeat tactics and others who want to maximise what we already know is working. If you sort out by date tested you can see actually quite a lot of different formations being tested, they just never make it anywhere near the top spot in points.
wjechal123 said: I understand 100% that they want to max it out however in case of tactic like yours ZaZ - Autumn 2.11 or just 5-2-3 there is already 150+ versions of it and thats for me is starnge because i feel like its already drained to the every last change and i would be surprised if there will be something new with this tactic( until next engine change). Expand
The same can be said about those other formations. People have tried different formations over and over again, and they stop trying because they realize it does not perform well in this version. It is not like people abandoned strikers because they love AM or SS, they just tried strikers in every way possible, and they simply suck.
wjechal123 said: There is no 442 4231 433 because they dont work - I see the same issue that because im trying to create tactics that no one did and when someone big do that (like zaz or gerrard) - then everybody tries change one thing and hope that it will boost score by a dozen. I understand maxing the tactic but 5-2-3 with ss is practiclly every day tested as if there was something new this time - its annoying. Also i feel like even on fm24 page ofc there was 4-2-4 absued but there were more unique tactics that worked. Also engine its not helping for example: tactics with strikers or unique roles . Expand
I agree with you on everything but I am really trying to make work other tactics like 4231 or 433, I made two +76 433 and 4231 which, doing it alone while everyone is 5-2-3 SS perma, is an achievement.
Chris said: I agree with you on everything but I am really trying to make work other tactics like 4231 or 433, I made two +76 433 and 4231 which, doing it alone while everyone is 5-2-3 SS perma, is an achievement. Expand
What do you want to tell me with that? I did it in last patch, but now im focusing on 4231 with BBM and because of the limit 2 tactics I cant upload everything (had one 75 but cause of retests it went to 73). Also, every tactic you sent is strikerless in defense, much easier to get better results. I don't like strikerless in atk/def.
Chris said: What do you want to tell me with that? I did it in last patch, but now im focusing on 4231 with BBM and because of the limit 2 tactics I cant upload everything (had one 75 but cause of retests it went to 73). Also, every tactic you sent is strikerless in defense, much easier to get better results. I don't like strikerless in atk/def. Expand
Relax, I am not trying to antagonize or create drama, I am just saying there are other people creating tactics in that style. Probably half of the tactics submitted every day do not follow the strikerless formula, so it is unfair to say no one is trying different formations.
ZaZ said: Relax, I am not trying to antagonize or create drama, I am just saying there are other people creating tactics in that style. Probably half of the tactics submitted every day do not follow the strikerless formula, so it is unfair to say no one is trying different formations. Expand
Me neither. But the one you just linked are using strikerless formula (atk striker/def strikerless).
I’m glad to see a few more different formations getting tested since my previous post. I understand that a lot of people are focused on trying to create the absolute best tactic so they aren’t going to submit formations that won’t be competitive. That’s entirely their choice. My comment was really to the FMArena team to be aware of the situation and suggesting that they should automatically rerun a wider diversity of tactics. This helps us to know to what extent ME flaws are being addressed by SI and to support members who like to use tactics that are popular in real football.
Are we really testing new tactics or it's just the same tactic? Every tactic I see posted it's almost the same formation with similar if not the same points. For example, rank#1 from zaz has more than 30 tested variatons. At this point it's really worth keep wasting time on testing again and again the same formation? Also, we can say we found what is broken (no striker, 3 def atk, 5def def) so why not focus now on different formations or trying to get good points on striker formations? I love to test tactics and make random formations but man, this is starting to be so boring. Ofc it's my personal opinion and im not trying to sound rude. Thank you all for the time u dedicate to create and test tactics, gg
Chris said: Are we really testing new tactics or it's just the same tactic? Every tactic I see posted it's almost the same formation with similar if not the same points. For example, rank#1 from zaz has more than 30 tested variatons. At this point it's really worth keep wasting time on testing again and again the same formation? Also, we can say we found what is broken (no striker, 3 def atk, 5def def) so why not focus now on different formations or trying to get good points on striker formations? I love to test tactics and make random formations but man, this is starting to be so boring. Ofc it's my personal opinion and im not trying to sound rude. Thank you all for the time u dedicate to create and test tactics, gg
Many people are trying different formations, you can see at least a dozen in the first page of the tactic testing log. You are just focusing on the tactics on the top of the table, which are similar because that is what works in this version. People trying to improve the meta will use others as inspiration, or try to tweak their tactics, but that does not stop others from trying what they want.
Would be great to have the preset tactics as "pre-tested defaults" with each new patch, without individual submissions.
That too would be an interesting evolution to observe, to have a way to measure how various formations have evolved between patches, and to perhaps spot consistently underperforming tactics.
ZaZ said: Many people are trying different formations, you can see at least a dozen in the first page of the tactic testing log. You are just focusing on the tactics on the top of the table, which are similar because that is what works in this version. People trying to improve the meta will use others as inspiration, or try to tweak their tactics, but that does not stop others from trying what they want.
That was true in v2 but unfortunately not in v3. There are almost no 442, 4231, 433 tested in the latest ME. I think because of the dominance of strikerless 3atb formations people gave up. And now we have at least a partial fix for the defending it’s difficult to tell what impact it’s had on the more realistic formations.
MeanOnSunday said: That was true in v2 but unfortunately not in v3. There are almost no 442, 4231, 433 tested in the latest ME. I think because of the dominance of strikerless 3atb formations people gave up. And now we have at least a partial fix for the defending it’s difficult to tell what impact it’s had on the more realistic formations.
There is no 442 4231 433 because they dont work - I see the same issue that because im trying to create tactics that no one did and when someone big do that (like zaz or gerrard) - then everybody tries change one thing and hope that it will boost score by a dozen. I understand maxing the tactic but 5-2-3 with ss is practiclly every day tested as if there was something new this time - its annoying. Also i feel like even on fm24 page ofc there was 4-2-4 absued but there were more unique tactics that worked. Also engine its not helping for example: tactics with strikers or unique roles .
I wouldn't say that people gave up. Remmember that a lot of shapes and tactics are retested almost immediately when new ME is introduced, so there is naturally less new "non meta" tactics tested after that. As far as I don't like this FMs meta I'm okay with dozens tweaks of the same tactic being tested. I'm myself still trying to make my beloved WMs work, but I'm not posting anything new since I keep getting similar results in my testing. Also I just found out that playing FM is actually fun for me again, and I'm conquering the world with my 75 points tactic - so I don't do as many tests as at the beginning. This is a reminder, that pretty much every 70+ pts tactic from here is actually really good and can get you great results. I needed that reminder, since I got absolutely fixed about maximizing everything and I had the feeling of missing out when not using a tactic from the top table spot.
Sorry, I got a little distracted from the main point. The main point is that a lot of things got tested by now, and if there is no big discovery or ME change we will naturally see a lot less new things being tested. What would be the point of testing a ten versions of short pass low block 443 if by this point we all know that it is just not working. And from the other hand, it is not surprising that creators of the top tactics are testing this minor tweaks in order to squeeze one or two more points scored, since I know that if my tactic were near the top i would do exactly the same to be as close to perfection as I could.
With that being said, some day there will be a new world order, and strikers will be kings again! WE WILL PREVAIL
wjechal123 said: There is no 442 4231 433 because they dont work - I see the same issue that because im trying to create tactics that no one did and when someone big do that (like zaz or gerrard) - then everybody tries change one thing and hope that it will boost score by a dozen. I understand maxing the tactic but 5-2-3 with ss is practiclly every day tested as if there was something new this time - its annoying. Also i feel like even on fm24 page ofc there was 4-2-4 absued but there were more unique tactics that worked. Also engine its not helping for example: tactics with strikers or unique roles .
People naturally give priority to test their best tactics, and that makes harder to test other things with the limited slots. However, there is a whole table for Plug and Play tactics with strikers, and another one for Hall of Fame in several unique formations. The issue is not the lack of different tactics, it is just that people want to play with strikers or two defenders while having the same performance as the most effective tactic.
ZaZ said: People naturally give priority to test their best tactics, and that makes harder to test other things with the limited slots. However, there is a whole table for Plug and Play tactics with strikers, and another one for Hall of Fame in several unique formations. The issue is not the lack of different tactics, it is just that people want to play with strikers or two defenders while having the same performance as the most effective tactic.
I understand 100% that they want to max it out however in case of tactic like yours ZaZ - Autumn 2.11 or just 5-2-3 there is already 150+ versions of it and thats for me is starnge because i feel like its already drained to the every last change and i would be surprised if there will be something new with this tactic( until next engine change).
There are still thousands of configurations of roles, team and personal instructions that could be tested and you never know when something clicks. Plus even figuring out which instructions are interchangeable is valuable. It's how you determine what matters and what doesn't.
This behaviour is nothing new, happens every year. You have some who try to come up with something new or try with offbeat tactics and others who want to maximise what we already know is working. If you sort out by date tested you can see actually quite a lot of different formations being tested, they just never make it anywhere near the top spot in points.
wjechal123 said: I understand 100% that they want to max it out however in case of tactic like yours ZaZ - Autumn 2.11 or just 5-2-3 there is already 150+ versions of it and thats for me is starnge because i feel like its already drained to the every last change and i would be surprised if there will be something new with this tactic( until next engine change).
The same can be said about those other formations. People have tried different formations over and over again, and they stop trying because they realize it does not perform well in this version. It is not like people abandoned strikers because they love AM or SS, they just tried strikers in every way possible, and they simply suck.
wjechal123 said: There is no 442 4231 433 because they dont work - I see the same issue that because im trying to create tactics that no one did and when someone big do that (like zaz or gerrard) - then everybody tries change one thing and hope that it will boost score by a dozen. I understand maxing the tactic but 5-2-3 with ss is practiclly every day tested as if there was something new this time - its annoying. Also i feel like even on fm24 page ofc there was 4-2-4 absued but there were more unique tactics that worked. Also engine its not helping for example: tactics with strikers or unique roles .
I agree with you on everything but I am really trying to make work other tactics like 4231 or 433, I made two +76 433 and 4231 which, doing it alone while everyone is 5-2-3 SS perma, is an achievement.
Chris said: I agree with you on everything but I am really trying to make work other tactics like 4231 or 433, I made two +76 433 and 4231 which, doing it alone while everyone is 5-2-3 SS perma, is an achievement.
https://fm-arena.com/table/fm26-hall-of-fame/?pos_data=%7B_2_-_2_._3_-_2_._5_-_2_._6_-_2_._23_-_2_%7D&mirror=2&asym=2#options
ZaZ said: https://fm-arena.com/table/fm26-hall-of-fame/?pos_data=%7B_2_-_2_._3_-_2_._5_-_2_._6_-_2_._23_-_2_%7D&mirror=2&asym=2#options
What do you want to tell me with that? I did it in last patch, but now im focusing on 4231 with BBM and because of the limit 2 tactics I cant upload everything (had one 75 but cause of retests it went to 73). Also, every tactic you sent is strikerless in defense, much easier to get better results. I don't like strikerless in atk/def.
Chris said: What do you want to tell me with that? I did it in last patch, but now im focusing on 4231 with BBM and because of the limit 2 tactics I cant upload everything (had one 75 but cause of retests it went to 73). Also, every tactic you sent is strikerless in defense, much easier to get better results. I don't like strikerless in atk/def.
Relax, I am not trying to antagonize or create drama, I am just saying there are other people creating tactics in that style. Probably half of the tactics submitted every day do not follow the strikerless formula, so it is unfair to say no one is trying different formations.
ZaZ said: Relax, I am not trying to antagonize or create drama, I am just saying there are other people creating tactics in that style. Probably half of the tactics submitted every day do not follow the strikerless formula, so it is unfair to say no one is trying different formations.
Me neither. But the one you just linked are using strikerless formula (atk striker/def strikerless).
I’m glad to see a few more different formations getting tested since my previous post. I understand that a lot of people are focused on trying to create the absolute best tactic so they aren’t going to submit formations that won’t be competitive. That’s entirely their choice. My comment was really to the FMArena team to be aware of the situation and suggesting that they should automatically rerun a wider diversity of tactics. This helps us to know to what extent ME flaws are being addressed by SI and to support members who like to use tactics that are popular in real football.