ZaZ said: I'm pretty sure it's possible to have a good tactic with purple mentality. Cyan, for example, got 5.3 with a low intensity setting. I'm quite sure with a bit of tweaking, it could get to 5.5+. Expand
Yeah, if EOT actually doesn't impact performance, this is quite a lot less intense as well. I had no idea it makes SO much of a difference. Fingers crossed the test scores close with it, like yours with Cyan.
Sandro said: Actually, it can be measured and I've done such tests many times. The mentality makes no difference and the only what matters is the intensity. You can see it by yourself, just measure the conditions of your players before and after a match using tactics with different intensity/mentality values but only don't use "go on holiday" or "instant result" to play a match because in this case your assistant manager makes substitutions and the result won't be accurate. Expand
I just tested this, and I get marginally better results with positive mentality, I attached 2 tests where difference is obvious, I had closer calls though. I would say positive is ~5% better for conserving energy, as it does reduce the slider a little, although I'm not sure if that makes a lot of difference, as adding "Ease off Tackles" reduces the slider by a lot more, but also gives a max 5% increase. This all might just be RNG playing in, even though my league is similarly "equalized" like the FM-Arena testing league.
I have yet to fully test this, but I think position/role makes much more of a difference. In my tests, my F9 was always 200-300 condition more tired than the AF's. I'll give some averages as an example for my 3 attacking positions.
F9-Support + 2x IF-Attack = 6700 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and IF around 6400-6500.
F9-Support + 2x AF-Attack = 7400 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and AF around 7500-7600.
Positive
Very Attacking
EDIT: Conclusion is that some combinations are superior this year, at least from the perspective of Stamina, and because condition affects performance so much, I would say even overall, since strikers conserve Condition so much better than attacking wingers and wide positions in general suffer the most from stamina issues, followed closely by CM and DM/AM.
cptdoggo said: I just tested this, and I get marginally better results with positive mentality, I attached 2 tests where difference is obvious, I had closer calls though. I would say positive is ~5-10% better for conserving energy, as it does reduce the slider a little, although I'm not sure if that makes a lot of difference, as adding "Ease off Tackles" reduces the slider by a lot more, but also gives a max 5% increase. This all might just be RNG playing in, even though my league is similarly "equalized" like the FM-Arena testing league.
I have yet to fully test this, but I think position/role makes much more of a difference. In my tests, my F9 was always 200-300 condition more tired than the AF's. I'll give some averages as an example for my 3 attacking positions.
F9-Support + 2x IF-Attack = 6700 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and IF around 6400-6500.
F9-Support + 2x AF-Attack = 7400 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and AF around 7500-7600.
Positive
Very Attacking
EDIT: Conclusion is that some combinations are superior this year, at least from the perspective of Stamina, and because condition affects performance so much, I would say even overall, since strikers conserve Condition so much better than attacking wingers and wide positions in general suffer the most from stamina issues, followed closely by CM and DM/AM. Expand
sad to see EOT being so much worse. Still could tweak it I suppose by enabling it on positions where conditions dont matter to much ( BPD / AF ) and leaving it off on the CMA who usually go red first for me. Would leave it on for DM as well - at least it makes sense from a logical pov
So
BPD - AF - DM -> Hard tackling ( AF has the energy to do it but could be on normal as well - from logical pov it doesnt make sense to have AF on hard and CMA on ease off - the press would fail there then ) WB -> Normal CMA -> Ease off or normal ?
Belmorn said: sad to see EOT being so much worse. Still could tweak it I suppose by enabling it on positions where conditions dont matter to much ( BPD / AF ) and leaving it off on the CMA who usually go red first for me. Would leave it on for DM as well - at least it makes sense from a logical pov
So
BPD - AF - DM -> Hard tackling ( AF has the energy to do it but could be on normal as well - from logical pov it doesnt make sense to have AF on hard and CMA on ease off - the press would fail there then ) WB -> Normal CMA -> Ease off or normal ? Expand
I think it should stay on everyone except probably full backs. Full backs usually are the most booked with it enabled anyway and are the most energy-intensive position. I think "tackle harder" should be removed, but without "ease off". You can afford to then sub out 1 or both CMs (who I think offer the most benefit out of aggressive tackling) and the most tired full back.
EDIT: The tactic does get a pretty high average energy level at the end of matches to begin with, and usually with 3 subs you rarely finish the game with people under the yellow level, most likely out of the CMA and full backs.
ZaZ said: EOT probably works with Cyan because of low tempo. Expand
Yeah, seems like it. High tempo seems to suffer pretty hard from it. I still think you can get away with removing it from the Full Backs to save energy as they tend to get most reds and that probably negatively affects the results anyway, so by taking it away you lose some performance but gain some by them not getting red carded every 5 matches, if that makes sense.
First of all, I am quite surprised my Positive Tiki Taka ended up first, I'm sure it won't hold here for long but it's nice to see anyhow, also very pleased with the low number of goals conceded.
Tejash said: @cptdoggo Can you please advise if any OI's, set pieces, player or preferred foot instructions? Expand
I don't use anything in terms of OI and preffered foot, the set pieces are built in the tactic.
brainbox said: Nice tactic, do you change the mentality for away days? Expand
I don't, this started out as my away tactic actually. I used to change to very attacking when chasing a goal but I don't think that will work in this patch.
Zass said: The original Positive Tiki Taka seems very robust to different testing methodologies? Expand
I think it does that because it doesn't have any FM-specific quirks included in it. It's just a tactic I cooked up with Barca F9 Messi in mind. Also I think what the tactic lost in terms of effectiveness like the other better ones did, it gained a lot in the tweaks to the IF and such.
Really loving using this tactic, just don't think the forwards I've got are working. Do you think any other roles would work at striker rather than the False 9?
Bradjc94 said: Really loving using this tactic, just don't think the forwards I've got are working. Do you think any other roles would work at striker rather than the False 9? Expand
Forwards have been nerfed since the patch, 8 times out of ten when 1vs1 they will hit it wide or straight at the keeper.
Instructions are not followed as much as pre patch or fm21. I think we will find it hard to find a top tactic to crack all areas of the game on this version due to the scripted limitations of the M.E
I've told SI about this but they are scumbag cunts that censor particular criticism.
I am struggling this year with FM22 because when I am winning, the opposing teams seems to gain +20 to all attributes. Moreover, as you said, stamina drops so fast with attaccking and pressing mentality.
So, I would like to try your tactic. I am manager of Napoli, with Osimhen that is very good but not as F9..I will try to adapt him to the role. Lozano and Insigne could do a very good job as AF I hope.
Any hint for the defensive stats about 3 CC's? With 22.2 your suggestion is to use the base positive tiki taka version of your tactic? Thanks,
I am struggling this year with FM22 because when I am winning, the opposing teams seems to gain +20 to all attributes. Moreover, as you said, stamina drops so fast with attaccking and pressing mentality.
So, I would like to try your tactic. I am manager of Napoli, with Osimhen that is very good but not as F9..I will try to adapt him to the role. Lozano and Insigne could do a very good job as AF I hope.
Any hint for the defensive stats about 3 CC's? With 22.2 your suggestion is to use the base positive tiki taka version of your tactic? Thanks, Expand
Hey man, my suggestion is to use the base version as it clearly performs the best and AF was nerfed. People focus too much on that F9 position and the attributes suggested by the game. I used F9 purely because AM's work kinda bad this year and it's the closest thing you can get to a midfielder-striker kinda thing.
So, all in all:
- IF needs to be played by guys who you could play as an AF without much trouble, so pretty much strikers. You shouldn't use classic wingers on this role unless they have good composure and can score regularly. - F9 needs to be played by your most technical striker, keep the pacy guys for IF. If all your strikers are pacy, just put your most creative (passing, vision, mentals) as F9. This guy's job is to link up the IF cutting inside, not being the star of your goalscoring, even though he will end up scoring a lot himself. To give you an example of such a player, I think Lorenzo Insigne is the best option in your Napoli squad to fulfill this role, as he is a very creative, older player with pace that is not as good as it used to be, but amazing mentals and technique.
@cptdoggo was thinking about this one and you thought of / tested with complete forward - support instead of f9 ? It does things pretty similar except should be scoring more ?
Belmorn said: @cptdoggo was thinking about this one and you thought of / tested with complete forward - support instead of f9 ? It does things pretty similar except should be scoring more ? Expand
It's a good idea.
I'd suggest upload it for the testing and we'll see what is better F9 or CF
Belmorn said: @cptdoggo was thinking about this one and you thought of / tested with complete forward - support instead of f9 ? It does things pretty similar except should be scoring more ? Expand
Truthfully the F9 in this tactic was never meant to be played like an actual striker. Support CF, DLF, F9, PF these all could work, just dont use Poacher or AF
ZaZ said: I'm pretty sure it's possible to have a good tactic with purple mentality. Cyan, for example, got 5.3 with a low intensity setting. I'm quite sure with a bit of tweaking, it could get to 5.5+.
Yeah, if EOT actually doesn't impact performance, this is quite a lot less intense as well. I had no idea it makes SO much of a difference. Fingers crossed the test scores close with it, like yours with Cyan.
Sandro said: Actually, it can be measured and I've done such tests many times. The mentality makes no difference and the only what matters is the intensity. You can see it by yourself, just measure the conditions of your players before and after a match using tactics with different intensity/mentality values but only don't use "go on holiday" or "instant result" to play a match because in this case your assistant manager makes substitutions and the result won't be accurate.
I just tested this, and I get marginally better results with positive mentality, I attached 2 tests where difference is obvious, I had closer calls though. I would say positive is ~5% better for conserving energy, as it does reduce the slider a little, although I'm not sure if that makes a lot of difference, as adding "Ease off Tackles" reduces the slider by a lot more, but also gives a max 5% increase. This all might just be RNG playing in, even though my league is similarly "equalized" like the FM-Arena testing league.
I have yet to fully test this, but I think position/role makes much more of a difference. In my tests, my F9 was always 200-300 condition more tired than the AF's. I'll give some averages as an example for my 3 attacking positions.
F9-Support + 2x IF-Attack = 6700 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and IF around 6400-6500.
F9-Support + 2x AF-Attack = 7400 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and AF around 7500-7600.
Positive
Very Attacking
EDIT: Conclusion is that some combinations are superior this year, at least from the perspective of Stamina, and because condition affects performance so much, I would say even overall, since strikers conserve Condition so much better than attacking wingers and wide positions in general suffer the most from stamina issues, followed closely by CM and DM/AM.
cptdoggo said: I just tested this, and I get marginally better results with positive mentality, I attached 2 tests where difference is obvious, I had closer calls though. I would say positive is ~5-10% better for conserving energy, as it does reduce the slider a little, although I'm not sure if that makes a lot of difference, as adding "Ease off Tackles" reduces the slider by a lot more, but also gives a max 5% increase. This all might just be RNG playing in, even though my league is similarly "equalized" like the FM-Arena testing league.
I have yet to fully test this, but I think position/role makes much more of a difference. In my tests, my F9 was always 200-300 condition more tired than the AF's. I'll give some averages as an example for my 3 attacking positions.
F9-Support + 2x IF-Attack = 6700 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and IF around 6400-6500.
F9-Support + 2x AF-Attack = 7400 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and AF around 7500-7600.
Positive
Very Attacking
EDIT: Conclusion is that some combinations are superior this year, at least from the perspective of Stamina, and because condition affects performance so much, I would say even overall, since strikers conserve Condition so much better than attacking wingers and wide positions in general suffer the most from stamina issues, followed closely by CM and DM/AM.
That sounds very interesting!
A very good work here!
sad to see EOT being so much worse. Still could tweak it I suppose by enabling it on positions where conditions dont matter to much ( BPD / AF ) and leaving it off on the CMA who usually go red first for me. Would leave it on for DM as well - at least it makes sense from a logical pov
So
BPD - AF - DM -> Hard tackling ( AF has the energy to do it but could be on normal as well - from logical pov it doesnt make sense to have AF on hard and CMA on ease off - the press would fail there then )
WB -> Normal
CMA -> Ease off or normal ?
Belmorn said: sad to see EOT being so much worse. Still could tweak it I suppose by enabling it on positions where conditions dont matter to much ( BPD / AF ) and leaving it off on the CMA who usually go red first for me. Would leave it on for DM as well - at least it makes sense from a logical pov
So
BPD - AF - DM -> Hard tackling ( AF has the energy to do it but could be on normal as well - from logical pov it doesnt make sense to have AF on hard and CMA on ease off - the press would fail there then )
WB -> Normal
CMA -> Ease off or normal ?
I think it should stay on everyone except probably full backs. Full backs usually are the most booked with it enabled anyway and are the most energy-intensive position. I think "tackle harder" should be removed, but without "ease off". You can afford to then sub out 1 or both CMs (who I think offer the most benefit out of aggressive tackling) and the most tired full back.
EDIT: The tactic does get a pretty high average energy level at the end of matches to begin with, and usually with 3 subs you rarely finish the game with people under the yellow level, most likely out of the CMA and full backs.
EOT probably works with Cyan because of low tempo.
ZaZ said: EOT probably works with Cyan because of low tempo.
Yeah, seems like it. High tempo seems to suffer pretty hard from it. I still think you can get away with removing it from the Full Backs to save energy as they tend to get most reds and that probably negatively affects the results anyway, so by taking it away you lose some performance but gain some by them not getting red carded every 5 matches, if that makes sense.
FM 22.2
Positive Tiki Taka
Very good.
@cptdoggo Can you please advise if any OI's, set pieces, player or preferred foot instructions?
nice to see a positive tactic being good ( best atm ) instead of very attacking.
Means we actually have a plan B when behind
Nice tactic, do you change the mentality for away days?
Still very good.
The original Positive Tiki Taka seems very robust to different testing methodologies?
First of all, I am quite surprised my Positive Tiki Taka ended up first, I'm sure it won't hold here for long but it's nice to see anyhow, also very pleased with the low number of goals conceded.
Tejash said: @cptdoggo Can you please advise if any OI's, set pieces, player or preferred foot instructions?
I don't use anything in terms of OI and preffered foot, the set pieces are built in the tactic.
brainbox said: Nice tactic, do you change the mentality for away days?
I don't, this started out as my away tactic actually. I used to change to very attacking when chasing a goal but I don't think that will work in this patch.
Zass said: The original Positive Tiki Taka seems very robust to different testing methodologies?
I think it does that because it doesn't have any FM-specific quirks included in it. It's just a tactic I cooked up with Barca F9 Messi in mind. Also I think what the tactic lost in terms of effectiveness like the other better ones did, it gained a lot in the tweaks to the IF and such.
Really loving using this tactic, just don't think the forwards I've got are working. Do you think any other roles would work at striker rather than the False 9?
Bradjc94 said: Really loving using this tactic, just don't think the forwards I've got are working. Do you think any other roles would work at striker rather than the False 9?
Forwards have been nerfed since the patch, 8 times out of ten when 1vs1 they will hit it wide or straight at the keeper.
Instructions are not followed as much as pre patch or fm21. I think we will find it hard to find a top tactic to crack all areas of the game on this version due to the scripted limitations of the M.E
I've told SI about this but they are scumbag cunts that censor particular criticism.
Hi cptdoggo and thanks.
I am struggling this year with FM22 because when I am winning, the opposing teams seems to gain +20 to all attributes. Moreover, as you said, stamina drops so fast with attaccking and pressing mentality.
So, I would like to try your tactic.
I am manager of Napoli, with Osimhen that is very good but not as F9..I will try to adapt him to the role.
Lozano and Insigne could do a very good job as AF I hope.
Any hint for the defensive stats about 3 CC's?
With 22.2 your suggestion is to use the base positive tiki taka version of your tactic?
Thanks,
Skaffa said: Hi cptdoggo and thanks.
I am struggling this year with FM22 because when I am winning, the opposing teams seems to gain +20 to all attributes. Moreover, as you said, stamina drops so fast with attaccking and pressing mentality.
So, I would like to try your tactic.
I am manager of Napoli, with Osimhen that is very good but not as F9..I will try to adapt him to the role.
Lozano and Insigne could do a very good job as AF I hope.
Any hint for the defensive stats about 3 CC's?
With 22.2 your suggestion is to use the base positive tiki taka version of your tactic?
Thanks,
Hey man, my suggestion is to use the base version as it clearly performs the best and AF was nerfed. People focus too much on that F9 position and the attributes suggested by the game. I used F9 purely because AM's work kinda bad this year and it's the closest thing you can get to a midfielder-striker kinda thing.
So, all in all:
- IF needs to be played by guys who you could play as an AF without much trouble, so pretty much strikers. You shouldn't use classic wingers on this role unless they have good composure and can score regularly.
- F9 needs to be played by your most technical striker, keep the pacy guys for IF. If all your strikers are pacy, just put your most creative (passing, vision, mentals) as F9. This guy's job is to link up the IF cutting inside, not being the star of your goalscoring, even though he will end up scoring a lot himself. To give you an example of such a player, I think Lorenzo Insigne is the best option in your Napoli squad to fulfill this role, as he is a very creative, older player with pace that is not as good as it used to be, but amazing mentals and technique.
test in holiday mode with Norwich.
Super
@cptdoggo was thinking about this one and you thought of / tested with complete forward - support instead of f9 ? It does things pretty similar except should be scoring more ?
Belmorn said: @cptdoggo was thinking about this one and you thought of / tested with complete forward - support instead of f9 ? It does things pretty similar except should be scoring more ?
It's a good idea.
I'd suggest upload it for the testing and we'll see what is better F9 or CF
Can you post player instruction and team instruction ? I play with Xbox, Thanks 🙏
First game of the 23-24 season. Crazy game to add i missed 2 pens..... My biggest win this save.
Belmorn said: @cptdoggo was thinking about this one and you thought of / tested with complete forward - support instead of f9 ? It does things pretty similar except should be scoring more ?
Truthfully the F9 in this tactic was never meant to be played like an actual striker. Support CF, DLF, F9, PF these all could work, just dont use Poacher or AF
Scri said: Can you post player instruction and team instruction ? I play with Xbox, Thanks 🙏
https://imgur.com/a/qmSxKvH
Here you go bro
Liverpool
Positive Tiki Taka
Poacher said: Liverpool
Positive Tiki Taka
Is that 4-3-3 with F9?
Tsubasa said: Is that 4-3-3 with F9?
Yes.
ta2199 said: https://imgur.com/a/qmSxKvH
Here you go bro
Thank you, very kind