Bogeyman said: The AM might make a significant difference if a tactic has some confusing roles like Wide Midfielders and Attacking Midfielders because he pick players according with the most important attributes for a role.
For instance, here's how important attributes looks for Wide Midfielder and as you can see there's no Acceleration or Pace among them:
So if you test ZaZ - Blue DM with Arsenal and you use DWs then the assistant manager picks Smith Rowe
and if you use WMs then the assistant manager picks Odegaard who is much slower but in the AM's eyes his is better as WM than Smith Rowe
Expand
I understand your point, but as far as results go, it didn't change much when I consider the combined results of all clubs. If difference was that big, then WM would be the best, since it gets similar results while using worse players.
ZaZ said: I understand your point, but as far as results go, it didn't change much when I consider the combined results of all clubs. If difference was that big, then WM would be the best, since it gets similar results while using worse players. Expand
If you reduce some very important attributes such Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling only for few points then the scores drops like 50%.
Now image, if the assistant manager picks Milner when you test WMs and when you DWs he picks Salah, of course, it won't cause a 50% drop but still it would make a significant difference.
NINJAZURC said: ZaZ is a top tactic, but players are always tired, how can i solve this problem? Please help boys!! Expand
I'm afraid there's no magic bullet.
If you want to win then you have to work very hard which requires a lot of energy.
That's why you usually get reward for having a deep bench, doing rotating and using a less intensive tactic in times where it makes, for example, in friendly matches or not important matches or when you have a very solid lead during matches.
ZaZ said: Hey! It would help a lot if I could understand a single word there. Hopefully it will help others. Thanks for bringing it up, anyway!
P.S.: I would be grateful if anyone that understands chinese could translate it for us. Expand
I have gone to the site and done my best to interpret the Chinese into English. I am thinking we should have a go at doing a Genie Scout filter based on their results. First I will provide a summary of their results of attribute importance by position for ZaZ Blue. Then I will open a separate post with the converted text. There are quite few things that don't seem to convert easily. But here goes:
Mark said: I have gone to the site and done my best to interpret the Chinese into English. I am thinking we should have a go at doing a Genie Scout filter based on their results. First I will provide a summary of their results of attribute importance by position for ZaZ Blue. Then I will open a separate post with the converted text. There are quite few things that don't seem to convert easily. But here goes:
Expand
Thanks, Mark! Gonna check it and make the filter to add to first post. I will make sure to reference the authors.
I have updated the important attributes in first post. I also created a separated thread for it in the general section, which @Zippo coult kindly pin if possible.
ZaZ said: I have updated the important attributes in first post. I also created a separated thread for it in the general section, which @Zippo coult kindly pin if possible. Expand
If you ask my opinion then I would not blindly follow it.
For example, if look at the central defenders spreadsheet then you'll see that "Long Throws" and "Crossing" has more weight than "Heading" but we know that Central Defenders don't take throw-ins and don't do crosses but they take a lot of headers so I don't understand how "Long Throws" and "Crossing" can be more important than Heading for Central Defenders... that doesn't make sense at all
Zippo said: If you ask my opinion then I would not blindly follow it.
For example, if look at the central defenders spreadsheet then you'll see that "Long Throws" and "Crossing" has more weight than "Heading" but we know that Central Defenders don't take throw-ins and don't do crosses but they take a lot of headers so I don't understand how "Long Throws" and "Crossing" can be more important than Heading for Central Defenders... that doesn't make sense at all Expand
I understand your point, and that happens because they used machine learning to define the scores. It shouldn't be blindly followed, but it definitely has some use. Maybe it can be adjusted by common sense.
P.S.: I might make a poor man's version of that filter considering only green attributes (50+), which would lead to good players for cheaper cost.
Zippo said: If you ask my opinion then I would not blindly follow it.
For example, if look at the central defenders spreadsheet then you'll see that "Long Throws" and "Crossing" has more weight than "Heading" but we know that Central Defenders don't take throw-ins and don't do crosses but they take a lot of headers so I don't understand how "Long Throws" and "Crossing" can be more important than Heading for Central Defenders... that doesn't make sense at all Expand
@Zippo if you look at my spreadsheet conversion I don't think what you are saying is correct
Mark said: @Zippo if you look at my spreadsheet conversion I don't think what you are saying is correct Expand
You are actually right, I didn't notice numbers were different! I actually went to the chinese website and asked someone to translate, and they provided me that translation. I'll check which one is correct and update it.
P.S.: Meanwhile, I'll update it with @Mark's table, which seems to be correct. After checking properly, DC and WB had the same table, so it was probably an innocent mistake there.
ZaZ said: P.S.: Meanwhile, I'll update it with @Mark's table, which seems to be correct. After checking properly, DC and WB had the same table, so it was probably an innocent mistake there. Expand
HI, Thank you for your interest in our research results. It is necessary to make some supplementary explanations to the research results so as not to be misleading. Stamina, in our system, we keep the players full in every game, and all players play the entire game. In the actual game, for those substitute players who occasionally play, stamina should not be as important as the results indicate. In a dense schedule, the stamina of the key players may be more important than the research results. Of course, it is related to the team's rotation strategy. Strength and Aggression, in order to simplify the entire training process, we actually discarded the injury game. Higher aggression will make the players more likely to get injured. This negative factor is not included in our experiment. In addition, our research has found that strength has the effect of avoiding serious injuries to a certain extent, so the importance of strength should be higher than that on the table. Punching, in fact, this attribute shows some negative effects in our research, and the weight in the table should be a negative number. However, due to a bug in our system, there are some problems with the processing of negative attributes, so accurate weight values are not obtained. 0 is manually set. Leadership, since each player is in the best condition, the morale factor before the start of the game is not taken into account in the system. We found that leadership helps the team maintain better morale after the game, so the actual role of leadership should be greater than the table.
ykykyk05251 said: HI, Thank you for your interest in our research results. It is necessary to make some supplementary explanations to the research results so as not to be misleading. Stamina, in our system, we keep the players full in every game, and all players play the entire game. In the actual game, for those substitute players who occasionally play, stamina should not be as important as the results indicate. In a dense schedule, the stamina of the key players may be more important than the research results. Of course, it is related to the team's rotation strategy. Strength and Aggression, in order to simplify the entire training process, we actually discarded the injury game. Higher aggression will make the players more likely to get injured. This negative factor is not included in our experiment. In addition, our research has found that strength has the effect of avoiding serious injuries to a certain extent, so the importance of strength should be higher than that on the table. Punching, in fact, this attribute shows some negative effects in our research, and the weight in the table should be a negative number. However, due to a bug in our system, there are some problems with the processing of negative attributes, so accurate weight values are not obtained. 0 is manually set. Expand
Thanks for the explanation!
I believe the first point (setting condition to max before matches), should be a goal of any manager with proper rotation and resting after matches. It is achievable during most of the season except a couple of tight weeks, so it's not a big deal and I believe the conclusion about stamina still stands in real gameplay. About the second point (removing injuries), it can somehow be managed with a balanced squad. Removing injuries and setting condition to maximum are ways to simulate the human behaviour of rotating squad, because assistant manager is pretty bad at that.
Anyway, thanks for the hard work on the experiment! It gave us some nice input that will help lots of managers find the best players to overachieve in their games.
What is in Your opinion 4 most important atributes for each position? in very simple words without any exel spreadshets please. I followed You thread last year and search players with Your guide, Pace, Accelertion, Flair, Decisions As my clubs DNA. Would this attributes be as important as last year?
fm arena user said: What is in Your opinion 4 most important atributes for each position? in very simple words without any exel spreadshets please. I followed You thread last year and search players with Your guide, Pace, Accelertion, Flair, Decisions As my clubs DNA. Would this attributes be as important as last year? Expand
Pace, Acceleration, Stamina and Dribbling/Anticipation.
Bogeyman said: The AM might make a significant difference if a tactic has some confusing roles like Wide Midfielders and Attacking Midfielders because he pick players according with the most important attributes for a role.
For instance, here's how important attributes looks for Wide Midfielder and as you can see there's no Acceleration or Pace among them:
So if you test ZaZ - Blue DM with Arsenal and you use DWs then the assistant manager picks Smith Rowe
and if you use WMs then the assistant manager picks Odegaard who is much slower but in the AM's eyes his is better as WM than Smith Rowe
I understand your point, but as far as results go, it didn't change much when I consider the combined results of all clubs. If difference was that big, then WM would be the best, since it gets similar results while using worse players.
ZaZ said: I understand your point, but as far as results go, it didn't change much when I consider the combined results of all clubs. If difference was that big, then WM would be the best, since it gets similar results while using worse players.
I wouldn't be that sure... just look at the attributes testing - https://fm-arena.com/table/13-fm22-attributes-ratings/
If you reduce some very important attributes such Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling only for few points then the scores drops like 50%.
Now image, if the assistant manager picks Milner when you test WMs and when you DWs he picks Salah, of course, it won't cause a 50% drop but still it would make a significant difference.
ZaZ is a top tactic, but players are always tired, how can i solve this problem?
Please help boys!!
NINJAZURC said: ZaZ is a top tactic, but players are always tired, how can i solve this problem?
Please help boys!!
I'm afraid there's no magic bullet.
If you want to win then you have to work very hard which requires a lot of energy.
That's why you usually get reward for having a deep bench, doing rotating and using a less intensive tactic in times where it makes, for example, in friendly matches or not important matches or when you have a very solid lead during matches.
NINJAZURC said: ZaZ is a top tactic, but players are always tired, how can i solve this problem?
Please help boys!!
Read "Squad Management" in the first post. Also, use Light Blue when you have a comfortable lead.
ZaZ said: Read "Squad Management" in the first post. Also, use Light Blue when you have a comfortable lead.
Thanks mate!
Where i can find that Ligth Blue tactic? Thx. Cheers!
NINJAZURC said: Thanks mate!
Where i can find that Ligth Blue tactic? Thx. Cheers!
Top of first page.
ZaZ said: Top of first page.
Thx mate, you are a master! I love your work, keep going!!
NINJAZURC said: Thx mate, you are a master! I love your work, keep going!!
Thank you!
hey ZaZ, someone uses Artificial Intelligence to analyze the Important Attributes of your 'ZaZ-Blue DM'. Hope this might help.
source: https://www.playgm.cn/thread-943500-1-1.html
showmake said: hey ZaZ, someone uses Artificial Intelligence to analyze the Important Attributes of your 'ZaZ-Blue DM'. Hope this might help.
source: https://www.playgm.cn/thread-943500-1-1.html
showmake said: hey ZaZ, someone uses Artificial Intelligence to analyze the Important Attributes of your 'ZaZ-Blue DM'. Hope this might help.
source: https://www.playgm.cn/thread-943500-1-1.html
Hey! It would help a lot if I could understand a single word there. Hopefully it will help others. Thanks for bringing it up, anyway!
P.S.: I would be grateful if anyone that understands chinese could translate it for us.
showmake said: hey ZaZ, someone uses Artificial Intelligence to analyze the Important Attributes of your 'ZaZ-Blue DM'. Hope this might help.
source: https://www.playgm.cn/thread-943500-1-1.html
FM gamers just got serious. xD
ZaZ said: Hey! It would help a lot if I could understand a single word there. Hopefully it will help others. Thanks for bringing it up, anyway!
P.S.: I would be grateful if anyone that understands chinese could translate it for us.
Scroll down and you will see the english verison of it
ZaZ said: Hey! It would help a lot if I could understand a single word there. Hopefully it will help others. Thanks for bringing it up, anyway!
P.S.: I would be grateful if anyone that understands chinese could translate it for us.
I have gone to the site and done my best to interpret the Chinese into English. I am thinking we should have a go at doing a Genie Scout filter based on their results. First I will provide a summary of their results of attribute importance by position for ZaZ Blue. Then I will open a separate post with the converted text. There are quite few things that don't seem to convert easily. But here goes:
Mark said: I have gone to the site and done my best to interpret the Chinese into English. I am thinking we should have a go at doing a Genie Scout filter based on their results. First I will provide a summary of their results of attribute importance by position for ZaZ Blue. Then I will open a separate post with the converted text. There are quite few things that don't seem to convert easily. But here goes:
Thanks, Mark! Gonna check it and make the filter to add to first post. I will make sure to reference the authors.
yeah that excel sheet makes much more sense to me than fm rating test... but ofcourse we should test it more
I have updated the important attributes in first post. I also created a separated thread for it in the general section, which @Zippo coult kindly pin if possible.
ZaZ said: I have updated the important attributes in first post. I also created a separated thread for it in the general section, which @Zippo coult kindly pin if possible.
If you ask my opinion then I would not blindly follow it.
For example, if look at the central defenders spreadsheet then you'll see that "Long Throws" and "Crossing" has more weight than "Heading" but we know that Central Defenders don't take throw-ins and don't do crosses but they take a lot of headers so I don't understand how "Long Throws" and "Crossing" can be more important than Heading for Central Defenders... that doesn't make sense at all
Zippo said: If you ask my opinion then I would not blindly follow it.
For example, if look at the central defenders spreadsheet then you'll see that "Long Throws" and "Crossing" has more weight than "Heading" but we know that Central Defenders don't take throw-ins and don't do crosses but they take a lot of headers so I don't understand how "Long Throws" and "Crossing" can be more important than Heading for Central Defenders... that doesn't make sense at all
I understand your point, and that happens because they used machine learning to define the scores. It shouldn't be blindly followed, but it definitely has some use. Maybe it can be adjusted by common sense.
P.S.: I might make a poor man's version of that filter considering only green attributes (50+), which would lead to good players for cheaper cost.
Zippo said: If you ask my opinion then I would not blindly follow it.
For example, if look at the central defenders spreadsheet then you'll see that "Long Throws" and "Crossing" has more weight than "Heading" but we know that Central Defenders don't take throw-ins and don't do crosses but they take a lot of headers so I don't understand how "Long Throws" and "Crossing" can be more important than Heading for Central Defenders... that doesn't make sense at all
@Zippo if you look at my spreadsheet conversion I don't think what you are saying is correct
Yeah the english post on that website has incorrect numbers. If you translate the chinese post you get the numbers Mark posted.
Mark can you share the same in excel file.
Mark said: @Zippo if you look at my spreadsheet conversion I don't think what you are saying is correct
You are actually right, I didn't notice numbers were different! I actually went to the chinese website and asked someone to translate, and they provided me that translation. I'll check which one is correct and update it.
P.S.: Meanwhile, I'll update it with @Mark's table, which seems to be correct. After checking properly, DC and WB had the same table, so it was probably an innocent mistake there.
ZaZ said: P.S.: Meanwhile, I'll update it with @Mark's table, which seems to be correct. After checking properly, DC and WB had the same table, so it was probably an innocent mistake there.
is the file for download updated ?
BiTeL33T said: is the file for download updated ?
Just updated.
I made the correct version of the chinese format
Excel file
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1muBAU22TzHTO9_zdNYx7ubePAAUtgVQg/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=106197286223391117795&rtpof=true&sd=true
Edit: The 3rd stat from bottom of mental attributes (middle column) is Teamwork not Leadership. I have updated it in excel but images are not updated.
thegr8 said: I made the correct version of the chinese format
Excel file
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1muBAU22TzHTO9_zdNYx7ubePAAUtgVQg/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=106197286223391117795&rtpof=true&sd=true
Thanks for the tables! I took the freedom to put them all together into a single image.
HI,
Thank you for your interest in our research results.
It is necessary to make some supplementary explanations to the research results so as not to be misleading.
Stamina, in our system, we keep the players full in every game, and all players play the entire game. In the actual game, for those substitute players who occasionally play, stamina should not be as important as the results indicate. In a dense schedule, the stamina of the key players may be more important than the research results. Of course, it is related to the team's rotation strategy.
Strength and Aggression, in order to simplify the entire training process, we actually discarded the injury game. Higher aggression will make the players more likely to get injured. This negative factor is not included in our experiment. In addition, our research has found that strength has the effect of avoiding serious injuries to a certain extent, so the importance of strength should be higher than that on the table.
Punching, in fact, this attribute shows some negative effects in our research, and the weight in the table should be a negative number. However, due to a bug in our system, there are some problems with the processing of negative attributes, so accurate weight values are not obtained. 0 is manually set.
Leadership, since each player is in the best condition, the morale factor before the start of the game is not taken into account in the system. We found that leadership helps the team maintain better morale after the game, so the actual role of leadership should be greater than the table.
ykykyk05251 said: HI,
Thank you for your interest in our research results.
It is necessary to make some supplementary explanations to the research results so as not to be misleading.
Stamina, in our system, we keep the players full in every game, and all players play the entire game. In the actual game, for those substitute players who occasionally play, stamina should not be as important as the results indicate. In a dense schedule, the stamina of the key players may be more important than the research results. Of course, it is related to the team's rotation strategy.
Strength and Aggression, in order to simplify the entire training process, we actually discarded the injury game. Higher aggression will make the players more likely to get injured. This negative factor is not included in our experiment. In addition, our research has found that strength has the effect of avoiding serious injuries to a certain extent, so the importance of strength should be higher than that on the table.
Punching, in fact, this attribute shows some negative effects in our research, and the weight in the table should be a negative number. However, due to a bug in our system, there are some problems with the processing of negative attributes, so accurate weight values are not obtained. 0 is manually set.
Thanks for the explanation!
I believe the first point (setting condition to max before matches), should be a goal of any manager with proper rotation and resting after matches. It is achievable during most of the season except a couple of tight weeks, so it's not a big deal and I believe the conclusion about stamina still stands in real gameplay. About the second point (removing injuries), it can somehow be managed with a balanced squad. Removing injuries and setting condition to maximum are ways to simulate the human behaviour of rotating squad, because assistant manager is pretty bad at that.
Anyway, thanks for the hard work on the experiment! It gave us some nice input that will help lots of managers find the best players to overachieve in their games.
What is in Your opinion 4 most important atributes for each position? in very simple words without any exel spreadshets please. I followed You thread last year and search players with Your guide, Pace, Accelertion, Flair, Decisions As my clubs DNA. Would this attributes be as important as last year?
fm arena user said: What is in Your opinion 4 most important atributes for each position? in very simple words without any exel spreadshets please. I followed You thread last year and search players with Your guide, Pace, Accelertion, Flair, Decisions As my clubs DNA. Would this attributes be as important as last year?
Pace, Acceleration, Stamina and Dribbling/Anticipation.