@TommyToxic, if you're interested to know how the stats changed with the adjusted attributes for the Target Forward then you can download game saves at the end of the test - Adjusted Attributes
Alexander said: - All players in the FM-Arena testing league have their morale and conditions set and "frozen" at the highest possible level, it ensures that the morale and physical conditions don't change and stay the same throughout a testing process, also, injuries are being removed if they occur. These adjustments greatly reducing the random elements of the game. Expand
Can you tell me how to freeze morale and condition in editor/in-game editor? I can only see the option to maximize it, but not to freeze it. I can only see "freeze attributes".
Can you tell me how to freeze morale and condition in editor/in-game editor? I can only see the option to maximize it, but not to freeze it. I can only see "freeze attributes".
Please let me know, thanks. Expand
You have to get FMRTE, you cant do this in in game editor.
vitoco said: Hi White Europe, I have seen your name over the years in several FM forums. Overall until now, which tac is among the best in this version of FM? Expand
Hi, Vujevic tactics are good if You like to build your team and fall in to all that micromanagement, if You want something more plug and play then top delicious tactics, knap ot Zaz.
I ran three sims using 3 different tactics and each one had the exact same results. Is this beacue I don't have FMRTE, or is there another reason behind it?
I figured it out it was a silly error. I used the same tactic for all 5 squads. Edit 2: That wasn't it, I retired all managers except for Team A and Team A still had identical results with a brand new tactic. Do we need to wait for updated version of the file?
I have seen that a new section has been created exclusively for Testing League and I don't know if it would be more appropriate to create a new thread about this small case but I would like to ask the following about the testing league:
1. It says here that within the testing league no rotation happens for any team (including AI teams) however this seems to be something that is not the case and I wanted to ask if squad rotation of AI teams affects/increases the RNG? 2. Within matches the AI managers and assistant managers (of user controlled teams) do players subs but the 'Use of Subs' attribute is different for each of them individually. Does this play a role in the sub strategy and in the results and if so, does this also affect the RNG?
dzek said: 1. It says here that within the testing league no rotation happens for any team (including AI teams) however this seems to be something that is not the case and I wanted to ask if squad rotation of AI teams affects/increases the RNG? Expand Hi,
Yes, the AI managers rotate their teams but the alternative players for every position have the same attributes, morale and conditions as the main players, the alternative players are just copies of the main players so it can be considered as "no rotations happens"
dzek said: 2. Within matches the AI managers and assistant managers (of user controlled teams) do players subs but the 'Use of Subs' attribute is different for each of them individually. Does this play a role in the sub strategy and in the results and if so, does this also affect the RNG?
Thank you! Expand
Subs must happen and restricting them would have unpredictable consequences for the reliability of the results.
Zippo said: Subs must happen and restricting them would have unpredictable consequences for the reliability of the results. Expand The question for this case actually is if the “Use of Subs” attribute has an effect of when and/or if subs occur inside the game.
dzek said: The question for this case actually is if the “Use of Subs” attribute has an effect of when and/or if subs occur inside the game. Expand
Keep in mind that players will get tired during the game,even tho they are frozen on coditions/morale/etc. So if test team or IA team can't sub out it may affect the results.
Delicious said: Keep in mind that players will get tired during the game,even tho they are frozen on coditions/morale/etc. So if test team or IA team can't sub out it may affect the results.
I don't know if is in a positive or negative way. Expand My brother perhaps I did not explain my question well. Certainly not making in-match subs will have an impact and the test will not be as reliable. My point is that maybe the 'Use of Subs' attribute has something to do with when these subs are made and if they are made in general.
An example: - The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 1 may not make subs in-match or may make them quite late - for example in the 85th minute or later. - The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 20 may make subs very quickly and in every game.
This again would have an effect on the results as a more rested player in the game would have their ability at full capacity while those who are tired would be -3/-5 in every attribute due to fatigue.
dzek said: My brother perhaps I did not explain my question well. Certainly not making in-match subs will have an impact and the test will not be as reliable. My point is that maybe the 'Use of Subs' attribute has something to do with when these subs are made and if they are made in general.
An example: - The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 1 may not make subs in-match or may make them quite late - for example in the 85th minute. - The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 20 to make subs very quickly and in every game.
This again would have an effect on the results as a more rested player in the game would have their ability at full capacity while those who are tired would be -3/-5 in every attribute due to fatigue. Expand
Only the game devs know for sure how "Use of Subs" attribute works, we can only guess about it.
Anyway, regardless of its working mechanic, it would be the same for every tactic tested so every tactic tested is effected by it at the same degree and we're comparing tactics here.
dzek said: My brother perhaps I did not explain my question well. Certainly not making in-match subs will have an impact and the test will not be as reliable. My point is that maybe the 'Use of Subs' attribute has something to do with when these subs are made and if they are made in general.
An example: - The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 1 may not make subs in-match or may make them quite late - for example in the 85th minute. - The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 20 to make subs very quickly and in every game.
This again would have an effect on the results as a more rested player in the game would have their ability at full capacity while those who are tired would be -3/-5 in every attribute due to fatigue. Expand
i agree with that“use of subs value of the manager” will affect the game result but i think in the test league every tactic is fighting with the same 5 tactics&manager so maybe its fair？
Zippo said: Only the game devs know for sure how "Use of Subs" attribute works, we can only guess about it.
Anyway, regardless of its working mechanic, it would be the same for every tactic tested so every tactic tested is effected by it at the same degree and we're comparing tactics here. Expand Certainly all tactics are tested in the same environment, I didn't say otherwise and for sure only the game devs know about it but if we could test this attribute and see the results, and if there are indeed results, then I think that would reduce the RNG. My recommendation
hziz1 said: i agree with that“use of subs value of the manager” will affect the game result but i think in the test league every tactic is fighting with the same 5 tactics&manager so maybe its fair？ Expand In the testing league - AI managers - have different values on 'Use of Subs' attribute.
GSBall said: Hi can someone test the default tactics with no team instructions (e.g. 442, 424) to see how they compare? Expand Hi GSBall,
I have test them multiple times with and without instructions.
I'm not in front of my computer but I remember very well that in all my tests the “best” formations without any instructions were almost always 4-2-2-2, 4-2-4 and 4-4-2 with small differences.
I have test them multiple times with and without instructions.
I'm not in front of my computer but I remember very well that in all my tests the “best” formations without any instructions were almost always 4-2-2-2, 4-2-4 and 4-4-2 with small differences. Expand
I'd be very curious to understand the dynamic procedure you use to decide how many simulation runs to apply for each tactic. (Maybe this has already been explained in some post, in which case I'd greatly appreciate a link!)
Also, curious about what the up and down arrows regarding the number of points in the tactic testing exactly mean. Do they reflect a confidence interval (e.g., 95%?) for the mean points resulting from the tactic?
Delicious said: From the Screen the Height seem the same btw :P
I just made screenshot before adjusting the height
Here's a correct one:
@TommyToxic, if you're interested to know how the stats changed with the adjusted attributes for the Target Forward then you can download game saves at the end of the test - Adjusted Attributes
Zippo said: Hi Tommy,
We've re-tested your tactic with adjusted attributes for the Target Forward.
Adjusted Attributes - https://fm-arena.com/tactic/4647-442-dycheball-adjusted-attributes/
Default Attributes - https://fm-arena.com/thread/4482-442-dycheball/
Acceleration 15->13
Pace 15->13
Jumping Reach 9->15
Strength 11->16
Height 175cm->190cm
Default Attributes of Target Forward
Adjusted attributes of Target Forward
Thanks a lot for taking the time for this.
I have to say it's rather soul crushing to see that certain roles are just objectively better no matter the circumstances, but the numbers don't lie.
Hi Alexander,
Alexander said: - All players in the FM-Arena testing league have their morale and conditions set and "frozen" at the highest possible level, it ensures that the morale and physical conditions don't change and stay the same throughout a testing process, also, injuries are being removed if they occur. These adjustments greatly reducing the random elements of the game.
Can you tell me how to freeze morale and condition in editor/in-game editor? I can only see the option to maximize it, but not to freeze it. I can only see "freeze attributes".
Please let me know, thanks.
Vami said: Hi Alexander,
Can you tell me how to freeze morale and condition in editor/in-game editor? I can only see the option to maximize it, but not to freeze it. I can only see "freeze attributes".
Please let me know, thanks.
You have to get FMRTE, you cant do this in in game editor.
White Europe said: You have to get FMRTE, you cant do this in in game editor.
Hi White Europe, I have seen your name over the years in several FM forums. Overall until now, which tac is among the best in this version of FM?
vitoco said: Hi White Europe, I have seen your name over the years in several FM forums. Overall until now, which tac is among the best in this version of FM?
Hi, Vujevic tactics are good if You like to build your team and fall in to all that micromanagement, if You want something more plug and play then top delicious tactics, knap ot Zaz.
The game save file was not opened in the game. Gave an error. Can anyone upload a new game save?
I ran three sims using 3 different tactics and each one had the exact same results. Is this beacue I don't have FMRTE, or is there another reason behind it?
I figured it out it was a silly error. I used the same tactic for all 5 squads.
Edit 2: That wasn't it, I retired all managers except for Team A and Team A still had identical results with a brand new tactic. Do we need to wait for updated version of the file?
Hi @Zippo,
I have seen that a new section has been created exclusively for Testing League and I don't know if it would be more appropriate to create a new thread about this small case but I would like to ask the following about the testing league:
1. It says here that within the testing league no rotation happens for any team (including AI teams) however this seems to be something that is not the case and I wanted to ask if squad rotation of AI teams affects/increases the RNG?
2. Within matches the AI managers and assistant managers (of user controlled teams) do players subs but the 'Use of Subs' attribute is different for each of them individually. Does this play a role in the sub strategy and in the results and if so, does this also affect the RNG?
Thank you!
dzek said: 1. It says here that within the testing league no rotation happens for any team (including AI teams) however this seems to be something that is not the case and I wanted to ask if squad rotation of AI teams affects/increases the RNG?
Hi,
Yes, the AI managers rotate their teams but the alternative players for every position have the same attributes, morale and conditions as the main players, the alternative players are just copies of the main players so it can be considered as "no rotations happens"
dzek said: 2. Within matches the AI managers and assistant managers (of user controlled teams) do players subs but the 'Use of Subs' attribute is different for each of them individually. Does this play a role in the sub strategy and in the results and if so, does this also affect the RNG?
Thank you!
Subs must happen and restricting them would have unpredictable consequences for the reliability of the results.
Zippo said: Subs must happen and restricting them would have unpredictable consequences for the reliability of the results.
The question for this case actually is if the “Use of Subs” attribute has an effect of when and/or if subs occur inside the game.
dzek said: The question for this case actually is if the “Use of Subs” attribute has an effect of when and/or if subs occur inside the game.
Keep in mind that players will get tired during the game,even tho they are frozen on coditions/morale/etc. So if test team or IA team can't sub out it may affect the results.
I don't know if is in a positive or negative way.
Delicious said: Keep in mind that players will get tired during the game,even tho they are frozen on coditions/morale/etc. So if test team or IA team can't sub out it may affect the results.
I don't know if is in a positive or negative way.
My brother perhaps I did not explain my question well. Certainly not making in-match subs will have an impact and the test will not be as reliable. My point is that maybe the 'Use of Subs' attribute has something to do with when these subs are made and if they are made in general.
An example:
- The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 1 may not make subs in-match or may make them quite late - for example in the 85th minute or later.
- The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 20 may make subs very quickly and in every game.
This again would have an effect on the results as a more rested player in the game would have their ability at full capacity while those who are tired would be -3/-5 in every attribute due to fatigue.
dzek said: My brother perhaps I did not explain my question well. Certainly not making in-match subs will have an impact and the test will not be as reliable. My point is that maybe the 'Use of Subs' attribute has something to do with when these subs are made and if they are made in general.
An example:
- The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 1 may not make subs in-match or may make them quite late - for example in the 85th minute.
- The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 20 to make subs very quickly and in every game.
This again would have an effect on the results as a more rested player in the game would have their ability at full capacity while those who are tired would be -3/-5 in every attribute due to fatigue.
Only the game devs know for sure how "Use of Subs" attribute works, we can only guess about it.
Anyway, regardless of its working mechanic, it would be the same for every tactic tested so every tactic tested is effected by it at the same degree and we're comparing tactics here.
dzek said: My brother perhaps I did not explain my question well. Certainly not making in-match subs will have an impact and the test will not be as reliable. My point is that maybe the 'Use of Subs' attribute has something to do with when these subs are made and if they are made in general.
An example:
- The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 1 may not make subs in-match or may make them quite late - for example in the 85th minute.
- The manager with 'Use of Subs' value 20 to make subs very quickly and in every game.
This again would have an effect on the results as a more rested player in the game would have their ability at full capacity while those who are tired would be -3/-5 in every attribute due to fatigue.
i agree with that“use of subs value of the manager” will affect the game result
but i think in the test league every tactic is fighting with the same 5 tactics&manager so maybe its fair？
Zippo said: Only the game devs know for sure how "Use of Subs" attribute works, we can only guess about it.
Anyway, regardless of its working mechanic, it would be the same for every tactic tested so every tactic tested is effected by it at the same degree and we're comparing tactics here.
Certainly all tactics are tested in the same environment, I didn't say otherwise and for sure only the game devs know about it but if we could test this attribute and see the results, and if there are indeed results, then I think that would reduce the RNG.
My recommendation
hziz1 said: i agree with that“use of subs value of the manager” will affect the game result
but i think in the test league every tactic is fighting with the same 5 tactics&manager so maybe its fair？
In the testing league - AI managers - have different values on 'Use of Subs' attribute.
Hi can someone test the default tactics with no team instructions (e.g. 442, 424) to see how they compare?
GSBall said: Hi can someone test the default tactics with no team instructions (e.g. 442, 424) to see how they compare?
Hi GSBall,
I have test them multiple times with and without instructions.
I'm not in front of my computer but I remember very well that in all my tests the “best” formations without any instructions were almost always 4-2-2-2, 4-2-4 and 4-4-2 with small differences.
dzek said: Hi GSBall,
I have test them multiple times with and without instructions.
I'm not in front of my computer but I remember very well that in all my tests the “best” formations without any instructions were almost always 4-2-2-2, 4-2-4 and 4-4-2 with small differences.
Thank you 🙂
Hi!
I'd be very curious to understand the dynamic procedure you use to decide how many simulation runs to apply for each tactic. (Maybe this has already been explained in some post, in which case I'd greatly appreciate a link!)
Also, curious about what the up and down arrows regarding the number of points in the tactic testing exactly mean. Do they reflect a confidence interval (e.g., 95%?) for the mean points resulting from the tactic?
Thank you!
Marco