After several tests I've done in the past, mostly on the 24.1 version, but also some on this one (24.2) here on FM-Arena I've noticed some things about the testing league and I want to share them with you.
AI managers have mostly the same attributes as each other and that means they play and approach matches in the same way. It also means that they use the same roles (each formation among themselves) and because of that the formations and the way one builds tactics in general and tests them here is generally quite predictable as to what the outcome will be.
Let me give you an example. All AI managers without exception use IWB(s) on DR/WBR and WB(a) on DL/WBL and after my own testing and that of others here and elsewhere we conclude that IWBs inside FM24 are weak at defending. So with that in mind I can simply put in 'Focus Play Down The Left' & 'Overlap Left' and I will get better results with almost all formations and roles that encourage these moves. There are other things we can take as examples as well, but I think you get the point here.
At this point I want to ask, what are we trying to create? A tactic that will get the most points within the testing league or the best possible tactic that will get the most points within regular careers?
The reason I ask this is because within the testing league there is no diversity in terms of the opponent and with that being said simply the best tactics here just beats AI teams within the testing league and we are not sure if it will pay off the same in a regular season/career.
What are your thoughts about this?
Thank you!
PS 1 I'm not writing this to confront anyone or to malign the practices of the staff here at FM-Arena. I certainly appreciate the work they do and in general for the space they have here and hosting us.
PS 2 Please anyone who wishes to discuss this topic please speak respectfully to all and comments should be constructive.
PS 3 I wrote the same text on one of my tactics and I'm really interested to hear your opinions.
After several tests I've done in the past, mostly on the 24.1 version, but also some on this one (24.2) here on FM-Arena I've noticed some things about the testing league and I want to share them with you.
AI managers have mostly the same attributes as each other and that means they play and approach matches in the same way. It also means that they use the same roles (each formation among themselves) and because of that the formations and the way one builds tactics in general and tests them here is generally quite predictable as to what the outcome will be.
Let me give you an example. All AI managers without exception use IWB(s) on DR/WBR and WB(a) on DL/WBL and after my own testing and that of others here and elsewhere we conclude that IWBs inside FM24 are weak at defending. So with that in mind I can simply put in 'Focus Play Down The Left' & 'Overlap Left' and I will get better results with almost all formations and roles that encourage these moves. There are other things we can take as examples as well, but I think you get the point here.
At this point I want to ask, what are we trying to create? A tactic that will get the most points within the testing league or the best possible tactic that will get the most points within regular careers?
The reason I ask this is because within the testing league there is no diversity in terms of the opponent and with that being said simply the best tactics here just beats AI teams within the testing league and we are not sure if it will pay off the same in a regular season/career.
What are your thoughts about this?
Thank you!
PS 1 I'm not writing this to confront anyone or to malign the practices of the staff here at FM-Arena. I certainly appreciate the work they do and in general for the space they have here and hosting us.
PS 2 Please anyone who wishes to discuss this topic please speak respectfully to all and comments should be constructive.
PS 3 I wrote the same text on one of my tactics and I'm really interested to hear your opinions. Expand
I'm surprised you didn't get any response to this thread.
I also noticed that in fm 24 and the second half of fm 23, tactics no longer worked perfectly, especially in online matches. For example, 4-2-3-1 is very difficult to win in online matches against real opponents.
What tactics do you think are strong but underrated in FM arena, special for playing online?
I'm surprised you didn't get any response to this thread.
I also noticed that in fm 24 and the second half of fm 23, tactics no longer worked perfectly, especially in online matches. For example, 4-2-3-1 is very difficult to win in online matches against real opponents.
What tactics do you think are strong but underrated in FM arena, special for playing online? Expand
In our online save at FM24, a guy playing Southampton with 4-2-3-1 hegemony won the league easily (2nd place was for another one using 4231hegemony with Leicester). Also another guy won Serie A as Genoa 3rd season with 424Deformation. So I think a lot of tactics from Hall of Fame works good at online games ^^
The most likely reason no one commented on this thread is because almost no one cares how a test league is made and what parameters it takes into account. They just see which tactic is first on the table, save it and play with it. I don't blame them and the truth is I don't give a damn about how anyone uses the forum.
Reason being, those of us who are a bit more involved with tactics etc would do well to deliver more quality results since that is the purpose of the website as well (at least that's what I know in my years here).
Something I haven't seen it reported anywhere is that the game developers at FM23 had introduced a new AI model and it radically changed how you play/build a tactic. That's why the tactics that had 'Take More Risks' + 'Dribble More' + 'Shoot Less Often' in almost all roles are a thing of the past. At least as of today as we speak.
Now as for the tactics you're asking me about I really don't know because I don't follow other people's tactics. Only the ones I did myself and the ones I made some tweaks to. My goal this year was to try a few things without taking too much into account the score meaning that I don't care about being first or last on the table. If you notice my own tactics, you will see that there is no consistency in the different versions for the above reason.
Try different tactics from those with a score of 55 and above and you might find one that makes a difference for you. My view is that this year the tactics that have an asymmetrical shape is a little bit better.
Germaniac said: Not sure if this should go here, but I think it'd be nice to have a decimal place on GD, GF, and GA on the table. Expand You have to ask @Zippo or @Droid for this request.
What do you think the test league can improve, which can replicate the normal league result more? I've heard you mention TFF methods, and it's true that his tactics get you results consistently in previous versions.
FaltaM said: What do you think the test league can improve, which can replicate the normal league result more? I've heard you mention TFF methods, and it's true that his tactics get you results consistently in previous versions. Expand Hello FaltaM,
I have given several ideas in various threads here at FM-Arena in the past. What I have said is not a rule that will make the test league better, but why are we all here? Aren't we here to test?
Here are some ideas I've said in the past: 1. Increase the matches per season. Now it's at 80 for each team. This generally won't make the league better, but it will reduce the runs by a lot. How can this be accomplished? a. Increase the teams from 10 in the league to 20. (10 AI vs 10 Human) b. Play matches every 3 days with no long gaps between matches.
2. Each AI team should have a preset formation (there are 10 in the game if I remember correctly) regardless of whether some are more efficient than others or whether they are used more or less in the game's leagues by the AI Managers. With this practice I believe we will have a more general overview of a tactic rather than 2-3 as is the case now.
3. Each human controlled team playing the entire season with ONLY one AI controlled team, not all of them. With this practice we can see which opposing formation our tactics are struggling with. And I'm mainly talking about the positions of each formation because I believe that positions come first and then player roles in terms of the effectiveness of a tactic.
4. Players' attributes to be reviewed. I give some suggestions: a. Look at all players for each position individually (e.g. all DR) from the game and average out an average for each attribute and from there get a general player ability for each position. b. Assign all players 10 in each attribute to be at an average level at all levels of ME.
5. I feel that the AI Managers attributes should not be modified so that there is a diversity in playing style for each AI team. The only thing that could be modified is to delete the Tactical Roles and set Formations accordingly as I have mentioned in point 2.
These are some of my suggestions. Maybe I'm completely wrong but I'm quoting for testing or discussion for anyone interested to find more and/or better ways to accomplish better Testing League.
Hi everyone,
After several tests I've done in the past, mostly on the 24.1 version, but also some on this one (24.2) here on FM-Arena I've noticed some things about the testing league and I want to share them with you.
AI managers have mostly the same attributes as each other and that means they play and approach matches in the same way. It also means that they use the same roles (each formation among themselves) and because of that the formations and the way one builds tactics in general and tests them here is generally quite predictable as to what the outcome will be.
Let me give you an example.
All AI managers without exception use IWB(s) on DR/WBR and WB(a) on DL/WBL and after my own testing and that of others here and elsewhere we conclude that IWBs inside FM24 are weak at defending. So with that in mind I can simply put in 'Focus Play Down The Left' & 'Overlap Left' and I will get better results with almost all formations and roles that encourage these moves. There are other things we can take as examples as well, but I think you get the point here.
At this point I want to ask, what are we trying to create? A tactic that will get the most points within the testing league or the best possible tactic that will get the most points within regular careers?
The reason I ask this is because within the testing league there is no diversity in terms of the opponent and with that being said simply the best tactics here just beats AI teams within the testing league and we are not sure if it will pay off the same in a regular season/career.
What are your thoughts about this?
Thank you!
PS 1 I'm not writing this to confront anyone or to malign the practices of the staff here at FM-Arena. I certainly appreciate the work they do and in general for the space they have here and hosting us.
PS 2 Please anyone who wishes to discuss this topic please speak respectfully to all and comments should be constructive.
PS 3 I wrote the same text on one of my tactics and I'm really interested to hear your opinions.
dzek said: Hi everyone,
After several tests I've done in the past, mostly on the 24.1 version, but also some on this one (24.2) here on FM-Arena I've noticed some things about the testing league and I want to share them with you.
AI managers have mostly the same attributes as each other and that means they play and approach matches in the same way. It also means that they use the same roles (each formation among themselves) and because of that the formations and the way one builds tactics in general and tests them here is generally quite predictable as to what the outcome will be.
Let me give you an example.
All AI managers without exception use IWB(s) on DR/WBR and WB(a) on DL/WBL and after my own testing and that of others here and elsewhere we conclude that IWBs inside FM24 are weak at defending. So with that in mind I can simply put in 'Focus Play Down The Left' & 'Overlap Left' and I will get better results with almost all formations and roles that encourage these moves. There are other things we can take as examples as well, but I think you get the point here.
At this point I want to ask, what are we trying to create? A tactic that will get the most points within the testing league or the best possible tactic that will get the most points within regular careers?
The reason I ask this is because within the testing league there is no diversity in terms of the opponent and with that being said simply the best tactics here just beats AI teams within the testing league and we are not sure if it will pay off the same in a regular season/career.
What are your thoughts about this?
Thank you!
PS 1 I'm not writing this to confront anyone or to malign the practices of the staff here at FM-Arena. I certainly appreciate the work they do and in general for the space they have here and hosting us.
PS 2 Please anyone who wishes to discuss this topic please speak respectfully to all and comments should be constructive.
PS 3 I wrote the same text on one of my tactics and I'm really interested to hear your opinions.
Hello, @dzek
I'm surprised you didn't get any response to this thread.
I also noticed that in fm 24 and the second half of fm 23, tactics no longer worked perfectly, especially in online matches. For example, 4-2-3-1 is very difficult to win in online matches against real opponents.
What tactics do you think are strong but underrated in FM arena, special for playing online?
Sane said: Hello, @dzek
I'm surprised you didn't get any response to this thread.
I also noticed that in fm 24 and the second half of fm 23, tactics no longer worked perfectly, especially in online matches. For example, 4-2-3-1 is very difficult to win in online matches against real opponents.
What tactics do you think are strong but underrated in FM arena, special for playing online?
In our online save at FM24, a guy playing Southampton with 4-2-3-1 hegemony won the league easily (2nd place was for another one using 4231hegemony with Leicester). Also another guy won Serie A as Genoa 3rd season with 424Deformation. So I think a lot of tactics from Hall of Fame works good at online games ^^
Hi @Sane,
The most likely reason no one commented on this thread is because almost no one cares how a test league is made and what parameters it takes into account. They just see which tactic is first on the table, save it and play with it. I don't blame them and the truth is I don't give a damn about how anyone uses the forum.
Reason being, those of us who are a bit more involved with tactics etc would do well to deliver more quality results since that is the purpose of the website as well (at least that's what I know in my years here).
Something I haven't seen it reported anywhere is that the game developers at FM23 had introduced a new AI model and it radically changed how you play/build a tactic. That's why the tactics that had 'Take More Risks' + 'Dribble More' + 'Shoot Less Often' in almost all roles are a thing of the past. At least as of today as we speak.
Now as for the tactics you're asking me about I really don't know because I don't follow other people's tactics. Only the ones I did myself and the ones I made some tweaks to. My goal this year was to try a few things without taking too much into account the score meaning that I don't care about being first or last on the table. If you notice my own tactics, you will see that there is no consistency in the different versions for the above reason.
Try different tactics from those with a score of 55 and above and you might find one that makes a difference for you. My view is that this year the tactics that have an asymmetrical shape is a little bit better.
Thank you!
Not sure if this should go here, but I think it'd be nice to have a decimal place on GD, GF, and GA on the table.
Germaniac said: Not sure if this should go here, but I think it'd be nice to have a decimal place on GD, GF, and GA on the table.
You have to ask @Zippo or @Droid for this request.
What do you think the test league can improve, which can replicate the normal league result more? I've heard you mention TFF methods, and it's true that his tactics get you results consistently in previous versions.
FaltaM said: What do you think the test league can improve, which can replicate the normal league result more? I've heard you mention TFF methods, and it's true that his tactics get you results consistently in previous versions.
Hello FaltaM,
I have given several ideas in various threads here at FM-Arena in the past. What I have said is not a rule that will make the test league better, but why are we all here? Aren't we here to test?
Here are some ideas I've said in the past:
1. Increase the matches per season. Now it's at 80 for each team. This generally won't make the league better, but it will reduce the runs by a lot. How can this be accomplished?
a. Increase the teams from 10 in the league to 20. (10 AI vs 10 Human)
b. Play matches every 3 days with no long gaps between matches.
2. Each AI team should have a preset formation (there are 10 in the game if I remember correctly) regardless of whether some are more efficient than others or whether they are used more or less in the game's leagues by the AI Managers. With this practice I believe we will have a more general overview of a tactic rather than 2-3 as is the case now.
3. Each human controlled team playing the entire season with ONLY one AI controlled team, not all of them. With this practice we can see which opposing formation our tactics are struggling with. And I'm mainly talking about the positions of each formation because I believe that positions come first and then player roles in terms of the effectiveness of a tactic.
4. Players' attributes to be reviewed. I give some suggestions:
a. Look at all players for each position individually (e.g. all DR) from the game and average out an average for each attribute and from there get a general player ability for each position.
b. Assign all players 10 in each attribute to be at an average level at all levels of ME.
5. I feel that the AI Managers attributes should not be modified so that there is a diversity in playing style for each AI team. The only thing that could be modified is to delete the Tactical Roles and set Formations accordingly as I have mentioned in point 2.
These are some of my suggestions. Maybe I'm completely wrong but I'm quoting for testing or discussion for anyone interested to find more and/or better ways to accomplish better Testing League.
Thanks for asking!