No doubts, "Focus Play Down The Flanks" are among the most "mysterious" Team Instructions in FM.
Unfortunately, it's quite hard to measure the impact of these TIs through out our regular tactic testing because even if you take 4,000 matches tests then the RNG still can be as high as 2.5 points which only allows spotting changes that make at least 2.5 points difference.
So we decided to shed light on "Focus Play Down The Flanks" TIs and test them for 32,000 matches, such amount of matches gives us a very small RNG which is no more than 0.5 points.
"Focus Play Down The Flanks" TIs
GENERIC BASE TACTIC: PIs: "Dribble More", "Tackle Harder"
Could you do another test with the TI "Focus Play Through The Middle"?
I know you don't want to do these kinds of tests for various reasons, but I think in this test, we might find some difference in scores with this particular instruction. Maybe not at all.
In a previous update of FM and your test league’s database I tested the two TIs (focus play middle / flanks) and showed some slight difference, in a small sample. I would like to see if there is indeed a difference or if it is due to the RNG.
I've really had enough experience with testing "TIs/PIs", I came to a conclusion that testing "TIs/PIs" is a stupid thing to do. Why that? Because at some point it became obvious that there's an interaction between "TIs/PIs", in other words, for example, "Be More Disciplined" TI might work "good" in 4-3-3 shape with many "Attacking" duties and "Attacking" mentality but it might work "poor" in 4-2-4 shape with many "Support" duties and "Balanced" mentality. So you have to test all possible combinations(shapes/TIs/PIs/) to find out what every tactical instructions do and that's is madness I'd say.
Also, it turned out the RNG in the testing is much higher than I thought it was. For example, even a test of 9,600 matches still has +/- 1.5 points RNG, which mean the same tactic after 9,600 matches still can produce 60 points, 61.5 points, 63 points results but many TIs/PIs do like 0.1 points difference and testing them would be just playing with the RNG.
I've really had enough experience with testing "TIs/PIs", I came to a conclusion that testing "TIs/PIs" is a stupid thing to do. Why that? Because at some point it became obvious that there's an interaction between "TIs/PIs", in other words, for example, "Be More Disciplined" TI might work "good" in 4-3-3 shape with many "Attacking" duties and "Attacking" mentality but it might work "poor" in 4-2-4 shape with many "Support" duties and "Balanced" mentality. So you have to test all possible combinations(shapes/TIs/PIs/) to find out what every tactical instructions do and that's is madness I'd say.
Also, as it turned out the RNG in the testing is much higher than I thought it was. For example, even a test of 9,600 matches still has +/- 1.5 points RNG, which mean the same tactic after 9,600 matches still can produce 60 points, 61.5 points, 63 points results but many TIs/PIs makes like 0.1 points difference and testing them would be just playing with the RNG.
I hope you got what I mean here. Expand I understand you and that's why I said you don't want to do these kinds of tests. I also understand that it is a bit "pointless" to test TIs / PIs in isolation because to see their exact effect they have to be tested in combination with others etc.
I just think that some TIs can show some signs of difference from their opposites without necessarily being affected by other combinations.
With that in mind, I think the "Focus Play" instructions are some of them. (which are not much affected by combinations of other instructions)
I want to mention the specific instructions that I think will always work best regardless of shapes, combinations, etc. and these instructions are connected with mentality instruction.
- Attacking Width (including PI) - Passing Directness (including PI) - Tempo - Time Wasting - Line of Engagement - Trigger Press (including PI)
An example to make it clearer what I am trying to say: If we test a tactic with all the Passing Directness options and find that Shorter Passing is the most efficient, then this will be 90% - 100% true for all cases (different shapes / TIs & PIs combinations / roles and duties). The same applies to the other instructions above.
Prysiu said: Why wouldn't you just send your tactics (or couple of them) with only this difference to be tested? Wouldn't it be the same? Expand Very good question...
Now it would be good to ask yourself why I don't do it on my own.
dzek said: I just think that some TIs can show some signs of difference from their opposites without necessarily being affected by other combinations. Expand
@dzek, even putting aside the fact that TIs and PIs interact with each other and that make a difference then still testing TIs and PIs would be just a waste of time because it isn't possible to "break" 1 points RNG(at least in our testing), even after 100,000 matches tested we still find there's "1" point RNG but many TIs/PIs make less than "1" point difference.
For example, for 400 matches tested the RNG can be as high as about "7" points and for 800 matches tested the RNG can be as high as "5" points and if you want to bring the RNG to the minimal number then you have to test no less than 50,000 matches and even after 50,000 there's still 1 point RNG but many TIs and PIs make less than 1 point difference.
Hey,
No doubts, "Focus Play Down The Flanks" are among the most "mysterious" Team Instructions in FM.
Unfortunately, it's quite hard to measure the impact of these TIs through out our regular tactic testing because even if you take 4,000 matches tests then the RNG still can be as high as 2.5 points which only allows spotting changes that make at least 2.5 points difference.
So we decided to shed light on "Focus Play Down The Flanks" TIs and test them for 32,000 matches, such amount of matches gives us a very small RNG which is no more than 0.5 points.
"Focus Play Down The Flanks" TIs
GENERIC BASE TACTIC:
PIs: "Dribble More", "Tackle Harder"
@Zippo please test and add “Focus Play Through The Middle” in the table too.
Hi @Zippo once again,
Could you do another test with the TI "Focus Play Through The Middle"?
I know you don't want to do these kinds of tests for various reasons, but I think in this test, we might find some difference in scores with this particular instruction. Maybe not at all.
In a previous update of FM and your test league’s database I tested the two TIs (focus play middle / flanks) and showed some slight difference, in a small sample. I would like to see if there is indeed a difference or if it is due to the RNG.
Here are my own tests that were done here at FM-Arena:
Focus Play Through The Middle - 58,5 pts
Focus Play Down Both Flanks - 57,9 pts
dzek said: Hi @Zippo once again,
Why that? Because at some point it became obvious that there's an interaction between "TIs/PIs", in other words, for example, "Be More Disciplined" TI might work "good" in 4-3-3 shape with many "Attacking" duties and "Attacking" mentality but it might work "poor" in 4-2-4 shape with many "Support" duties and "Balanced" mentality. So you have to test all possible combinations(shapes/TIs/PIs/) to find out what every tactical instructions do and that's is madness I'd say. 
Could you do another test with the TI "Focus Play Through The Middle"?
Hi, @dzek.
I've really had enough experience with testing "TIs/PIs", I came to a conclusion that testing "TIs/PIs" is a stupid thing to do.
Also, it turned out the RNG in the testing is much higher than I thought it was. For example, even a test of 9,600 matches still has +/- 1.5 points RNG, which mean the same tactic after 9,600 matches still can produce 60 points, 61.5 points, 63 points results but many TIs/PIs do like 0.1 points difference and testing them would be just playing with the RNG.
I hope you got what I mean here.
Zippo said: Hi, @dzek.
Why that? Because at some point it became obvious that there's an interaction between "TIs/PIs", in other words, for example, "Be More Disciplined" TI might work "good" in 4-3-3 shape with many "Attacking" duties and "Attacking" mentality but it might work "poor" in 4-2-4 shape with many "Support" duties and "Balanced" mentality. So you have to test all possible combinations(shapes/TIs/PIs/) to find out what every tactical instructions do and that's is madness I'd say. 
I've really had enough experience with testing "TIs/PIs", I came to a conclusion that testing "TIs/PIs" is a stupid thing to do.
Also, as it turned out the RNG in the testing is much higher than I thought it was. For example, even a test of 9,600 matches still has +/- 1.5 points RNG, which mean the same tactic after 9,600 matches still can produce 60 points, 61.5 points, 63 points results but many TIs/PIs makes like 0.1 points difference and testing them would be just playing with the RNG.
I hope you got what I mean here.
I understand you and that's why I said you don't want to do these kinds of tests. I also understand that it is a bit "pointless" to test TIs / PIs in isolation because to see their exact effect they have to be tested in combination with others etc.
I just think that some TIs can show some signs of difference from their opposites without necessarily being affected by other combinations.
With that in mind, I think the "Focus Play" instructions are some of them. (which are not much affected by combinations of other instructions)
Either way I respect your decision.
I want to mention the specific instructions that I think will always work best regardless of shapes, combinations, etc. and these instructions are connected with mentality instruction.
- Attacking Width (including PI)
- Passing Directness (including PI)
- Tempo
- Time Wasting
- Line of Engagement
- Trigger Press (including PI)
An example to make it clearer what I am trying to say:
If we test a tactic with all the Passing Directness options and find that Shorter Passing is the most efficient, then this will be 90% - 100% true for all cases (different shapes / TIs & PIs combinations / roles and duties). The same applies to the other instructions above.
Why wouldn't you just send your tactics (or couple of them) with only this difference to be tested? Wouldn't it be the same?
Prysiu said: Why wouldn't you just send your tactics (or couple of them) with only this difference to be tested? Wouldn't it be the same?
Very good question...
Now it would be good to ask yourself why I don't do it on my own.
dzek said: I just think that some TIs can show some signs of difference from their opposites without necessarily being affected by other combinations.
@dzek, even putting aside the fact that TIs and PIs interact with each other and that make a difference then still testing TIs and PIs would be just a waste of time because it isn't possible to "break" 1 points RNG(at least in our testing), even after 100,000 matches tested we still find there's "1" point RNG but many TIs/PIs make less than "1" point difference.
For example, for 400 matches tested the RNG can be as high as about "7" points and for 800 matches tested the RNG can be as high as "5" points and if you want to bring the RNG to the minimal number then you have to test no less than 50,000 matches and even after 50,000 there's still 1 point RNG but many TIs and PIs make less than 1 point difference.