Gunster said: Thanks! Yeah idk why but for me, this feels way more leaky in the back compared to both Phoenix 4.0 and AfterLife. I definitely lack pace to use it I think but it's less of an issue with the other tactics.
Scoring goals like a madman though but I've never given up so many goals before lol Expand
Blue 2.1 sacrifices a bit of defense in set pieces to get more counter attack opportunities. If you check the table, it's the tactic with the highest goal difference. Blue 2.2 should concede less and have an even higher goal difference (at least in my experiments).
Just like @Grimlock and @Lapidus said, the top tactics shouldn't have much difference between. The score system of this site was created exactly to measure when some tactic is better than another. If they have the same score, it means they perform almost the same and any difference might be just statistical noise. For reference, 1 point in a league of 20 teams means 0,026 points per match. That means the top three tactics would be separated by, on average, half a point per season. That's too little to say one is better or worse, as the same tactic can very well oscillate five or ten points under the same circunstances, because of RNG.
Do you often play DM or MC at IWB position ? I do find out they played there well, so I think for preseason people should try play them there. I recently found a thread about this, they said that, only the atttributes matter, position familarity can have a little effect but the role suitability is the least important
ta2199 said: Do you often play DM or MC at IWB position ? I do find out they played there well, so I think for preseason people should try play them there. I recently found a thread about this, they said that, only the atttributes matter, position familarity can have a little effect but the role suitability is the least important Expand
I do often retrain players in different positions. For example, my Leamigton team had a striker as DR during Vanarama League North, then I hired a MC to play as DR during Vanarama National League. Both ended the season with very good scores, performing very well.
It's not like position rating doesn't matter, it's just that speed attributes (pace, acceleration, agility, dribbling and balance) matter more. If you have two players with the same attributes, then the one with Natural will perform better than the one with Accomplished. However, if your Accomplished is faster, then it will perform better.
I usually make my team like this: - Two teams of 11 players + 5 reserves for each (total of 22 players and 10 reserves), and an extra goalkeeper. Total of 33 players (less during lower leagues, when money is limited). - If someone gets injuried, it gets one reserve from the other team. That ensures all players are used during the season.
For that to work, I need to have my reserves playing in two positions each. That means central defender, left side, right side, midfield and striker. The MC trains as DM and vice-versa, and ML/R trains as DL/R and vice-versa.
Why that's relevant? Because a ML training as DL will become natural in both positions, while an AML retrained to ML will forget it's new role when training as DL. That means it won't be able to keep Natural in both positions. Because of that, I only retrain weird positions to side or midfield in the main teams (it makes no difference for SS and DC). For the reserve teams, I prioritize those that can be natural in both positions (ML/R + DL/R or MC + DM), so I can play them without making distinction of position and give them a good amount of play time.
I'm sorry, but.. Blue 2.1 is still the best tactic for me, i haven't try 2.2 too much to be honest because i've been satisfied with 2.1 version. Just look at these screens in my RTG career. Coming from 3rd Russian League to Real Madrid in 8 seasons. And i won EVERYTHING for my 2 seasons in Madrid so it's 9 trophies in total.
Martin Odegaard is the best player by stats i've ever had i think, he is a Ballon D'or winner and the best player in Europe as well. I understand it's a Real Madrid, but they only won La Liga once in my save, Barca has been dominating, now poor boys haven't won any cup for last 2 years
kireby said: I'm sorry, but.. Blue 2.1 is still the best tactic for me, i haven't try 2.2 too much to be honest because i've been satisfied with 2.1 version. Just look at these screens in my RTG career. Coming from 3rd Russian League to Real Madrid in 8 seasons. And i won EVERYTHING for my 2 seasons in Madrid so it's 9 trophies in total.
Martin Odegaard is the best player by stats i've ever had i think, he is a Ballon D'or winner and the best player in Europe as well. I understand it's a Real Madrid, but they only won La Liga once in my save, Barca has been dominating, now poor boys haven't won any cup for last 2 years Expand
Does Odegaard play as DM in your team? I remember @ta2199 said that position was getting low scores on his save, but the fact that your DM is you best performer shows that it's probably not because of the tactic, but because of the player itself (or the partners). For references, I'll link his attributes below: https://fminside.net/players/53095137-martin-degaard
P.S.: About 2.2, it performs better for me, but the difference is just one or two points per season. The biggest difference is in goal difference, scoring ~5 more goal difference by the end of the season.
P.S.2: Right now I'm checking the best variant of Blue 2.2 with very attacking mentality, to sacrifice a bit of reliability and increase the chance to score. I'll check different passing directness, wideness and maybe be more expressive to see which one scores the most goals without becoming too vulnerable.
ZaZ said: Does Odegaard play as DM in your team? I remember @ta2199 said that position was getting low scores on his save, but the fact that your DM is you best performer shows that it's probably not because of the tactic, but because of the player itself (or the partners). For references, I'll link his attributes below: https://fminside.net/players/53095137-martin-degaard
P.S.: About 2.2, it performs better for me, but the difference is just one or two points per season. The biggest difference is in goal difference, scoring ~5 more goal difference by the end of the season.
P.S.2: Right now I'm checking the best variant of Blue 2.2 with very attacking mentality, to sacrifice a bit of reliability and increase the chance to score. I'll check different passing directness, wideness and maybe be more expressive to see which one scores the most goals without becoming too vulnerable. Expand
He was playing as CM at my first season (where he performed brilliant too), but on October we had difficults in our squad so i decided to put him as a DM and chose Zonzamas as CM. When i decided to turn it back i saw my team was playing better when he was DM so in total he spent nearly 7 months as DM.
DM mostly play in a position between DL and DR so he just provide some passing option for midfielders, I think he should have switching ball, dictate tempo, try long range passes, etc. Also I think CM and SS shouldnt have the come deep to get ball ppm. And you have to know if your players has full tactic familarity ( Position/Duty/Role part ). Some player doesn't need to train at that position to have full tactical familarity but some need to have individual training to get full tactical familarity. For example is Pogba playing as CM, It doessn't matter how many games I play him there, if I don't have individual training for him as CM(A), he wont get full tactical familarity.
ta2199 said: DM mostly play in a position between DL and DR so he just provide some passing option for midfielders, I think he should have switching ball, dictate tempo, try long range passes, etc. Also I think CM and SS shouldnt have the come deep to get ball ppm. And you have to know if your players has full tactic familarity ( Position/Duty/Role part ). Some player doesn't need to train at that position to have full tactical familarity but some need to have individual training to get full tactical familarity. For example is Pogba playing as CM, It doessn't matter how many games I play him there, if I don't have individual training for him as CM(A), he wont get full tactical familarity. Expand
I saw somewhere the only trait that makes a difference for attackers is Moves Into Channels. It would be nice to know for other positions too, like passing or defending traits, for players in the respective positions. When there are't more tactics to test, I would suggesting testing that for @Zippo;
Thank you for testing! I am still trying to improve the tactic, but I got stuck in 2.2 for now. I tried several adjustments, but none worked so far. I also tried some versions with very attacking mentality, but I couldn't get anything better than just setting 2.2 to very attacking. I hope I can find something good soon.
EPT93 said: How does it perform in terms of player energy during games? Struggling to find a tactic that doesn't kill my players. Expand
This is a high intensity tactic and it will kill your players if you don't manage their condition level. I would recommend a squad of at least 22 players, where the reserves are trained to supply for two players in the main team.
In my Lemington run (worst team in england), I started with 16 players, then increased to 22 in the second year, 28 in the third and 33 players in the fourth year, which is the size of squad I like to manage. I was the champion in every single year and even got the FA Trophy in the way, which means it's not impossible to manage it with a small squad.
Unfortunately, you won't find a tactic from the top 10 or 20 that is easy on player's condition. The "lightest" one is probably from @Egraam, which is very good and would allow you to win everything, but you will still need to manage players when you have more than one match in the same week.
@ZaZ I have been using the Blue2 tactic for about 2 months and I can say very clearly that it is the best tactic I have tried. I came out of the lower leagues with Hull and joined the champions league as the third in the Premier League in the first season. After the last match engine change, I started using Blue 2.2 as you suggested, but the results started to go bad and I can't fix what I do Is it a reality of the game to not be able to stop it when it starts to go bad sometimes and should I continue to use 2.2 in the same way? As a result, I strengthened my squad as required by the positions and great work has happened every season. However, after the last update, nothing is as before. Do you have any advice? So when things start to go wrong, is there anything you say "do this" in particular? I warn the players for poor performance, I hold a team meeting, etc. (I also started to use the Zaz training.I was having my assistant do it before. I wonder if this might have affected it too) I would be glad if you could give an idea.
Finally, I thank you for your support of FM players.
ZaZ said: This is a high intensity tactic and it will kill your players if you don't manage their condition level. I would recommend a squad of at least 22 players, where the reserves are trained to supply for two players in the main team.
In my Lemington run (worst team in england), I started with 16 players, then increased to 22 in the second year, 28 in the third and 33 players in the fourth year, which is the size of squad I like to manage. I was the champion in every single year and even got the FA Trophy in the way, which means it's not impossible to manage it with a small squad.
Unfortunately, you won't find a tactic from the top 10 or 20 that is easy on player's condition. The "lightest" one is probably from @Egraam, which is very good and would allow you to win everything, but you will still need to manage players when you have more than one match in the same week. Expand
Yeah I get that, is just rotation or is the training schedules? Dunno if its the tight marking thats killing the players. Pre update my adjusted Guido strikerless was unreal
Django said: @ZaZ I have been using the Blue2 tactic for about 2 months and I can say very clearly that it is the best tactic I have tried. I came out of the lower leagues with Hull and joined the champions league as the third in the Premier League in the first season. After the last match engine change, I started using Blue 2.2 as you suggested, but the results started to go bad and I can't fix what I do Is it a reality of the game to not be able to stop it when it starts to go bad sometimes and should I continue to use 2.2 in the same way? As a result, I strengthened my squad as required by the positions and great work has happened every season. However, after the last update, nothing is as before. Do you have any advice? So when things start to go wrong, is there anything you say "do this" in particular? I warn the players for poor performance, I hold a team meeting, etc. (I also started to use the Zaz training.I was having my assistant do it before. I wonder if this might have affected it too) I would be glad if you could give an idea.
Finally, I thank you for your support of FM players. Expand
You don't need to thank me. I also use the tactic, so in fact, you are the ones helping me by testing it. Anyway, Blue 2.2 is better than 2.0, and slightly better than 2.1. The difference in points is not so big, just 1 or 2 more points per season, but it's more solid and ends the season with a better goal difference. Bad streaks can and will happen with any tactic, because the engine is designed to make things run out of control. The less morale, the higher chance to lose, and when you lose, you lower the morale. I am also quite sure there is a hidden attribute for complacency that increases when you win matches in a row or when you face weaker teams, so you need to always keep your player with high morale and make sure they don't get complacent. My advice is like this:
Shouts - When not winning, encourage. When winning, praise after goals. When winning by a lot, ask to calm down to receive less yellow cards.
Team Talk - At start, try to motivate or relieve pressure on players. If no effect, tell defenders and midfielders that you have faith on them (this always works). - At half time, if not winning (or winning by one goal against weak team), tell them you are not happy with the performance. If winning, tell the team you are happy. - At full time, if not winning by more than one goal, tell them you are not happy. If winning by two goals, tell them it was a good result. If winning by three or more, tell them to not get complacent. You can be more harsh at home or against weak teams, and more kind away from home or against stronger teams. That means sometimes complimenting for a tie against a way stronger team, for example.
Out of match praising - Praise players with 9.0+ points in the last match. - Praise players with form 7.5+ in the last 5 matches. - Praise players with 9.0+ in training. - Warn players with 6.0- in training, last match or form in last 5 matches. The numbers are a bit more flexible, but I do that way so I don't need to praise everyone all the time. Also, players complain if you praise too often, specially for training.
Also, remember that training can help a lot with happiness. For example, you should always have two match practices and one team bonding per week, since those increase happiness by a lot.
Anyway, sometimes there isn't much what to do. Players have some hidden attributes that can make them perform badly in important matches, or under pressure, or get more red cards. If you see a player that is never in good form, get rid of him, even if he plays like Messi. It doesn't matter how good the player is if he makes you lose too often.
To finish this big list of things that can cause a team to play badly, there is also the problem of lack of confidence. In FM, it's not uncommon to have strikers five or ten matches in a row without scoring, shooting like toddlers. When both strikers get in a bad streak at once, all you can do is pray for them to score and end their goal drough.
P.S.: My worst sequence of matches with this tactic, playing with the weakest team, was five matches without a victory, which happened only once in five years. The normal is to get streaks of ten or more matches without losing.
EPT93 said: Yeah I get that, is just rotation or is the training schedules? Dunno if its the tight marking thats killing the players. Pre update my adjusted Guido strikerless was unreal Expand
Training schedules make a big difference, yes. If you put very hard trainings every day and don't rotate the team, you are bound to have lots of injuries and not recover players very well between matches. I usually have recovery sessions (green ones that reduce injury risk) at least once every two days. If you have a sport scientist and check the medical centre, you will see stats like match load, training load and fatigue, which affect the risk of injuries. Attributes like stamina and natural fitness also make your players less tired and recover faster, which reduce the number of injuries during the season. In the worst case, you can always right click a player and select Training -> Rest -> 1 or 2 days, to help players with bad stamina recover in time for some important match.
If your only worry is about condition, and not injuries, then I advise you to use Light Blue 2.2 when your are winning by 2+ goals of difference, since it reduces the load on the players. Phoenix also have a similar variant (even better for condition).
ZaZ said: I just added my training schedules to the first post, so it doesn't get lost in the topic. I also deleted the other one to not confuse people. Expand
Gpassosbh said: You just use one schedule during whole season? Expand
One for Pre-Season and another for In-Season (during matches). My schedule is focused in giving the most important attributes (speed) and increasing my chances of winning in the current season, by increasing happiness, reducing injuries and giving bonus for the next match. There are probably better schedules for gaining attributes, but this one makes my players grow well enough.
ZaZ said: One for Pre-Season and another for In-Season (during matches). My schedule is focused in giving the most important attributes (speed) and increasing my chances of winning in the current season, by increasing happiness, reducing injuries and giving bonus for the next match. There are probably better schedules for gaining attributes, but this one makes my players grow well enough. Expand
Using this, you think you can have good young player development?
Gpassosbh said: Using this, you think you can have good young player development? Expand
Yes, especially if they get some play time. My strategy is to have 33 players and rotate them like below. Team A: 1-11, with 23-28 reserves. Team B: 12-22, with 28-33. Player 28 is third goalkeeper, so he is reserve for both teams. To make sure each reserve can substitute two players, I make sure to train WBI as DW (and vice-versa) and DLP as CM (and vice-versa). If someone from any team gets injuried, I substitute with the reserve from same team. I also always make 3 substitutions in every match, being at least 2 by 45 min. That way, I make sure everyone gets play time, so everyone develops better.
If I ever need to change order so team A plays an important match, then I play one match with team C, which is both reserves combined. That is enough to make team A switch from wednesdays to saturdays.
P.S.: This strategy considers two matches a week, including friendlies.
ZaZ said: Yes, especially if they get some play time. My strategy is to have 33 players and rotate them like below. Team A: 1-11, with 23-28 reserves. Team B: 12-22, with 28-33. Player 28 is third goalkeeper, so he is reserve for both teams. To make sure each reserve can substitute two players, I make sure to train WBI as DW (and vice-versa) and DLP as CM (and vice-versa). If someone from any team gets injuried, I substitute with the reserve from same team. I also always make 3 substitutions in every match, being at least 2 by 45 min. That way, I make sure everyone gets play time, so everyone develops better.
If I ever need to change order so team A plays an important match, then I play one match with team C, which is both reserves combined. That is enough to make team A switch from wednesdays to saturdays.
P.S.: This strategy considers two matches a week, including friendlies. Expand
Hum.. Thanks for the tips. One last question.. When you have 1 game week or 2 games week, what changes you do in training? Can you share your trainings for one game week and two games week??
Gpassosbh said: Hum.. Thanks for the tips. One last question.. When you have 1 game week or 2 games week, what changes you do in training? Can you share your trainings for one game week and two games week?? Expand
If I have one match in the week, I propose a friendly so it becomes two matches. I also delegate friendly matches to the assistant manager so it goes faster, then it usually uses the players I set before the match starts.
Mr ZaZ - I am writing to both congratulate you for the wonderful formation and to thank you for your effort in fine-tuning it. I just used your v2.2 for Man Utd against a human controlled Liverpool team (which dominated our game with Fati, Haaland and Salah scoring like fun) in season 3 and beat them 3-2 in Community Shield - my first silverware! Would have won 3-1 had I not had Skriniar sent off in 86 mins for bad tackle. Our defence is tight [despite all the "take more risks"] and the counter attack is just impossible to deal with even though we have such low possession %. [Btw I am playing against a Liverpool team using 4-1-2-1-2 wide diamond and which scores on average 120 goals per season.]
I have two questions for you.
First, do you think it is advisable to move the CM(a) to AM position and deploy him as AP(s) - in between the two SS - and move DLP(s) to CM and deploy him as either DLP or BWM? The reason is that whilst the CM(a) generally does very well (I have Kessie and B Fernandes rotating) the DLP(s) does not do so well and often has very low rating (even though I already have Camanviga). I wonder if that has to do with the DLP(s) not being required to do a lot in recycling possession because he is assisted by the two IWB in that area, and I think in FM players are largely rated by how "busy" they are in their positions. But my concern is that using AP(s) may slow down the pace because AP tends to hold up the ball and look for chances to create openings, and this goes against the directness in your formation.
Second, do you think it is possible to adapt your tactic into a possession-based one by lowering the tempo and using low block? Whilst I love the way the team plays and the directness, I always feel I am taking a risk against another direct-play team, or those weaker teams which park the bus.
Once again, many thanks for the great work. Much appreciated.
Btw, my current starting eleven are as follows: (don't know how to screencap)
Demir -- Greenwood
Lemar --- Kessie --- B Fernandes
Camanviga
Telles - Koulibaly - Skriniar - Kounde
De Gea
Kessie + Camanviga in the center is just wonderful because of their high work rate and tackling, suit the pressing style very much. B Fernandes on the right wing can fully utilize his creativity (he has good crossing too). Kounde retrained as R-IWB and I think it is a masterstroke because he has excellent heading and passing and very decent pace, whereas Wan Bissaka is more defensive and less creative.
JTC said: Mr ZaZ - I am writing to both congratulate you for the wonderful formation and to thank you for your effort in fine-tuning it. I just used your v2.2 for Man Utd against a human controlled Liverpool team (which dominated our game with Fati, Haaland and Salah scoring like fun) in season 3 and beat them 3-2 in Community Shield - my first silverware! Would have won 3-1 had I not had Skriniar sent off in 86 mins for bad tackle. Our defence is tight [despite all the "take more risks"] and the counter attack is just impossible to deal with even though we have such low possession %. [Btw I am playing against a Liverpool team using 4-1-2-1-2 wide diamond and which scores on average 120 goals per season.]
I have two questions for you.
First, do you think it is advisable to move the CM(a) to AM position and deploy him as AP(s) - in between the two SS - and move DLP(s) to CM and deploy him as either DLP or BWM? The reason is that whilst the CM(a) generally does very well (I have Kessie and B Fernandes rotating) the DLP(s) does not do so well and often has very low rating (even though I already have Camanviga). I wonder if that has to do with the DLP(s) not being required to do a lot in recycling possession because he is assisted by the two IWB in that area, and I think in FM players are largely rated by how "busy" they are in their positions. But my concern is that using AP(s) may slow down the pace because AP tends to hold up the ball and look for chances to create openings, and this goes against the directness in your formation.
Second, do you think it is possible to adapt your tactic into a possession-based one by lowering the tempo and using low block? Whilst I love the way the team plays and the directness, I always feel I am taking a risk against another direct-play team, or those weaker teams which park the bus.
Once again, many thanks for the great work. Much appreciated.
Btw, my current starting eleven are as follows: (don't know how to screencap)
Demir -- Greenwood
Lemar --- Kessie --- B Fernandes
Camanviga
Telles - Koulibaly - Skriniar - Kounde
De Gea
Kessie + Camanviga in the center is just wonderful because of their high work rate and tackling, suit the pressing style very much. B Fernandes on the right wing can fully utilize his creativity (he has good crossing too). Kounde retrained as R-IWB and I think it is a masterstroke because he has excellent heading and passing and very decent pace, whereas Wan Bissaka is more defensive and less creative. Expand
For the first question, I already tried that and it performs worse. Some people are having DM with low scores while others have DMs with the highest scores in the team. Despite the score being high or low, they are very important to make the other players perform well. It may not seem like it, but they usually have the highest number of passes in the game, meaning they are the main players to decide where the attack movements flow.
About the second question, I already tried to lower tempo and passing directness, but the results are also worse. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it will have worse results.
For the players, I would advise you get the fastest players that you can. Pace and acceleration are the most important attributes, followed by agility and dribbling (not so important for central defenders). The rest is nice to have, but not as important. My current team has the lowest of all attributes in the league, but the highest of those four attributes, and will finish the season with almost 20 points more than the second place.
Gunster said: Thanks! Yeah idk why but for me, this feels way more leaky in the back compared to both Phoenix 4.0 and AfterLife. I definitely lack pace to use it I think but it's less of an issue with the other tactics.
Scoring goals like a madman though but I've never given up so many goals before lol
Blue 2.1 sacrifices a bit of defense in set pieces to get more counter attack opportunities. If you check the table, it's the tactic with the highest goal difference. Blue 2.2 should concede less and have an even higher goal difference (at least in my experiments).
Grimlock said: You just was unlucky because there's really no difference between this tactic and Phoenix 4.0 and both tactics will do great if you follow this table - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/
I agree, I'm getting very similar results with both tactics and if it feels that you concede more or score more with one them then it's just RNG
Just like @Grimlock and @Lapidus said, the top tactics shouldn't have much difference between. The score system of this site was created exactly to measure when some tactic is better than another. If they have the same score, it means they perform almost the same and any difference might be just statistical noise. For reference, 1 point in a league of 20 teams means 0,026 points per match. That means the top three tactics would be separated by, on average, half a point per season. That's too little to say one is better or worse, as the same tactic can very well oscillate five or ten points under the same circunstances, because of RNG.
Do you often play DM or MC at IWB position ? I do find out they played there well, so I think for preseason people should try play them there.
I recently found a thread about this, they said that, only the atttributes matter, position familarity can have a little effect but the role suitability is the least important
ta2199 said: Do you often play DM or MC at IWB position ? I do find out they played there well, so I think for preseason people should try play them there.
I recently found a thread about this, they said that, only the atttributes matter, position familarity can have a little effect but the role suitability is the least important
I do often retrain players in different positions. For example, my Leamigton team had a striker as DR during Vanarama League North, then I hired a MC to play as DR during Vanarama National League. Both ended the season with very good scores, performing very well.
It's not like position rating doesn't matter, it's just that speed attributes (pace, acceleration, agility, dribbling and balance) matter more. If you have two players with the same attributes, then the one with Natural will perform better than the one with Accomplished. However, if your Accomplished is faster, then it will perform better.
I usually make my team like this:
- Two teams of 11 players + 5 reserves for each (total of 22 players and 10 reserves), and an extra goalkeeper. Total of 33 players (less during lower leagues, when money is limited).
- If someone gets injuried, it gets one reserve from the other team. That ensures all players are used during the season.
For that to work, I need to have my reserves playing in two positions each. That means central defender, left side, right side, midfield and striker. The MC trains as DM and vice-versa, and ML/R trains as DL/R and vice-versa.
Why that's relevant? Because a ML training as DL will become natural in both positions, while an AML retrained to ML will forget it's new role when training as DL. That means it won't be able to keep Natural in both positions. Because of that, I only retrain weird positions to side or midfield in the main teams (it makes no difference for SS and DC). For the reserve teams, I prioritize those that can be natural in both positions (ML/R + DL/R or MC + DM), so I can play them without making distinction of position and give them a good amount of play time.
It’s going great 😁😄👌🏻 Bundesliga here we come 😆
skywalk3r83 said: It’s going great 😁😄👌🏻 Bundesliga here we come 😆
Show those bastards from Bayern Munich who is the new boss!
I'm sorry, but.. Blue 2.1 is still the best tactic for me, i haven't try 2.2 too much to be honest because i've been satisfied with 2.1 version. Just look at these screens in my RTG career. Coming from 3rd Russian League to Real Madrid in 8 seasons. And i won EVERYTHING for my 2 seasons in Madrid so it's 9 trophies in total.
Martin Odegaard is the best player by stats i've ever had i think, he is a Ballon D'or winner and the best player in Europe as well. I understand it's a Real Madrid, but they only won La Liga once in my save, Barca has been dominating, now poor boys haven't won any cup for last 2 years
kireby said: I'm sorry, but.. Blue 2.1 is still the best tactic for me, i haven't try 2.2 too much to be honest because i've been satisfied with 2.1 version. Just look at these screens in my RTG career. Coming from 3rd Russian League to Real Madrid in 8 seasons. And i won EVERYTHING for my 2 seasons in Madrid so it's 9 trophies in total.
Martin Odegaard is the best player by stats i've ever had i think, he is a Ballon D'or winner and the best player in Europe as well. I understand it's a Real Madrid, but they only won La Liga once in my save, Barca has been dominating, now poor boys haven't won any cup for last 2 years
Does Odegaard play as DM in your team? I remember @ta2199 said that position was getting low scores on his save, but the fact that your DM is you best performer shows that it's probably not because of the tactic, but because of the player itself (or the partners). For references, I'll link his attributes below:
https://fminside.net/players/53095137-martin-degaard
P.S.: About 2.2, it performs better for me, but the difference is just one or two points per season. The biggest difference is in goal difference, scoring ~5 more goal difference by the end of the season.
P.S.2: Right now I'm checking the best variant of Blue 2.2 with very attacking mentality, to sacrifice a bit of reliability and increase the chance to score. I'll check different passing directness, wideness and maybe be more expressive to see which one scores the most goals without becoming too vulnerable.
ZaZ said: Does Odegaard play as DM in your team? I remember @ta2199 said that position was getting low scores on his save, but the fact that your DM is you best performer shows that it's probably not because of the tactic, but because of the player itself (or the partners). For references, I'll link his attributes below:
https://fminside.net/players/53095137-martin-degaard
P.S.: About 2.2, it performs better for me, but the difference is just one or two points per season. The biggest difference is in goal difference, scoring ~5 more goal difference by the end of the season.
P.S.2: Right now I'm checking the best variant of Blue 2.2 with very attacking mentality, to sacrifice a bit of reliability and increase the chance to score. I'll check different passing directness, wideness and maybe be more expressive to see which one scores the most goals without becoming too vulnerable.
He was playing as CM at my first season (where he performed brilliant too), but on October we had difficults in our squad so i decided to put him as a DM and chose Zonzamas as CM. When i decided to turn it back i saw my team was playing better when he was DM so in total he spent nearly 7 months as DM.
I'll check 2.2. with very attacking mentality
DM mostly play in a position between DL and DR so he just provide some passing option for midfielders, I think he should have switching ball, dictate tempo, try long range passes, etc.
Also I think CM and SS shouldnt have the come deep to get ball ppm.
And you have to know if your players has full tactic familarity ( Position/Duty/Role part ). Some player doesn't need to train at that position to have full tactical familarity but some need to have individual training to get full tactical familarity.
For example is Pogba playing as CM, It doessn't matter how many games I play him there, if I don't have individual training for him as CM(A), he wont get full tactical familarity.
@Zippo test 2.2 please
ta2199 said: DM mostly play in a position between DL and DR so he just provide some passing option for midfielders, I think he should have switching ball, dictate tempo, try long range passes, etc.
Also I think CM and SS shouldnt have the come deep to get ball ppm.
And you have to know if your players has full tactic familarity ( Position/Duty/Role part ). Some player doesn't need to train at that position to have full tactical familarity but some need to have individual training to get full tactical familarity.
For example is Pogba playing as CM, It doessn't matter how many games I play him there, if I don't have individual training for him as CM(A), he wont get full tactical familarity.
I saw somewhere the only trait that makes a difference for attackers is Moves Into Channels. It would be nice to know for other positions too, like passing or defending traits, for players in the respective positions. When there are't more tactics to test, I would suggesting testing that for @Zippo;
I've tried ZaZ - Blue 2.1 with Chelsea and it did just amazing!
I can confirm Blue 2.1 works great.
I easily won La Liga with Atletico Madrid.
Thank you for testing! I am still trying to improve the tactic, but I got stuck in 2.2 for now. I tried several adjustments, but none worked so far. I also tried some versions with very attacking mentality, but I couldn't get anything better than just setting 2.2 to very attacking. I hope I can find something good soon.
How does it perform in terms of player energy during games? Struggling to find a tactic that doesn't kill my players.
EPT93 said: How does it perform in terms of player energy during games? Struggling to find a tactic that doesn't kill my players.
This is a high intensity tactic and it will kill your players if you don't manage their condition level. I would recommend a squad of at least 22 players, where the reserves are trained to supply for two players in the main team.
In my Lemington run (worst team in england), I started with 16 players, then increased to 22 in the second year, 28 in the third and 33 players in the fourth year, which is the size of squad I like to manage. I was the champion in every single year and even got the FA Trophy in the way, which means it's not impossible to manage it with a small squad.
Unfortunately, you won't find a tactic from the top 10 or 20 that is easy on player's condition. The "lightest" one is probably from @Egraam, which is very good and would allow you to win everything, but you will still need to manage players when you have more than one match in the same week.
@ZaZ I have been using the Blue2 tactic for about 2 months and I can say very clearly that it is the best tactic I have tried. I came out of the lower leagues with Hull and joined the champions league as the third in the Premier League in the first season. After the last match engine change, I started using Blue 2.2 as you suggested, but the results started to go bad and I can't fix what I do
Is it a reality of the game to not be able to stop it when it starts to go bad sometimes and should I continue to use 2.2 in the same way? As a result, I strengthened my squad as required by the positions and great work has happened every season. However, after the last update, nothing is as before. Do you have any advice? So when things start to go wrong, is there anything you say "do this" in particular? I warn the players for poor performance, I hold a team meeting, etc. (I also started to use the Zaz training.I was having my assistant do it before. I wonder if this might have affected it too) I would be glad if you could give an idea.
Finally, I thank you for your support of FM players.
ZaZ said: This is a high intensity tactic and it will kill your players if you don't manage their condition level. I would recommend a squad of at least 22 players, where the reserves are trained to supply for two players in the main team.
In my Lemington run (worst team in england), I started with 16 players, then increased to 22 in the second year, 28 in the third and 33 players in the fourth year, which is the size of squad I like to manage. I was the champion in every single year and even got the FA Trophy in the way, which means it's not impossible to manage it with a small squad.
Unfortunately, you won't find a tactic from the top 10 or 20 that is easy on player's condition. The "lightest" one is probably from @Egraam, which is very good and would allow you to win everything, but you will still need to manage players when you have more than one match in the same week.
Yeah I get that, is just rotation or is the training schedules? Dunno if its the tight marking thats killing the players. Pre update my adjusted Guido strikerless was unreal
Django said: @ZaZ I have been using the Blue2 tactic for about 2 months and I can say very clearly that it is the best tactic I have tried. I came out of the lower leagues with Hull and joined the champions league as the third in the Premier League in the first season. After the last match engine change, I started using Blue 2.2 as you suggested, but the results started to go bad and I can't fix what I do
Is it a reality of the game to not be able to stop it when it starts to go bad sometimes and should I continue to use 2.2 in the same way? As a result, I strengthened my squad as required by the positions and great work has happened every season. However, after the last update, nothing is as before. Do you have any advice? So when things start to go wrong, is there anything you say "do this" in particular? I warn the players for poor performance, I hold a team meeting, etc. (I also started to use the Zaz training.I was having my assistant do it before. I wonder if this might have affected it too) I would be glad if you could give an idea.
Finally, I thank you for your support of FM players.
You don't need to thank me. I also use the tactic, so in fact, you are the ones helping me by testing it. Anyway, Blue 2.2 is better than 2.0, and slightly better than 2.1. The difference in points is not so big, just 1 or 2 more points per season, but it's more solid and ends the season with a better goal difference. Bad streaks can and will happen with any tactic, because the engine is designed to make things run out of control. The less morale, the higher chance to lose, and when you lose, you lower the morale. I am also quite sure there is a hidden attribute for complacency that increases when you win matches in a row or when you face weaker teams, so you need to always keep your player with high morale and make sure they don't get complacent. My advice is like this:
Shouts
- When not winning, encourage. When winning, praise after goals. When winning by a lot, ask to calm down to receive less yellow cards.
Team Talk
- At start, try to motivate or relieve pressure on players. If no effect, tell defenders and midfielders that you have faith on them (this always works).
- At half time, if not winning (or winning by one goal against weak team), tell them you are not happy with the performance. If winning, tell the team you are happy.
- At full time, if not winning by more than one goal, tell them you are not happy. If winning by two goals, tell them it was a good result. If winning by three or more, tell them to not get complacent. You can be more harsh at home or against weak teams, and more kind away from home or against stronger teams. That means sometimes complimenting for a tie against a way stronger team, for example.
Out of match praising
- Praise players with 9.0+ points in the last match.
- Praise players with form 7.5+ in the last 5 matches.
- Praise players with 9.0+ in training.
- Warn players with 6.0- in training, last match or form in last 5 matches.
The numbers are a bit more flexible, but I do that way so I don't need to praise everyone all the time. Also, players complain if you praise too often, specially for training.
Also, remember that training can help a lot with happiness. For example, you should always have two match practices and one team bonding per week, since those increase happiness by a lot.
Anyway, sometimes there isn't much what to do. Players have some hidden attributes that can make them perform badly in important matches, or under pressure, or get more red cards. If you see a player that is never in good form, get rid of him, even if he plays like Messi. It doesn't matter how good the player is if he makes you lose too often.
To finish this big list of things that can cause a team to play badly, there is also the problem of lack of confidence. In FM, it's not uncommon to have strikers five or ten matches in a row without scoring, shooting like toddlers. When both strikers get in a bad streak at once, all you can do is pray for them to score and end their goal drough.
P.S.: My worst sequence of matches with this tactic, playing with the weakest team, was five matches without a victory, which happened only once in five years. The normal is to get streaks of ten or more matches without losing.
EPT93 said: Yeah I get that, is just rotation or is the training schedules? Dunno if its the tight marking thats killing the players. Pre update my adjusted Guido strikerless was unreal
Training schedules make a big difference, yes. If you put very hard trainings every day and don't rotate the team, you are bound to have lots of injuries and not recover players very well between matches. I usually have recovery sessions (green ones that reduce injury risk) at least once every two days. If you have a sport scientist and check the medical centre, you will see stats like match load, training load and fatigue, which affect the risk of injuries. Attributes like stamina and natural fitness also make your players less tired and recover faster, which reduce the number of injuries during the season. In the worst case, you can always right click a player and select Training -> Rest -> 1 or 2 days, to help players with bad stamina recover in time for some important match.
If your only worry is about condition, and not injuries, then I advise you to use Light Blue 2.2 when your are winning by 2+ goals of difference, since it reduces the load on the players. Phoenix also have a similar variant (even better for condition).
I just added my training schedules to the first post, so it doesn't get lost in the topic. I also deleted the other one to not confuse people.
ZaZ said: I just added my training schedules to the first post, so it doesn't get lost in the topic. I also deleted the other one to not confuse people.
You just use one schedule during whole season?
Gpassosbh said: You just use one schedule during whole season?
One for Pre-Season and another for In-Season (during matches). My schedule is focused in giving the most important attributes (speed) and increasing my chances of winning in the current season, by increasing happiness, reducing injuries and giving bonus for the next match. There are probably better schedules for gaining attributes, but this one makes my players grow well enough.
ZaZ said: One for Pre-Season and another for In-Season (during matches). My schedule is focused in giving the most important attributes (speed) and increasing my chances of winning in the current season, by increasing happiness, reducing injuries and giving bonus for the next match. There are probably better schedules for gaining attributes, but this one makes my players grow well enough.
Using this, you think you can have good young player development?
Gpassosbh said: Using this, you think you can have good young player development?
Yes, especially if they get some play time. My strategy is to have 33 players and rotate them like below.
Team A: 1-11, with 23-28 reserves.
Team B: 12-22, with 28-33.
Player 28 is third goalkeeper, so he is reserve for both teams. To make sure each reserve can substitute two players, I make sure to train WBI as DW (and vice-versa) and DLP as CM (and vice-versa). If someone from any team gets injuried, I substitute with the reserve from same team. I also always make 3 substitutions in every match, being at least 2 by 45 min. That way, I make sure everyone gets play time, so everyone develops better.
If I ever need to change order so team A plays an important match, then I play one match with team C, which is both reserves combined. That is enough to make team A switch from wednesdays to saturdays.
P.S.: This strategy considers two matches a week, including friendlies.
ZaZ said: Yes, especially if they get some play time. My strategy is to have 33 players and rotate them like below.
Team A: 1-11, with 23-28 reserves.
Team B: 12-22, with 28-33.
Player 28 is third goalkeeper, so he is reserve for both teams. To make sure each reserve can substitute two players, I make sure to train WBI as DW (and vice-versa) and DLP as CM (and vice-versa). If someone from any team gets injuried, I substitute with the reserve from same team. I also always make 3 substitutions in every match, being at least 2 by 45 min. That way, I make sure everyone gets play time, so everyone develops better.
If I ever need to change order so team A plays an important match, then I play one match with team C, which is both reserves combined. That is enough to make team A switch from wednesdays to saturdays.
P.S.: This strategy considers two matches a week, including friendlies.
Hum.. Thanks for the tips.
One last question.. When you have 1 game week or 2 games week, what changes you do in training? Can you share your trainings for one game week and two games week??
Gpassosbh said: Hum.. Thanks for the tips.
One last question.. When you have 1 game week or 2 games week, what changes you do in training? Can you share your trainings for one game week and two games week??
If I have one match in the week, I propose a friendly so it becomes two matches. I also delegate friendly matches to the assistant manager so it goes faster, then it usually uses the players I set before the match starts.
Mr ZaZ - I am writing to both congratulate you for the wonderful formation and to thank you for your effort in fine-tuning it. I just used your v2.2 for Man Utd against a human controlled Liverpool team (which dominated our game with Fati, Haaland and Salah scoring like fun) in season 3 and beat them 3-2 in Community Shield - my first silverware! Would have won 3-1 had I not had Skriniar sent off in 86 mins for bad tackle. Our defence is tight [despite all the "take more risks"] and the counter attack is just impossible to deal with even though we have such low possession %. [Btw I am playing against a Liverpool team using 4-1-2-1-2 wide diamond and which scores on average 120 goals per season.]
I have two questions for you.
First, do you think it is advisable to move the CM(a) to AM position and deploy him as AP(s) - in between the two SS - and move DLP(s) to CM and deploy him as either DLP or BWM? The reason is that whilst the CM(a) generally does very well (I have Kessie and B Fernandes rotating) the DLP(s) does not do so well and often has very low rating (even though I already have Camanviga). I wonder if that has to do with the DLP(s) not being required to do a lot in recycling possession because he is assisted by the two IWB in that area, and I think in FM players are largely rated by how "busy" they are in their positions. But my concern is that using AP(s) may slow down the pace because AP tends to hold up the ball and look for chances to create openings, and this goes against the directness in your formation.
Second, do you think it is possible to adapt your tactic into a possession-based one by lowering the tempo and using low block? Whilst I love the way the team plays and the directness, I always feel I am taking a risk against another direct-play team, or those weaker teams which park the bus.
Once again, many thanks for the great work. Much appreciated.
Btw, my current starting eleven are as follows: (don't know how to screencap)
Demir -- Greenwood
Lemar --- Kessie --- B Fernandes
Camanviga
Telles - Koulibaly - Skriniar - Kounde
De Gea
Kessie + Camanviga in the center is just wonderful because of their high work rate and tackling, suit the pressing style very much. B Fernandes on the right wing can fully utilize his creativity (he has good crossing too). Kounde retrained as R-IWB and I think it is a masterstroke because he has excellent heading and passing and very decent pace, whereas Wan Bissaka is more defensive and less creative.
JTC said: Mr ZaZ - I am writing to both congratulate you for the wonderful formation and to thank you for your effort in fine-tuning it. I just used your v2.2 for Man Utd against a human controlled Liverpool team (which dominated our game with Fati, Haaland and Salah scoring like fun) in season 3 and beat them 3-2 in Community Shield - my first silverware! Would have won 3-1 had I not had Skriniar sent off in 86 mins for bad tackle. Our defence is tight [despite all the "take more risks"] and the counter attack is just impossible to deal with even though we have such low possession %. [Btw I am playing against a Liverpool team using 4-1-2-1-2 wide diamond and which scores on average 120 goals per season.]
I have two questions for you.
First, do you think it is advisable to move the CM(a) to AM position and deploy him as AP(s) - in between the two SS - and move DLP(s) to CM and deploy him as either DLP or BWM? The reason is that whilst the CM(a) generally does very well (I have Kessie and B Fernandes rotating) the DLP(s) does not do so well and often has very low rating (even though I already have Camanviga). I wonder if that has to do with the DLP(s) not being required to do a lot in recycling possession because he is assisted by the two IWB in that area, and I think in FM players are largely rated by how "busy" they are in their positions. But my concern is that using AP(s) may slow down the pace because AP tends to hold up the ball and look for chances to create openings, and this goes against the directness in your formation.
Second, do you think it is possible to adapt your tactic into a possession-based one by lowering the tempo and using low block? Whilst I love the way the team plays and the directness, I always feel I am taking a risk against another direct-play team, or those weaker teams which park the bus.
Once again, many thanks for the great work. Much appreciated.
Btw, my current starting eleven are as follows: (don't know how to screencap)
Demir -- Greenwood
Lemar --- Kessie --- B Fernandes
Camanviga
Telles - Koulibaly - Skriniar - Kounde
De Gea
Kessie + Camanviga in the center is just wonderful because of their high work rate and tackling, suit the pressing style very much. B Fernandes on the right wing can fully utilize his creativity (he has good crossing too). Kounde retrained as R-IWB and I think it is a masterstroke because he has excellent heading and passing and very decent pace, whereas Wan Bissaka is more defensive and less creative.
For the first question, I already tried that and it performs worse. Some people are having DM with low scores while others have DMs with the highest scores in the team. Despite the score being high or low, they are very important to make the other players perform well. It may not seem like it, but they usually have the highest number of passes in the game, meaning they are the main players to decide where the attack movements flow.
About the second question, I already tried to lower tempo and passing directness, but the results are also worse. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it will have worse results.
For the players, I would advise you get the fastest players that you can. Pace and acceleration are the most important attributes, followed by agility and dribbling (not so important for central defenders). The rest is nice to have, but not as important. My current team has the lowest of all attributes in the league, but the highest of those four attributes, and will finish the season with almost 20 points more than the second place.