EF 424 IF P105 AC

BASED ON TH V9 P97 TACTIC
Double pivot 424 high tempo short passing pass into space

wow didnt thik we would ever have a new leader

problem solvin has finally been dethroned

what is the difference between this tactic and problem solving?

DLQ said: what is the difference between this tactic and problem solving? Expand

Roam from position removed from PF and added to IF

Why am i not surprised it was Gerrard?

Anyway it's ugly 4204 again /sigh

CBP87 said: Roam from position removed from PF and added to IF Expand


Is it the only change compared to instructions in https://fm-arena.com/attachment/69078/  Problem solving? Including of course to mark DR and DL for IFs.

Alexandru said: Is it the only change compared to instructions in https://fm-arena.com/attachment/69078/  Problem solving? Including of course to mark DR and DL for IFs. Expand

Yeah roam from position is the only change that I can see

@Grimlock  player instructions please

Fmconsoleplayer said: @Grimlock  player instructions please Expand

It's the same instructions as problem solving, add roam from position to your inside forwards and remove it from the pressing forward

Vadimousique said: Anyway it's ugly 4204 again /sigh Expand

BLACK DOG 424 uses MCs

@infxamus  posted great info about traits for problem solving. I am copying it here as it is in his thread:

######### START
Traits that are contrasting to team/player instructions will lead to the tactic being less effective

A negative trait for ALL POSITIONS: "Does Not Dive Into Tackles" affects the "Tackle Harder" instruction

Only try putting a trait on the player if he has the ability to do it (example: If a player has high technique and passing "tries killer balls often" trait is a good one

...

For PF -
Positive Traits: "Comes Deep to Get Ball" or "Moves Into Channels", "Plays With Ball Back To Goal"
Negative Traits: "Runs With Ball Through Centre". Avoid using players who also have "Will Try to beat Offside Trap" or "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" traits for the role because then they'll basically turn into another AF when there's no other playmakers

For IFs -
Positive traits: "Runs With Ball Often", "Tries Killer Balls" "Cuts inside from *insert wing here*"
Negative Traits: "Likes ball played into feet" (affects "pass into space" team instruction), "Comes Deep To Get Ball", "Dwells On Ball"
########  END

Though as I understood due to changes in "roam from position", new traits will be as following:

For PF -
Positive Traits:  "Moves Into Channels", "Plays With Ball Back To Goal"

For IF - "Comes Deep to Get Ball" or "Moves Into Channels", "Runs With Ball Often", "Tries Killer Balls" "Cuts inside from *insert wing here*"

Correct me if I am wrong.

what about corners brother?

Alexandru said: @infxamus  posted great info about traits for problem solving. I am copying it here as it is in his thread:

######### START
Traits that are contrasting to team/player instructions will lead to the tactic being less effective

A negative trait for ALL POSITIONS: "Does Not Dive Into Tackles" affects the "Tackle Harder" instruction

Only try putting a trait on the player if he has the ability to do it (example: If a player has high technique and passing "tries killer balls often" trait is a good one

...

For PF -
Positive Traits: "Comes Deep to Get Ball" or "Moves Into Channels", "Plays With Ball Back To Goal"
Negative Traits: "Runs With Ball Through Centre". Avoid using players who also have "Will Try to beat Offside Trap" or "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" traits for the role because then they'll basically turn into another AF when there's no other playmakers

For IFs -
Positive traits: "Runs With Ball Often", "Tries Killer Balls" "Cuts inside from *insert wing here*"
Negative Traits: "Likes ball played into feet" (affects "pass into space" team instruction), "Comes Deep To Get Ball", "Dwells On Ball"
########  END

Though as I understood due to changes in "roam from position", new traits will be as following:

For PF -
Positive Traits:  "Moves Into Channels", "Plays With Ball Back To Goal"

For IF - "Comes Deep to Get Ball" or "Moves Into Channels", "Runs With Ball Often", "Tries Killer Balls" "Cuts inside from *insert wing here*"

Correct me if I am wrong. Expand
Here you can find more.

Alexandru said: @infxamus  posted great info about traits for problem solving. I am copying it here as it is in his thread:

######### START
Traits that are contrasting to team/player instructions will lead to the tactic being less effective

A negative trait for ALL POSITIONS: "Does Not Dive Into Tackles" affects the "Tackle Harder" instruction

Only try putting a trait on the player if he has the ability to do it (example: If a player has high technique and passing "tries killer balls often" trait is a good one

...

For PF -
Positive Traits: "Comes Deep to Get Ball" or "Moves Into Channels", "Plays With Ball Back To Goal"
Negative Traits: "Runs With Ball Through Centre". Avoid using players who also have "Will Try to beat Offside Trap" or "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" traits for the role because then they'll basically turn into another AF when there's no other playmakers

For IFs -
Positive traits: "Runs With Ball Often", "Tries Killer Balls" "Cuts inside from *insert wing here*"
Negative Traits: "Likes ball played into feet" (affects "pass into space" team instruction), "Comes Deep To Get Ball", "Dwells On Ball"
########  END

Though as I understood due to changes in "roam from position", new traits will be as following:

For PF -
Positive Traits:  "Moves Into Channels", "Plays With Ball Back To Goal"

For IF - "Comes Deep to Get Ball" or "Moves Into Channels", "Runs With Ball Often", "Tries Killer Balls" "Cuts inside from *insert wing here*"

Correct me if I am wrong. Expand

The pressing forward is a very weird role, is it basically DLF(s) with pressing maxed ?

Avenger22 said: The pressing forward is a very weird role, is it basically DLF(s) with pressing maxed ? Expand

Found this explanation for both with traits advised. Hope it helps:

Deep Lying Forward.

Main function is to link the attack to the midfield. He aims to drop deep into space and hold up the ball before supplying linking passes to teammates, moving the ball back to midfield support, spreading it wide to the flanks and, if he has time to turn, playing in his strike partner.

On support the Deep Lying Forward will largely aim to bring teammates into play before attacking the box from deep

Useful traits: Likes To Switch Ball To Other Flank, Moves Into Channels, Plays With Back To Goal, Stops Play, Tries Killer Balls Often

Pressing forward

His main duty is to put pressure on the opposition when they have possession, closing them down and chasing any loose balls in order to prevent the opposing players having too much time on the ball. The point at which he will press is dependent on the team’s overall line of engagement

On support the Pressing Forward will generally take more risks when looking to bring teammates into the game.

Traits for Support: Tackles, Plays With back to goal, Stops play.

So difference is minimal but looks like PF - presses more and moves less 

What would a good PF be? I'm running with chelsea. I was thinking of playing Nkunku there but maybe it's worth going for someone like Julian who I think you fit better. Has anyone tested this tactic with another club other than Man City?

manu said: What would a good PF be? I'm running with chelsea. I was thinking of playing Nkunku there but maybe it's worth going for someone like Julian who I think you fit better. Has anyone tested this tactic with another club other than Man City? Expand

Watkins

manu said: What would a good PF be? I'm running with chelsea. I was thinking of playing Nkunku there but maybe it's worth going for someone like Julian who I think you fit better. Has anyone tested this tactic with another club other than Man City? Expand

Just fast primarily. For the AF you want someone with good jumping reach.

For Chelsea you could play Nkunk as PF and Broja as AF. But you'd want to upgrade both tbh. Jackson and Washington aren't upto it. You could buy Moffi

keithb said: Just fast primarily. For the AF you want someone with good jumping reach.

For Chelsea you could play Nkunk as PF and Broja as AF. But you'd want to upgrade both tbh. Jackson and Washington aren't upto it. You could buy Moffi Expand

Tactic uses low crosses, jumping reach doesn't really matter as the crosses are ground level, pace and acceleration is a must. With pass into space being utilised I would say off the ball and anticipation would be beneficial. With PF, you want pace and acceleration too but chuck in stamina, work rate and aggression

CBP87 said: Tactic uses low crosses, jumping reach doesn't really matter as the crosses are ground level, pace and acceleration is a must. With pass into space being utilised I would say off the ball and anticipation would be beneficial. With PF, you want pace and acceleration too but chuck in stamina, work rate and aggression Expand

All my strikers with high jumping reach say very different. Win a lot of headers and score a lot of headed goals. Absurd to say doesnt really matter. Its ridiculously OP.

keithb said: All my strikers with high jumping reach say very different. Win a lot of headers and score a lot of headed goals. Absurd to say doesnt really matter. Its ridiculously OP. Expand

I have a striker with 5 jumping and he wins headers, he has also scored 16 goals in 13 games

CBP87 said: I have a striker with 5 jumping and he wins headers, he has also scored 16 goals in 13 games Expand

My nan won a header once. If you look under general stats your man with 5 jumping reach wont be contesting and winning headers compared to someone with 15+. And your second point isn't relevant either. I never said they cant be any good. But given the choice Id always go with Haaland, or even Samu if he has high ca/pa, over Mbappe. You said it doesnt really matter which is wrong. Jumping reach is seen at its best at DC and SC. If you play two SC's with high jumping reach the match engine literally breaks.

Anyway no chance you'll change your stance so have a good weekend. This reminds me of a conversation when most people told me it wasn't that important at DC as well.

keithb said: My nan won a header once. If you look under general stats your man with 5 jumping reach wont be contesting and winning headers compared to someone with 15+. And your second point isn't relevant either. I never said they cant be any good. But given the choice Id always go with Haaland, or even Samu if he has high ca/pa, over Mbappe. You said it doesnt really matter which is wrong. Jumping reach is seen at its best at DC and SC. If you play two SC's with high jumping reach the match engine literally breaks.

Anyway no chance you'll change your stance so have a good weekend. This reminds me of a conversation when most people told me it wasn't that important at DC as well. Expand

Jumping reach is important for a CB and I'm not saying it isn't important for a ST either but I'm saying for this tactic it doesn't really matter as you're using low crosses, shorter passing has been instructed so the vast majority of the time the striker will have the ball played into feet. Haaland and Samu are OP on this game anyways. Both have great physicals. The reason I mentioned the goals is because I wanted to show that even someone with poor jumping will score goals.

I'm always open to persuasion but my point here is that simply jumping reach doesn't have to play a role, a striker with good pace and acceleration will get you goals

Your 2+2 analysis doesnt stack up though. The game doesn't exactly do what it should? In many respects; attributes we all know, roles are a joke and even instructions aren't an exact science. Again look under general stats at headers constested and won and headed goals. Samu does indeed have great physicals and they are king as we know. But jumping reach is so, so, so, so OP for a striker in FM24 and 23. Cant remember 22. Yes absolutely a striker with low, 5 in your example, can and will still tear it up. But in this system, low crosses or not, the AF will be so much better if he has high jumping reach. Sesko and even Lucca being slower are incredible.

If you're ruling that out based on low crosses I would really have a re-think and test it out. I genuinely thought this was what everyone knew now.

keithb said: Your 2+2 analysis doesnt stack up though. The game doesn't exactly do what it should? In many respects; attributes we all know, roles are a joke and even instructions aren't an exact science. Again look under general stats at headers constested and won and headed goals. Samu does indeed have great physicals and they are king as we know. But jumping reach is so, so, so, so OP for a striker in FM24 and 23. Cant remember 22. Yes absolutely a striker with low, 5 in your example, can and will still tear it up. But in this system, low crosses or not, the AF will be so much better if he has high jumping reach. Sesko and even Lucca being slower are incredible.

If you're ruling that out based on low crosses I would really have a re-think and test it out. I genuinely thought this was what everyone knew now. Expand

I never said it doesn't matter or to disregard it. I said it doesn't really matter because of the style of play.

But I tested it as you said and I know its only a 1 season test but I changed the jumping attribute on both Haaland and Alvarez, Haaland as AF and Alvarez as PF

Jumping reach at 5 at start of season -





Jumping reach at 15 at start of season -





Make of it what you will, but looking at it, it's pretty similar results

This entire conversation is based upon you saying "Tactic uses low crosses, jumping reach doesn't really matter as the crosses are ground". Now you're using semantics to say you didn't really say that? Or I'm not sure what you're saying tbh.

As we all know one season has RNG? We also know low crosses are just better in the match engine.

Other attributes have also changed in your tests. Again I thought jumping reach was widely regarded as op up front. But it seems not.

Have a good weekend

does it change too mucho if I put a "attacking" mentality?