Under Given the conditions, For training facilities, Level 10 has 97.4% of the effect of "training facility 20 ", Level 5 has 92.1% of the effect, and Level 1 has 86.5% of the effect.
So a club with a level 10 training facility is basically growing at full speed
Not Under given conditions (such as changes in Age and other things) may change result, but here only give roughly conclusion to save time
Under Given the conditions, In terms of the number of match played, 97.4% participated in 100 games in 30 games per season, 88.4% in 20 games, 80.6% in 15 games, and 65.9% in 0 games
About 25 games is enough for 95% grow.
league reputation: 50,100,150,200 reputation makes no difference, the conclusion is that league reputation does not affect growth
Under Given the conditions, Ambition: take Ambition 10 for the standard 100% effect, Ambition 1 has 73.1% effect, Ambition 20 has 104.9% effect Ambition below 10 loses growth, ambition above 10 has relatively little impact
Under Given the conditions, Determination: take Determination 10 for the standard 100% effect, Determination 1 has 66% effect, Determination 20 has 101% effect
Determination below 10 will lose more growth, Determination above 10 have almost no effect
Height:
1. Height and Jumping reach, both independently have a positive effect on the performance of players on the match.
2. Height greatly affects the CA Upper limit (Attributes that cannot be assigned to Jumping reach are assigned to other attributes) that can be allocated for Jumping reach growth per season. In other words, the higher the height, the faster the Jumping reach can growth
3. No matter what height it is, Jumping reach can grow to 20. But the taller you are, the faster Jumping reach grow
These are tremendous data, thank you! As I am most exclusively play academy-only saves, his once again brings the importance of your HoYD's personality. Model professional is not enough, model citizen is the way. Also, I will put more emphasis on taller players.
BulldozerJokic said: These are tremendous data, thank you! As I am most exclusively play academy-only saves, his once again brings the importance of your HoYD's personality. Model professional is not enough, model citizen is the way. Also, I will put more emphasis on taller players. Expand
Could you expand on the difference between the two personalities, please?
Under Given the conditions, For training facilities, Level 10 has 97.4% of the effect of "training facility 20 ", Level 5 has 92.1% of the effect, and Level 1 has 86.5% of the effect.
So a club with a level 10 training facility is basically growing at full speed
Not Under given conditions (such as changes in Age and other things) may change result, but here only give roughly conclusion to save time
Under Given the conditions, In terms of the number of match played, 97.4% participated in 100 games in 30 games per season, 88.4% in 20 games, 80.6% in 15 games, and 65.9% in 0 games
About 25 games is enough for 95% grow.
league reputation: 50,100,150,200 reputation makes no difference, the conclusion is that league reputation does not affect growth
Under Given the conditions, Ambition: take Ambition 10 for the standard 100% effect, Ambition 1 has 73.1% effect, Ambition 20 has 104.9% effect Ambition below 10 loses growth, ambition above 10 has relatively little impact
Under Given the conditions, Determination: take Determination 10 for the standard 100% effect, Determination 1 has 66% effect, Determination 20 has 101% effect
Determination below 10 will lose more growth, Determination above 10 have almost no effect
Height:
1. Height and Jumping reach, both independently have a positive effect on the performance of players on the match.
2. Height greatly affects the CA Upper limit (Attributes that cannot be assigned to Jumping reach are assigned to other attributes) that can be allocated for Jumping reach growth per season. In other words, the higher the height, the faster the Jumping reach can growth
3. No matter what height it is, Jumping reach can grow to 20. But the taller you are, the faster Jumping reach grow
Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league.
kvasir said: Could you expand on the difference between the two personalities, please? Expand
MP has professionalism set to 20 but it's hard to tell what his other hidden attributes are, whereas MC has all of his hidden attributes between 14-20 afair. HoYD slightly affects hidden attributes of your youth intake. In order to minmax their growth, you want HoYD to be MC, or perhaps idealist (this personality has high professionalism and ambition, but othe attributes moght be low and it's not clear how it affects players efficiency on the pitch).
BulldozerJokic said: MP has professionalism set to 20 but it's hard to tell what his other hidden attributes are, whereas MC has all of his hidden attributes between 14-20 afair. HoYD slightly affects hidden attributes of your youth intake. In order to minmax their growth, you want HoYD to be MC, or perhaps idealist (this personality has high professionalism and ambition, but othe attributes moght be low and it's not clear how it affects players efficiency on the pitch). Expand
MP with Unflappable and Reserved is probably the best (20 prof, 15-20 pressure, 15-20 temperament) but MC is safer. Spirited with Reserved is also good (15-17 prof, 15-20 pressure, 15-20 temp). AFAIK pressure is arguably the 2nd most important HA with how it affects on-pitch performance.
Yarema said: Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league. Expand
I've heard the same being said about facilities (better facilities are required for higher CA ranges), but I don't have any evidence to back it up.
Yarema said: Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league. Expand
Thinking about this and how i saw my players develop. Could it be reputation of opposing teams is what affects player development. As i go forward with my San Marino BAN i found my players would get stuck at a low CA cap even with 20 training facilities. Something like 120CA when clubs in my league had half a star reputation. Now that they are up to 2 start even my backups go up to 140CA without playing that much in CL.
Can you please do player preferred moves (PPMs) next? Create exact same players with different PPMs or without any and see how their performance changes over a few thousand games?
ifilipic16 said: Thinking about this and how i saw my players develop. Could it be reputation of opposing teams is what affects player development. As i go forward with my San Marino BAN i found my players would get stuck at a low CA cap even with 20 training facilities. Something like 120CA when clubs in my league had half a star reputation. Now that they are up to 2 start even my backups go up to 140CA without playing that much in CL. Expand
Maybe the team reputation is the key factor instead of league, @harvestgreen22 can you test the team reputation as well?
Yarema said: Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league. Expand
I don't know if there are multiple factors contributing to it, if so, then need to find out what is the common influence
delra said: Can you please do player preferred moves (PPMs) next? Create exact same players with different PPMs or without any and see how their performance changes over a few thousand games? Expand
I've tested 6 of them before,"Preferred Moves" (which translates to "player habits" in my language).Each group used the test league in the forum to test between 3,300 and 5,500 games
Shoot with power Shoot From distance Plays Short Simple Passes Place Shots Like to Try to Beat Offside Trap Moves into Channels
To save time, I changed all 10 players on the team instead of just changing the players in certain positions, all the test are done in the tactic "God of chaos (v1)"
Results: Some had no effect on goal difference, while some had a small negative effect
no effect: Like to Try to Beat Offside Trap
small negative effect: Shoot with power Shoot From distance Plays Short Simple Passes Place Shots Moves into Channels
Then, a lot of people in our community have told me that their experience is that all player habits are either ineffective or bad, and the best habit is no habit at all
There , they may be some subjective bias, maybe they are right, or maybe the individual player habits in certain tactics are good
Because "tactics" and "Position / Role" may affect "Preferred Moves", It was too much work to go through them, and I didn't try more after discussion with community
animatron said: Maybe the team reputation is the key factor instead of league, @harvestgreen22 can you test the team reputation as well? Expand
Regarding Matches Played, did you test "Appearances" (i.e. games started + games as substitute) or did you test "Minutes Played"? It seems like each "match played" was a 90 minute appearance, but I'd like to know how spreading those out as, say, 45-minute appearances changes things.
Regarding Matches Played, did you test "Appearances" (i.e. games started + games as substitute) or did you test "Minutes Played"? It seems like each "match played" was a 90 minute appearance, but I'd like to know how spreading those out as, say, 45-minute appearances changes things. Expand
I'm using the FMRTE Modifier software, and I haven't found a setting for the AI to automatically switch some players to the substitute at a fixed time, So we don't know how to test the substitute yet
So here's a question, it seems like league reputation doesn't matter. But what about first team, vs say a "B" team. If you set it up so both the First Team and the B team compete in the same league, do the first team players develop better than the B players?
rossbalch said: So here's a question, it seems like league reputation doesn't matter. But what about first team, vs say a "B" team. If you set it up so both the First Team and the B team compete in the same league, do the first team players develop better than the First Team players? Expand
rossbalch said: So here's a question, it seems like league reputation doesn't matter. But what about first team, vs say a "B" team. If you set it up so both the First Team and the B team compete in the same league, do the first team players develop better than the First Team players? Expand The issue with B teams is that they are usually semipro
AFant said: MP with Unflappable and Reserved is probably the best (20 prof, 15-20 pressure, 15-20 temperament) but MC is safer. Spirited with Reserved is also good (15-17 prof, 15-20 pressure, 15-20 temp). AFAIK pressure is arguably the 2nd most important HA with how it affects on-pitch performance. Expand
High temperament negatively affects players performance. Source
Some B teams play in non-playable leagues or worse not league at all. Since league reputation does not matter could you check if playing friendlies vs playing 'competitive' matches matters? Asking because otherwise we could just leave all youth players in B team and ask staff to arrange friendlies once a week and we're done. No need for loans any more.
Frankly, I don't think there's a need for loans at all between harvestgreen22 and Zippo's findings. Why waste time quickly developing useless CA in order to get a loan to further quickly develop useless CA when you can spend that time slowly developing only useful CA (unless you're planning on selling the player and never play them).
I also discovered in my vanilla Athletic Bilbao save that players on Basconia still developed as though they were playing matches despite being in a non-playable league. Granted, I was only developing physicals using the optimized training schedules, but still. I saw +3 ACC +4 PAC on one of the players in a single season.
VenEttore said: Frankly, I don't think there's a need for loans at all between harvestgreen22 and Zippo's findings. Why waste time quickly developing useless CA in order to get a loan to further quickly develop useless CA when you can spend that time slowly developing only useful CA (unless you're planning on selling the player and never play them).
I also discovered in my vanilla Athletic Bilbao save that players on Basconia still developed as though they were playing matches despite being in a non-playable league. Granted, I was only developing physicals using the optimized training schedules, but still. I saw +3 ACC +4 PAC on one of the players in a single season. Expand
Keep in mind that some B teams/Youth teams playing in non-playable league have this weird situation - I don't know if it's still present but it was like that in previous FMs. Weird situation is that the team does not have any fixtures in the schedule but when you check players they will have 'league games' in their stats (on the bottom of players page) despite no visible fixtures on team schedule. I found about that when I was wondering why despite having this option 'arrange friendlies in a week with no matches' my assman didn't arrange any games so I did it manually just to find out that the players were playing those friendlies (arranged by me) and some 'invisible' league games. Hence why assman didn't arrange friendlies - they had arranged some games that I just couldn't see in the schedule.
Some B teams play in non-playable leagues or worse not league at all. Since league reputation does not matter could you check if playing friendlies vs playing 'competitive' matches matters? Asking because otherwise we could just leave all youth players in B team and ask staff to arrange friendlies once a week and we're done. No need for loans any more. Expand
I will try to test it, and my previous tests (which tested only one condition) showed that:
Adding friendly match x4 times , in a season , it doesn't work , The growth of the players seems unchanged,
So either it has an effect but it has a small effect because it doesn't have enough times, or it does have no effect on growth
Happy New Year
Under Given the conditions,
For training facilities, Level 10 has 97.4% of the effect of "training facility 20 ", Level 5 has 92.1% of the effect, and Level 1 has 86.5% of the effect.
So a club with a level 10 training facility is basically growing at full speed
Not Under given conditions (such as changes in Age and other things) may change result, but here only give roughly conclusion to save time
Under Given the conditions,
In terms of the number of match played, 97.4% participated in 100 games in 30 games per season, 88.4% in 20 games, 80.6% in 15 games, and 65.9% in 0 games
About 25 games is enough for 95% grow.
league reputation: 50,100,150,200 reputation makes no difference, the conclusion is that league reputation does not affect growth
Under Given the conditions,
Ambition: take Ambition 10 for the standard 100% effect, Ambition 1 has 73.1% effect, Ambition 20 has 104.9% effect
Ambition below 10 loses growth, ambition above 10 has relatively little impact
Under Given the conditions,
Determination: take Determination 10 for the standard 100% effect, Determination 1 has 66% effect, Determination 20 has 101% effect
Determination below 10 will lose more growth, Determination above 10 have almost no effect
Height:
1. Height and Jumping reach, both independently have a positive effect on the performance of players on the match.
2. Height greatly affects the CA Upper limit (Attributes that cannot be assigned to Jumping reach are assigned to other attributes) that can be allocated for Jumping reach growth per season.
In other words, the higher the height, the faster the Jumping reach can growth
3. No matter what height it is, Jumping reach can grow to 20. But the taller you are, the faster Jumping reach grow
Excel data : Training English 9.xlsx
https://pixeldrain.com/u/F5PXgZ7y
edit:
Professionalism 1、10、20
Professionalism 1、5、10、15、20
These are tremendous data, thank you! As I am most exclusively play academy-only saves, his once again brings the importance of your HoYD's personality. Model professional is not enough, model citizen is the way. Also, I will put more emphasis on taller players.
this is why i come here. thanks.
BulldozerJokic said: These are tremendous data, thank you! As I am most exclusively play academy-only saves, his once again brings the importance of your HoYD's personality. Model professional is not enough, model citizen is the way. Also, I will put more emphasis on taller players.
Could you expand on the difference between the two personalities, please?
harvestgreen22 said: Happy New Year
Under Given the conditions,
For training facilities, Level 10 has 97.4% of the effect of "training facility 20 ", Level 5 has 92.1% of the effect, and Level 1 has 86.5% of the effect.
So a club with a level 10 training facility is basically growing at full speed
Not Under given conditions (such as changes in Age and other things) may change result, but here only give roughly conclusion to save time
Under Given the conditions,
In terms of the number of match played, 97.4% participated in 100 games in 30 games per season, 88.4% in 20 games, 80.6% in 15 games, and 65.9% in 0 games
About 25 games is enough for 95% grow.
league reputation: 50,100,150,200 reputation makes no difference, the conclusion is that league reputation does not affect growth
Under Given the conditions,
Ambition: take Ambition 10 for the standard 100% effect, Ambition 1 has 73.1% effect, Ambition 20 has 104.9% effect
Ambition below 10 loses growth, ambition above 10 has relatively little impact
Under Given the conditions,
Determination: take Determination 10 for the standard 100% effect, Determination 1 has 66% effect, Determination 20 has 101% effect
Determination below 10 will lose more growth, Determination above 10 have almost no effect
Height:
1. Height and Jumping reach, both independently have a positive effect on the performance of players on the match.
2. Height greatly affects the CA Upper limit (Attributes that cannot be assigned to Jumping reach are assigned to other attributes) that can be allocated for Jumping reach growth per season.
In other words, the higher the height, the faster the Jumping reach can growth
3. No matter what height it is, Jumping reach can grow to 20. But the taller you are, the faster Jumping reach grow
Excel data : Training English 9.xlsx
https://pixeldrain.com/u/F5PXgZ7y
edit:
Professionalism 1、10、20
Professionalism 1、5、10、15、20
Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league.
kvasir said: Could you expand on the difference between the two personalities, please?
MP has professionalism set to 20 but it's hard to tell what his other hidden attributes are, whereas MC has all of his hidden attributes between 14-20 afair. HoYD slightly affects hidden attributes of your youth intake. In order to minmax their growth, you want HoYD to be MC, or perhaps idealist (this personality has high professionalism and ambition, but othe attributes moght be low and it's not clear how it affects players efficiency on the pitch).
BulldozerJokic said: MP has professionalism set to 20 but it's hard to tell what his other hidden attributes are, whereas MC has all of his hidden attributes between 14-20 afair. HoYD slightly affects hidden attributes of your youth intake. In order to minmax their growth, you want HoYD to be MC, or perhaps idealist (this personality has high professionalism and ambition, but othe attributes moght be low and it's not clear how it affects players efficiency on the pitch).
MP with Unflappable and Reserved is probably the best (20 prof, 15-20 pressure, 15-20 temperament) but MC is safer. Spirited with Reserved is also good (15-17 prof, 15-20 pressure, 15-20 temp). AFAIK pressure is arguably the 2nd most important HA with how it affects on-pitch performance.
Yarema said: Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league.
I've heard the same being said about facilities (better facilities are required for higher CA ranges), but I don't have any evidence to back it up.
Yarema said: Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league.
Thinking about this and how i saw my players develop. Could it be reputation of opposing teams is what affects player development. As i go forward with my San Marino BAN i found my players would get stuck at a low CA cap even with 20 training facilities. Something like 120CA when clubs in my league had half a star reputation. Now that they are up to 2 start even my backups go up to 140CA without playing that much in CL.
Can you please do player preferred moves (PPMs) next? Create exact same players with different PPMs or without any and see how their performance changes over a few thousand games?
ifilipic16 said: Thinking about this and how i saw my players develop. Could it be reputation of opposing teams is what affects player development. As i go forward with my San Marino BAN i found my players would get stuck at a low CA cap even with 20 training facilities. Something like 120CA when clubs in my league had half a star reputation. Now that they are up to 2 start even my backups go up to 140CA without playing that much in CL.
Maybe the team reputation is the key factor instead of league, @harvestgreen22 can you test the team reputation as well?
Yarema said: Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league.
I don't know if there are multiple factors contributing to it, if so, then need to find out what is the common influence
delra said: Can you please do player preferred moves (PPMs) next? Create exact same players with different PPMs or without any and see how their performance changes over a few thousand games?
I've tested 6 of them before,"Preferred Moves" (which translates to "player habits" in my language).Each group used the test league in the forum to test between 3,300 and 5,500 games
Shoot with power
Shoot From distance
Plays Short Simple Passes
Place Shots
Like to Try to Beat Offside Trap
Moves into Channels
To save time, I changed all 10 players on the team instead of just changing the players in certain positions,
all the test are done in the tactic "God of chaos (v1)"
Results: Some had no effect on goal difference, while some had a small negative effect
no effect:
Like to Try to Beat Offside Trap
small negative effect:
Shoot with power
Shoot From distance
Plays Short Simple Passes
Place Shots
Moves into Channels
Then, a lot of people in our community have told me that their experience is that all player habits are either ineffective or bad, and the best habit is no habit at all
There , they may be some subjective bias, maybe they are right, or maybe the individual player habits in certain tactics are good
Because "tactics" and "Position / Role" may affect "Preferred Moves",
It was too much work to go through them, and I didn't try more after discussion with community
animatron said: Maybe the team reputation is the key factor instead of league, @harvestgreen22 can you test the team reputation as well?
I'll try it if I have time
Thanks for your continued hard work!
Regarding Matches Played, did you test "Appearances" (i.e. games started + games as substitute) or did you test "Minutes Played"? It seems like each "match played" was a 90 minute appearance, but I'd like to know how spreading those out as, say, 45-minute appearances changes things.
VenEttore said: Thanks for your continued hard work!
Regarding Matches Played, did you test "Appearances" (i.e. games started + games as substitute) or did you test "Minutes Played"? It seems like each "match played" was a 90 minute appearance, but I'd like to know how spreading those out as, say, 45-minute appearances changes things.
I'm using the FMRTE Modifier software, and I haven't found a setting for the AI to automatically switch some players to the substitute at a fixed time,
So we don't know how to test the substitute yet
So here's a question, it seems like league reputation doesn't matter. But what about first team, vs say a "B" team. If you set it up so both the First Team and the B team compete in the same league, do the first team players develop better than the B players?
rossbalch said: So here's a question, it seems like league reputation doesn't matter. But what about first team, vs say a "B" team. If you set it up so both the First Team and the B team compete in the same league, do the first team players develop better than the First Team players?
They develop the same
rossbalch said: So here's a question, it seems like league reputation doesn't matter. But what about first team, vs say a "B" team. If you set it up so both the First Team and the B team compete in the same league, do the first team players develop better than the First Team players?
The issue with B teams is that they are usually semipro
AFant said: MP with Unflappable and Reserved is probably the best (20 prof, 15-20 pressure, 15-20 temperament) but MC is safer. Spirited with Reserved is also good (15-17 prof, 15-20 pressure, 15-20 temp). AFAIK pressure is arguably the 2nd most important HA with how it affects on-pitch performance.
High temperament negatively affects players performance.
Source
@harvestgreen22
Some B teams play in non-playable leagues or worse not league at all. Since league reputation does not matter could you check if playing friendlies vs playing 'competitive' matches matters?
Asking because otherwise we could just leave all youth players in B team and ask staff to arrange friendlies once a week and we're done. No need for loans any more.
Orion said: No need for loans any more.
Frankly, I don't think there's a need for loans at all between harvestgreen22 and Zippo's findings. Why waste time quickly developing useless CA in order to get a loan to further quickly develop useless CA when you can spend that time slowly developing only useful CA (unless you're planning on selling the player and never play them).
I also discovered in my vanilla Athletic Bilbao save that players on Basconia still developed as though they were playing matches despite being in a non-playable league. Granted, I was only developing physicals using the optimized training schedules, but still. I saw +3 ACC +4 PAC on one of the players in a single season.
VenEttore said: Frankly, I don't think there's a need for loans at all between harvestgreen22 and Zippo's findings. Why waste time quickly developing useless CA in order to get a loan to further quickly develop useless CA when you can spend that time slowly developing only useful CA (unless you're planning on selling the player and never play them).
I also discovered in my vanilla Athletic Bilbao save that players on Basconia still developed as though they were playing matches despite being in a non-playable league. Granted, I was only developing physicals using the optimized training schedules, but still. I saw +3 ACC +4 PAC on one of the players in a single season.
Keep in mind that some B teams/Youth teams playing in non-playable league have this weird situation - I don't know if it's still present but it was like that in previous FMs. Weird situation is that the team does not have any fixtures in the schedule but when you check players they will have 'league games' in their stats (on the bottom of players page) despite no visible fixtures on team schedule.
I found about that when I was wondering why despite having this option 'arrange friendlies in a week with no matches' my assman didn't arrange any games so I did it manually just to find out that the players were playing those friendlies (arranged by me) and some 'invisible' league games. Hence why assman didn't arrange friendlies - they had arranged some games that I just couldn't see in the schedule.
Orion said: @harvestgreen22
Some B teams play in non-playable leagues or worse not league at all. Since league reputation does not matter could you check if playing friendlies vs playing 'competitive' matches matters?
Asking because otherwise we could just leave all youth players in B team and ask staff to arrange friendlies once a week and we're done. No need for loans any more.
I will try to test it, and my previous tests (which tested only one condition) showed that:
Adding friendly match x4 times , in a season , it doesn't work , The growth of the players seems unchanged,
So either it has an effect but it has a small effect because it doesn't have enough times, or it does have no effect on growth
The old research guide came with a guide of recommended jumping attribute range per height brackets :
https://www.panoz.it/FMItalia/Downloads/Ricerca/FM20_Guida_Completa.htm
Maybe in the PreGameEditor you can correlate that.
PS: "Friendly" is its own competition and has a reputation of 10.