Methodology We test each attribute one by one at 2 states, at value "8" and at value "20" then after increasing the value from "8" to "20 we measure the difference for the result.
*Physical* Pace: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +64) | (Goals For +45) | (Goals Against -59)
Acceleration: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +64) | (Goals For +49) | (Goals Against -48)
Stamina: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +19) | (Goals For +9) | (Goals Against -16)
Jumping Reach: increasing this attribute from "8" to "17" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +16) | (Goals For +14) | (Goals Against -8)
Balance: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +13) | (Goals For +10) | (Goals Against -8)
Strength: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +10) | (Goals For +7) | (Goals Against -5)
Agility: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +8) | (Goals For +6) | (Goals Against -6)
Natural Fitness: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +2) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against -2)
*Mental* Anticipation: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +18) | (Goals For +15) | (Goals Against -10)
Work Rate: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +12) | (Goals For +6) | (Goals Against -10)
Concentration: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +9) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -8)
Determination: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -5)
Decisions: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +1) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against 0)
Composure: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +1) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against 0)
Aggression:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Bravery:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Flair:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Teamwork:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Vision:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Off The Ball:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Positioning:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Leadership:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
*Technical* Dribbling: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +19) | (Goals For +25) | (Goals Against -3)
Finishing: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +8) | (Goals For +8) | (Goals Against -1)
Long Shots: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +6) | (Goals For +7) | (Goals Against 0)
Heading: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +5 | (Goals For +5) | (Goals Against -1)
Crossing: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +4 | (Goals For +5) | (Goals Against 0)
First Touch: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +3) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against -2)
Passing: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +2) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against 0)
Technique: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +1) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against 0)
Tackling: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -2)
Marking:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
*GK Attributes* Reflexes: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +8) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -10)
Agility: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +6) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -8)
Acceleration: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +2) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -3)
One On Ones: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.3) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -1)
Aerial Reach: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Command of Area: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Communication: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Handling: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Anticipation: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Concentration: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Positioning: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Pace:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Consistency:increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Rushing Out(Tendency):increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
*Set Pieces* Corners: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.5) | (Goals For +1) | (Goals Against 0)
Free Kick Taking: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +0.5) | (Goals For +1) | (Goals Against 0)
Penalty Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Throws: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Hidden Attributes* Consistency: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +10) | (Goals For +8) | (Goals Against -8)
*Position Rating* Position Rating: increasing Position Rating from "Accomplished(15)" to "Natural(20)" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +6) | (Goals For +5) | (Goals Against -5)
*Morale* Morale: increasing Morale from "Okay(10)" to "Perfect(20)" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +2) | (Goals For +1) | (Goals Against -3)
*Conditions* Conditions: increasing Conditions from "Good" to "Peak" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -5)
*Team Cohesion* Team Cohesion: improving Team Cohesion from "Good" to "Excellent" improves the result on 38 matches distance by (Points +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -4)
thanks for the awesome work! just a suggestion, we know that finding attributes at value 20 is unlikely in the game. So if possible, please check the behavior at value = 15.
sponsorkindest said: thanks for the awesome work! just a suggestion, we know that finding attributes at value 20 is unlikely in the game. So if possible, please check the behavior at value = 15. Expand
Hi,
Our the most recent research of the subject confirmed that the relationship between improving the attributes and the result changes is kind of linear.
For example, if improving Pace from 8 to 20 improve the result by +64 points then improving Pace from 8 to 15 points would improve the result by +37 point.
You can easily calculate it yourself for any attribute level you want.
Can't find the post you made the other day, about capped and uncapped attributes. You said something that some attributes make a difference all over from 8 to 20 and some attributes make a difference from 8 to 14 and no difference at all past that. Also there are some attributes that make no difference at all from 8 to 20.
So what's the conclusion from these tests? - Aggression, Bravery, Flair, Teamwork, Vision, Off The Ball, Positioning are the useless attributes? - Anticipation, Determination are attributes that make some difference from 8 to 14 and no more past that? - Pace, Acceleration are attributes that make a difference all over from 8 to 20?
nios said: Can't find the post you made the other day, about capped and uncapped attributes. You said something that some attributes make a difference all over from 8 to 20 and some attributes make a difference from 8 to 14 and no difference at all past that. Also there are some attributes that make no difference at all from 8 to 20. Expand
Yeahh, I said that earlier but more testing proved that it was an incorrect assumption. I'm taking it back.
nios said: So what's the conclusion from these tests? - Aggression, Bravery, Flair, Teamwork, Vision, Off The Ball, Positioning are the useless attributes? Expand
Yup, those attributes are "decorative" attributes that don't do anything "inside" matches.
There's another thread made by harvestgreen22 in which he tested goalkeeper attributes, and some of these findings seem to be at odds with his tests. Just to confirm, are these results for any player regardless of position or role?
VenEttore said: Just to confirm, are these results for any player regardless of position or role? Expand
This test is only for outfield players. GK is excluded from the test.
All the outfield players in the human controlled teams in our tactic testing league at the same time get their default attributes changed and tested with 2 values( 8 and 20 ) and then we measure the difference between "8" and "20" values.
Our the most recent research of the subject confirmed that the relationship between improving the attributes and the result changes is kind of linear.
For example, if improving Pace from 8 to 20 improve the result by +64 points then improving Pace from 8 to 15 points would improve the result by +37 point.
You can easily calculate it yourself for any attribute level you want. Expand
You say it's "kind of" linear. What's the definition of this? Is it linear - or not - or somwehere in between?
Just thinking if I, for now, are fine by taking all the results and simply do an addition of each step ((64 points / (20-8=12)) = 5.333) per step, for Pace/Acc as an example). So 9 pace is 5.33, 10 pace is 10.66, 11 pace is 15.99 etc etc.
AIK said: Just thinking if I, for now, are fine by taking all the results and simply do an addition of each step ((64 points / (20-8=12)) = 5.333) per step, for Pace/Acc as an example). So 9 pace is 5.33, 10 pace is 10.66, 11 pace is 15.99 etc etc. Expand
Yes, that would be a quite accurate estimation. Even if it's slight off then I wouldn't worry, it's not a big deal, no one dies that's for sure, we aren't doing a brain surgery here
Zippo said: Yes, that would be a quite accurate estimation. Even if it's slight off then I wouldn't worry, it's not a big deal, no one dies that's for sure, we aren't doing a brain surgery here Expand
It's just my autistic brain who wants to minmax everything. Thank you.
Zippo said: This test is only for outfield players. GK is excluded from the test.
All the outfield players in the human controlled teams in our tactic testing league at the same time get their default attributes changed and tested with 2 values( 8 and 20 ) and then we measure the difference between "8" and "20" values. Expand
Thank you for the clarification, and I'm looking forward to the completion of these tests. As an aside, I'm curious if some of the attributes affect individual player statistics even if they don't affect results/points. For example, Off The Ball is stated to be a decorative attribute, but I wonder if the player still ends up offside more often with a lower rating.
EDIT: actually, this has just gotten me wondering about Player Traits and which ones A) actually do anything at all, and B) are actually affected by the attributes that are implied to affect them (including decorative attributes)
Zippo said: Methodology We test each attribute one by one at 2 states, at value "8" and at value "20" then after increasing the value from "8" to "20 we measure the difference for the result.
*Physical* Pace: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +64) | (Goals For +45) | (Goals Against -59)
Acceleration: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +64) | (Goals For +49) | (Goals Against -48)
Strength: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +10) | (Goals For +7) | (Goals Against -5)
Agility: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Balance: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Jumping Reach: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Natural Fitness: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Stamina: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Mental* Anticipation: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +18) | (Goals For +15) | (Goals Against -10)
Work Rate: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +12) | (Goals For +6) | (Goals Against -10)
Concentration: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +9) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -8)
Determination: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -5)
Aggression:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Bravery:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Flair:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Decisions:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Teamwork:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Vision:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Off The Ball:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Positioning:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Composure:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Leadership: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Technical* Corners: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Crossing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Dribbling: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Finishing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
First Touch: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Free Kick Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Heading: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Shots: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Throws: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Marking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Passing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Penalty Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Technique: The attribute hasn't been tested yet. Expand
I know this is probably too big an ask, but given all the discussion on the site about the different impact on positions, I wonder if there was any chance to break the attribute tests up into 5 groupings:
DRL DC DM AMRL AMC/ST
This would have 2 players in each grouping and prove once and for all if the attributes change dramatically by position.
As I have said before, you guys do such a great job for this community and I have enormous respect for your work regardless of whether you are able to accommodate my request.
Mark said: I know this is probably too big an ask, but given all the discussion on the site about the different impact on positions, I wonder if there was any chance to break the attribute tests up into 5 groupings:
DRL DC DM AMRL AMC/ST
This would have 2 players in each grouping and prove once and for all if the attributes change dramatically by position.
As I have said before, you guys do such a great job for this community and I have enormous respect for your work regardless of whether you are able to accommodate my request. Expand
I think we are at a point near this sort of test.
The work is amazing, we will see clearly how attributes works, but we need to know it position by position, i'm totally agree.
Very interesting, looking forward to the final results! With this knowledge we can truly tailor-make players that will beat anything without having ridiculously high PA
I'm however still stuck on FM23 (missed out on the free FM24 on Epic Games).
Would you say that the difference between FM23 and FM24 are abysmal regarding how attributes are implemented in the game engine?
Cptbull said: Very interesting, looking forward to the final results! With this knowledge we can truly tailor-make players that will beat anything without having ridiculously high PA
I'm however still stuck on FM23 (missed out on the free FM24 on Epic Games).
Would you say that the difference between FM23 and FM24 are abysmal regarding how attributes are implemented in the game engine? Expand
Excellent stuff. Would it be possible to add some hidden attributes as well after the initial batch is done? Like weak foot, consistency, important matches and so on
VenEttore said: There's another thread made by harvestgreen22 in which he tested goalkeeper attributes, and some of these findings seem to be at odds with his tests. Just to confirm, are these results for any player regardless of position or role? Expand
What I can say about their testing is the training they developed is incredible. And I think his testing results are pretty good too. I wondered about the result of say finishing and composure both being 20. Looked interesting to me
Is it a fair assumption to say that some of the tested attributes works better for a specific category of players? Such as defensive/offensive cohorts:
Like these attributes works better for defensive minded players...: Pace (+45/-59) Work Rate (+6/-10) Concentration (+4/-8)
... and these for more offensive minded players? Acceleration (+49/-48) Dribbling (+25/-3) (quite obvious) Anticipation (+15/-10)
Obviously all attributes affects both goals for and goals against... but given acceleration scores more goals and have less impact on defense (and pace is vice verse), I'm thinking it might be a fair assumption?
AIK said: Is it a fair assumption to say that some of the tested attributes works better for a specific category of players? Such as defensive/offensive cohorts:
Like these attributes works better for defensive minded players...: Pace (+45/-59) Work Rate (+6/-10) Concentration (+4/-8)
... and these for more offensive minded players? Acceleration (+49/-48) Dribbling (+25/-3) (quite obvious) Anticipation (+15/-10)
Obviously all attributes affects both goals for and goals against... but given acceleration scores more goals and have less impact on defense (and pace is vice verse), I'm thinking it might be a fair assumption? Expand
all is right here, if we can close some tests with Defensive, and offensive side, it will be perfect ! !
AIK said: Finishing: +8/-1. Interesting. I was honestly thinking finishing didn't do much at all, but seems it got some value on attacking players. Expand
It's from 8 to 20, IMO it's near nothing, but it's not useless like 80% of the table
Falbravv said: It's from 8 to 20, IMO it's near nothing, but it's not useless like 80% of the table Expand
Yeah. I know. But I'd assume the testing means adding 20 finishing to ALL players.
So if we take these findings and apply in a FM save, we now know that we need to find strikers with decent finishing. Obviously 20/20/10 Acceleration/Pace/Finishing is way better than 10/10/20 Acceleration/Pace/Finishing, but at least finishing isn't completely useless in the end.
BulldozerJokic said: It just occurred to me that we can already kinda deduce the importance of stats for defensive/offensive players by looking in goals for/against Expand
I imagine a test like, 8 on DC-MDC and change on offensive side, and vice versa.
It will be the same results, but maybe more accurate.
But you're right, we can learn 90% of the stuff here.
Methodology
We test each attribute one by one at 2 states, at value "8" and at value "20" then after increasing the value from "8" to "20 we measure the difference for the result.
Tools for Evaluating Players in FM24 - Based on FM-Arena Attribute Testing for FM24
*Physical*
Pace: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +64) | (Goals For +45) | (Goals Against -59)
Acceleration: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +64) | (Goals For +49) | (Goals Against -48)
Stamina: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +19) | (Goals For +9) | (Goals Against -16)
Jumping Reach: increasing this attribute from "8" to "17" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +16) | (Goals For +14) | (Goals Against -8)
Balance: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +13) | (Goals For +10) | (Goals Against -8)
Strength: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +10) | (Goals For +7) | (Goals Against -5)
Agility: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +8) | (Goals For +6) | (Goals Against -6)
Natural Fitness: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +2) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against -2)
*Mental*
Anticipation: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +18) | (Goals For +15) | (Goals Against -10)
Work Rate: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +12) | (Goals For +6) | (Goals Against -10)
Concentration: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +9) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -8)
Determination: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -5)
Decisions: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +1) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against 0)
Composure: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +1) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against 0)
Aggression: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Bravery: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Flair: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Teamwork: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Vision: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Off The Ball: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Positioning: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Leadership: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
*Technical*
Dribbling: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +19) | (Goals For +25) | (Goals Against -3)
Finishing: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +8) | (Goals For +8) | (Goals Against -1)
Long Shots: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +6) | (Goals For +7) | (Goals Against 0)
Heading: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +5 | (Goals For +5) | (Goals Against -1)
Crossing: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +4 | (Goals For +5) | (Goals Against 0)
First Touch: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +3) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against -2)
Passing: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +2) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against 0)
Technique: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +1) | (Goals For +2) | (Goals Against 0)
Tackling: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -2)
Marking: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
*GK Attributes*
Reflexes: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +8) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -10)
Agility: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +6) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -8)
Acceleration: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +2) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -3)
One On Ones: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.3) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -1)
Aerial Reach: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Command of Area: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Communication: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Handling: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Anticipation: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Concentration: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Positioning: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.1) | (Goals For 0) | (Goals Against -0.25)
Pace: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Consistency: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Rushing Out(Tendency): increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
*Set Pieces*
Corners: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.5) | (Goals For +1) | (Goals Against 0)
Free Kick Taking: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +0.5) | (Goals For +1) | (Goals Against 0)
Penalty Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Throws: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Hidden Attributes*
Consistency: increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +10) | (Goals For +8) | (Goals Against -8)
*Position Rating*
Position Rating: increasing Position Rating from "Accomplished(15)" to "Natural(20)" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +6) | (Goals For +5) | (Goals Against -5)
*Morale*
Morale: increasing Morale from "Okay(10)" to "Perfect(20)" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +2) | (Goals For +1) | (Goals Against -3)
*Conditions*
Conditions: increasing Conditions from "Good" to "Peak" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -5)
*Team Cohesion*
Team Cohesion: improving Team Cohesion from "Good" to "Excellent" improves the result on 38 matches distance by
(Points +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -4)
thanks for the awesome work! just a suggestion, we know that finding attributes at value 20 is unlikely in the game. So if possible, please check the behavior at value = 15.
sponsorkindest said: thanks for the awesome work! just a suggestion, we know that finding attributes at value 20 is unlikely in the game. So if possible, please check the behavior at value = 15.
Hi,
Our the most recent research of the subject confirmed that the relationship between improving the attributes and the result changes is kind of linear.
For example, if improving Pace from 8 to 20 improve the result by +64 points then improving Pace from 8 to 15 points would improve the result by +37 point.
You can easily calculate it yourself for any attribute level you want.
Can't find the post you made the other day, about capped and uncapped attributes.
You said something that some attributes make a difference all over from 8 to 20 and some attributes make a difference from 8 to 14 and no difference at all past that.
Also there are some attributes that make no difference at all from 8 to 20.
So what's the conclusion from these tests?
- Aggression, Bravery, Flair, Teamwork, Vision, Off The Ball, Positioning are the useless attributes?
- Anticipation, Determination are attributes that make some difference from 8 to 14 and no more past that?
- Pace, Acceleration are attributes that make a difference all over from 8 to 20?
nios said: Can't find the post you made the other day, about capped and uncapped attributes.
You said something that some attributes make a difference all over from 8 to 20 and some attributes make a difference from 8 to 14 and no difference at all past that.
Also there are some attributes that make no difference at all from 8 to 20.
Yeahh, I said that earlier but more testing proved that it was an incorrect assumption. I'm taking it back.
nios said: So what's the conclusion from these tests?
- Aggression, Bravery, Flair, Teamwork, Vision, Off The Ball, Positioning are the useless attributes?
Yup, those attributes are "decorative" attributes that don't do anything "inside" matches.
There's another thread made by harvestgreen22 in which he tested goalkeeper attributes, and some of these findings seem to be at odds with his tests. Just to confirm, are these results for any player regardless of position or role?
I would also kindly ask to include hidden attributes to the test, such as pressure. Many claim it has an effect, yet I haven't seen anyone testing it.
VenEttore said: Just to confirm, are these results for any player regardless of position or role?
This test is only for outfield players. GK is excluded from the test.
All the outfield players in the human controlled teams in our tactic testing league at the same time get their default attributes changed and tested with 2 values( 8 and 20 ) and then we measure the difference between "8" and "20" values.
Zippo said: Hi,
Our the most recent research of the subject confirmed that the relationship between improving the attributes and the result changes is kind of linear.
For example, if improving Pace from 8 to 20 improve the result by +64 points then improving Pace from 8 to 15 points would improve the result by +37 point.
You can easily calculate it yourself for any attribute level you want.
You say it's "kind of" linear. What's the definition of this? Is it linear - or not - or somwehere in between?
Just thinking if I, for now, are fine by taking all the results and simply do an addition of each step ((64 points / (20-8=12)) = 5.333) per step, for Pace/Acc as an example). So 9 pace is 5.33, 10 pace is 10.66, 11 pace is 15.99 etc etc.
Absolutely fantstic work btw.
AIK said: Just thinking if I, for now, are fine by taking all the results and simply do an addition of each step ((64 points / (20-8=12)) = 5.333) per step, for Pace/Acc as an example). So 9 pace is 5.33, 10 pace is 10.66, 11 pace is 15.99 etc etc.
Yes, that would be a quite accurate estimation. Even if it's slight off then I wouldn't worry, it's not a big deal, no one dies that's for sure, we aren't doing a brain surgery here
Zippo said: Yes, that would be a quite accurate estimation. Even if it's slight off then I wouldn't worry, it's not a big deal, no one dies that's for sure, we aren't doing a brain surgery here
It's just my autistic brain who wants to minmax everything. Thank you.
Zippo said: This test is only for outfield players. GK is excluded from the test.
All the outfield players in the human controlled teams in our tactic testing league at the same time get their default attributes changed and tested with 2 values( 8 and 20 ) and then we measure the difference between "8" and "20" values.
Thank you for the clarification, and I'm looking forward to the completion of these tests. As an aside, I'm curious if some of the attributes affect individual player statistics even if they don't affect results/points. For example, Off The Ball is stated to be a decorative attribute, but I wonder if the player still ends up offside more often with a lower rating.
EDIT: actually, this has just gotten me wondering about Player Traits and which ones A) actually do anything at all, and B) are actually affected by the attributes that are implied to affect them (including decorative attributes)
Zippo said: Methodology
We test each attribute one by one at 2 states, at value "8" and at value "20" then after increasing the value from "8" to "20 we measure the difference for the result.
*Physical*
Pace: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +64) | (Goals For +45) | (Goals Against -59)
Acceleration: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +64) | (Goals For +49) | (Goals Against -48)
Strength: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +10) | (Goals For +7) | (Goals Against -5)
Agility: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Balance: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Jumping Reach: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Natural Fitness: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Stamina: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Mental*
Anticipation: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +18) | (Goals For +15) | (Goals Against -10)
Work Rate: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +12) | (Goals For +6) | (Goals Against -10)
Concentration: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +9) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -8)
Determination: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -5)
Aggression: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Bravery: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Flair: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Decisions: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Teamwork: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Vision: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Off The Ball: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Positioning: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Composure: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Leadership: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Technical*
Corners: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Crossing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Dribbling: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Finishing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
First Touch: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Free Kick Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Heading: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Shots: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Throws: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Marking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Passing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Penalty Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Technique: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
I know this is probably too big an ask, but given all the discussion on the site about the different impact on positions, I wonder if there was any chance to break the attribute tests up into 5 groupings:
DRL
DC
DM
AMRL
AMC/ST
This would have 2 players in each grouping and prove once and for all if the attributes change dramatically by position.
As I have said before, you guys do such a great job for this community and I have enormous respect for your work regardless of whether you are able to accommodate my request.
Mark said: I know this is probably too big an ask, but given all the discussion on the site about the different impact on positions, I wonder if there was any chance to break the attribute tests up into 5 groupings:
DRL
DC
DM
AMRL
AMC/ST
This would have 2 players in each grouping and prove once and for all if the attributes change dramatically by position.
As I have said before, you guys do such a great job for this community and I have enormous respect for your work regardless of whether you are able to accommodate my request.
I think we are at a point near this sort of test.
The work is amazing, we will see clearly how attributes works, but we need to know it position by position, i'm totally agree.
It's time =)
Very interesting, looking forward to the final results! With this knowledge we can truly tailor-make players that will beat anything without having ridiculously high PA
I'm however still stuck on FM23 (missed out on the free FM24 on Epic Games).
Would you say that the difference between FM23 and FM24 are abysmal regarding how attributes are implemented in the game engine?
Cptbull said: Very interesting, looking forward to the final results! With this knowledge we can truly tailor-make players that will beat anything without having ridiculously high PA
I'm however still stuck on FM23 (missed out on the free FM24 on Epic Games).
Would you say that the difference between FM23 and FM24 are abysmal regarding how attributes are implemented in the game engine?
Clearly no difference IMO.
The game is the same since many years.
Excellent stuff. Would it be possible to add some hidden attributes as well after the initial batch is done? Like weak foot, consistency, important matches and so on
VenEttore said: There's another thread made by harvestgreen22 in which he tested goalkeeper attributes, and some of these findings seem to be at odds with his tests. Just to confirm, are these results for any player regardless of position or role?
What I can say about their testing is the training they developed is incredible. And I think his testing results are pretty good too. I wondered about the result of say finishing and composure both being 20. Looked interesting to me
Is it a fair assumption to say that some of the tested attributes works better for a specific category of players? Such as defensive/offensive cohorts:
Like these attributes works better for defensive minded players...:
Pace (+45/-59)
Work Rate (+6/-10)
Concentration (+4/-8)
... and these for more offensive minded players?
Acceleration (+49/-48)
Dribbling (+25/-3) (quite obvious)
Anticipation (+15/-10)
Obviously all attributes affects both goals for and goals against... but given acceleration scores more goals and have less impact on defense (and pace is vice verse), I'm thinking it might be a fair assumption?
AIK said: Is it a fair assumption to say that some of the tested attributes works better for a specific category of players? Such as defensive/offensive cohorts:
Like these attributes works better for defensive minded players...:
Pace (+45/-59)
Work Rate (+6/-10)
Concentration (+4/-8)
... and these for more offensive minded players?
Acceleration (+49/-48)
Dribbling (+25/-3) (quite obvious)
Anticipation (+15/-10)
Obviously all attributes affects both goals for and goals against... but given acceleration scores more goals and have less impact on defense (and pace is vice verse), I'm thinking it might be a fair assumption?
all is right here, if we can close some tests with Defensive, and offensive side, it will be perfect ! !
Finishing: +8/-1. Interesting. I was honestly thinking finishing didn't do much at all, but seems it got some value on attacking players.
AIK said: Finishing: +8/-1. Interesting. I was honestly thinking finishing didn't do much at all, but seems it got some value on attacking players.
It's from 8 to 20, IMO it's near nothing, but it's not useless like 80% of the table
Falbravv said: It's from 8 to 20, IMO it's near nothing, but it's not useless like 80% of the table
Yeah. I know. But I'd assume the testing means adding 20 finishing to ALL players.
So if we take these findings and apply in a FM save, we now know that we need to find strikers with decent finishing. Obviously 20/20/10 Acceleration/Pace/Finishing is way better than 10/10/20 Acceleration/Pace/Finishing, but at least finishing isn't completely useless in the end.
It just occurred to me that we can already kinda deduce the importance of stats for defensive/offensive players by looking in goals for/against
BulldozerJokic said: It just occurred to me that we can already kinda deduce the importance of stats for defensive/offensive players by looking in goals for/against
I imagine a test like, 8 on DC-MDC and change on offensive side, and vice versa.
It will be the same results, but maybe more accurate.
But you're right, we can learn 90% of the stuff here.
I always put the training individual on speed in every position, and balance in global and your team and every tatic will perform better
Two things:
1. We're missing Tackling from the list currently.
2. Are these tests done with "Consistency: 20" across the board?
AIK said: 2. Are these tests done with "Consistency: 20" across the board?
Yes.
AIK said: 1. We're missing Tackling from the list currently.
Don't worry it's also in the queue for testing.
AIK said: 1. We're missing Tackling from the list currently.
Are you sure it will be important