pixar said: Could we also test qualities such as height, personality, and morale? Expand
Yes, some of the attributes you mentioned are on the list. Specifically, we're also planning to test the Position Rating, Consistency, Morale and probably, Conditions too.
Sandro said: Ouch Consistency turns out to be an influential attribute, that's surprising for me. Expand
I'd say at a +10 mate, I wouldn't bother with it. I'm not sure what the threshold is but I would probably just concentrate on attributes that has a value of +15
Jolt said: @Zippo Are you going to test 2 or 3 attribute combinations? Expand
We've tired testing attributes in combinations, assuming that one attribute might somehow amplify another, but we found out that wasn't the case so there's no point testing attribute combinations.
Zippo said: We've tired testing attributes in combinations, assuming that one attribute might somehow amplify another, but we found out that wasn't the case so there's no point testing attribute combinations. Expand
That is extremely surprising. So every combination tried merely increases cumulatively with the increase of the combined chosen attributes, with no statistical difference from the sum of the chosen attributes?
EDIT: So what does testing of a 20 Pace and 20 Acceleration look like, in terms of points, goals for and goals against, as opposed to a 20 Pace 10 Acceleration, or a 10 Pace 20 Acceleration?
EDIT 2: Or perhaps even a more clear example of synergy: "Goals for" with both Crossing and Heading in 20. For an attacking team to fully exploit high heading attributes, accurate crossings with high Crossing attributes generally means higher opportunities of goal scoring, as opposed great crosses to mediocre heading players or mediocre crosses that don't frequently reach great heading players. I wonder what's the testing difference specifically goals for, between 20 Crossing 20 Heading, and 20 Crossing 10 Heading, and 10 Crossing 20 Heading.
Zippo said: Yes, some of the attributes you mentioned are on the list. Specifically, we're also planning to test the Position Rating, Consistency, Morale and probably, Conditions too. Expand
Honestly it makes a lot of sense that Stamina is a quite important attribute. As we've seen in earlier tests, when players have low condition it affects the performance a lot.
Also consistency is not a huge surprise either. If I'm between two similar players in a signing process, I always sign the one with better consistency.
Thanks for your great work so far! The new tests involving condition and morale have suddenly got me wondering about "Team Cohesion" in the Dynamics tab. The text seems to imply that player performance is amplified with each other when Team Cohesion is high, but I now wonder if this is also decorative
pixar said: What about goalkeeping attributes? Expand
Probably, at some point we'll test GK attributes too but it has a low priority.
VenEttore said: Thanks for your great work so far! The new tests involving condition and morale have suddenly got me wondering about "Team Cohesion" in the Dynamics tab. The text seems to imply that player performance is amplified with each other when Team Cohesion is high, but I now wonder if this is also decorative Expand
@Zippo Hi, If it is possible can you test the footedness of players too. Like, R=5 L=20, R=10 L=20, R=15 L=20 and R=20 L=20 or vice versa because normally footedness of a player re-calculates the CA weighting and result of the CA and RCA.
Also increasing position value from 15 to 20 or from 10 to 20 would and should also re-evaluates player CA's reflection in the game values and on pitch values.
Because I believe (Couldn't test it yet) SI is using CA values in combination with position ratings to calculate or re-evaluate a role rating based on player's CA according to its combined position values or it should be like that.
Due to all research done by this website FM25 will be postponed untill novemberš¤£ they need more time to re-done whole match engine, otherwise it will be Pace and Acceleration again
White Europe said: Due to all research done by this website FM25 will be postponed untill novemberš¤£ they need more time to re-done whole match engine, otherwise it will be Pace and Acceleration again Expand
it's not from 2024-2025, every year you can find such things like that
The fact is, for the first time since many many years, they tried to change something in the game, and... here comes problems
I really think they haven't a real team of developers, to bring quality, and FM 2025 is the photo of this bad situation
Glennson said: Will important matches hidden atribute be tested too? Might also impact a lot. Expand There's only one hidden attribute that directly affects a match result, it's Consistency and it's been tested already.
Bafici said: @Zippo How many matches are played in the tests? A 38-game season? Expand As usual, everything was tested for thousands matches but then the data was translated for a standard season of 38 matches, to reflect what difference you can expect during a standard season of 38 matches.
Zippo said: There's only one hidden attribute that directly affects a match result, it's Consistency and it's been tested already.
As usual, everything was tested for thousands matches but then the data was translated for a standard season of 38 matches, to reflect what difference you can expect during a standard season of 38 matches. Expand
So basically, what you are saying is that with 8 Pace there is "X points", "Z goals for" and "Y goals against" - but once we are adding 20 Pace we are 64 points/45 Goals/-59 Against in a 38 match league from the 8 Pace baseline statistics?
I understand the prominence of each attribute, I just wasn't sure how to exactly interpret the difference in points/goals/against.
AIK said: So basically, what you are saying is that with 8 Pace there is "X points", "Z goals for" and "Y goals against" - but once we are adding 20 Pace we are 64 points/45 Goals/-59 Against in a 38 match league from the 8 Pace baseline statistics?
I understand the prominence of each attribute, I just wasn't sure how to exactly interpret the difference in points/goals/against. Expand
We don't know the points or goals of 8 pace team. 20 pace team gets 64 points more,scores 45 goals more and concedes 59 less goals than 8 pace team.
20 pace team wins 21 matches more than 8 pace team. That's a huge difference in 38 matches league.
AIK said: So basically, what you are saying is that with 8 Pace there is "X points", "Z goals for" and "Y goals against" - but once we are adding 20 Pace we are 64 points/45 Goals/-59 Against in a 38 match league from the 8 Pace baseline statistics? Expand
Yes, improving the Pace attribute of all your outfield players from 8 to 20 adds to the result about +64 pts if we take a standard league of 38 matches.
Could we also test qualities such as height, personality, and morale?
pixar said: Could we also test qualities such as height, personality, and morale?
Yes, some of the attributes you mentioned are on the list. Specifically, we're also planning to test the Position Rating, Consistency, Morale and probably, Conditions too.
Ouch
Consistency turns out to be an influential attribute, that's surprising for me.
Sandro said: Ouch
Consistency turns out to be an influential attribute, that's surprising for me.
I'd say at a +10 mate, I wouldn't bother with it. I'm not sure what the threshold is but I would probably just concentrate on attributes that has a value of +15
I see we've got Position Rating tested, that's nice!
There's an interesting difference between Accomplished and Natural ratings.
@Zippo Are you going to test 2 or 3 attribute combinations?
Jolt said: @Zippo Are you going to test 2 or 3 attribute combinations?
We've tired testing attributes in combinations, assuming that one attribute might somehow amplify another, but we found out that wasn't the case so there's no point testing attribute combinations.
Ha! I thought there would be a bigger difference between Okay and Perfect morale... unexpected.
Zippo said: We've tired testing attributes in combinations, assuming that one attribute might somehow amplify another, but we found out that wasn't the case so there's no point testing attribute combinations.
That is extremely surprising. So every combination tried merely increases cumulatively with the increase of the combined chosen attributes, with no statistical difference from the sum of the chosen attributes?
EDIT: So what does testing of a 20 Pace and 20 Acceleration look like, in terms of points, goals for and goals against, as opposed to a 20 Pace 10 Acceleration, or a 10 Pace 20 Acceleration?
EDIT 2: Or perhaps even a more clear example of synergy: "Goals for" with both Crossing and Heading in 20. For an attacking team to fully exploit high heading attributes, accurate crossings with high Crossing attributes generally means higher opportunities of goal scoring, as opposed great crosses to mediocre heading players or mediocre crosses that don't frequently reach great heading players. I wonder what's the testing difference specifically goals for, between 20 Crossing 20 Heading, and 20 Crossing 10 Heading, and 10 Crossing 20 Heading.
Zippo said: Yes, some of the attributes you mentioned are on the list. Specifically, we're also planning to test the Position Rating, Consistency, Morale and probably, Conditions too.
What about goalkeeping attributes?
Honestly it makes a lot of sense that Stamina is a quite important attribute. As we've seen in earlier tests, when players have low condition it affects the performance a lot.
Also consistency is not a huge surprise either. If I'm between two similar players in a signing process, I always sign the one with better consistency.
Morale => LOL
Thanks for your great work so far! The new tests involving condition and morale have suddenly got me wondering about "Team Cohesion" in the Dynamics tab. The text seems to imply that player performance is amplified with each other when Team Cohesion is high, but I now wonder if this is also decorative
pixar said: What about goalkeeping attributes?
Probably, at some point we'll test GK attributes too but it has a low priority.
VenEttore said: Thanks for your great work so far! The new tests involving condition and morale have suddenly got me wondering about "Team Cohesion" in the Dynamics tab. The text seems to imply that player performance is amplified with each other when Team Cohesion is high, but I now wonder if this is also decorative
Team Cohesion has been tested already - https://fm-arena.com/thread/9943-fm24-team-cohesion-good-vs-excellent/
But for a better visibility I've also added Team Cohesion's result to this thread.
Really looking forward to get the result of Jumping Reach as well. Suspicious that it's quite important, especially defensively.
Zippo said: But for a better visibility I've also added Team Cohesion's result to this thread.
Thanks for this!
@Zippo Hi, If it is possible can you test the footedness of players too. Like, R=5 L=20, R=10 L=20, R=15 L=20 and R=20 L=20 or vice versa because normally footedness of a player re-calculates the CA weighting and result of the CA and RCA.
Also increasing position value from 15 to 20 or from 10 to 20 would and should also re-evaluates player CA's reflection in the game values and on pitch values.
Because I believe (Couldn't test it yet) SI is using CA values in combination with position ratings to calculate or re-evaluate a role rating based on player's CA according to its combined position values or it should be like that.
long shots? Who would've thought. Am I right that long shots don't even count towards player's CA?
BulldozerJokic said: long shots? Who would've thought. Am I right that long shots don't even count towards player's CA?
Long Shots attribute takes CA, it isn't free.
Due to all research done by this website FM25 will be postponed untill novemberš¤£ they need more time to re-done whole match engine, otherwise it will be Pace and Acceleration again
White Europe said: Due to all research done by this website FM25 will be postponed untill novemberš¤£ they need more time to re-done whole match engine, otherwise it will be Pace and Acceleration again
it's not from 2024-2025, every year you can find such things like that
The fact is, for the first time since many many years, they tried to change something in the game, and... here comes problems
I really think they haven't a real team of developers, to bring quality, and FM 2025 is the photo of this bad situation
Will important matches hidden atribute be tested too? Might also impact a lot.
Oh wow, long shots actually making a different. I've never even considered this attribute, and I've played the game since CM01/02.
@Zippo How many matches are played in the tests? A 38-game season?
Glennson said: Will important matches hidden atribute be tested too? Might also impact a lot.
There's only one hidden attribute that directly affects a match result, it's Consistency and it's been tested already.
Bafici said: @Zippo How many matches are played in the tests? A 38-game season?
As usual, everything was tested for thousands matches but then the data was translated for a standard season of 38 matches, to reflect what difference you can expect during a standard season of 38 matches.
Wwe're waiting for Jumping Reach, third more important attribute
Zippo said: There's only one hidden attribute that directly affects a match result, it's Consistency and it's been tested already.
As usual, everything was tested for thousands matches but then the data was translated for a standard season of 38 matches, to reflect what difference you can expect during a standard season of 38 matches.
So basically, what you are saying is that with 8 Pace there is "X points", "Z goals for" and "Y goals against" - but once we are adding 20 Pace we are 64 points/45 Goals/-59 Against in a 38 match league from the 8 Pace baseline statistics?
I understand the prominence of each attribute, I just wasn't sure how to exactly interpret the difference in points/goals/against.
AIK said: So basically, what you are saying is that with 8 Pace there is "X points", "Z goals for" and "Y goals against" - but once we are adding 20 Pace we are 64 points/45 Goals/-59 Against in a 38 match league from the 8 Pace baseline statistics?
I understand the prominence of each attribute, I just wasn't sure how to exactly interpret the difference in points/goals/against.
We don't know the points or goals of 8 pace team. 20 pace team gets 64 points more,scores 45 goals more and concedes 59 less goals than 8 pace team.
20 pace team wins 21 matches more than 8 pace team. That's a huge difference in 38 matches league.
AIK said: So basically, what you are saying is that with 8 Pace there is "X points", "Z goals for" and "Y goals against" - but once we are adding 20 Pace we are 64 points/45 Goals/-59 Against in a 38 match league from the 8 Pace baseline statistics?
Yes, improving the Pace attribute of all your outfield players from 8 to 20 adds to the result about +64 pts if we take a standard league of 38 matches.
Wow, Jumping reach is wayyyyyy useless that i think