Zippo said: Guys, a small notice here. Recently, I posted a guide how to search players with FMRTE based on the fm-arena attribute testing. But we found that FMRTE has an issue when it come to the Position Ratings, it's only possible to set them for the striker position and the application evaluates any other positions only on the Striker position ratings.
However, despite the issue, it's still possible to use FMRTE for searching players based on the position rating but it might be very confusing for some people so we decided to remove the guide about FMRTE.
I just wanted to let you what happened to the guide and why it's gone.
Cheers. Expand
Will you be looking to do something similar for Genie Scout?
Thanks again for the great work! This updates the table here right?
Any opinions on why Jumping Reach is not as important as before? It was the clear third best together with Dribbling and while one can still argue that Dribbling is still the third best, this is not the case any more for Jumping Reach. Does this have to do with the tactic used? (Maybe less emphasis on the set pieces?)
CBP87 said: Will you be looking to do something similar for Genie Scout?
Thanks Expand The last time we checked Genie Scout we found that the app changed the way it works.
Before Genie Scout was loading players directly from the memory, the same way as FMRTE but now it requires creating a player list in the transfer center in the game and Genie Scout can only load the players from that list.
We find the way Genie Scout loads players is a bit complicated and overall the process of setting it up and using it would be too confusing for people.
But we might back to it once more if we don't find any better alternative to use.
Jimmys said: Thanks again for the great work! This updates the table here right?
Any opinions on why Jumping Reach is not as important as before? It was the clear third best together with Dribbling and while one can still argue that Dribbling is still the third best, this is not the case any more for Jumping Reach. Does this have to do with the tactic used? (Maybe less emphasis on the set pieces?) Expand I forgot to mention that in this test we capped the max value of Jumping Reach to 17 instead of 20.
We did that because we were concerned that increasing Jumping Reach to 20 would create a very unrealistic environment, like gnomes play against giants, which might distress the result of the test by giving extra undeserved importance to the Jumping Reach attribute.
Zippo said: I forgot to mention that in this test we capped the max value of Jumping Reach to 17 instead of 20.
We did that because we were concerned that increasing Jumping Reach to 20 would create a very unrealistic environment, like gnomes play against giants, which might distress the result of the test by giving extra undeserved importance to the Jumping Reach attribute. Expand Could you make it a bit more visible in the first post, it's there but unless you read super carefully it's very easy to miss.
Zippo said: The last time we checked Genie Scout we found that the app changed the way it works.
Before Genie Scout was loading players directly from the memory, the same way as FMRTE but now it requires creating a player list in the transfer center in the game and Genie Scout can only load the players from that list.
We find the way Genie Scout loads players is a bit complicated and overall the process of setting it up and using it would be too confusing for people. Expand
Actually, Genie Scout can load all players directly from memory. What you're describing sounds like the process of importing a shortlist from the game into Genie, which is just one of the features available. You can do both. Personally, I load all players from memory, apply @Mark's ratings, and then filter within Genie based on those ratings.
Sorry if I misunderstood your point, but it seemed like you were suggesting that loading players is only possible via shortlist, which isn't the case.
Interesting research! Despite using a slightly different methodology, your results were very similar to those of the chinese tests (see image) done recently. This is good because it shows that the results are replicable. (Second image shows comparison)
HOWEVER, the testing methodology is not necessarily the most robust, for a number of reasons but is probably as robust as you can get without given the time and processing constraints. (Am a data scientist)
Having scoured the FM forums, the most robust (by far) is the testing done by ykykyk0525 (some basketball developer) who employ a multi-layered AI neural network. Their explanation is translated here: https://fm-arena.com/thread/2182-important-attributes-for-blue-dm/ . Admittedly this was done for FM22, so there might have been some change in the game engine and attribute effect, but knowing SI unlikely.
An additional benefit is that it provides different weightings for different positions (for a specified tactic)
kvasir said: Sorry if I misunderstood your point, but it seemed like you were suggesting that loading players is only possible via shortlist, which isn't the case. Expand
Yes, you're right. I somehow overlooked it. It's possible to load players directly from the memory using Genie Scout.
But I found another critical issue with Genie Scout, it doesn't have an option to search for players with Homegrown status.
For example, if you manage a club in any major European league then your team must maintain a certain amount of Homegrown players.
The problem is that for example, if you manage a club in England and you need to find players with Homegrown status for the team then you can't just search players with English nationality because there's a lot good players with English Homegrown status that don't have English nationality.
FMRTE allows you to search players with Trained in club/nation statuses and it's a great a shame that Genie Scout don't have such functionality too.
If I again overlooked it and there's an option to search players with Homegrown status in Genie Scout then please, let me know about.
twkmax said: @Zippo I was wondering what your thoughts were? Expand There are similar results for some attributes but also very different results for other attributes.
I have no clue about the methodology behind other tests but I know everything about our methodology and I have trust in it.
Zippo said: Yes, you're right. I somehow overlooked it. It's possible to load players directly from the memory using Genie Scout.
But I found another critical issue with Genie Scout, it doesn't have an option to search for players with Homegrown status.
If I again overlooked it and there's an option to search players with Homegrown status in Genie Scout then please, let me know about. Expand
I think you're right on that one — Genie Scout doesn’t seem to have a built-in option to search for players with Homegrown status. Funny enough, even with my 14-year Reading save, I’ve never run into a situation where I wasn’t meeting the Homegrown criteria.
That said, the shortlist feature can come in handy for this. Here’s how I’d approach it:
1. In-game, go to the scouting tab. 2. From the players section, select 'players in range.' 3. Add condition to narrow down players based on the Homegrown criteria. 4. Add all those players to a shortlist. 5. Load the shortlist in Genie Scout. 6. Apply further filtering within that shortlist using Genie Scout.
It’s not ideal, but it’s a workaround that might help.
Itsyaboy420 said: @Zippo so does the position rating in fmrte not work? i really need position ratings guide for fmrte. Expand
It works but setting it up for working is a quite complicated procedure.
Using and configurating it requires a very solid understanding of the subject because there're some important steps in the configuration process which, if overlooked, might cause serious issues. Also, using it isn't quite simple, you have to adjust the ratings every time you search players for a different position or replace the file that stores the position ratings settings.
So I'd say it's a bit complicated for an average FM player, even if there's a guide.
Zippo said: Guys, a small notice here. Recently, I posted a guide how to search players with FMRTE based on the fm-arena attribute testing. But we found that FMRTE has an issue when it come to the Position Ratings, it's only possible to set them for the striker position and the application evaluates any other positions only on the Striker position ratings.
However, despite the issue, it's still possible to use FMRTE for searching players based on the position rating but it might be very confusing for some people so we decided to remove the guide about FMRTE.
I just wanted to let you what happened to the guide and why it's gone.
Cheers.
Will you be looking to do something similar for Genie Scout?
Thanks
Thanks again for the great work! This updates the table here right?
Any opinions on why Jumping Reach is not as important as before? It was the clear third best together with Dribbling and while one can still argue that Dribbling is still the third best, this is not the case any more for Jumping Reach. Does this have to do with the tactic used? (Maybe less emphasis on the set pieces?)
CBP87 said: Will you be looking to do something similar for Genie Scout?
Thanks
The last time we checked Genie Scout we found that the app changed the way it works.
Before Genie Scout was loading players directly from the memory, the same way as FMRTE but now it requires creating a player list in the transfer center in the game and Genie Scout can only load the players from that list.
We find the way Genie Scout loads players is a bit complicated and overall the process of setting it up and using it would be too confusing for people.
But we might back to it once more if we don't find any better alternative to use.
Jimmys said: Thanks again for the great work! This updates the table here right?
Any opinions on why Jumping Reach is not as important as before? It was the clear third best together with Dribbling and while one can still argue that Dribbling is still the third best, this is not the case any more for Jumping Reach. Does this have to do with the tactic used? (Maybe less emphasis on the set pieces?)
I forgot to mention that in this test we capped the max value of Jumping Reach to 17 instead of 20.
We did that because we were concerned that increasing Jumping Reach to 20 would create a very unrealistic environment, like gnomes play against giants, which might distress the result of the test by giving extra undeserved importance to the Jumping Reach attribute.
Zippo said: I forgot to mention that in this test we capped the max value of Jumping Reach to 17 instead of 20.
We did that because we were concerned that increasing Jumping Reach to 20 would create a very unrealistic environment, like gnomes play against giants, which might distress the result of the test by giving extra undeserved importance to the Jumping Reach attribute.
Could you make it a bit more visible in the first post, it's there but unless you read super carefully it's very easy to miss.
Zippo said: The last time we checked Genie Scout we found that the app changed the way it works.
Before Genie Scout was loading players directly from the memory, the same way as FMRTE but now it requires creating a player list in the transfer center in the game and Genie Scout can only load the players from that list.
We find the way Genie Scout loads players is a bit complicated and overall the process of setting it up and using it would be too confusing for people.
Actually, Genie Scout can load all players directly from memory. What you're describing sounds like the process of importing a shortlist from the game into Genie, which is just one of the features available. You can do both. Personally, I load all players from memory, apply @Mark's ratings, and then filter within Genie based on those ratings.
Sorry if I misunderstood your point, but it seemed like you were suggesting that loading players is only possible via shortlist, which isn't the case.
Hello, how to create a genie scout rating file based on the post result
Interesting research! Despite using a slightly different methodology, your results were very similar to those of the chinese tests (see image) done recently. This is good because it shows that the results are replicable. (Second image shows comparison)
HOWEVER, the testing methodology is not necessarily the most robust, for a number of reasons but is probably as robust as you can get without given the time and processing constraints. (Am a data scientist)
Having scoured the FM forums, the most robust (by far) is the testing done by ykykyk0525 (some basketball developer) who employ a multi-layered AI neural network. Their explanation is translated here: https://fm-arena.com/thread/2182-important-attributes-for-blue-dm/ . Admittedly this was done for FM22, so there might have been some change in the game engine and attribute effect, but knowing SI unlikely.
An additional benefit is that it provides different weightings for different positions (for a specified tactic)
@Zippo I was wondering what your thoughts were?
kvasir said: Sorry if I misunderstood your point, but it seemed like you were suggesting that loading players is only possible via shortlist, which isn't the case.
Yes, you're right. I somehow overlooked it. It's possible to load players directly from the memory using Genie Scout.
But I found another critical issue with Genie Scout, it doesn't have an option to search for players with Homegrown status.
For example, if you manage a club in any major European league then your team must maintain a certain amount of Homegrown players.
The problem is that for example, if you manage a club in England and you need to find players with Homegrown status for the team then you can't just search players with English nationality because there's a lot good players with English Homegrown status that don't have English nationality.
FMRTE allows you to search players with Trained in club/nation statuses and it's a great a shame that Genie Scout don't have such functionality too.
If I again overlooked it and there's an option to search players with Homegrown status in Genie Scout then please, let me know about.
twkmax said: @Zippo I was wondering what your thoughts were?
There are similar results for some attributes but also very different results for other attributes.
I have no clue about the methodology behind other tests but I know everything about our methodology and I have trust in it.
thepunisher23 said: Hello, how to create a genie scout rating file based on the post result
Try these - https://fm-arena.com/thread/14059-ratings-file-for-genie-scout-based-on-fm-arena-attribute-testing/
Zippo said: Yes, you're right. I somehow overlooked it. It's possible to load players directly from the memory using Genie Scout.
But I found another critical issue with Genie Scout, it doesn't have an option to search for players with Homegrown status.
If I again overlooked it and there's an option to search players with Homegrown status in Genie Scout then please, let me know about.
I think you're right on that one — Genie Scout doesn’t seem to have a built-in option to search for players with Homegrown status. Funny enough, even with my 14-year Reading save, I’ve never run into a situation where I wasn’t meeting the Homegrown criteria.
That said, the shortlist feature can come in handy for this. Here’s how I’d approach it:
1. In-game, go to the scouting tab.
2. From the players section, select 'players in range.'
3. Add condition to narrow down players based on the Homegrown criteria.
4. Add all those players to a shortlist.
5. Load the shortlist in Genie Scout.
6. Apply further filtering within that shortlist using Genie Scout.
It’s not ideal, but it’s a workaround that might help.
@Zippo so does the position rating in fmrte not work? i really need position ratings guide for fmrte.
Itsyaboy420 said: @Zippo so does the position rating in fmrte not work? i really need position ratings guide for fmrte.
It works but setting it up for working is a quite complicated procedure.
Using and configurating it requires a very solid understanding of the subject because there're some important steps in the configuration process which, if overlooked, might cause serious issues. Also, using it isn't quite simple, you have to adjust the ratings every time you search players for a different position or replace the file that stores the position ratings settings.
So I'd say it's a bit complicated for an average FM player, even if there's a guide.