The purpose of this thread is to help beginner players make a basic analysis of their results and guide them in the right direction.
I've been noticing that almost all beginner players when they are unhappy about their results start to blame their tactics for that, they don't understand that the quality of their tactics is only one of the many factors(and not the biggest one) that determine the results. Here are some of the other factors:
- The quality of your players, this factor has an even bigger influence on the result than the quality of your tactic. Don't believe me? Just try using different tactics with such clubs as Barcelona, Man City, Liverpool, PSG and you'll see that with these clubs almost any tactic(even a poor one) gives you an opportunity of winning trophies. It's important to understand that even the best tactics don't guarantee winning trophies, it just helps you overachieving and to do better than your media prediction ( the quality of your players ) but that overachieving has its limits, for example, if you play in EPL ( the most challenging league in the world ) and your team has 10th prediction then you should not expect easily winning the title even using the best tactic in the game and finishing somewhere in the top 5 would a good result.
- The morale level of your players, this factor also has a significant impact on the results. If you don't know how to properly handle 'Team Meetings', 'Team Talks', 'Individual Conversations(Praise Player/Warn Player)' then your results always will be worse than they could be.
- A proper handling of the 'Touchline Instructions' is another important factor which also has a significant impact on the results. If you don't handle the 'Touchline Instructions' properly then your results always will be worse than they could be.
- A proper team rotation during the season also has a great impact on the results. You need to properly rotate your team during the season in order to keep all your players fit and fresh as possible. If you don't rotate your team and you use only your 11 best plyers to play the matches then they will get tired very fast and your results will be poor.
Another common mistake that many beginner players make is thinking that their results are poor when actually their results are OK. In order to avoid making this mistake I suggest always checking the media prediction table before the start of the season and always finishing the season before making any conclusions about your results.
IMPORTANT: You should always finish the season before making any conclusion! - making any conclusions before finishing the season is a big mistake!
Look at the picture below, it shows the EPL media prediction table, how things stand at the begging of the 1st season, the teams are order by the quality of their players:
Let's assume you picked Leeds(pred. 10th) and finished in the 9th place. Of course, such result isn't an outstanding result but still you did better than your media prediction so it can be consider as a positive result. If you used a more effective tactic and had more luck then you could finish in a higher place or even you could win the league but it's very important to understand that having the best tactic isn't the only what requires for winning in FM and there's no such tactic that gets you the EPL title with Leeds in the 1st season for granted and if there was such tactic then SI would fixed it immediately because it would made other important parts of the game irrelevant, for instance, why someone would want to get Messi or Ronaldo for his team if there's no any problem to win everything without such players in your team. I'm not saying that in FM it's impossible to win everything without Messi or Ronaldo in your team, I'm just saying that with such players in your team the probability of winning is much higher so having the best players in your team always will be giving benefits. So if you want to turn your club into an unstoppable force and become undefeatable then finding the best tactic won't be enough, it would also require bringing the best players into your club.
If you don't have time to play 3-5 seasons to build a strong team then I suggest using the 'Instant Result' to play some matches, it greatly speeds up the game processes.
I really hope this post will help beginner players to better understand the way the game works.
Very nice post! I would just add a couple more of factors, like player mentalities (consistency, important matches and other stuff that affects matches directly), pressure for the title race, complacency for winning streaks, happiness in general (playing time, training like team bonding and match practice, pep talks, media meetings), bad individual form (which can last a lot for some players, no clue what affects it), among others. In short, managing the mental state of players is usually as important as managing their physical state or the team tactics.
By the way, look what happened to my run with Leamington. I was in 5th, dreaming about a spot in the Euro Cup. However, my team started crumbling and won only one in the last ten matches. Does that mean the tactic stopped working? Absolutely not. My team is really weak, since no good player wants to join due to low reputation. It was predicted to be relegated. We are already overachieving by a lot, meaning either they started getting complacent for achieving their objective, or they cracked under pressure because of fighting for a spot in Euro Cup. In the end, I was incompetent in holding their spirits high and they don't have the right mentality for fighting there. Yet, I'm 8th place, better than last year when I finished 14th. I have high hopes for next year since my team is only getting stronger as time passes.
ZaZ said: By the way, look what happened to my run with Leamington. I was in 5th, dreaming about a spot in the Euro Cup. However, my team started crumbling and won only one in the last ten matches. Does that mean the tactic stopped working? Absolutely not. My team is really weak, since no good player wants to join due to low reputation. It was predicted to be relegated. We are already overachieving by a lot, meaning either they started getting complacent for achieving their objective, or they cracked under pressure because of fighting for a spot in Euro Cup. In the end, I was incompetent in holding their spirits high and they don't have the right mentality for fighting there. Yet, I'm 8th place, better than last year when I finished 14th. I have high hopes for next year since my team is only getting stronger as time passes. Expand
Yup... and that's how the game works.
SI always will be tying to keep FM somehow realistic, which means when you play in one of the most challenging leagues in the game such as EPL and you manage a mid-table team or a bottom-table team then you can't expect to win the league title for granted even using the best tactic, of course, it might happen but the probability of it is very low.
I've been noticing that in EPL you start getting a really high chance on winning the league only when your team in the top 5-7 and I find that's how it should be if we want FM to be somehow realistic.
I am loving all this discussion. I, like many, find all these discussions very helpful. My question relates to positions. I keep finding cheap Strikers with very good Pace, Acc, Agility and Dribling but no AMC ability. I am trying to retrain them as AMC SS, but do you think they are worthwhile playing straight away as AMC SS?
Mark said: I am loving all this discussion. I, like many, find all these discussions very helpful. My question relates to positions. I keep finding cheap Strikers with very good Pace, Acc, Agility and Dribling but no AMC ability. I am trying to retrain them as AMC SS, but do you think they are worthwhile playing straight away as AMC SS? Expand
I never wait for them to get trained before starting using them. I just set training to new position and throw them into matches if they are good enough.
P.S.: By the way, I almost threw my season in the toilet now. I'm currently leading Premier League with 16 matches played, but I had to play three easy matches in a single week. Before that, I went to my players for a team meeting, since we are overachieving and they could get complacent. However, I had the stupid idea of challenging them for the title. When you are predicted last, they don't take it very well and get insulted, so everyone's morale went to red. I never wasted so much time praising everything I could, like training, form, last match, conduct... but at least I managed to bring them to neutral morale before the matches. Got two victories and one tie.
Mark said: I am loving all this discussion. I, like many, find all these discussions very helpful. My question relates to positions. I keep finding cheap Strikers with very good Pace, Acc, Agility and Dribling but no AMC ability. I am trying to retrain them as AMC SS, but do you think they are worthwhile playing straight away as AMC SS? Expand
Here's the difference between "Natural" position rating and "Accomplished" position rating
The PPG dropped from 2.114 ( Natural rating ) to 1.976 ( Accomplished rating ) so it's about a 6.5% decrease, which means a player becomes about 6.5% less effective at a position if the position rating drops from 'Natural' to 'Accomplished'.
I don't know maybe FM-Arena will test more different position ratings at some point. For example, what's the difference between "Competent" position rating and "Natural" position rating.
Grimlock said: I don't know maybe FM-Arena will test more different position ratings at some point. For example, what's the difference between "Competent" position rating and "Natural" position rating. Expand
Zippo said: That's a good idea. We're working on it. Expand
It would be nice to have "untrained", since we already have accomplished. I believe that's what people would like to know the most, what is the impact of directly lining up a ST as AMC.
ZaZ said: It would be nice to have "untrained", since we already have accomplished. I believe that's what people would like to know the most, what is the impact of directly lining up a ST as AMC. Expand
If you're talking about the 'Ineffectual' rating then sure, we'll test it too.
Zippo said: If you're talking about the 'Ineffectual' rating then sure, we'll test it too. Expand
Is it possible to test another thing? I always wanted to know if it's better to have DCL with right or left foot, as well as DCR. Same for AMCL and AMCR. I mean, everyone only cares about feet from wingers, but what is better for those central positions with two players?
ZaZ said: Is it possible to test another thing? I always wanted to know if it's better to have DCL with right or left foot, as well as DCR. Same for AMCL and AMCR. I mean, everyone only cares about feet from wingers, but what is better for those central positions with two players? Expand
We've tested that and I can say that it's better to have a left footed player for DCL and a right footed player for DCR and the same for AMCL and AMCR but sadly, I can't give any numbers.
I'm an end user. And only a newbie novice. I decided to by-pass time and 'go on vacation.' I returned to the club unannounced in late December to see how things were going. I had ticked 'use current match tactics' before exiting. To my surprise when I opened the 'tactics' page to see who were the current 'a-team' I found the A.M. had the lads playing 4-4-2.
Machismo said: I'm an end user. And only a newbie novice. I decided to by-pass time and 'go on vacation.' I returned to the club unannounced in late December to see how things were going. I had ticked 'use current match tactics' before exiting. To my surprise when I opened the 'tactics' page to see who were the current 'a-team' I found the A.M. had the lads playing 4-4-2. Expand
It's highly likely you messed something up. It might be you forgot to set the tactic or it might you forgot to tick 'use current tactic' option when went on holiday. There's also a bug(extremely low occurrence rate) when the assistant manager don't use your tactic even he's instructed to do so.
If you can reproduce it then upload your save where it happens it'll be interesting to investigate it.
Still losing away matches playing against big teams away. Im playing Arsenal with Haaland and spending over 500 Mil pounds still unable to win CL got knocked out two continuous seasons in quarter final. I really doubt if this is the best tactic on FM.
Even with high morale, team cohesion unable to win matches against big teams, have 10 shots on target still losing matches even with opponents having 2 shots against me. Also, leaking goals too much. This game has become really frustrating
Still losing away matches playing against big teams away. Im playing Arsenal with Haaland and spending over 500 Mil pounds still unable to win CL got knocked out two continuous seasons in quarter final. I really doubt if this is the best tactic on FM.
Even with high morale, team cohesion unable to win matches against big teams, have 10 shots on target still losing matches even with opponents having 2 shots against me. Also, leaking goals too much. This game has become really frustrating Expand
If you are losing with the best tactic and the best players, then your problem is probably management. I mean, you can try loading the tactic on your team and going in vacation for the whole season, and you will probably grab most trophies. With a player managing the team, performance should be higher, not lower. Try to keep morale high, fatigue low, condition in top shape, use proper team talk and shouts, avoid injuries, recover players from bad spells, and so on. Also, remember even the best tactic will have losses, sometimes five or ten matches in a row without winning, but on average it will still be doing well.
ZaZ said: If you are losing with the best tactic and the best players, then your problem is probably management. I mean, you can try loading the tactic on your team and going in vacation for the whole season, and you will probably grab most trophies. With a player managing the team, performance should be higher, not lower. Try to keep morale high, fatigue low, condition in top shape, use proper team talk and shouts, avoid injuries, recover players from bad spells, and so on. Also, remember even the best tactic will have losses, sometimes five or ten matches in a row without winning, but on average it will still be doing well. Expand
Yes this makes sense to me and also your correct, with going on holiday I won everything including the CL and when manually playing I got knocked out 2 season in the quarter finals!
Hey,
This thread is inspired by Rince's thread - https://fm-arena.com/thread/1074-mythbusters-the-ai-learns-your-tactic-tactics-only-work-for-one-season/
The purpose of this thread is to help beginner players make a basic analysis of their results and guide them in the right direction.
I've been noticing that almost all beginner players when they are unhappy about their results start to blame their tactics for that, they don't understand that the quality of their tactics is only one of the many factors(and not the biggest one) that determine the results. Here are some of the other factors:
- The quality of your players, this factor has an even bigger influence on the result than the quality of your tactic. Don't believe me? Just try using different tactics with such clubs as Barcelona, Man City, Liverpool, PSG and you'll see that with these clubs almost any tactic(even a poor one) gives you an opportunity of winning trophies. It's important to understand that even the best tactics don't guarantee winning trophies, it just helps you overachieving and to do better than your media prediction ( the quality of your players ) but that overachieving has its limits, for example, if you play in EPL ( the most challenging league in the world ) and your team has 10th prediction then you should not expect easily winning the title even using the best tactic in the game and finishing somewhere in the top 5 would a good result.
- The morale level of your players, this factor also has a significant impact on the results. If you don't know how to properly handle 'Team Meetings', 'Team Talks', 'Individual Conversations(Praise Player/Warn Player)' then your results always will be worse than they could be.
- A proper handling of the 'Touchline Instructions' is another important factor which also has a significant impact on the results. If you don't handle the 'Touchline Instructions' properly then your results always will be worse than they could be.
- A proper team rotation during the season also has a great impact on the results. You need to properly rotate your team during the season in order to keep all your players fit and fresh as possible. If you don't rotate your team and you use only your 11 best plyers to play the matches then they will get tired very fast and your results will be poor.
Another common mistake that many beginner players make is thinking that their results are poor when actually their results are OK. In order to avoid making this mistake I suggest always checking the media prediction table before the start of the season and always finishing the season before making any conclusions about your results.
IMPORTANT: You should always finish the season before making any conclusion! - making any conclusions before finishing the season is a big mistake!
Look at the picture below, it shows the EPL media prediction table, how things stand at the begging of the 1st season, the teams are order by the quality of their players:
Let's assume you picked Leeds(pred. 10th) and finished in the 9th place. Of course, such result isn't an outstanding result but still you did better than your media prediction so it can be consider as a positive result. If you used a more effective tactic and had more luck then you could finish in a higher place or even you could win the league but it's very important to understand that having the best tactic isn't the only what requires for winning in FM and there's no such tactic that gets you the EPL title with Leeds in the 1st season for granted and if there was such tactic then SI would fixed it immediately because it would made other important parts of the game irrelevant, for instance, why someone would want to get Messi or Ronaldo for his team if there's no any problem to win everything without such players in your team. I'm not saying that in FM it's impossible to win everything without Messi or Ronaldo in your team, I'm just saying that with such players in your team the probability of winning is much higher so having the best players in your team always will be giving benefits. So if you want to turn your club into an unstoppable force and become undefeatable then finding the best tactic won't be enough, it would also require bringing the best players into your club.
If you don't have time to play 3-5 seasons to build a strong team then I suggest using the 'Instant Result' to play some matches, it greatly speeds up the game processes.
I really hope this post will help beginner players to better understand the way the game works.
Cheers.
That's a very good post, @Lapidus. It deserves to be pinned.
Very nice post! I would just add a couple more of factors, like player mentalities (consistency, important matches and other stuff that affects matches directly), pressure for the title race, complacency for winning streaks, happiness in general (playing time, training like team bonding and match practice, pep talks, media meetings), bad individual form (which can last a lot for some players, no clue what affects it), among others. In short, managing the mental state of players is usually as important as managing their physical state or the team tactics.
@Lapidus, some cracking efforts here, pal. Much Appreciated.
By the way, look what happened to my run with Leamington. I was in 5th, dreaming about a spot in the Euro Cup. However, my team started crumbling and won only one in the last ten matches. Does that mean the tactic stopped working? Absolutely not. My team is really weak, since no good player wants to join due to low reputation. It was predicted to be relegated. We are already overachieving by a lot, meaning either they started getting complacent for achieving their objective, or they cracked under pressure because of fighting for a spot in Euro Cup. In the end, I was incompetent in holding their spirits high and they don't have the right mentality for fighting there. Yet, I'm 8th place, better than last year when I finished 14th. I have high hopes for next year since my team is only getting stronger as time passes.
ZaZ said: By the way, look what happened to my run with Leamington. I was in 5th, dreaming about a spot in the Euro Cup. However, my team started crumbling and won only one in the last ten matches. Does that mean the tactic stopped working? Absolutely not. My team is really weak, since no good player wants to join due to low reputation. It was predicted to be relegated. We are already overachieving by a lot, meaning either they started getting complacent for achieving their objective, or they cracked under pressure because of fighting for a spot in Euro Cup. In the end, I was incompetent in holding their spirits high and they don't have the right mentality for fighting there. Yet, I'm 8th place, better than last year when I finished 14th. I have high hopes for next year since my team is only getting stronger as time passes.
Yup... and that's how the game works.
SI always will be tying to keep FM somehow realistic, which means when you play in one of the most challenging leagues in the game such as EPL and you manage a mid-table team or a bottom-table team then you can't expect to win the league title for granted even using the best tactic, of course, it might happen but the probability of it is very low.
I've been noticing that in EPL you start getting a really high chance on winning the league only when your team in the top 5-7 and I find that's how it should be if we want FM to be somehow realistic.
I am loving all this discussion. I, like many, find all these discussions very helpful. My question relates to positions. I keep finding cheap Strikers with very good Pace, Acc, Agility and Dribling but no AMC ability. I am trying to retrain them as AMC SS, but do you think they are worthwhile playing straight away as AMC SS?
Mark said: I am loving all this discussion. I, like many, find all these discussions very helpful. My question relates to positions. I keep finding cheap Strikers with very good Pace, Acc, Agility and Dribling but no AMC ability. I am trying to retrain them as AMC SS, but do you think they are worthwhile playing straight away as AMC SS?
I never wait for them to get trained before starting using them. I just set training to new position and throw them into matches if they are good enough.
P.S.: By the way, I almost threw my season in the toilet now. I'm currently leading Premier League with 16 matches played, but I had to play three easy matches in a single week. Before that, I went to my players for a team meeting, since we are overachieving and they could get complacent. However, I had the stupid idea of challenging them for the title. When you are predicted last, they don't take it very well and get insulted, so everyone's morale went to red. I never wasted so much time praising everything I could, like training, form, last match, conduct... but at least I managed to bring them to neutral morale before the matches. Got two victories and one tie.
Mark said: I am loving all this discussion. I, like many, find all these discussions very helpful. My question relates to positions. I keep finding cheap Strikers with very good Pace, Acc, Agility and Dribling but no AMC ability. I am trying to retrain them as AMC SS, but do you think they are worthwhile playing straight away as AMC SS?
Here's the difference between "Natural" position rating and "Accomplished" position rating
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/875-phoenix-v3-0-decreased-pos-rating-from-natural-to-accomplished-across-all-positions/
The PPG dropped from 2.114 ( Natural rating ) to 1.976 ( Accomplished rating ) so it's about a 6.5% decrease, which means a player becomes about 6.5% less effective at a position if the position rating drops from 'Natural' to 'Accomplished'.
I don't know maybe FM-Arena will test more different position ratings at some point. For example, what's the difference between "Competent" position rating and "Natural" position rating.
Grimlock said: I don't know maybe FM-Arena will test more different position ratings at some point. For example, what's the difference between "Competent" position rating and "Natural" position rating.
That's a good idea. We're working on it.
Zippo said: That's a good idea. We're working on it.
It would be nice to have "untrained", since we already have accomplished. I believe that's what people would like to know the most, what is the impact of directly lining up a ST as AMC.
ZaZ said: It would be nice to have "untrained", since we already have accomplished. I believe that's what people would like to know the most, what is the impact of directly lining up a ST as AMC.
If you're talking about the 'Ineffectual' rating then sure, we'll test it too.
Zippo said: If you're talking about the 'Ineffectual' rating then sure, we'll test it too.
Is it possible to test another thing? I always wanted to know if it's better to have DCL with right or left foot, as well as DCR. Same for AMCL and AMCR. I mean, everyone only cares about feet from wingers, but what is better for those central positions with two players?
ZaZ said: Is it possible to test another thing? I always wanted to know if it's better to have DCL with right or left foot, as well as DCR. Same for AMCL and AMCR. I mean, everyone only cares about feet from wingers, but what is better for those central positions with two players?
We've tested that and I can say that it's better to have a left footed player for DCL and a right footed player for DCR and the same for AMCL and AMCR but sadly, I can't give any numbers.
I'm an end user. And only a newbie novice. I decided to by-pass time and 'go on vacation.' I returned to the club unannounced in late December to see how things were going. I had ticked 'use current match tactics' before exiting. To my surprise when I opened the 'tactics' page to see who were the current 'a-team' I found the A.M. had the lads playing 4-4-2.
Machismo said: I'm an end user. And only a newbie novice. I decided to by-pass time and 'go on vacation.' I returned to the club unannounced in late December to see how things were going. I had ticked 'use current match tactics' before exiting. To my surprise when I opened the 'tactics' page to see who were the current 'a-team' I found the A.M. had the lads playing 4-4-2.
It's highly likely you messed something up. It might be you forgot to set the tactic or it might you forgot to tick 'use current tactic' option when went on holiday. There's also a bug(extremely low occurrence rate) when the assistant manager don't use your tactic even he's instructed to do so.
If you can reproduce it then upload your save where it happens it'll be interesting to investigate it.
I'm playing with this tactic - https://fm-arena.com/thread/12717-ef-424-if-hp-v2-p101-ac/
Still losing away matches playing against big teams away. Im playing Arsenal with Haaland and spending over 500 Mil pounds still unable to win CL got knocked out two continuous seasons in quarter final. I really doubt if this is the best tactic on FM.
Even with high morale, team cohesion unable to win matches against big teams, have 10 shots on target still losing matches even with opponents having 2 shots against me. Also, leaking goals too much. This game has become really frustrating
max 737 said: I'm playing with this tactic - https://fm-arena.com/thread/12717-ef-424-if-hp-v2-p101-ac/
Still losing away matches playing against big teams away. Im playing Arsenal with Haaland and spending over 500 Mil pounds still unable to win CL got knocked out two continuous seasons in quarter final. I really doubt if this is the best tactic on FM.
Even with high morale, team cohesion unable to win matches against big teams, have 10 shots on target still losing matches even with opponents having 2 shots against me. Also, leaking goals too much. This game has become really frustrating
If you are losing with the best tactic and the best players, then your problem is probably management. I mean, you can try loading the tactic on your team and going in vacation for the whole season, and you will probably grab most trophies. With a player managing the team, performance should be higher, not lower. Try to keep morale high, fatigue low, condition in top shape, use proper team talk and shouts, avoid injuries, recover players from bad spells, and so on. Also, remember even the best tactic will have losses, sometimes five or ten matches in a row without winning, but on average it will still be doing well.
ZaZ said: If you are losing with the best tactic and the best players, then your problem is probably management. I mean, you can try loading the tactic on your team and going in vacation for the whole season, and you will probably grab most trophies. With a player managing the team, performance should be higher, not lower. Try to keep morale high, fatigue low, condition in top shape, use proper team talk and shouts, avoid injuries, recover players from bad spells, and so on. Also, remember even the best tactic will have losses, sometimes five or ten matches in a row without winning, but on average it will still be doing well.
Yes this makes sense to me and also your correct, with going on holiday I won everything including the CL and when manually playing I got knocked out 2 season in the quarter finals!