tam1236 said: Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining. By the way we have the same trend in real life where players are more and more phycical. Expand
I can only repeat myself, there is a difference between certain attributes being more effective than others and what we are looking at here. The game presents you with this huge number of attributes and tells you these narratives around them, for example about playmakers with passing/technique/vision/flair and all the other combinations and how they work together with the roles/duties and even the traits.
Think about all these texts you get like "he doesn't read the game well enough" when we now know that "positioning" and "decisions" and all the other shit doesn't do anything.
And as I meantioned before, don't even get me started on the training farce and all these ingame texts of the different sessions. We are literally being lied to. How can you brush this off just like that.
Bill W said: This is kinda what I think I came up with...? (Assuming matches are on Saturdays)
Look about right to everyone? Expand
Are you able to import training schedules into the game? I mean, i'm able to create my own schedule but then i cant simply apply these schedules to every week.. the game just doesnt recognize my schedules
Sanfierro said: And honestly, I’m tired of seeing people like you in every FM community deliberately missing the main point just to defend the game out of pure fanboyism. So, I want to respond properly.
[Hate this bombastic style] Expand Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining.
tam1236 said: Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining. Expand
Xeno94 said: That excuse doesn't work for a SIMULATION game. Expand
Bro, you're over here hijacking a thread discussing "recent findings for optimal play in FM24 & FM26"... you know, the title of the thread... with your random ass complaints. If you wanna btich and moan, that's fine, go create your own thread that says "this game sucks I'm mad, come listen to me rant" instead of inturrupting our convo. In fact, the time you're over here wasting typing out a bunch of shit that A. We already know and probably better than you, and B. We don't care and still play anyway... You could playing some other game that doesn't cause you to crash out in the middle of adult conversations.
We get it, you mad. Now, try to get us, we don't care. Stop interrupting threads and go do something else with your time. It's more beneficial to your mental health.
Bill W said: Bro, you're over here hijacking a thread discussing "recent findings for optimal play in FM24 & FM26"... you know, the title of the thread... with your random ass complaints. If you wanna btich and moan, that's fine, go create your own thread that says "this game sucks I'm mad, come listen to me rant" instead of inturrupting our convo. In fact, the time you're over here wasting typing out a bunch of shit that A. We already know and probably better than you, and B. We don't care and still play anyway... You could playing some other game that doesn't cause you to crash out in the middle of adult conversations.
We get it, you mad. Now, try to get us, we don't care. Stop interrupting threads and go do something else with your time. It's more beneficial to your mental health. Expand
My problem with him is that he's trying to change our minds to something that we actually agree with him. It's exactly what you said: we dont care if the game is broken right at the start. we still want to play it until we get enough of it.
Gracolas said: Are you able to import training schedules into the game? I mean, i'm able to create my own schedule but then i cant simply apply these schedules to every week.. the game just doesnt recognize my schedules Expand
Anyhow, does anyone know how to import the schedules? I have made a training schedule based on the screenshots in this thread but then i cant load it to every week
However I think I created this before I created my templates so it will be a little different perhaps, and GenieScout also doesn't allow negative weighting for certain attributes. But overall it should be close enough.
very attacking + shorter passing + be more expressive + shoot on sight = +259, 114 very attacking = +270, 112 very attacking + shorter passing = +286, 114
very attacking + shorter passing, other adjustments + 9 subs = +306, 114 very attacking + shorter passing + work into box, other adjustments + 9 subs = +309, 114 very attacking + shorter passing, other adjustments + 9 subs = +312, 114 attacking + shorter passing, other adjustments + 9 subs = +312, 114
very attacking + shorter passing + work ball into box, other adjustments + 9 subs = +339, 114
Some observations:
The +339 result was not from the test with the most optimizations. So training schedule, pre-season team talk morale boost, match plans, all that mustn't have mattered much. I'm guessing what made the key difference was match fitness. A repeat of the same settings produced +309.
The changes to the tactic of 'very attacking', 'shorter passing' and 'work ball into box' seemed to produce slightly better results, or at least they weren't worse, whereas some others obviously were.
Biggest premier league game win I saw was 23-0.
I realized that penalty taking, and other set pieces, for goalkeeper has 0 weighting. This is potentially useful. I've said before that set piece attributes are not worth picking for. But you may as well select a goalkeeper with decent penalty taking and composure (which there are quite a few of), and make them your penalty taker. It will also have the satisfying effect of making your GK a goalscorer.
Gracolas said: Anyhow, does anyone know how to import the schedules? I have made a training schedule based on the screenshots in this thread but then i cant load it to every week Expand
Yes.
Go to change the schedule. Click create new schedule Top left select an existing type of schedule Choose custom schedules Bottom of that is load schedule Load it, then select and save it. You'll then likely have to advance a day for it to "save" in the system Then you should be able to go back into the calendar select a custom schedule and your imported one will be there.
It's honestly way trickier than it used to be, but it's doable.
Deleting schedules works similarly so your custom schedule don't pile up.
Go to change the schedule. Click create new schedule Top left select an existing type of schedule Choose custom schedules Bottom of that is load schedule Load it, then select and save it. You'll then likely have to advance a day for it to "save" in the system Then you should be able to go back into the calendar select a custom schedule and your imported one will be there.
It's honestly way trickier than it used to be, but it's doable.
Deleting schedules works similarly so your custom schedule don't pile up. Expand
Two things about this. 1) it only works for the first team, SI confirms that general training is not under our control for u21, u18 etc. you can change individual training and intensity but no commitment yet that si brings back ability to edit general training. 2) sometimes advancing time isn’t enough, you may have to completely exit the game and restart it before the custom schedule shows up.
Great guide but I just got a couple of questions about the attribute filters. Bear in mind that I don't have Genie Scout so I can't see the hidden attributes.
You got Shortlist filter Meta tactic filter Glance filter Ideal player and soon an In depth filter
The stats is so different in all of them so I kinda get a bit lost of which to pick from. Should my striker have these stats:
(Shortlist filter)
Acceleration/Pace 12 min Anticipation/Concentration/Consistency/Dribbling 8 min Determination/Work Rate 6 min
Technicals ~8-12 (8-14 before training) 12 Drib/Tech/Touch 12 Fin AML/AMR/ST (6 DL/DR/DC/DM) 12 Head (6 DL/DR/DM) 10 Long 10 Pass (6 DL/DR) 9 Cross 8 Tack (12 DC) 8 Mark (6 DL/DR/DM)
Hiddens & Misc ~1-12 6 Pen 6 Corner 4 Free Kick
I really want to try out this method so I just want to kinda get it right. But it seems like my striker would be something like this if I got this right.
Age max 22, preferably only Striker position thats dark green. Good Professionalism
Acceleration/Pace 14 min Bal 12 min Ant/Con 11 min Fin/Head/Comp/OffBall/Work/Det/Aggro/Brave/Jump/Sta/Agil/Drib/Tech/Touch 10 min Long/Pass/Vis/Team/Dec 9 min Cross/Tack/Mark/Pos/Nat/Strenght 8 min
and preferably low on the rest of the stats like Pen/Corner/Free Kick etc..
Am I doing this right or am I dead wrong? Haha! Thanks again for the good contribution.
MeanOnSunday said: Two things about this. 1) it only works for the first team, SI confirms that general training is not under our control for u21, u18 etc. you can change individual training and intensity but no commitment yet that si brings back ability to edit general training. 2) sometimes advancing time isn’t enough, you may have to completely exit the game and restart it before the custom schedule shows up. Expand
you can put them all in your main squad so they get the training benefits and choose make available for U18s
Trappkjeller said: I really want to try out this method so I just want to kinda get it right. But it seems like my striker would be something like this if I got this right.
Age max 22, preferably only Striker position thats dark green. Good Professionalism
Acceleration/Pace 14 min Bal 12 min Ant/Con 11 min Fin/Head/Comp/OffBall/Work/Det/Aggro/Brave/Jump/Sta/Agil/Drib/Tech/Touch 10 min Long/Pass/Vis/Team/Dec 9 min Cross/Tack/Mark/Pos/Nat/Strenght 8 min
and preferably low on the rest of the stats like Pen/Corner/Free Kick etc..
Am I doing this right or am I dead wrong? Haha! Expand
So what I wrote is the nitty gritty of it all, but really you can reduce it to these general principles:
1. It doesn't matter much what player you sign, because even a low PA 8 pace/acc player can still become a beast with HarvestGreen22's training regimes. 2. What will matter is training progress rate. So sign young players with at least decent professionalism and give them 15-30 matches/season or loan them out. 3. If you want extra performance and/or more rounded players, sign players with mid/high mentals/technicals to begin with. These mostly stagnate or drop with HarvestGreen22 training. 4. Sign players with low 'decisions'. 'Decisions' is a very costly attribute in terms of CA for all positions, yet it's performance impact is negligible. Low decisions frees up CA for better attributes like pace/acc/drib/jump. 5. Sign 'natural' (20) position players only. They have the equivalent of a starting +2 pace advantage over 'accomplished' (18) players, and 18 cannot even be later trained to 20. 6. Try to sign or train up players in line with the ~140 PA ideal attribute templates if really want to optimize things. 7. Avoid dirty players. Worry less about consistency, injury proneness, set pieces. Get a captain GK.
So let's look at 2 examples:
Both of these players will do good when paired with HarvestGreen22 training, but if I had the choice I would choose the second player because he has decent to strong starting technicals/mentals, whereas the first player will always be stuck with his ~3 long shots and whatnot.
Neither player would pass your filter, and this is why you need to be careful about setting filter attributes too high or having too many. If you do use a filter, something as low and simple as 8 pace/acc min can be enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, then just do an overall visual judgement of the attributes.
One last question Are U-18 leagues or custom made friendly tournaments enough matches for development? Or does the player have to play in the senior team’s league instead?
Sanfierro said: One last question Are U-18 leagues or custom made friendly tournaments enough matches for development? Or does the player have to play in the senior team’s league instead? Expand
For age 14-18, no matches will cap growth at ~60% (~12 CA/season). 20-30 matches ~20 CA/season.
For age 19-20, no matches will cap growth at ~35% (~5 CA/season). 20-30 matches ~14 CA/season.
For age 21-26, no matches will cap growth at near 0% (0 CA). 20-30 matches ~12 CA/season.
For GK, no matches is viable 14-20, but growth will be capped at ~20-35% throughout.
For age 14-18, u18/u23 friendlies are worth ~75% of proper senior matches.
For age 19-20, it's ~64%.
For age 21-23, it's ~50%.
For age 24-26, it's ~30%.
At all ages, senior friendlies are actually a bit worse than u18/u23 friendlies.
So u18/u23 matches are fine up to age 18, even 20 is ok, but 21+ you should loan them out even if it's to a team with poor training facilities. If you can play your best youth player(s) every match in your first team, do so even at age 14.
Subbing players in after 70th minute may actually make growth worse than no appearance, possibly due to foregone training. A crucial point I'll make here is that the game counts cumulative minutes played, not appearances.
As you can see, EBFM's videos have a ton of gold in them that isn't immediately obvious. I also recommend watching the second half of this video for anyone who wants all the precise detail on a bunch of other factors affecting player development. I'm surprised it only has 900 views still.
tam1236 said: Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining. Expand
sorry but nobody is talking about a game having a meta (meta = some attributes performing a little above their "paygrade). Here we are talking about a game where more than 2/3 of its attributes are literally not working at all. And therefore we have a game that's lying to you because it creates this illusion of roles and duties and attributes that are needed for them etc. think about all these small interactions "he doesn't read the game that well" when in reality "decisions" and "positioning" basically don't even exist. In this game a playmaker doesn't need passing and technique or flair and vision and decisions. He only needs speed. Does that sound right to you? Plus, the game tells you he needs passing. (just as an example).
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: So what I wrote is the nitty gritty of it all, but really you can reduce it to these general principles:
1. It doesn't matter much what player you sign, because even a low PA 8 pace/acc player can still become a beast with HarvestGreen22's training regimes. 2. What will matter is training progress rate. So sign young players with at least decent professionalism and give them 15-30 matches/season or loan them out. 3. If you want extra performance and/or more rounded players, sign players with mid/high mentals/technicals to begin with. These mostly stagnate or drop with HarvestGreen22 training. 4. Sign players with low 'decisions'. 'Decisions' is a very costly attribute in terms of CA for all positions, yet it's performance impact is negligible. Low decisions frees up CA for better attributes like pace/acc/drib/jump. 5. Sign 'natural' (20) position players only. They have the equivalent of a starting +2 pace advantage over 'accomplished' (18) players, and 18 cannot even be later trained to 20. 6. Try to sign or train up players in line with the ~140 PA ideal attribute templates if really want to optimize things. 7. Avoid dirty players. Worry less about consistency, injury proneness, set pieces. Get a captain GK.
So let's look at 2 examples:
Both of these players will do good when paired with HarvestGreen22 training, but if I had the choice I would choose the second player because he has decent to strong starting technicals/mentals, whereas the first player will always be stuck with his ~3 long shots and whatnot.
Neither player would pass your filter, and this is why you need to be careful about setting filter attributes too high or having too many. If you do use a filter, something as low and simple as 8 pace/acc min can be enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, then just do an overall visual judgement of the attributes. Expand
Thank you for the input! I will try to creat some monster players using these methods!
I did a test of dribbling specifically. HarvestGreen22 tested dribbling individually, and found it's the most important mental/technical attribute, with +8.2% win rate 12 > 18 drib; +33.5 goals 10 > 20 drib. But we don't know if that's still the case if the player already has high physicals, plus it's worth verifying the claim, so I did two types of tests:
8 vs 20 drib, with 20 pace/acc/jump + 8 other attributes
8 drib:
+52, 83 +77, 90 +67, 92 (came 2nd) +83, 92
20 drib:
+107, 97 +99, 95 +84, 97 +104, 100
Overall result: +30% goals, +10% points
-------------
140 PA 'ideal' templates with 8 drib and freed up CA reassigned randomly to other attributes vs 10-18 drib in my templates. I consider this test a more realistic indication of what you will get if you favor or disfavor dribbling.
8 drib:
+127, 104 +110, 106 +119, 102
10-18 drib:
+121, 107 +146, 107
Overall result: +13% goals, +3% points
--------------
So dribbling is quite significant, even with high physicals.
Note that my tests for this were poorly controlled due to laziness, but I feel it's adequate as a general indication. So it might be +20% or +40% rather than +30% say, but it's clearly a sizable difference. Maybe in the future I will do some more proper testing, so I can present it alongside results of other attribute combos or whatnot.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: 1. It doesn't matter much what player you sign, because even a low PA 8 pace/acc player can still become a beast with HarvestGreen22's training regimes. 2. What will matter is training progress rate. So sign young players with at least decent professionalism and give them 15-30 matches/season or loan them out. 3. If you want extra performance and/or more rounded players, sign players with mid/high mentals/technicals to begin with. These mostly stagnate or drop with HarvestGreen22 training.
5. Sign 'natural' (20) position players only. They have the equivalent of a starting +2 pace advantage over 'accomplished' (18) players, and 18 cannot even be later trained to 20. 6. Try to sign or train up players in line with the ~140 PA ideal attribute templates if really want to optimize things. 7. Avoid dirty players. Worry less about consistency, injury proneness, set pieces. Get a captain GK. (...) , something as low and simple as 8 pace/acc min can be enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, Expand 1. As far as I can see good physical progress can be observed at u19 players. If You buy 20 yo player with pace/acc 8 You lose your money. What's more if You have money to buy 140 PA young players there's no need to risk with very slow (speed 8) 18-20 yo players (BTW if you don't cheat with GS You don't know CA/PA ) 2. I would say determination is in a way more important because I dont remember players with professionalism 6-7, and not talking about less (I always try to search minimum in my teams for my information) but determination 2-3 is quite often in lower leagues - and drastically slower youngster progress - there is a hope for such a player but if you are not desperate dont risk with him. 5. You can change natural position and reach a new one to level 20 . Especially if You have a good newgen playing as CB with aerial reach ~9 you should do it. Apart from everything else aerial coaching doesnt work good. 6. If (IF!) You have money - why not. 7. Avoid players with low mental - concentration, compassion, determination have a great impact and are really hard to improve. From my experience GK with low consistency is a fail. Injury proneness IS important if You dont have good subs - on the other hand a game is buggy and player with this attribute 5 can have (in 4 years time) more injuries then the one with 15 - but statistically it is important, though You dont see these numbers without GS.
And maybe I'm wrong , but I have an impression that in FM24 loaning above-average young players to lower leagues doesnt work very good because their progress is capped by the league level.
tam1236 said: 1. As far as I can see good physical progress can be observed at u19 players. If You buy 20 yo player with pace/acc 8 You lose your money. What's more if You have money to buy 140 PA young players there's no need to risk with very slow (speed 8) 18-20 yo players (BTW if you don't cheat with GS You don't know CA/PA ) 2. I would say determination is in a way more important because I dont remember players with professionalism 6-7, and not talking about less (I always try to search minimum in my teams for my information) but determination 2-3 is quite often in lower leagues - and drastically slower youngster progress - there is a hope for such a player but if you are not desperate dont risk with him. 5. You can change natural position and reach a new one to level 20 . Especially if You have a good newgen playing as CB with aerial reach ~9 you should do it. Apart from everything else aerial coaching doesnt work good. 6. If (IF!) You have money - why not. 7. Avoid players with low mental - concentration, compassion, determination have a great impact and are really hard to improve. From my experience GK with low consistency is a fail. Injury proneness IS important if You dont have good subs - on the other hand a game is buggy and player with this attribute 5 can have (in 4 years time) more injuries then the one with 15 - but statistically it is important, though You dont see these numbers without GS.
And maybe I'm wrong , but I have an impression that in FM24 loaning above-average young players to lower leagues doesnt work very good because their progress is capped by the league level. Expand
Mostly agree except a few small things
Determination 3 > 15 is equivalent to professionalism 5 > 13. But also 20 Determination = 14 professionalism, and determination 6 does most of it. (source). I do say on my initial post to get 10+ determination for optimal, but because CA growth is capped each year you only really need say half the optimal, so having 13 professionalism alone is probably enough to do the job.
Also there was another reason professionalism is better, I can only vaguely remember now; I think it was that professionalism allows the player to develop even if they don't end up getting match experience.
I may be mistaken but I don't think you can train player position to 20, it can be 'natural' but it will still be 18. That said, I was doing some more testing of 18 vs 20 and it seemed to have negligible effect. I was testing it in the first place because I figured it's likely 15 > 20 isn't going to be linear. I'll have to run it a few more times to be sure there is no significant effect of 18 > 20.
Pretty sure you can get a new position to 20/20 unless they changed something in FM26, quite easily actually. New position might trigger some attribute relocation though due to different CA weights.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I may be mistaken but I don't think you can train player position to 20, it can be 'natural' but it will still be 18. Expand You can - tested many times. Especially at youngsters and with close positions. Of course it depends on versatility hidden attribute.
In theory professionalism is better - somebody on yt tested that there is no chance to make a good player with low prof. and sometimes it happens when a determination is low. But irl players with really low profess. are very, very few and very, very far between in FM base and in newgen. Balotelli is a lonely knight. And low determination you can see quite often
tam1236 said: You can - tested many times. Especially at youngsters and with close positions. Of course it depends on versatility hidden attribute.
In theory professionalism is better - somebody on yt tested that there is no chance to make a good player with low prof. and sometimes it happens when a determination is low. But irl players with really low profess. are very, very few and very, very far between in FM base and in newgen. Balotelli is a lonely knight. And low determination you can see quite often Expand
Oh Balotelli, I remember him. Determination. Professionalism. Not sure.
max 737 said: Can anyone explain this ME, I lost a home match and got knocked out of FA cup I have 16-3 shots on target and lose 0-3 ???? Expand
You got FMed. There isn't much what you can do about it, statistics is just annoying. If you have 5% chance to lose a match you dominated, it means you will lose it once every 20 tries, on average.
ZaZ said: You got FMed. There isn't much what you can do about it, statistics is just annoying. If you have 5% chance to lose a match you dominated, it means you will lose it once every 20 tries, on average. Expand
tam1236 said: Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining.
By the way we have the same trend in real life where players are more and more phycical.
I can only repeat myself, there is a difference between certain attributes being more effective than others and what we are looking at here. The game presents you with this huge number of attributes and tells you these narratives around them, for example about playmakers with passing/technique/vision/flair and all the other combinations and how they work together with the roles/duties and even the traits.
Think about all these texts you get like "he doesn't read the game well enough" when we now know that "positioning" and "decisions" and all the other shit doesn't do anything.
And as I meantioned before, don't even get me started on the training farce and all these ingame texts of the different sessions. We are literally being lied to. How can you brush this off just like that.
Bill W said: This is kinda what I think I came up with...? (Assuming matches are on Saturdays)
Look about right to everyone?
Are you able to import training schedules into the game? I mean, i'm able to create my own schedule but then i cant simply apply these schedules to every week.. the game just doesnt recognize my schedules
Sanfierro said: And honestly, I’m tired of seeing people like you in every FM community deliberately missing the main point just to defend the game out of pure fanboyism. So, I want to respond properly.
[Hate this bombastic style]
Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining.
tam1236 said: Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining.
That excuse doesn't work for a SIMULATION game.
Xeno94 said: That excuse doesn't work for a SIMULATION game.
Bro, you're over here hijacking a thread discussing "recent findings for optimal play in FM24 & FM26"... you know, the title of the thread... with your random ass complaints. If you wanna btich and moan, that's fine, go create your own thread that says "this game sucks I'm mad, come listen to me rant" instead of inturrupting our convo. In fact, the time you're over here wasting typing out a bunch of shit that A. We already know and probably better than you, and B. We don't care and still play anyway... You could playing some other game that doesn't cause you to crash out in the middle of adult conversations.
We get it, you mad.
Now, try to get us, we don't care.
Stop interrupting threads and go do something else with your time. It's more beneficial to your mental health.
Bill W said: Bro, you're over here hijacking a thread discussing "recent findings for optimal play in FM24 & FM26"... you know, the title of the thread... with your random ass complaints. If you wanna btich and moan, that's fine, go create your own thread that says "this game sucks I'm mad, come listen to me rant" instead of inturrupting our convo. In fact, the time you're over here wasting typing out a bunch of shit that A. We already know and probably better than you, and B. We don't care and still play anyway... You could playing some other game that doesn't cause you to crash out in the middle of adult conversations.
We get it, you mad.
Now, try to get us, we don't care.
Stop interrupting threads and go do something else with your time. It's more beneficial to your mental health.
My problem with him is that he's trying to change our minds to something that we actually agree with him.
It's exactly what you said: we dont care if the game is broken right at the start. we still want to play it until we get enough of it.
Gracolas said: Are you able to import training schedules into the game? I mean, i'm able to create my own schedule but then i cant simply apply these schedules to every week.. the game just doesnt recognize my schedules
Anyhow, does anyone know how to import the schedules? I have made a training schedule based on the screenshots in this thread but then i cant load it to every week
All other noise aside, I dig what you did there, mostly with ideal players templates.
Have you came up with a rating system for those ideal players to implement on GenieScout?
BrushlessPlaymaker said: All other noise aside, I dig what you did there, mostly with ideal players templates.
Have you came up with a rating system for those ideal players to implement on GenieScout?
Yes, here
However I think I created this before I created my templates so it will be a little different perhaps, and GenieScout also doesn't allow negative weighting for certain attributes. But overall it should be close enough.
I duplicated 9 players to use as subs, improved the GK to ~200 CA, and tried out a bunch of tweaks to my 'perfect squad'
(EF 424 IF HP V2 P101 AC) very attacking + shorter passing + work ball into box, GK 200 CA, other adjustments + 9 subs = +339, 114
20 pace/acc/jump/drib, 8 rest (~100 CA) - 1st, 86 Points, +82
20 pace/acc/jump/drib, 12 rest (~150 CA) - 1st, 107 points, +151
Low (~140 CA) Ideal Template - 1st, 108 points, +132
20 pace/acc/jump/drib, 14 rest (~180 CA) - 1st, 109 points, +162
20 pace/acc/jump/drib, 16 rest (~200 CA) - 1st, 112 points, +214
High (~200 CA) Ideal Template - 1st, 114 points, +268
very attacking + shorter passing + be more expressive + shoot on sight = +259, 114
very attacking = +270, 112
very attacking + shorter passing = +286, 114
very attacking + shorter passing, other adjustments + 9 subs = +306, 114
very attacking + shorter passing + work into box, other adjustments + 9 subs = +309, 114
very attacking + shorter passing, other adjustments + 9 subs = +312, 114
attacking + shorter passing, other adjustments + 9 subs = +312, 114
very attacking + shorter passing + work ball into box, other adjustments + 9 subs = +339, 114
Some observations:
The +339 result was not from the test with the most optimizations. So training schedule, pre-season team talk morale boost, match plans, all that mustn't have mattered much. I'm guessing what made the key difference was match fitness. A repeat of the same settings produced +309.
The changes to the tactic of 'very attacking', 'shorter passing' and 'work ball into box' seemed to produce slightly better results, or at least they weren't worse, whereas some others obviously were.
Biggest premier league game win I saw was 23-0.
I realized that penalty taking, and other set pieces, for goalkeeper has 0 weighting. This is potentially useful. I've said before that set piece attributes are not worth picking for. But you may as well select a goalkeeper with decent penalty taking and composure (which there are quite a few of), and make them your penalty taker. It will also have the satisfying effect of making your GK a goalscorer.
Gracolas said: Anyhow, does anyone know how to import the schedules? I have made a training schedule based on the screenshots in this thread but then i cant load it to every week
Yes.
Go to change the schedule.
Click create new schedule
Top left select an existing type of schedule
Choose custom schedules
Bottom of that is load schedule
Load it, then select and save it.
You'll then likely have to advance a day for it to "save" in the system
Then you should be able to go back into the calendar select a custom schedule and your imported one will be there.
It's honestly way trickier than it used to be, but it's doable.
Deleting schedules works similarly so your custom schedule don't pile up.
Bill W said: Yes.
Go to change the schedule.
Click create new schedule
Top left select an existing type of schedule
Choose custom schedules
Bottom of that is load schedule
Load it, then select and save it.
You'll then likely have to advance a day for it to "save" in the system
Then you should be able to go back into the calendar select a custom schedule and your imported one will be there.
It's honestly way trickier than it used to be, but it's doable.
Deleting schedules works similarly so your custom schedule don't pile up.
Two things about this. 1) it only works for the first team, SI confirms that general training is not under our control for u21, u18 etc. you can change individual training and intensity but no commitment yet that si brings back ability to edit general training. 2) sometimes advancing time isn’t enough, you may have to completely exit the game and restart it before the custom schedule shows up.
OMG! I cant bother with that... Do you guys know if SI is planning to fix this in the near future?
Great guide but I just got a couple of questions about the attribute filters. Bear in mind that I don't have Genie Scout so I can't see the hidden attributes.
You got
Shortlist filter
Meta tactic filter
Glance filter
Ideal player
and soon an In depth filter
The stats is so different in all of them so I kinda get a bit lost of which to pick from.
Should my striker have these stats:
(Shortlist filter)
Acceleration/Pace 12 min
Anticipation/Concentration/Consistency/Dribbling 8 min
Determination/Work Rate 6 min
or (Meta tactic)
8+ OffBall/Tack/Aggro/Ant/Pass/Tech/Dec/Team/Vis/Con/Brave/Work/Bal/Strength
8+ Drib DC/PF-ST
or (Glance filter)
8+ Pace/Acc
10+ mentals
12+ relevant technicals (drib, long, tack, cross, fin, etc.)
or (Ideal player)
Physicals ~8-20 (8-14 before training)
20 Pace/Acc
14 Bal
12 Jump (20 DC/PF-ST?)
12 Sta (14 DL/DR/DM)
11 Agil (18 DL/DR/DM)
9 Nat
8 Strength
Mentals ~8-13 (8-12 before training)
13 Ant/Con
12 Comp/OffBall/Work/Det/Aggro
12 Brave (8 DL/DR/DM)
10 Vis/Team/Dec
8 Pos
Technicals ~8-12 (8-14 before training)
12 Drib/Tech/Touch
12 Fin AML/AMR/ST (6 DL/DR/DC/DM)
12 Head (6 DL/DR/DM)
10 Long
10 Pass (6 DL/DR)
9 Cross
8 Tack (12 DC)
8 Mark (6 DL/DR/DM)
Hiddens & Misc ~1-12
6 Pen
6 Corner
4 Free Kick
I really want to try out this method so I just want to kinda get it right. But it seems like my striker would be something like this if I got this right.
Age max 22, preferably only Striker position thats dark green.
Good Professionalism
Acceleration/Pace 14 min
Bal 12 min
Ant/Con 11 min
Fin/Head/Comp/OffBall/Work/Det/Aggro/Brave/Jump/Sta/Agil/Drib/Tech/Touch 10 min
Long/Pass/Vis/Team/Dec 9 min
Cross/Tack/Mark/Pos/Nat/Strenght 8 min
and preferably low on the rest of the stats like Pen/Corner/Free Kick etc..
Am I doing this right or am I dead wrong? Haha!
Thanks again for the good contribution.
MeanOnSunday said: Two things about this. 1) it only works for the first team, SI confirms that general training is not under our control for u21, u18 etc. you can change individual training and intensity but no commitment yet that si brings back ability to edit general training. 2) sometimes advancing time isn’t enough, you may have to completely exit the game and restart it before the custom schedule shows up.
you can put them all in your main squad so they get the training benefits and choose make available for U18s
Trappkjeller said: I really want to try out this method so I just want to kinda get it right. But it seems like my striker would be something like this if I got this right.
Age max 22, preferably only Striker position thats dark green.
Good Professionalism
Acceleration/Pace 14 min
Bal 12 min
Ant/Con 11 min
Fin/Head/Comp/OffBall/Work/Det/Aggro/Brave/Jump/Sta/Agil/Drib/Tech/Touch 10 min
Long/Pass/Vis/Team/Dec 9 min
Cross/Tack/Mark/Pos/Nat/Strenght 8 min
and preferably low on the rest of the stats like Pen/Corner/Free Kick etc..
Am I doing this right or am I dead wrong? Haha!
So what I wrote is the nitty gritty of it all, but really you can reduce it to these general principles:
1. It doesn't matter much what player you sign, because even a low PA 8 pace/acc player can still become a beast with HarvestGreen22's training regimes.
2. What will matter is training progress rate. So sign young players with at least decent professionalism and give them 15-30 matches/season or loan them out.
3. If you want extra performance and/or more rounded players, sign players with mid/high mentals/technicals to begin with. These mostly stagnate or drop with HarvestGreen22 training.
4. Sign players with low 'decisions'. 'Decisions' is a very costly attribute in terms of CA for all positions, yet it's performance impact is negligible. Low decisions frees up CA for better attributes like pace/acc/drib/jump.
5. Sign 'natural' (20) position players only. They have the equivalent of a starting +2 pace advantage over 'accomplished' (18) players, and 18 cannot even be later trained to 20.
6. Try to sign or train up players in line with the ~140 PA ideal attribute templates if really want to optimize things.
7. Avoid dirty players. Worry less about consistency, injury proneness, set pieces. Get a captain GK.
So let's look at 2 examples:
Both of these players will do good when paired with HarvestGreen22 training, but if I had the choice I would choose the second player because he has decent to strong starting technicals/mentals, whereas the first player will always be stuck with his ~3 long shots and whatnot.
Neither player would pass your filter, and this is why you need to be careful about setting filter attributes too high or having too many. If you do use a filter, something as low and simple as 8 pace/acc min can be enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, then just do an overall visual judgement of the attributes.
One last question
Are U-18 leagues or custom made friendly tournaments enough matches for development? Or does the player have to play in the senior team’s league instead?
Sanfierro said: One last question
Are U-18 leagues or custom made friendly tournaments enough matches for development? Or does the player have to play in the senior team’s league instead?
For age 14-18, no matches will cap growth at ~60% (~12 CA/season). 20-30 matches ~20 CA/season.
For age 19-20, no matches will cap growth at ~35% (~5 CA/season). 20-30 matches ~14 CA/season.
For age 21-26, no matches will cap growth at near 0% (0 CA). 20-30 matches ~12 CA/season.
For GK, no matches is viable 14-20, but growth will be capped at ~20-35% throughout.
Source: EBFM
For age 14-18, u18/u23 friendlies are worth ~75% of proper senior matches.
For age 19-20, it's ~64%.
For age 21-23, it's ~50%.
For age 24-26, it's ~30%.
At all ages, senior friendlies are actually a bit worse than u18/u23 friendlies.
So u18/u23 matches are fine up to age 18, even 20 is ok, but 21+ you should loan them out even if it's to a team with poor training facilities. If you can play your best youth player(s) every match in your first team, do so even at age 14.
Source: EBFM
Match winning rate does not matter at all for development
Source: EBFM
Subbing players in after 70th minute may actually make growth worse than no appearance, possibly due to foregone training. A crucial point I'll make here is that the game counts cumulative minutes played, not appearances.
Source: EBFM
For age 14-18, u18/u23/II squad placement is ~95% of senior placement.
For age 19-23, it's ~90%.
For age 24-26, it's ~55%.
I didn't look into what is going here, but I can only suspect it's due to difference in training rather than the squad placement itself.
Source: EBFM
As you can see, EBFM's videos have a ton of gold in them that isn't immediately obvious. I also recommend watching the second half of this video for anyone who wants all the precise detail on a bunch of other factors affecting player development. I'm surprised it only has 900 views still.
tam1236 said: Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining.
sorry but nobody is talking about a game having a meta (meta = some attributes performing a little above their "paygrade). Here we are talking about a game where more than 2/3 of its attributes are literally not working at all. And therefore we have a game that's lying to you because it creates this illusion of roles and duties and attributes that are needed for them etc. think about all these small interactions "he doesn't read the game that well" when in reality "decisions" and "positioning" basically don't even exist. In this game a playmaker doesn't need passing and technique or flair and vision and decisions. He only needs speed. Does that sound right to you?
Plus, the game tells you he needs passing.
(just as an example).
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: So what I wrote is the nitty gritty of it all, but really you can reduce it to these general principles:
1. It doesn't matter much what player you sign, because even a low PA 8 pace/acc player can still become a beast with HarvestGreen22's training regimes.
2. What will matter is training progress rate. So sign young players with at least decent professionalism and give them 15-30 matches/season or loan them out.
3. If you want extra performance and/or more rounded players, sign players with mid/high mentals/technicals to begin with. These mostly stagnate or drop with HarvestGreen22 training.
4. Sign players with low 'decisions'. 'Decisions' is a very costly attribute in terms of CA for all positions, yet it's performance impact is negligible. Low decisions frees up CA for better attributes like pace/acc/drib/jump.
5. Sign 'natural' (20) position players only. They have the equivalent of a starting +2 pace advantage over 'accomplished' (18) players, and 18 cannot even be later trained to 20.
6. Try to sign or train up players in line with the ~140 PA ideal attribute templates if really want to optimize things.
7. Avoid dirty players. Worry less about consistency, injury proneness, set pieces. Get a captain GK.
So let's look at 2 examples:
Both of these players will do good when paired with HarvestGreen22 training, but if I had the choice I would choose the second player because he has decent to strong starting technicals/mentals, whereas the first player will always be stuck with his ~3 long shots and whatnot.
Neither player would pass your filter, and this is why you need to be careful about setting filter attributes too high or having too many. If you do use a filter, something as low and simple as 8 pace/acc min can be enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, then just do an overall visual judgement of the attributes.
Thank you for the input! I will try to creat some monster players using these methods!
I did a test of dribbling specifically. HarvestGreen22 tested dribbling individually, and found it's the most important mental/technical attribute, with +8.2% win rate 12 > 18 drib; +33.5 goals 10 > 20 drib. But we don't know if that's still the case if the player already has high physicals, plus it's worth verifying the claim, so I did two types of tests:
8 vs 20 drib, with 20 pace/acc/jump + 8 other attributes
8 drib:
+52, 83
+77, 90
+67, 92 (came 2nd)
+83, 92
20 drib:
+107, 97
+99, 95
+84, 97
+104, 100
Overall result: +30% goals, +10% points
-------------
140 PA 'ideal' templates with 8 drib and freed up CA reassigned randomly to other attributes vs 10-18 drib in my templates. I consider this test a more realistic indication of what you will get if you favor or disfavor dribbling.
8 drib:
+127, 104
+110, 106
+119, 102
10-18 drib:
+121, 107
+146, 107
Overall result: +13% goals, +3% points
--------------
So dribbling is quite significant, even with high physicals.
Note that my tests for this were poorly controlled due to laziness, but I feel it's adequate as a general indication. So it might be +20% or +40% rather than +30% say, but it's clearly a sizable difference. Maybe in the future I will do some more proper testing, so I can present it alongside results of other attribute combos or whatnot.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: 1. It doesn't matter much what player you sign, because even a low PA 8 pace/acc player can still become a beast with HarvestGreen22's training regimes.
)
2. What will matter is training progress rate. So sign young players with at least decent professionalism and give them 15-30 matches/season or loan them out.
3. If you want extra performance and/or more rounded players, sign players with mid/high mentals/technicals to begin with. These mostly stagnate or drop with HarvestGreen22 training.
5. Sign 'natural' (20) position players only. They have the equivalent of a starting +2 pace advantage over 'accomplished' (18) players, and 18 cannot even be later trained to 20.
6. Try to sign or train up players in line with the ~140 PA ideal attribute templates if really want to optimize things.
7. Avoid dirty players. Worry less about consistency, injury proneness, set pieces. Get a captain GK.
(...)
, something as low and simple as 8 pace/acc min can be enough to separate the wheat from the chaff,
1. As far as I can see good physical progress can be observed at u19 players. If You buy 20 yo player with pace/acc 8 You lose your money.
What's more if You have money to buy 140 PA young players there's no need to risk with very slow (speed 8) 18-20 yo players (BTW if you don't cheat with GS You don't know CA/PA
2. I would say determination is in a way more important because I dont remember players with professionalism 6-7, and not talking about less (I always try to search minimum in my teams for my information) but determination 2-3 is quite often in lower leagues - and drastically slower youngster progress - there is a hope for such a player but if you are not desperate dont risk with him.
5. You can change natural position and reach a new one to level 20 . Especially if You have a good newgen playing as CB with aerial reach ~9 you should do it. Apart from everything else aerial coaching doesnt work good.
6. If (IF!) You have money - why not.
7. Avoid players with low mental - concentration, compassion, determination have a great impact and are really hard to improve. From my experience GK with low consistency is a fail. Injury proneness IS important if You dont have good subs - on the other hand a game is buggy and player with this attribute 5 can have (in 4 years time) more injuries then the one with 15 - but statistically it is important, though You dont see these numbers without GS.
And maybe I'm wrong , but I have an impression that in FM24 loaning above-average young players to lower leagues doesnt work very good because their progress is capped by the league level.
tam1236 said: 1. As far as I can see good physical progress can be observed at u19 players. If You buy 20 yo player with pace/acc 8 You lose your money.
)
What's more if You have money to buy 140 PA young players there's no need to risk with very slow (speed 8) 18-20 yo players (BTW if you don't cheat with GS You don't know CA/PA
2. I would say determination is in a way more important because I dont remember players with professionalism 6-7, and not talking about less (I always try to search minimum in my teams for my information) but determination 2-3 is quite often in lower leagues - and drastically slower youngster progress - there is a hope for such a player but if you are not desperate dont risk with him.
5. You can change natural position and reach a new one to level 20 . Especially if You have a good newgen playing as CB with aerial reach ~9 you should do it. Apart from everything else aerial coaching doesnt work good.
6. If (IF!) You have money - why not.
7. Avoid players with low mental - concentration, compassion, determination have a great impact and are really hard to improve. From my experience GK with low consistency is a fail. Injury proneness IS important if You dont have good subs - on the other hand a game is buggy and player with this attribute 5 can have (in 4 years time) more injuries then the one with 15 - but statistically it is important, though You dont see these numbers without GS.
And maybe I'm wrong , but I have an impression that in FM24 loaning above-average young players to lower leagues doesnt work very good because their progress is capped by the league level.
Mostly agree except a few small things
Determination 3 > 15 is equivalent to professionalism 5 > 13. But also 20 Determination = 14 professionalism, and determination 6 does most of it. (source). I do say on my initial post to get 10+ determination for optimal, but because CA growth is capped each year you only really need say half the optimal, so having 13 professionalism alone is probably enough to do the job.
Also there was another reason professionalism is better, I can only vaguely remember now; I think it was that professionalism allows the player to develop even if they don't end up getting match experience.
I may be mistaken but I don't think you can train player position to 20, it can be 'natural' but it will still be 18. That said, I was doing some more testing of 18 vs 20 and it seemed to have negligible effect. I was testing it in the first place because I figured it's likely 15 > 20 isn't going to be linear. I'll have to run it a few more times to be sure there is no significant effect of 18 > 20.
Pretty sure you can get a new position to 20/20 unless they changed something in FM26, quite easily actually. New position might trigger some attribute relocation though due to different CA weights.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I may be mistaken but I don't think you can train player position to 20, it can be 'natural' but it will still be 18.
You can - tested many times. Especially at youngsters and with close positions. Of course it depends on versatility hidden attribute.
In theory professionalism is better - somebody on yt tested that there is no chance to make a good player with low prof. and sometimes it happens when a determination is low. But irl players with really low profess. are very, very few and very, very far between in FM base and in newgen. Balotelli is a lonely knight. And low determination you can see quite often
tam1236 said: You can - tested many times. Especially at youngsters and with close positions. Of course it depends on versatility hidden attribute.
In theory professionalism is better - somebody on yt tested that there is no chance to make a good player with low prof. and sometimes it happens when a determination is low. But irl players with really low profess. are very, very few and very, very far between in FM base and in newgen. Balotelli is a lonely knight. And low determination you can see quite often
Oh Balotelli, I remember him. Determination. Professionalism. Not sure.
Balotelli and the training bib
I can never forget this
Can anyone explain this ME, I lost a home match and got knocked out of FA cup I have 16-3 shots on target and lose 0-3 ????
max 737 said: Can anyone explain this ME, I lost a home match and got knocked out of FA cup I have 16-3 shots on target and lose 0-3 ????
You got FMed. There isn't much what you can do about it, statistics is just annoying. If you have 5% chance to lose a match you dominated, it means you will lose it once every 20 tries, on average.
ZaZ said: You got FMed. There isn't much what you can do about it, statistics is just annoying. If you have 5% chance to lose a match you dominated, it means you will lose it once every 20 tries, on average.
that's true, very well said
Sorry for posting out of context, but any idea who are some of the best GK in FM 26?