testme said: 4 months report on training. Using training schedule i posted a page or two back. Just confirm it works on fm26
DC and Inside forward All others got upgrade too Expand
I would say when looking at attribute growth not to focus on the arrows but rather the line graph i think they are only representing short term progress and not actual growth and can change quite quickly from week to week even when selecting " all time" this is different from what it was in FM24, in FM24 actual growth would appear with an upward arrow and the amount it had grown next to it, here is an example from a save i was doing on FM24, we can clearly see with Amad when selecting "all time" that attributes that have had growth have an upward arrow and the number of growth next to it but in my FM26 example Ngwashi has clearly had attributes Acceleration & Stamina grow by 2 but on his attributes profile they both have just a little upward arrow and no growth number next to them like they would in FM24, also can see his his long throws have grown by only 1 but it has an even more upward arrow than the other 2 attributes so i don't think the arrows give a good visual representation of growth, in my previous post i showed 2 players that clearly had attribute growth on the "all time" line chart but didn't even have any arrow next to the attribute. And looking at your first picture can see lots of nice looking arrows but it doesn't actually look like any attributes have changed in the line chart. I think they need to sort this out and make it like it was in FM24.
Robbo84FM said: I would say when looking at attribute growth not to focus on the arrows but rather the line graph i think they are only representing short term progress and not actual growth and can change quite quickly from week to week even when selecting " all time" this is different from what it was in FM24, in FM24 actual growth would appear with an upward arrow and the amount it had grown next to it, here is an example from a save i was doing on FM24, we can clearly see with Amad when selecting "all time" that attributes that have had growth have an upward arrow and the number of growth next to it but in my FM26 example Ngwashi has clearly had attributes Acceleration & Stamina grow by 2 but on his attributes profile they both have just a little upward arrow and no growth number next to them like they would in FM24, also can see his his long throws have grown by only 1 but it has an even more upward arrow than the other 2 attributes so i don't think the arrows give a good visual representation of growth, in my previous post i showed 2 players that clearly had attribute growth on the "all time" line chart but didn't even have any arrow next to the attribute. And looking at your first picture can see lots of nice looking arrows but it doesn't actually look like any attributes have changed in the line chart. I think they need to sort this out and make it like it was in FM24. Expand
Dude stats actually went up. His CA went up. You are honestly unnecessarily imagining things differently. He went from acc 13 to acc 15 everything in there went sky up.
This are the stats 1 month before. I do not have earlier save.
In case you didnt figure by now. Stats are NOT!! 1-20. Read about it.
Important Read!
1–200 Internal Range: The game engine uses an underlying 1–200 scale for attributes. The 1–20 figure we see is essentially just the first two digits of that internal value (e.g., an internal 155–164 is displayed as a '16'.
Decimals in Progress: Players actually have "decimal" attributes. Training screens often show progress curves that represent these micro-gains before they are large enough to "flip" the visible number from, for example, 14 to 15.
testme said: Dude stats actually went up. His CA went up. You are honestly unnecessarily imagining things differently. He went from acc 13 to acc 15 everything in there went sky up.
This are the stats 1 month before. I do not have earlier save.
In case you didnt figure by now. Stats are NOT!! 1-20. Read about it.
Important Read!
1–200 Internal Range: The game engine uses an underlying 1–200 scale for attributes. The 1–20 figure we see is essentially just the first two digits of that internal value (e.g., an internal 155–164 is displayed as a '16'.
Decimals in Progress: Players actually have "decimal" attributes. Training screens often show progress curves that represent these micro-gains before they are large enough to "flip" the visible number from, for example, 14 to 15. Expand
Yeah dude i do know this i said your first picture didn't look like any of the attributes had changed in the line graph not this player, this player was the 2nd picture and clearly had growth, i think we've got players confused haha plus my point still stands about the arrows and the overall visual of individual attribute growth in fm26 it needs to be like it was in fm24 it's way easier to see what's grown and by how much.
Robbo84FM said: Yeah dude i do know this i said your first picture didn't look like any of the attributes had changed in the line graph not this player, this player was the 2nd picture and clearly had growth, i think we've got players confused haha plus my point still stands about the arrows and the overall visual of individual attribute growth in fm26 it needs to be like it was in fm24 it's way easier to see what's grown and by how much. Expand
Arrows shows increase because there was an increase. But its not always full number because its decimals...
harvestgreen22 said: In the training schedule, If you can't find it, I'll then set the game to English and take screenshots. Expand I just don't see any match arrangement in a training schedule. Only I can see is arrange friendly in a calendar.
lucailvotto said: Anyway, I still can’t understand how you manage to get physical monsters… at best I can only get a few players up to 16. in fm24 Expand More (maybe not 20/20) is fairly possible but not in 3-4 years time as for me. Even when buying fast, young players. Do you - I mean harvestgreen22 for example - edit coaches or training objects or prof level?
Been following this thread right from the start with a lot of interest and sometimes a lot of confusion. Thank you to @harvestgreen22 and everyone else who has contributed. I've settled on using what seems to be accepted as the meta wich is Quickness x 1 Attacking x 1 Match Practice x 1 and extra recovery using the exploit. I've seen good growth from my youngsters especially Acceleration and Pace as one would expect. I'm doing a youth only save and a lot of my squad are now fully developed. So, it got me thinking. Has anyone done any research or have any thoughts on preparing for matches and how training might improve the chance of winning for the next game? I've been using a version of the default 'big game prep' which includes attacking and defensive shadowplay, set pieces and team bonding. I'm finding in big champions league games in the latter knockout phase I just can't win. And this is often against teams who are not theoretically as strong as league opponents who I can beat easily. I suspect the game just won't let you win the UEFA Champions League as a smaller club for the first four of five seasons you're in it.(That old chestnut about scripted outcomes again). I have won it previously but it takes 7-10 years of struggle. At least that has been my experience across a number of different saves over the years. Any thoughts appreciated.
toiletfootball said: I suspect the game just won't let you win the UEFA Champions League as a smaller club for the first four of five seasons you're in it.(That old chestnut about scripted outcomes again) ... At least that has been my experience across a number of different saves over the years. Any thoughts appreciated. Expand I have the same impression. Every time players all of the sudden play like a bunch of twats no matter what You will say before a match and no matter how they played a few days before and will play a few days after.
Your tests are always incredibly helpful in planning my training. Thank you so much. I'm curious to see how effective this plan is: [Quickness] + [Match Practice] + [Attacking] x2 + [Double Intensity] + [Additional Focus Quickness]. I can't find the training plan I suggested in Excel. Thank you as always.
harvestgreen22 said: The "arrow" indicates whether there is an increase or decrease, but the decimal part cannot be seen (so specific testing leagues need to be used for testing).
This is the average value. If you look at the tables of those sub-branch numbers further down, they are the data sources.
For example, "dribbling increased by 1.06", this is the average value of 100 non-goalkeeper players under the same testing conditions.
" Ariel defence mostly focuses on the defensive unit so it would make sense defenders would see a boost in Concentration/Positioning but attacking players wouldn't?"
You are correct. Take "[Aerial Defence]" as an example. You can take a look at page 62 of Excel 1. The players of the defense team did indeed receive more in "Concentration, Positioning, Technique, Marking, Heading".
And because I calculated the average value, this means that inevitably some players will actually receive attributes that are different from this value.
Why didn't I separate each position and separate the results of the two groups? This is mainly because
1. If each tactic needs to display multiple positions//values of multiple groups, the Excel page would become very chaotic and large
2. Usually, a training schedule does not only have one separate training schedule, for example, "Sequence Number 187", "[Physical][Quickness][Chance Conversion][Attacking]" In this case, the attack group and defense group of [Chance Conversion] are different. However, this training schedule includes not only it but also three other items, so the difference has been significantly reduced.
3. As I discovered in another post, the way attributes work in the game is not like normal logic. For instance, according to "normal real-world logic", I would think that only forwards need "Finishing, Longshot". for a defender, according to "normal real-world logic", there is almost no chance for him to take a shot. At the end of the season, his shot statistics are extremely low.
however:in game , The "Finishing, Longshot" of the defenders also contributed to the team's goal-scoring.
So I think we should first measure the overall training effectiveness based on an average of people, and then select out the "good ones". If one wants to "choose the better from the better ones", Then, within this "good group", make the distinction between the attack team and the defense team. Expand
Defenders take shots often after corners or other set pieces, so when they shoot, they are often in a good position to score.
Has the optimal schedule now changed? I see 186 mentioned a few times. Would this be more suited for a side trying to compete for the Premier League whilst still attempting to develop youngsters?
toiletfootball said: Been following this thread right from the start with a lot of interest and sometimes a lot of confusion. Thank you to @harvestgreen22 and everyone else who has contributed. I've settled on using what seems to be accepted as the meta wich is Quickness x 1 Attacking x 1 Match Practice x 1 and extra recovery using the exploit. I've seen good growth from my youngsters especially Acceleration and Pace as one would expect. I'm doing a youth only save and a lot of my squad are now fully developed. So, it got me thinking. Has anyone done any research or have any thoughts on preparing for matches and how training might improve the chance of winning for the next game? I've been using a version of the default 'big game prep' which includes attacking and defensive shadowplay, set pieces and team bonding. I'm finding in big champions league games in the latter knockout phase I just can't win. And this is often against teams who are not theoretically as strong as league opponents who I can beat easily. I suspect the game just won't let you win the UEFA Champions League as a smaller club for the first four of five seasons you're in it.(That old chestnut about scripted outcomes again). I have won it previously but it takes 7-10 years of struggle. At least that has been my experience across a number of different saves over the years. Any thoughts appreciated. Expand
Champions League is a knockout competition with the highest level of competition, so of course this will be the most difficult to win. If you have any players who don’t like big games, can’t handle pressure, are inconsistent, then this is the maximum test for them. I have never seen anything suggesting the game behaves in an unfair way. When your reputation is low you often have the advantage that better opponents will rotate players and be very aggressive. When your reputation is higher they play their best players and play more carefully at the back.
MeanOnSunday said: Champions League is a knockout competition with the highest level of competition, so of course this will be the most difficult to win. If you have any players who don’t like big games, can’t handle pressure, are inconsistent, then this is the maximum test for them. Expand But we are talking about situation where you easily and regularly win with same level opponents in your league. And your players don't have big mental problems like all team pressure 1-4 , important matches 2.
Thanks for the replies @MeanOnSunday@tam1236 Sorry all if hijacking this training thread a bit off topic. I just find this area interesting. Yes I don't really believe the game behaves in an unfair way or is scripted. I just think there is an underlying factor 'under the hood' which makes the CL difficult. I never play with big teams so I don't know if you can win the CL regularly in the first season with, say, Real Madrid. But building up smaller teams I've never won it until I've had at least 7 attempts in the league phase. Sometimes I use Genie so I know my team is better and should win but doesn't. I pay a great deal of attention to player personalities and I cull those who have low ratings in pressure consistency and important matches. Even big game players will suddenly play like idiots sometimes. If I stick at it I eventually can win, but one day I'd like to do it faster:-)
toiletfootball said: I never play with big teams so I don't know if you can win the CL regularly in the first season with, say, Real Madrid. Expand Played once and with Chelsea it was not so easy not to win CL 3-4 goals ahead was normal result in last stages - quarter, semi and final.
Some updates . This week is my very busy working day week, I'll sort out the previous Excel file and send it out, then I'll go to sleep. and didn't have time to reply the new thing.
Mark said: Could you try Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Defending, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence, Chance Creation, Chance Conversion.
This is my latest Training Schedule and I am getting good improvement.
Thanks Expand
ZaZ said: Have you tried optimizing the roles trained? Sometimes I need to train players to a new position, and it is possible to pick roles that focus on the desirable attributes since they are only used to define attributes trained.
Personally, my training schedule is: - 2x Physical + Match Practice (for two matches a week) - 2x Physical + 2x Match Practice + Attack + Defend + Set Pieces (one match in the week) - Quickness focus - Everyone trains roles with good highlighted attributes for their position
I don't know exactly how that compares to the ones in the list. Probably worse pace and acceleration potential, but I usually prefer to profit more on sales to be able to afford more high quality fast young players, allowing me to reach 18-20 pace and acceleration anyway. I add set pieces because I believe (and that might be just my fantasy) that players score more from set pieces when they train that session (again, I didn't test this, it is just my observation, which might be very wrong).
Anyway, I would like to know if someone can test if Set Pieces actually have any influence in goals from set pieces (using some quality set piece routine, obviously). I would also like to suggest, if possible, to post pictures of the expected resulting player with each routine, starting from a fast young player (like 12 pace and acceleration at the age of 16, or 14 of each at 18, which is pretty realistic). I think it would be good because, sometimes, having a player with 19 in pace and acceleration and good values in other attributes can be better than a speedster with 20 pace and acceleration and 1 in the rest, making many of the training schedules judged "inferior" become viable instead. Expand
dor said: Your tests are always incredibly helpful in planning my training. Thank you so much. I'm curious to see how effective this plan is: [Quickness] + [Match Practice] + [Attacking] x2 + [Double Intensity] + [Additional Focus Quickness]. I can't find the training plan I suggested in Excel. Thank you as always. Expand
excel 5:
211 Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution
212 2x Physical + 2x Match Practice + Attack + Defend + Set Pieces
It looks like maybe the best schedule for all the team (!) is 1xGK unit : One on Ones or Distribution (problem with reflexes) great pace, acc, good aerial reach and dribbling>0 That's little bit strange, because a description of this unit, like all GK units, is: GK do 1-on-1 and the rest of the team do role_specific_schedule. But maybe I'm wrong and this one has other system, and of course "reality" is not equal FM description .
Did You set roles for players for this tests ? Or left it empy (from position)
I don't know if coaches have been mentioned here at all but if doing the extreme physical growth strategy of all rest for the U18 team no coaches are actually doing anything apart from the fitness coaches so would it therefore not be worth even having any other coaches and just focus on getting a good number of the best fitness coaches possible?
@harvestgreen22 Out of interest could you run some tests where there is quickness in the actual schedule, for example the the recent quickness, match practice, 2xattacking. But instead of quickness as the individual focus have it on aerial? i would like to see how much jumping reach can potentially be gained in comparison with how much acc and pace you lose
harvestgreen22 said: Some updates . This week is my very busy working day week, I'll sort out the previous Excel file and send it out, then I'll go to sleep. and didn't have time to reply the new thing.
Thank you for testing my routine, now I have a better idea of what I will be testing based on the table. My plan is to try 79 [Endurance] for pre-season (during something between three and six months), followed by either 138 [Physical][Quickness][Resistance][Tactical], 159 [Physical][Quickness][Resistance][Transition Restrict] or 150 [Attacking]x6 in the remaining season. The goal is to use 79 to rebalance attributes, followed by another routine to achieve a focused CA growth to reach top speed with high CA.
harvestgreen22 said: Some updates . This week is my very busy working day week, I'll sort out the previous Excel file and send it out, then I'll go to sleep. and didn't have time to reply the new thing.
harvestgreen22 said: excel(part 5, the newest ) Expand What is "Game preset training 1" in this xls sheet?
I connected all attributes (not only main but even not important) with level of importance , using https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/ - just took 0,1 of grow 1-20 as 1 point (I know it's not linear), make some excel magic and most effective, when all attributes weighted, are (all quickness focus): 1. Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution 2. Game preset training 1 - I don't know what it is 3. [Physical][Quickness][Attacking]x3 4. [Quickness][Attacking][Transition Restrict] 5. [Physical][Match Practice][Chance Conversion]
Robbo84FM said: just focus on getting a good number of the best fitness coaches possible? Expand Not so easy. As far as I know You get just best coach level and work level and that's all . If you have 100 coaches with 4 stars you are worse then one four-and-half star coach assisted by one-star nobody.
I made some quick tests alternating three different routines (79, 150 and 159) with quickness focus and double intensity, and results were pretty good. First is Rebalance (Endurance x1), then Growth (Attacking x6), then Focus (Physical + Resistance + Quickness + Transition - Restrict), alternating them so they get equal time during the season. I think I will settle for that since it allows me to max speed of initially fast players, while getting a good CA for transfers and using those players.
P.S.: Made some extra tests with just Rebalance + Growth, and results were very similar, so I will keep just those two for simplicity.
Mark said: I think I am getting closer to the best balance with your tests so thank you so much. Here is the next iteration:
Handling, Shot Stopping, Physical x 2, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and One on Ones
Once again reducing the Decisions component and increasing the Acc and Pace
If you could test this when you get a chance i would very much appreciate it
Thanks Expand
Try combining different routines to get what you want. For example, 79 (Endurance x1) gives a good boost in Pace and Acceleration, with very low Decisions gain, for very little CA. If you mix both equally, results might average to values you want.
Here is my Hoffenheim squad. As you can see the training schedules have been to good use and the pace has clearly become quite good on most of my players. The jumping reach though is another thing, it seems to me alot more inconsistent. This has made me wonder if you guys have tried the schedules in actual saves and achieved more players that me that get fast, but also get their jumping reach. I've been thinking of trying to give every player aerial as a focus for half a season and half a season on quickness to see if i achieve a better balance on it. I will report back if i notice anything interesting. On the other hand i would love to see you guys using these schedules in actual saves and what results you achieve with it.
ZaZ said: I made some quick tests alternating three different routines (79, 150 and 159) with quickness focus and double intensity, and results were pretty good. First is Rebalance (Endurance x1), then Growth (Attacking x6), then Focus (Physical + Resistance + Quickness + Transition - Restrict), alternating them so they get equal time during the season. I think I will settle for that since it allows me to max speed of initially fast players, while getting a good CA for transfers and using those players.
P.S.: Made some extra tests with just Rebalance + Growth, and results were very similar, so I will keep just those two for simplicity. Expand
Hi. So you just alternate these three workouts? 1-2-3-1-2-3? Thanks.
GabBau said: Hi. So you just alternate these three workouts? 1-2-3-1-2-3? Thanks. Expand
Something like that. I am actually using 1-2-1-2-1-2 now, but results are barely the same. Keep in mind that assumes double intensity at high condition, and focus on quickness. Also, should remove recovery sessions. The idea is "1x endurance", then "6x attacking", with full rest after matches.
Note: Check their table if you want to customize your training for some specific goal.
tam1236 said: You mean to arrange friendly?
In the training schedule, If you can't find it, I'll then set the game to English and take screenshots.
harvestgreen22 said: In the training schedule, If you can't find it, I'll then set the game to English and take screenshots.
Anyway, I still can’t understand how you manage to get physical monsters… at best I can only get a few players up to 16. in fm24
testme said: 4 months report on training.
Using training schedule i posted a page or two back.
Just confirm it works on fm26
DC and Inside forward
All others got upgrade too
I would say when looking at attribute growth not to focus on the arrows but rather the line graph i think they are only representing short term progress and not actual growth and can change quite quickly from week to week even when selecting " all time" this is different from what it was in FM24, in FM24 actual growth would appear with an upward arrow and the amount it had grown next to it, here is an example from a save i was doing on FM24, we can clearly see with Amad when selecting "all time" that attributes that have had growth have an upward arrow and the number of growth next to it but in my FM26 example Ngwashi has clearly had attributes Acceleration & Stamina grow by 2 but on his attributes profile they both have just a little upward arrow and no growth number next to them like they would in FM24, also can see his his long throws have grown by only 1 but it has an even more upward arrow than the other 2 attributes so i don't think the arrows give a good visual representation of growth, in my previous post i showed 2 players that clearly had attribute growth on the "all time" line chart but didn't even have any arrow next to the attribute. And looking at your first picture can see lots of nice looking arrows but it doesn't actually look like any attributes have changed in the line chart. I think they need to sort this out and make it like it was in FM24.
Robbo84FM said: I would say when looking at attribute growth not to focus on the arrows but rather the line graph i think they are only representing short term progress and not actual growth and can change quite quickly from week to week even when selecting " all time" this is different from what it was in FM24, in FM24 actual growth would appear with an upward arrow and the amount it had grown next to it, here is an example from a save i was doing on FM24, we can clearly see with Amad when selecting "all time" that attributes that have had growth have an upward arrow and the number of growth next to it but in my FM26 example Ngwashi has clearly had attributes Acceleration & Stamina grow by 2 but on his attributes profile they both have just a little upward arrow and no growth number next to them like they would in FM24, also can see his his long throws have grown by only 1 but it has an even more upward arrow than the other 2 attributes so i don't think the arrows give a good visual representation of growth, in my previous post i showed 2 players that clearly had attribute growth on the "all time" line chart but didn't even have any arrow next to the attribute. And looking at your first picture can see lots of nice looking arrows but it doesn't actually look like any attributes have changed in the line chart. I think they need to sort this out and make it like it was in FM24.
.
Dude stats actually went up.
His CA went up.
You are honestly unnecessarily imagining things differently.
He went from acc 13 to acc 15 everything in there went sky up.
This are the stats 1 month before.
I do not have earlier save.
In case you didnt figure by now. Stats are NOT!! 1-20.
Read about it.
Important Read!
1–200 Internal Range: The game engine uses an underlying 1–200 scale for attributes. The 1–20 figure we see is essentially just the first two digits of that internal value (e.g., an internal 155–164 is displayed as a '16'
Decimals in Progress: Players actually have "decimal" attributes. Training screens often show progress curves that represent these micro-gains before they are large enough to "flip" the visible number from, for example, 14 to 15.
testme said: Dude stats actually went up.
.
His CA went up.
You are honestly unnecessarily imagining things differently.
He went from acc 13 to acc 15 everything in there went sky up.
This are the stats 1 month before.
I do not have earlier save.
In case you didnt figure by now. Stats are NOT!! 1-20.
Read about it.
Important Read!
1–200 Internal Range: The game engine uses an underlying 1–200 scale for attributes. The 1–20 figure we see is essentially just the first two digits of that internal value (e.g., an internal 155–164 is displayed as a '16'
Decimals in Progress: Players actually have "decimal" attributes. Training screens often show progress curves that represent these micro-gains before they are large enough to "flip" the visible number from, for example, 14 to 15.
Yeah dude i do know this i said your first picture didn't look like any of the attributes had changed in the line graph not this player, this player was the 2nd picture and clearly had growth, i think we've got players confused haha plus my point still stands about the arrows and the overall visual of individual attribute growth in fm26 it needs to be like it was in fm24 it's way easier to see what's grown and by how much.
testme said: 4 months report on training.
Using training schedule i posted a page or two back.
Just confirm it works on fm26
DC and Inside forward
All others got upgrade too
Line 87 offers this programming: Attack Quickness Mathpractice 7 Recovery
The numbers seem good.
Robbo84FM said: Yeah dude i do know this i said your first picture didn't look like any of the attributes had changed in the line graph not this player, this player was the 2nd picture and clearly had growth, i think we've got players confused haha plus my point still stands about the arrows and the overall visual of individual attribute growth in fm26 it needs to be like it was in fm24 it's way easier to see what's grown and by how much.
Arrows shows increase because there was an increase. But its not always full number because its decimals...
They both started with 11-ish acceleration.
harvestgreen22 said: In the training schedule, If you can't find it, I'll then set the game to English and take screenshots.
I just don't see any match arrangement in a training schedule. Only I can see is arrange friendly in a calendar.
lucailvotto said: Anyway, I still can’t understand how you manage to get physical monsters… at best I can only get a few players up to 16. in fm24
More (maybe not 20/20) is fairly possible but not in 3-4 years time as for me. Even when buying fast, young players. Do you - I mean harvestgreen22 for example - edit coaches or training objects or prof level?
Been following this thread right from the start with a lot of interest and sometimes a lot of confusion. Thank you to @harvestgreen22 and everyone else who has contributed. I've settled on using what seems to be accepted as the meta wich is Quickness x 1 Attacking x 1 Match Practice x 1 and extra recovery using the exploit. I've seen good growth from my youngsters especially Acceleration and Pace as one would expect. I'm doing a youth only save and a lot of my squad are now fully developed. So, it got me thinking. Has anyone done any research or have any thoughts on preparing for matches and how training might improve the chance of winning for the next game? I've been using a version of the default 'big game prep' which includes attacking and defensive shadowplay, set pieces and team bonding. I'm finding in big champions league games in the latter knockout phase I just can't win. And this is often against teams who are not theoretically as strong as league opponents who I can beat easily. I suspect the game just won't let you win the UEFA Champions League as a smaller club for the first four of five seasons you're in it.(That old chestnut about scripted outcomes again). I have won it previously but it takes 7-10 years of struggle. At least that has been my experience across a number of different saves over the years. Any thoughts appreciated.
toiletfootball said: I suspect the game just won't let you win the UEFA Champions League as a smaller club for the first four of five seasons you're in it.(That old chestnut about scripted outcomes again) ... At least that has been my experience across a number of different saves over the years. Any thoughts appreciated.
I have the same impression. Every time players all of the sudden play like a bunch of twats no matter what You will say before a match and no matter how they played a few days before and will play a few days after.
Your tests are always incredibly helpful in planning my training.
Thank you so much.
I'm curious to see how effective this plan is: [Quickness] + [Match Practice] + [Attacking] x2 + [Double Intensity] + [Additional Focus Quickness].
I can't find the training plan I suggested in Excel.
Thank you as always.
harvestgreen22 said: The "arrow" indicates whether there is an increase or decrease, but the decimal part cannot be seen (so specific testing leagues need to be used for testing).
This is the average value. If you look at the tables of those sub-branch numbers further down, they are the data sources.
For example, "dribbling increased by 1.06", this is the average value of 100 non-goalkeeper players under the same testing conditions.
" Ariel defence mostly focuses on the defensive unit so it would make sense defenders would see a boost in Concentration/Positioning but attacking players wouldn't?"
You are correct.
Take "[Aerial Defence]" as an example. You can take a look at page 62 of Excel 1.
The players of the defense team did indeed receive more in "Concentration, Positioning, Technique, Marking, Heading".
And because I calculated the average value, this means that inevitably some players will actually receive attributes that are different from this value.
Why didn't I separate each position and separate the results of the two groups?
This is mainly because
1. If each tactic needs to display multiple positions//values of multiple groups, the Excel page would become very chaotic and large
2. Usually, a training schedule does not only have one separate training schedule, for example, "Sequence Number 187", "[Physical][Quickness][Chance Conversion][Attacking]"
In this case, the attack group and defense group of [Chance Conversion] are different. However, this training schedule includes not only it but also three other items, so the difference has been significantly reduced.
3. As I discovered in another post, the way attributes work in the game is not like normal logic.
For instance, according to "normal real-world logic", I would think that only forwards need "Finishing, Longshot".
for a defender, according to "normal real-world logic", there is almost no chance for him to take a shot. At the end of the season, his shot statistics are extremely low.
however:in game , The "Finishing, Longshot" of the defenders also contributed to the team's goal-scoring.
So I think we should first measure the overall training effectiveness based on an average of people, and then select out the "good ones".
If one wants to "choose the better from the better ones",
Then, within this "good group", make the distinction between the attack team and the defense team.
Defenders take shots often after corners or other set pieces, so when they shoot, they are often in a good position to score.
Sorry if this has already been identified and I've missed it but I am struggling to follow.
I was previously using a combination of the following as this layout made sense to me:
1.Extreme way to increase Physical class stats
[Rest]+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
or
[Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
2.Increase moderate levels of CA, as fewer invalid attributes as possible, and as many high value attributes as possible
[Quickness]+[Attacking Shadow Play]+[Recovery]x7+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
or
[Quickness]+[Attacking Direct]+[Recovery]x7+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
3. Add as much CA as possible, while fewer invalid attributes as possible, and as many high value attributes as possible
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
or
[Physical]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
Has the optimal schedule now changed? I see 186 mentioned a few times. Would this be more suited for a side trying to compete for the Premier League whilst still attempting to develop youngsters?
Thanks in advance
toiletfootball said: Been following this thread right from the start with a lot of interest and sometimes a lot of confusion. Thank you to @harvestgreen22 and everyone else who has contributed. I've settled on using what seems to be accepted as the meta wich is Quickness x 1 Attacking x 1 Match Practice x 1 and extra recovery using the exploit. I've seen good growth from my youngsters especially Acceleration and Pace as one would expect. I'm doing a youth only save and a lot of my squad are now fully developed. So, it got me thinking. Has anyone done any research or have any thoughts on preparing for matches and how training might improve the chance of winning for the next game? I've been using a version of the default 'big game prep' which includes attacking and defensive shadowplay, set pieces and team bonding. I'm finding in big champions league games in the latter knockout phase I just can't win. And this is often against teams who are not theoretically as strong as league opponents who I can beat easily. I suspect the game just won't let you win the UEFA Champions League as a smaller club for the first four of five seasons you're in it.(That old chestnut about scripted outcomes again). I have won it previously but it takes 7-10 years of struggle. At least that has been my experience across a number of different saves over the years. Any thoughts appreciated.
Champions League is a knockout competition with the highest level of competition, so of course this will be the most difficult to win. If you have any players who don’t like big games, can’t handle pressure, are inconsistent, then this is the maximum test for them. I have never seen anything suggesting the game behaves in an unfair way. When your reputation is low you often have the advantage that better opponents will rotate players and be very aggressive. When your reputation is higher they play their best players and play more carefully at the back.
MeanOnSunday said: Champions League is a knockout competition with the highest level of competition, so of course this will be the most difficult to win. If you have any players who don’t like big games, can’t handle pressure, are inconsistent, then this is the maximum test for them.
But we are talking about situation where you easily and regularly win with same level opponents in your league. And your players don't have big mental problems like all team pressure 1-4 , important matches 2.
Thanks for the replies @MeanOnSunday @tam1236
Sorry all if hijacking this training thread a bit off topic. I just find this area interesting.
Yes I don't really believe the game behaves in an unfair way or is scripted. I just think there is an underlying factor 'under the hood' which makes the CL difficult. I never play with big teams so I don't know if you can win the CL regularly in the first season with, say, Real Madrid. But building up smaller teams I've never won it until I've had at least 7 attempts in the league phase. Sometimes I use Genie so I know my team is better and should win but doesn't. I pay a great deal of attention to player personalities and I cull those who have low ratings in pressure consistency and important matches. Even big game players will suddenly play like idiots sometimes. If I stick at it I eventually can win, but one day I'd like to do it faster:-)
toiletfootball said: I never play with big teams so I don't know if you can win the CL regularly in the first season with, say, Real Madrid.
Played once and with Chelsea it was not so easy not to win CL
3-4 goals ahead was normal result in last stages - quarter, semi and final.
Some updates . This week is my very busy working day week, I'll sort out the previous Excel file and send it out, then I'll go to sleep. and didn't have time to reply the new thing.
excel(part 1 , old)
https://mega.nz/file/4UUUDKgC#NuyR8RDaNap2_e44yi9SS2cjTkGgo2dpTL33obiUWQE
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/pcRwnxi8
excel(part 2 , old)
https://mega.nz/file/QZNVgQzK#xOTiw1heWmVtIDRDDPiUZqzbBnqYAbVi14RYX0W3CoQ
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/NzTu56KH
excel(part 3, old)
https://mega.nz/file/8JlW2LKb#NZyQ-gdnlcXu3Iun8-l5I-_c7wRmikgAvjOZjEsTvCg
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/oa8Y2Z4U
excel(part 4, old)
https://mega.nz/file/dENF1KSK#gY0GO3Od_fALZ51UW_2dxLnAMnmlt0hkt01FVh9ZP50
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/ihxzDL9p
excel(part 5, the newest )
https://mega.nz/file/dAMBTTAD#qJSvz7gwU0o-Yo3ecffCsMEBLiOesQe_7bwiCR_DGXw
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/pcYTkHrZ
Mark said: Could you try Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Defending, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence, Chance Creation, Chance Conversion.
This is my latest Training Schedule and I am getting good improvement.
Thanks
ZaZ said: Have you tried optimizing the roles trained? Sometimes I need to train players to a new position, and it is possible to pick roles that focus on the desirable attributes since they are only used to define attributes trained.
Personally, my training schedule is:
- 2x Physical + Match Practice (for two matches a week)
- 2x Physical + 2x Match Practice + Attack + Defend + Set Pieces (one match in the week)
- Quickness focus
- Everyone trains roles with good highlighted attributes for their position
I don't know exactly how that compares to the ones in the list. Probably worse pace and acceleration potential, but I usually prefer to profit more on sales to be able to afford more high quality fast young players, allowing me to reach 18-20 pace and acceleration anyway. I add set pieces because I believe (and that might be just my fantasy) that players score more from set pieces when they train that session (again, I didn't test this, it is just my observation, which might be very wrong).
Anyway, I would like to know if someone can test if Set Pieces actually have any influence in goals from set pieces (using some quality set piece routine, obviously). I would also like to suggest, if possible, to post pictures of the expected resulting player with each routine, starting from a fast young player (like 12 pace and acceleration at the age of 16, or 14 of each at 18, which is pretty realistic). I think it would be good because, sometimes, having a player with 19 in pace and acceleration and good values in other attributes can be better than a speedster with 20 pace and acceleration and 1 in the rest, making many of the training schedules judged "inferior" become viable instead.
dor said: Your tests are always incredibly helpful in planning my training.
Thank you so much.
I'm curious to see how effective this plan is: [Quickness] + [Match Practice] + [Attacking] x2 + [Double Intensity] + [Additional Focus Quickness].
I can't find the training plan I suggested in Excel.
Thank you as always.
excel 5:
211 Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution
212 2x Physical + 2x Match Practice + Attack + Defend + Set Pieces
243 [Quickness] + [Match Practice] + [Attacking] x2
Thank You again for Your work.
great pace, acc, good aerial reach and dribbling>0
It looks like maybe the best schedule for all the team (!) is 1xGK unit : One on Ones or Distribution (problem with reflexes)
That's little bit strange, because a description of this unit, like all GK units, is: GK do 1-on-1 and the rest of the team do role_specific_schedule. But maybe I'm wrong and this one has other system, and of course "reality" is not equal FM description .
Did You set roles for players for this tests ? Or left it empy (from position)
I don't know if coaches have been mentioned here at all but if doing the extreme physical growth strategy of all rest for the U18 team no coaches are actually doing anything apart from the fitness coaches so would it therefore not be worth even having any other coaches and just focus on getting a good number of the best fitness coaches possible?
@harvestgreen22 Out of interest could you run some tests where there is quickness in the actual schedule, for example the the recent quickness, match practice, 2xattacking. But instead of quickness as the individual focus have it on aerial? i would like to see how much jumping reach can potentially be gained in comparison with how much acc and pace you lose
harvestgreen22 said: Some updates . This week is my very busy working day week, I'll sort out the previous Excel file and send it out, then I'll go to sleep. and didn't have time to reply the new thing.
excel(part 1 , old)
https://mega.nz/file/4UUUDKgC#NuyR8RDaNap2_e44yi9SS2cjTkGgo2dpTL33obiUWQE
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/pcRwnxi8
excel(part 2 , old)
https://mega.nz/file/QZNVgQzK#xOTiw1heWmVtIDRDDPiUZqzbBnqYAbVi14RYX0W3CoQ
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/NzTu56KH
excel(part 3, old)
https://mega.nz/file/8JlW2LKb#NZyQ-gdnlcXu3Iun8-l5I-_c7wRmikgAvjOZjEsTvCg
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/oa8Y2Z4U
excel(part 4, old)
https://mega.nz/file/dENF1KSK#gY0GO3Od_fALZ51UW_2dxLnAMnmlt0hkt01FVh9ZP50
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/ihxzDL9p
excel(part 5, the newest )
https://mega.nz/file/dAMBTTAD#qJSvz7gwU0o-Yo3ecffCsMEBLiOesQe_7bwiCR_DGXw
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/pcYTkHrZ
excel 5:
211 Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution
212 2x Physical + 2x Match Practice + Attack + Defend + Set Pieces
243 [Quickness] + [Match Practice] + [Attacking] x2
Thank you for testing my routine, now I have a better idea of what I will be testing based on the table. My plan is to try 79 [Endurance] for pre-season (during something between three and six months), followed by either 138 [Physical][Quickness][Resistance][Tactical], 159 [Physical][Quickness][Resistance][Transition Restrict] or 150 [Attacking]x6 in the remaining season. The goal is to use 79 to rebalance attributes, followed by another routine to achieve a focused CA growth to reach top speed with high CA.
harvestgreen22 said: Some updates . This week is my very busy working day week, I'll sort out the previous Excel file and send it out, then I'll go to sleep. and didn't have time to reply the new thing.
excel(part 1 , old)
https://mega.nz/file/4UUUDKgC#NuyR8RDaNap2_e44yi9SS2cjTkGgo2dpTL33obiUWQE
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/pcRwnxi8
excel(part 2 , old)
https://mega.nz/file/QZNVgQzK#xOTiw1heWmVtIDRDDPiUZqzbBnqYAbVi14RYX0W3CoQ
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/NzTu56KH
excel(part 3, old)
https://mega.nz/file/8JlW2LKb#NZyQ-gdnlcXu3Iun8-l5I-_c7wRmikgAvjOZjEsTvCg
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/oa8Y2Z4U
excel(part 4, old)
https://mega.nz/file/dENF1KSK#gY0GO3Od_fALZ51UW_2dxLnAMnmlt0hkt01FVh9ZP50
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/ihxzDL9p
excel(part 5, the newest )
https://mega.nz/file/dAMBTTAD#qJSvz7gwU0o-Yo3ecffCsMEBLiOesQe_7bwiCR_DGXw
or
https://pixeldrain.com/u/pcYTkHrZ
excel 5:
211 Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution
212 2x Physical + 2x Match Practice + Attack + Defend + Set Pieces
243 [Quickness] + [Match Practice] + [Attacking] x2
very very Thank you
harvestgreen22 said: excel(part 5, the newest )
What is "Game preset training 1" in this xls sheet?
I connected all attributes (not only main but even not important) with level of importance , using https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/ - just took 0,1 of grow 1-20 as 1 point (I know it's not linear), make some excel magic and most effective, when all attributes weighted, are (all quickness focus):
1. Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution
2. Game preset training 1 - I don't know what it is
3. [Physical][Quickness][Attacking]x3
4. [Quickness][Attacking][Transition Restrict]
5. [Physical][Match Practice][Chance Conversion]
Robbo84FM said: just focus on getting a good number of the best fitness coaches possible?
Not so easy. As far as I know You get just best coach level and work level and that's all . If you have 100 coaches with 4 stars you are worse then one four-and-half star coach assisted by one-star nobody.
I made some quick tests alternating three different routines (79, 150 and 159) with quickness focus and double intensity, and results were pretty good. First is Rebalance (Endurance x1), then Growth (Attacking x6), then Focus (Physical + Resistance + Quickness + Transition - Restrict), alternating them so they get equal time during the season. I think I will settle for that since it allows me to max speed of initially fast players, while getting a good CA for transfers and using those players.
P.S.: Made some extra tests with just Rebalance + Growth, and results were very similar, so I will keep just those two for simplicity.
harvestgreen22 said: excel 5:
211 Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution
212 2x Physical + 2x Match Practice + Attack + Defend + Set Pieces
243 [Quickness] + [Match Practice] + [Attacking] x2
I think I am getting closer to the best balance with your tests so thank you so much. Here is the next iteration:
Handling, Shot Stopping, Physical x 2, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and One on Ones
Once again reducing the Decisions component and increasing the Acc and Pace
If you could test this when you get a chance i would very much appreciate it
Thanks
Mark said: I think I am getting closer to the best balance with your tests so thank you so much. Here is the next iteration:
Handling, Shot Stopping, Physical x 2, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and One on Ones
Once again reducing the Decisions component and increasing the Acc and Pace
If you could test this when you get a chance i would very much appreciate it
Thanks
Try combining different routines to get what you want. For example, 79 (Endurance x1) gives a good boost in Pace and Acceleration, with very low Decisions gain, for very little CA. If you mix both equally, results might average to values you want.
Here is my Hoffenheim squad. As you can see the training schedules have been to good use and the pace has clearly become quite good on most of my players. The jumping reach though is another thing, it seems to me alot more inconsistent.
This has made me wonder if you guys have tried the schedules in actual saves and achieved more players that me that get fast, but also get their jumping reach. I've been thinking of trying to give every player aerial as a focus for half a season and half a season on quickness to see if i achieve a better balance on it. I will report back if i notice anything interesting.
On the other hand i would love to see you guys using these schedules in actual saves and what results you achieve with it.
ZaZ said: I made some quick tests alternating three different routines (79, 150 and 159) with quickness focus and double intensity, and results were pretty good. First is Rebalance (Endurance x1), then Growth (Attacking x6), then Focus (Physical + Resistance + Quickness + Transition - Restrict), alternating them so they get equal time during the season. I think I will settle for that since it allows me to max speed of initially fast players, while getting a good CA for transfers and using those players.
P.S.: Made some extra tests with just Rebalance + Growth, and results were very similar, so I will keep just those two for simplicity.
Hi. So you just alternate these three workouts? 1-2-3-1-2-3? Thanks.
GabBau said: Hi. So you just alternate these three workouts? 1-2-3-1-2-3? Thanks.
Something like that. I am actually using 1-2-1-2-1-2 now, but results are barely the same. Keep in mind that assumes double intensity at high condition, and focus on quickness. Also, should remove recovery sessions. The idea is "1x endurance", then "6x attacking", with full rest after matches.
Note: Check their table if you want to customize your training for some specific goal.