LIDA41320Pass&Attack SP

All regards to toni4422.
I was refresh SP in this tactic
On fm base test have 349 pts
Can you test this

@Asstem, hi.

Please, add a screenshot of the tactic.

Thank you.

Seems to be a pretty good tactic tbh.

famulor said: Seems to be a pretty good tactic tbh. Expand

It is pretty good, just not the best in ideal conditions.

ZaZ said: It is pretty good, just not the best in ideal conditions. Expand

Ideal conditions is a funny thing tho. It wont represent 95% of the players using the tactics so it isnt something you should lean on too much.

famulor said: Ideal conditions is a funny thing tho. It wont represent 95% of the players using the tactics so it isnt something you should lean on too much. Expand

I would say an above average player would play in perfect conditions pretty often. Test here assumes the following things:
- Maximum morale. You can usually keep morale very high just by complimenting/warning in trainings and matches, and a good tactic will help keep morale high by winning often.
- Maximum condition. Very easy to do in weeks with only one match, but requires some resting and rotation when you play more than once a week.
- Maximum cohesion and familiarity. You should naturally reach this with time during the season.
- Injuried players are "healed" after match. Hardest part to avoid, but can be fixed with some squad building.
- Capable players for all positions. This should be the goal for any squad building, anyway.

As you can see, the conditions are not unatainable at all. If I remember correctly, other tests like FM-Base also do most of these things, except they have less players and different teams (one with CA 160 and one with CA 140), while FM-Arena uses two teams with the same players (to get more matches per season). FM-Base also lets assistant manager pick the team, while FM-Arena picks players manually.

Both Phoenix and Blue were tested there in previous tests, getting good results with CA 160 team, but bad results with CA 140 teams. That doesn't mean Phoenix and Blue are bad with weaker teams, since many people have successfully won everything with weak teams using these tactics, even in the first season. I won the premier league with a team of CA ~110, for example (Leamington). It probably just means the weak team is not suited to those tactics, maybe because it lacks some player for specific positions, maybe because assistant manager can't pick well, or any other reason caused by the test configuration.

If you don't have those perfect conditions, like playing with low morale, low condition, low cohesion and familiarity, more injuries (meaning using reserves more often), as well as worse players and maybe not capable players for all positions, then your tactic oscilate way more, with players doing more mistakes. This means more tests will be needed and results might vary a bit, but scores wouldn't change too much since more than half the matches should be played in nearly perfect conditions.

ZaZ said: It is pretty good, just not the best in ideal conditions. Expand

I don't think 'ideal' is an appropriate word to describe the conditions in the testing. I'd say 'equal' and 'consistent' are more appropriate words to describe the conditions in the testing.

Yes, the players have their morale and conditions maximized and frozen but that's true not only for the human controlled teams in the testing league but that's true, also, for the AI teams in the testing league. All teams in the testing league have players with the same level of the morale and conditions and that doesn't change from match to match so the morale and condition factors are eliminated from the calculation of the match result.

In the testing league you don't win matches due having better morale or better condition or better players, it's all about having a better tactic and that's why testing tactics that way is significantly more accurate than testing during a normal gameplay where you can have better players, higher morale and better conditions than your opponent.

ZaZ said: I would say an above average player would play in perfect conditions pretty often. Test here assumes the following things:
- Maximum morale. You can usually keep morale very high just by complimenting/warning in trainings and matches, and a good tactic will help keep morale high by winning often.
- Maximum condition. Very easy to do in weeks with only one match, but requires some resting and rotation when you play more than once a week.
- Maximum cohesion and familiarity. You should naturally reach this with time during the season.
- Injuried players are "healed" after match. Hardest part to avoid, but can be fixed with some squad building.
- Capable players for all positions. This should be the goal for any squad building, anyway. Expand

As I said the above is true not only for the human teams in the testing league but also, for the AI teams. Having the morale and conditions maximized and frozen doesn't give the human controlled teams any advantage or disadvantage because the AI controlled teams, also, have the the morale and conditions maximized for their players. All the teams in the testing are put in equal conditions so the morale, conditions and players quality factors can be ignored because it's equal for every team so it's all about the quality of tactics.

I've downloaded a game save of one of recent tests and here's Barca team stats as you can see all players have 'Perfect' morale and 100% Conditions and it's the same for all teams in the testing league.

Lapidus said: I don't think 'ideal' is an appropriate word to describe the conditions in the testing. I'd say 'equal' and 'consistent' are more appropriate words to describe the conditions in the testing.

Yes, the players have their morale and conditions maximized and frozen but that's true not only for the human controlled teams in the testing league but that's true, also, for the AI teams in the testing league. All teams in the testing league have players with the same level of the morale and conditions and that doesn't change from match to match so the morale and condition factors are eliminated from the calculation of the match result.

In the testing league you don't win matches due having better morale or better condition or better players, it's all about having a better tactic and that's why testing tactics that way is significantly more accurate than testing during a normal gameplay where you can have better players, higher morale and better conditions than your opponent. Expand

You are completely right. If it's the same for all sides, then it has no effect in the calculations. In normal gameplay, you usually have better of those stats than the opponent (with a good team), meaning you would even have an advantage. I was thinking only about those stats as "less mistakes per match", but it's the same for all sides.

P.S.: I guess instead of "ideal", "equal" or "consistent", it could be described as "tactic as isolated variable".

ZaZ said: You are completely right. If it's the same for all sides, then it has no effect in the calculations. In normal gameplay, you usually have better of those stats than the opponent (with a good team), meaning you would even have an advantage. I was thinking only about those stats as "less mistakes per match", but it's the same for all sides. Expand

Btw, I often see people do the same mistake when they test tactics with FMRTE. They only maximize and freeze the morale and conditions of their players but that's a huge mistake because it gives a huge advantage and distorts the result.

If you test with FMRTE and maximize and freeze the conditions and morale then it should be done for all teams in the league and not only for your team, the way fm-arena does that.