Cyclops v3 Very Attacking

Hi! This tactic is kind of a mix between the Penetration Psycho and Zaz Blue tactics on this site. Penetration Psycho is the highest scoring option on the table right now, and Zaz Blue is the most successful overall. I don't expect this to be the best performing test, but I wanted to see if I could make a tactic that could even approach the amount of goals from PP can while being slightly less porous defensively.



I tested it using the FM Base testing database (without FMRTE options). It basically achieved what I was looking for - a pretty successful tactic that poured in the goals:



For anyone that doesn't know, the FM Base database has a 165CA team and a 140CA team, to simulate a "good team" and "bad team" setup. There are 40 teams in the test league. The 165CA team finished 3rd with the 2nd most goals and 2nd best differential. The 140CA team somehow scored the most goals in the league, but gave up the 3rd most. Still, 11th place and 9th best differential is pretty successful in that database. I also didn't do much work on set pieces, so things could probably be improved even more there.

I'm curious to see how it does in this testing environment.

Thanks!

@dakiri, your tactic reminds me Valhalla by Pulsar. Both tactics have a lot in common.

https://fm-arena.com/tactic/961-valhalla/

oh wow. My apologies for not doing the research, I didn't realize there was already such a similar tactic. Yes, Valhalla is basically the same thing. My guess is that mine might score a little more but would probably be much less successful overall, so it's fine if this doesn't deserve a test - and I'll look at other similar tactics more before I submit again!

dakiri said: oh wow. My apologies for not doing the research, I didn't realize there was already such a similar tactic. Yes, Valhalla is basically the same thing. My guess is that mine might score a little more but would probably be much less successful overall, so it's fine if this doesn't deserve a test - and I'll look at other similar tactics more before I submit again! Expand

They aren't the same. There's enough difference between them. I think your tactic's worth testing.

haha just insane, i tweaked the formation a bit though

malte722 said: haha just insane, i tweaked the formation a bit though Expand

What did you tweak 😱😂

malte722 said: haha just insane, i tweaked the formation a bit though Expand

Wow,what tweak did you make?

can you share the tweak?

Hmm, the test ended up being pretty unexpected. 5.5 score is actually as good as I'd hoped for from a points perspective, but the GF total was pretty uninspiring, so I think it's an overall failure.

Like the rest of the thread, I'm curious to know what malte did to tweak this. Either he got insanely lucky with a small tweak, or he did something major that deserves its own thread - since my tactic as presented does not seem capable of consistently getting those results, even with Liverpool.

malte722 said: haha just insane, i tweaked the formation a bit though Expand

@malte722 Can you share your tweak?

malte722 said: haha just insane, i tweaked the formation a bit though Expand

what tweak did you make, @malte722 ?

I'm adding in a v2 to this thread. Probably not as good as whatever tweak malte made, but at least with my personal tests it was an upgrade. The big changes were moving to Attacking mentality and changing one of the Raumdeuters to an AP-A. I also made smaller changes to both player and team instructions, and added in some corner set pieces.



Improved Results:



It's possible this was just a big high roll, but it's markedly better than my original. I ran another test of V1, as well as a test of Zaz Blue and Void 2.0, using all the exact same testing database and settings for an apples to apples comparison:

Cyclops v1: 1.74 P/G, 2.54 GF/G, 1.91 GA/G, 0.63 GD/G
Zaz blue: 2.13 P/G, 2.46 GF/G, 0.93 GA/G, 1.54 GD/G
Void 2.0: 1.97 P/G, 2.72 GF/G, 1.34 GA/G, 1.38 GD/G
Cyclops v2: 2.06 P/G, 2.49 GF/G, 1.39 GA/G, 1.11 GD/G

So this version was slightly less high scoring than v1 but really improved the defense. Definitely not in the same ballpark as Zaz and the GD suggests that it's much worse than Void still. And obviously this is not the same environment and a much smaller sample size than the full FM-Arena test. Still seems to be better than v1.

I don't think I'm going to iterate any further since at this point with the new instructions I'm dangerously close to just copying the Valhalla tactic linked earlier in the thread. And I'm also fine if this doesn't warrant a 2nd test, considering I would at best expect this to be like a 6.0, not exactly groundbreaking, and there's always the potential it tests the same or even worse than v1. If you're in love with this formation I still would suggest Valhalla, but as someone who likes the way Raumdeuters work, I'm hopeful this is an acceptable and slightly unique option.

Looks like I nailed my guess for v2, with a 6.0 score. I also lied, I'm still tinkering. I'm not going to keep uploading because I know there's protocols against just trying to brute force things. However, I changed the DM to a RPM and added in the instructions "slightly shorter passing," "play through middle," and "be more expressive" and got an insane result, a 2.15 p/g and 1.43 gd/g. For reference when I did the same test with zaz blue I got 2.13 and 1.54. Most likely just a lucky small sample but I think it's indicative of the top end potential here.

dakiri said: Looks like I nailed my guess for v2, with a 6.0 score. I also lied, I'm still tinkering. I'm not going to keep uploading because I know there's protocols against just trying to brute force things. However, I changed the DM to a RPM and added in the instructions "slightly shorter passing," "play through middle," and "be more expressive" and got an insane result, a 2.15 p/g and 1.43 gd/g. For reference when I did the same test with zaz blue I got 2.13 and 1.54. Most likely just a lucky small sample but I think it's indicative of the top end potential here. Expand

Wow those are very good numbers, gonna be following this thread very closely for future updates

dakiri said: I know there's protocols against just trying to brute force things. However, I changed the DM to a RPM and added in the instructions "slightly shorter passing," "play through middle," and "be more expressive" and got an insane result, a 2.15 p/g and 1.43 gd/g. Expand

Feel free to share/upload any tactic you want even with very slight changes. It's just you shouldn't expect every tactic you upload gets tested.

Fair enough! I did another test though and I think it was a fluke, v3 ended up being very similar to v2. Doesn't seem like there's a huge difference between DLP and RPM after all. I'll keep tinkering to see if I can get a meaningful and repeatable performance increase.

did very well with villa too.. i uploaded "my" version.. its a mix between others tho.. good luck

@malte722 , it would be interesting for you to create a thread with your tweak so that it can be tested. 130 goals with Aston Villa is impressive.

MisterCMS said: @malte722 , it would be interesting for you to create a thread with your tweak so that it can be tested. 130 goals with Aston Villa is impressive. Expand


Well, i could do that but i feel its not my tactic, it's a blend between different tactics.. i may ask for permission to do so?

malte722 said: Well, i could do that but i feel its not my tactic, it's a blend between different tactics.. i may ask for permission to do so? Expand
Not sure if you're talking about me, but what you posted looks totally different from my tactic here. Most of the roles are changed, the formation is very different, and the instructions are changed as well.. I bet if you watch a team play with your tactic, it wouldn't look anything like what I posted here - the wingers vs Raumdeuter is a very different experience. It definitely looks like a new tactic to me, and those results deserve a new thread!

malte722 said: did very well with villa too.. i uploaded "my" version.. its a mix between others tho.. good luck Expand

Would you be able to post any player instructions, I’m on Xbox unfortunately. Super intrigued to see what you’ve changed 🤙🏻 Thank you.

dakiri said: Not sure if you're talking about me, but what you posted looks totally different from my tactic here. Most of the roles are changed, the formation is very different, and the instructions are changed as well.. I bet if you watch a team play with your tactic, it wouldn't look anything like what I posted here - the wingers vs Raumdeuter is a very different experience. It definitely looks like a new tactic to me, and those results deserve a new thread! Expand

Okay, thanks. Ill do a last test with QPR and then i will upload it.. i will write down credits to people that ive got the ideas from.

Back with version 3 of Cyclops.

New formation:



I have a new testing league that I made for myself. It's probably a bit less accurate but sims significantly faster than the FM Base version. I use Man City and Valencia (the best and worst teams in the testing league). Results:



And here's apples to apples comparisons in this testing league for the 3 cyclops, Zaz Blue, and Void 2.0:



This was a very solid result for v3 - managed to keep the Raumdeuter and add in a Trequarista, for more unique roles. I also tested a version that has Attacking mentality and is otherwise identical - it did better for the bad team but was less impressive for Man City, overall had slightly more points but a slightly worse GD. So if you aren't a top team, Attacking mentality might be a safer option. The VA was more pleasing to watch in my opinion, though, so I chose to submit that version.

Ok, I'm really pleased with a 6.8! It's also one of the top scoring tactics, so I finally achieved my initial goals in this thread.

I'm still working on a few more tweaks. I've played with switching the DM to a DLP, and adding in less dribbling (I added the "Dribble Less" TI , and got rid of all the "Dribble More" PIs, which was previously on almost every role).

Comparisons with other versions:



The v3 uploaded in this thread still looks like the best tactic for an elite team, since nothing has approached that top Man City result - which is why I haven't uploaded a new version yet. But the other options look very strong in their own way, as good or better than v3. I'll say that the Dribble Less versions I've tested are extremely attractive to watch, with way more short passing and teamwork-based goals. The RPM version was the most fun to watch but the DLP performed slightly better.

I'll keep noodling and see if there's anything I want to upload, but I'm glad to see that you don't need to ONLY use SS and DWs to score a lot. My next trick will be to get similar results without using CM-As in the midfield - seems impossible, though, since they're just so good this patch.

dakiri said: Ok, I'm really pleased with a 6.8! It's also one of the top scoring tactics, so I finally achieved my initial goals in this thread.

I'm still working on a few more tweaks. I've played with switching the DM to a DLP, and adding in less dribbling (I added the "Dribble Less" TI , and got rid of all the "Dribble More" PIs, which was previously on almost every role).

Comparisons with other versions:



The v3 uploaded in this thread still looks like the best tactic for an elite team, since nothing has approached that top Man City result - which is why I haven't uploaded a new version yet. But the other options look very strong in their own way, as good or better than v3. I'll say that the Dribble Less versions I've tested are extremely attractive to watch, with way more short passing and teamwork-based goals. The RPM version was the most fun to watch but the DLP performed slightly better.

I'll keep noodling and see if there's anything I want to upload, but I'm glad to see that you don't need to ONLY use SS and DWs to score a lot. My next trick will be to get similar results without using CM-As in the midfield - seems impossible, though, since they're just so good this patch. Expand

Wouldn't mind u uploading v4 with dms

Ok hopefully my last version. I think the best performing version would be to take v3 and just swap in a DLP with no other changes, but then it becomes a lot like Void and I'm trying to keep this a bit more unique. Also, yhe most attractive football has come from this new version 4 I just uploaded.

V4 has dribble less, has less dribbling PIs for players, and lost the "play through middle" TI. Otherwise is similar to v3, but it did perform better in my tests. It definitely feels different to watch, with very pretty short passing plays and a lot more pass & move goals. V3 was very successful but so many goals came from just booting it to a forward on the counter and watching them run through the defense on the way to a goal, while my ideal goal is a lot of teamwork and quick passes to penetrating runners.

Tactic:



Results (I managed Man City and Valencia on holiday mode):

Alright. v4 didn't have an amazing result overall, but it is now the 2nd highest scoring tactic on the table. I'll take it, especially since the play is still visually very appealing to me. As mentioned, basically all of these tactics can probably be improved if you swap in a DLP at the DM spot, but I just prefer the look of the RPM. I haven't played my actual save in like 2 weeks because of all the testing, so I think I'm truly done with this thread for a while. Thanks for coming on this journey with me, and I'm glad I got some good results with v3 at least.

First of all I want to thank dakiri for the great work, it´s a good lookink and obviously good performing tactic.

For myself, I really enjoy it when my players dominate the list of most scoring players. So I want to ask, how the goals are spread between the players? Who is scoring the most and about how much, e.g. how much your ss scored in your tests? Many thanks in advance

In the future, you can actually download one of the saves on the testing page and get a sense of this yourself - since the lineup is set for the whole season the positions shouldn't change. Note that they play every single game so your players might not get quite this much volume naturally.

I took a look at one of the v3 saves and found this. All numbers are per 38 games to get a sense of how the positions would work in a full premier league season:



This matches up with my experience playing. The raumdeuter actually doesn't score the majority of the goals, but does get the most assists. He functions as a fantastic outlet for the break since he doesn't really defend and is usually wide open on the flank. Then the Treq/SS are great options charging through the middle for him. The back 4/DM don't really influence the scoresheet very often since so much of the play is through the middle with the 3 up top and CM or on the break with those 5. Although I've found the RPM is really good at getting the key pass before the assist in build up, so he's still useful. The wingbacks aren't really that involved in build up play.

If you want a tactic with 1 main goal scorer this might not be it since things are spread between the top 3, but the bright side is that this is high scoring enough that your SS can still lead the league.

@dakiri how does V3 play?

Is it visually appealing?