Positive Tiki Taka

PLEASE DOWNLOAD "Positive Tiki-Taka" AS THAT IS THE BEST PERFORMING CURRENTLY!

I created this playing my Bilbao save, because almost all of Bilbao's wonderkids and prospects have ridiculously low stamina and I've found myself having to sub them at half time using the usual tactics.

So I took my Dazzling 4-3-3 tactic and tweaked it hard to adapt to a positive mentality that would not kill my players. This tactic is great for long term saves where you don't have the very best in terms of stamina or you don't have great squad depth options. It is also great for possession football and is not quick-counter as are most good tactics.

Here are some results, with Bilbao and in my tweaked Testing League. I don't know if this was a lucky run or not. This is all done with CA160 players with same attributes frozen to max everything in the test league. Both cases least goals conceded!





LATER EDIT:

22.2 Results Showcase

credit:@irapbot
credit:@Filer974
credit:@Poacher
credit:@Tsubasa
credit:@Solaris

Since this is getting so much attention, I have decided to do a little FAQ from which people will hopefully be able to better optimize the tactic.

How does/will the tactic work?

The tactic is roughly modelled after '08 Barca with Messi playing as F9. Quick, shorter passing encouraged, DLP as a Pivot to pass balls to everyone, CM(A) and the attacking trio to overload the opponent. The lack of an AM calls for a more deep central attacker (DLF/F9), as there would be no link-up with a classic forward.

Defensively, pressing is high, relies heavily on recovering the ball early using the high number of attacking players.

Will this work in lower leagues?

I'd say this holds its own in terms of stamina still, and in terms of positions, it is the most basic tactic you can get. It uses some of the most common positions regens spawn in, and you should be able to play pretty much whatever you've got in those positions.

Can I change the F9 to another position?

It's complicated. Yes, if you are planning to change it to a DLF. I don't think that would make a huge difference. No if you are planning to change it to a poacher. Keep in mind that the F9 acts more like an AM in this tactic, you should have your "Messi" in this position, the jack of all trades. Passing, Vision, Dribbling, Mentals, not just Pace. Fast classic attackers should go on IF. Also, you can retrain pretty much any talented AM or more creative ST to be a F9.

Tested again, again great results, not as impressive as last, but pretty good.

is f9 works in fm22? I love the way barca played 10/11 with f9 messi

saitjerome said: is f9 works in fm22? I love the way barca played 10/11 with f9 messi Expand

Yeah, I've been using the solo f9 position very successfully this year.

I have lorenzo lucca on my team, when i sell im i'll try f9 with someone who has good dribbling rates.

Update on the Bilbao save, this might be one of the best tactics I've made, at least defensively. 16 conceded in 26 matches. No transfers (duh), first season.

Whats the difference between FB-S and FB-A

saitjerome said: Whats the difference between FB-S and FB-A Expand

FB-S is a little too defensive and cautious going forward. I like FB-A because they tend to act like wingers on the attack, but as opposed to wing-backs, they drop deeper when defending.

Added a version with a minor tweak: Dribble more on central defenders. I am curious as to if this makes any difference in conceding/scoring since everyone seems to use it. If the team could test this out I would appreciate very much.

cptdoggo said: Added a version with a minor tweak: Dribble more on central defenders. I am curious as to if this makes any difference in conceding/scoring since everyone seems to use it. If the team could test this out I would appreciate very much. Expand

unfortunately, the RNG of 2 runs ( 304 matches ) is bigger than the difference of that change so there's no point in testing it.

Zippo said: unfortunately, the RNG of 2 runs ( 304 matches ) is bigger than the difference of that change so there's no point in testing it. Expand

Oh, ok, gotchu, I'll see if there are other meaningful tweaks I can add for a V2

have u tried "much shorter passing" before?

edit: which position scores most?

saitjerome said: have u tried "much shorter passing" before?

edit: which position scores most? Expand

Curiously, everyone. The 2 CM's and the front 3 share most of the goals with nobody in particular being the main goal scorer

cptdoggo said: Curiously, everyone. The 2 CM's and the front 3 share most of the goals with nobody in particular being the main goal scorer Expand

i wonder is there any role for messi? who can score, dribble, everything. I think f9 and IF suits well but dunno what u think?

edit: Whats the difference between CM-A and MEZ-A

saitjerome said: i wonder is there any role for messi? who can score, dribble, everything. I think f9 and IF suits well but dunno what u think Expand

Yes, I use a Messi-like player in F9 role. Good dribbling, good passing, intelligent(good mentals). Finishing doesn't matter so much because all the goals he will score will be tap-ins from crosses.

I use my fastest attackers on the wings and the slower but more technical attackers as F9.

EDIT: You can also use MEZ-A without too much impact on the overall effectiveness of the tactic. They act very similarly to CM-A, they just tend to drift a little wider on the pitch.

just in case u miss

Whats the difference between CM-A and MEZ-A

Got some promising tests with a tweak I did.

Changes: - Moved 2xIF + F9 combination into a 3 striker formation for more attacking power. I tested with 2 possible combinations, either 2 F9's or 2 AF's. Both seem very promising and this seems to have added quite a bit of attacking power without sacrificing defence, while also adding a 2-3% possession.

Tests will tell but your experience then also is 2 x AF >> 2 x IW ?

My ocd can’t handle it but it seems a theme from what i see in the higher rated tactics

Belmorn said: Tests will tell but your experience then also is 2 x AF >> 2 x IW ?

My ocd can’t handle it but it seems a theme from what i see in the higher rated tactics Expand

I'm not sure, the IF in the tactic that was there previously was supposed to act kind of like a forward, not a winger. I just noticed they didn't stay forward enough, as the F9 had a more advanced average position, so I thought I should push them to AF so that the F9 plays behind them. I also tried the 2x F9 and an AF because I thought it might help possession a bit.

For more possession, u could try "much shorter passing" and FB-A to IWB-S for LB and RB

5.7! Great, finally we have a 5.5+ tactic that doesnt murder your players stamina.

cptdoggo said: 5.7! Great, finally we have a 5.5+ tactic that doesnt murder your players stamina. Expand

I really don't want to be a party breaker but the intensity and not the mentality is what makes impact on the conditions and your latest tactics have the same intensity as any other top rated tactics.

There's only any meaningful is when the intensity bar is green/blue/red. I mean for the start you need to reduce the intensity to blue at least to see any difference. and if you can reduce to "green" then it will even better but there's no difference at all between red bars.

Sandro said: I really don't want to be a party breaker but the intensity and not the mentality is what makes impact on the conditions and your latest tactics have the same intensity as any other top rated tactics.

There's only any meaningful is when the intensity bar is green/blue/red. I mean for the start you need to reduce the intensity to blue at least to see any difference. and if you can reduce to "green" then it will even better but there's no difference at all between red bars. Expand

There never will be any good tactic with purple or green intensity. This is still much less demanding than a Very Attacking tactic. I use this in my Athletic Club save and 10 stamina strikers can play 70-90min no prob with this tactic.

I know the difference in the visual slider is minimal, but in game, positive vs very attacking difference in stamina is huge

cptdoggo said: There never will be any good tactic with purple or green intensity. This is still much less demanding than a Very Attacking tactic. I use this in my Athletic Club save and 10 stamina strikers can play 70-90min no prob with this tactic.

I know the difference in the visual slider is minimal, but in game, positive vs very attacking difference in stamina is huge Expand

Actually, it can be measured and I've done such tests many times. The mentality makes no difference and the only what matters is the intensity. You can see it by yourself, just measure the conditions of your players before and after a match using tactics with different intensity/mentality values but only don't use "go on holiday" or "instant result" to play a match because in this case your assistant manager makes substitutions and the result won't be accurate.

could u share 2AF tactic league stats? Wish to know possession rate

saitjerome said: could u share 2AF tactic league stats? Wish to know possession rate Expand

It gets 47-49% usually. However, in game that usually translates to 50%+. Very Attacking tactics usually get 41-43%.



Revelation 1.0 possession to compare

Uploaded an even lower stamina version, with Ease Off Tackles on every single position. @Zippo could we test if this changes results heavily? I know @ZaZ did it for Cyan and it didn't change much so I would like to confirm if Positive tactics work the same with Ease Off Tackles, as the shapes are completely different in the 2 tactics, so we can settle this discussion, as there have been conflicting opinions on this.

cptdoggo said: It gets 47-49% usually. However, in game that usually translates to 50%+. Very Attacking tactics usually get 41-43%.



Revelation 1.0 possession to compare

Expand

What about the regular "positive tiki taka" tactic? is it leading on possession rates?

saitjerome said: What about the regular "positive tiki taka" tactic? is it leading on possession rates? Expand

No, the 2AF and 2F9 options have slightly better possession with 2F9 having the best.

cptdoggo said: There never will be any good tactic with purple or green intensity. This is still much less demanding than a Very Attacking tactic. I use this in my Athletic Club save and 10 stamina strikers can play 70-90min no prob with this tactic.

I know the difference in the visual slider is minimal, but in game, positive vs very attacking difference in stamina is huge Expand

I'm pretty sure it's possible to have a good tactic with purple mentality. Cyan, for example, got 5.3 with a low intensity setting. I'm quite sure with a bit of tweaking, it could get to 5.5+.