Lapidus said: I guess the easiest and simplest way to find out it is watching few matches in 3D Expand
I have watched a good part in 2D and can't see that it triggers very often or at all. Tactics with WCBs tend to have WBs, and the WBs never wait for the WCB to underlapp or overlapp, despite not being on attacking mentality. They WCBs still come more forward than a normal CB, but are rarely used to play One-Twos.
TommyToxic said: I have watched a good part in 2D and can't see that it triggers very often or at all. Tactics with WCBs tend to have WBs, and the WBs never wait for the WCB to underlapp or overlapp, despite not being on attacking mentality. They WCBs still come more forward than a normal CB, but are rarely used to play One-Twos. Expand
And that once again proves that the most descriptions and explanation in the game are vague and useless and the only way to find out how things works is to test it or watch how it works in 3D.
I don't trust any of the role animations. In essence:
- Each player has instructions what to do when team has the ball, and what to do when he has the ball - Mentality (Def, Sup, Att) dictates how early will they apply those instructions, as the team moves up the field.
If you look at WCB
Defend: - Cross from deep - Hold position - Stay wider
In this situation he will go a bit wider, but mostly when the ball already moved up the pitch, and stay there.
Support: - Stay wider
Here they will go wider a bit earlier, and move a little bit up as the formation is moving (explained in my post in more details)
Attack: - Dribble more - Cross more often - Cross from byline - Stay wider
Here, they go wider and then a bit more forward much earlier (because of attacking mentality).
Regarding the cut
These are their instructions they will follow. What role animation shows, is possible but it will only happen in a particular case - if player close to it like DW gets pressured, and it's close enough to the WCB that is free, who then starts to open up for the pass. But this is not exclusively the WCB behavior, but behavior of all players by default. It will rarely happen as animation shows.
What we as humans would expect, is for example DM holding the ball and waiting for WCB to cut, but from observing the match engine, it seems that each player just follows their own instructions (unless pressured, having the ball and space opens, ,they've been given a forward pass in the space or they're close to another player and providing support). Other than that, they will mostly follow their instructions blindly.
There are many, "it works that way" while is not, but the most video that is near to what i do think about overlap and underlap is that :
And for my personal "experience" on this patch is underlaps look most likely a cut-inside(i don't know how to express better then this,but most likely is the contrary of the overlap movement but they it inside the space and channels) maybe is doing combo with pass-into space, but those are just my personal thoughts on the matter. Since or you trust someone or you gonna just lose your self on those stuff
Seem before you needed to put the WB on Attack duty to make him overlap while on FM23 (previous patch) wouldn't even matter, because every player on the flank could've overlap and i am not even sure anymore that those TI are even needed. Because basically you making things, more complicated for the players, but the reward can be massive(scoring a goal)
Have anyone done any testing or have valuable experience to how underlapping and overlapping on WCBs work? Their role description says the following:
What decides if they want to underlapp or overlapp, since the description says they can do both, and how frequent?
I guess the easiest and simplest way to find out it is watching few matches in 3D
Lapidus said: I guess the easiest and simplest way to find out it is watching few matches in 3D
I have watched a good part in 2D and can't see that it triggers very often or at all. Tactics with WCBs tend to have WBs, and the WBs never wait for the WCB to underlapp or overlapp, despite not being on attacking mentality. They WCBs still come more forward than a normal CB, but are rarely used to play One-Twos.
TommyToxic said: I have watched a good part in 2D and can't see that it triggers very often or at all. Tactics with WCBs tend to have WBs, and the WBs never wait for the WCB to underlapp or overlapp, despite not being on attacking mentality. They WCBs still come more forward than a normal CB, but are rarely used to play One-Twos.
And that once again proves that the most descriptions and explanation in the game are vague and useless and the only way to find out how things works is to test it or watch how it works in 3D.
I wrote a lot about those things yesterday if you have time to read: https://fm-arena.com/thread/4793-match-engine-personal-observations/
I don't trust any of the role animations. In essence:
- Each player has instructions what to do when team has the ball, and what to do when he has the ball
- Mentality (Def, Sup, Att) dictates how early will they apply those instructions, as the team moves up the field.
If you look at WCB
Defend:
- Cross from deep
- Hold position
- Stay wider
In this situation he will go a bit wider, but mostly when the ball already moved up the pitch, and stay there.
Support:
- Stay wider
Here they will go wider a bit earlier, and move a little bit up as the formation is moving (explained in my post in more details)
Attack:
- Dribble more
- Cross more often
- Cross from byline
- Stay wider
Here, they go wider and then a bit more forward much earlier (because of attacking mentality).
Regarding the cut
These are their instructions they will follow. What role animation shows, is possible but it will only happen in a particular case - if player close to it like DW gets pressured, and it's close enough to the WCB that is free, who then starts to open up for the pass. But this is not exclusively the WCB behavior, but behavior of all players by default. It will rarely happen as animation shows.
What we as humans would expect, is for example DM holding the ball and waiting for WCB to cut, but from observing the match engine, it seems that each player just follows their own instructions (unless pressured, having the ball and space opens, ,they've been given a forward pass in the space or they're close to another player and providing support). Other than that, they will mostly follow their instructions blindly.
There are many, "it works that way" while is not, but the most video that is near to what i do think about overlap and underlap is that :
And for my personal "experience" on this patch is underlaps look most likely a cut-inside(i don't know how to express better then this,but most likely is the contrary of the overlap movement but they it inside the space and channels) maybe is doing combo with pass-into space, but those are just my personal thoughts on the matter. Since or you trust someone or you gonna just lose your self on those stuff
Seem before you needed to put the WB on Attack duty to make him overlap while on FM23 (previous patch) wouldn't even matter, because every player on the flank could've overlap and i am not even sure anymore that those TI are even needed. Because basically you making things, more complicated for the players, but the reward can be massive(scoring a goal)