Gracolas said: What would be a good training schedule for non-professional clubs?
Im running this, but not sure if its the most effective:
Expand
It does not matter much. Most players in lower leagues have too low PA, and once you get promoted, it is often better to hire a complete new team of free player since better players will accept to play for you.
ZaZ said: It does not matter much. Most players in lower leagues have too low PA, and once you get promoted, it is often better to hire a complete new team of free player since better players will accept to play for you. Expand
Got it, but is there anything i can do to avoid injuries and/or fatigue? So far i dont have any issues with it, but thinking more in advance
Gracolas said: Got it, but is there anything i can do to avoid injuries and/or fatigue? So far i dont have any issues with it, but thinking more in advance Expand
Fatigue is generated by playing, so the only way to avoid it is by rotating the squad. Injuries, on the other hand, depend in several factors, like fatigue, match sharpness, condition, training load, injury proneness, and also the dirtiness of opponents.
Gracolas said: What would be a good training schedule for non-professional clubs?
Im running this, but not sure if its the most effective:
Expand
It literally doesn't matter. Whatever your assistant puts up is fine, maybe some specific training before big matches that's it. You're not developing anyone training twice per week at 7/20 facilities.
@ZaZ@Mark wondering if you guys made any changes to your individual training routine after taking a look at Max's analysis on the topic? I was in the "only quickness for outfield" mindset, but that seems to be the wrong approach given the negligible difference in Pace/Acc attributes from the testing. I'm thinking it makes the most sense to improve weaknesses or key attributes even though it may be at the cost of other (hopefully) less important ones, but would love to get your thoughts.
BadA said: @ZaZ@Mark wondering if you guys made any changes to your individual training routine after taking a look at Max's analysis on the topic? I was in the "only quickness for outfield" mindset, but that seems to be the wrong approach given the negligible difference in Pace/Acc attributes from the testing. I'm thinking it makes the most sense to improve weaknesses or key attributes even though it may be at the cost of other (hopefully) less important ones, but would love to get your thoughts. Expand
It might look negligible, but you also have to see it as a rebalance of attributes. It will make you grow a bit less in some attributes, and a bit more in the focus, and it will also slow down your loss of Pace and Acceleration with age. It will not affect your CA very much on average, but it will make your attributes more effective on the long run.
BadA said: @ZaZ@Mark wondering if you guys made any changes to your individual training routine after taking a look at Max's analysis on the topic? I was in the "only quickness for outfield" mindset, but that seems to be the wrong approach given the negligible difference in Pace/Acc attributes from the testing. I'm thinking it makes the most sense to improve weaknesses or key attributes even though it may be at the cost of other (hopefully) less important ones, but would love to get your thoughts. Expand
Here is what I was using, although I am mostly playing with a part time team currently.
I use it in conjunction with the @ZaZ training rest approach. For additional training focus I use the following:
Some of the training sessions like Chance Creation include Individual Focus so activate the Additional Focus sessions.
I think this is the best balance, but will test it more thoroughly when I get my side to Professional. My young players are developing reasonably well using a Part Time version.
Yarema said: Max posted another video. Some interesting stuff on diminishing returns of using several same training sessions per week. Expand
I have looked at Max's latest video. A couple of things to note are that I have based my schedule on Max's research and even though I have most training slots full, I have also used @ZaZ automatic resting process, so players who are playing games wont participate in much more than 12 sessions, other than Goalkeepers.
Let me just talk you through the rationale. I looked at the main attributes that make a difference in the game based on FM Arena attribute testing and the machine learning ykykyky Genie Scout rating. The general attributes that were across all positions were Acceleration, Pace, Work Rate, Stamina, Agility, Anticipation, Passing, Dribbling. I then looked at the training sessions that were preferred by Max and that showed they made the best improvement for those attributes. This is how I landed on the above schedule.
For Additional Focus I looked at the other Attributes for each position as per the machine learning ykykyky Genie Scout rating that werent covered above and allocated the Additional Focus to that Training aspect. You should also note that Max observed that older players benefitted from Agility and Balance Additional Focus so I allocate all players 25 and over to that.
Mark said: Here is what I was using, although I am mostly playing with a part time team currently.
I use it in conjunction with the @ZaZ training rest approach. For additional training focus I use the following:
Some of the training sessions like Chance Creation include Individual Focus so activate the Additional Focus sessions.
I think this is the best balance, but will test it more thoroughly when I get my side to Professional. My young players are developing reasonably well using a Part Time version.
I hope this helps. Expand
What about U19s,can i use the same training schedule + additional training focus,or what do you think is best?
Potential attributes are not set. Here are 2 of my juniors after 10 weeks. The have only really been competing for 5 weeks. Current stats on left and starting ones on right.
Mark said: Potential attributes are not set. Here are 2 of my juniors after 10 weeks. The have only really been competing for 5 weeks. Current stats on left and starting ones on right.
The last video of Max do not change much my schedule. If you look properly at the schedule he proposes, it is almost the same as mine, except with no training on match days and those two sessions before and after the match (for travel). Now, if you consider that match days (and travel) will overwrite training sessions in my schedule, the results will be very similar, especially when you consider resting days after matches. In other words, since the schedules will be very similar, the difference will be negligible.
Cherknam said: Interesting, thank you. Presumably it is the additional focus that causes this, I can't think of what else would cause it to change, do you know? Expand
I am not sure as I haven't really focused on that aspect, it is just something that I have noticed. I am managing a Vanarama South part time team. What I have noticed is that players develop faster if they are training a different position. I know @ZaZ wingers and wing backs to the opposite side. I am also training centre backs to DM and Strikers to AM. Also DM to either centre back or AM and AM to wingers for versatility.
I have been using additional focus to pick up the attributes specific to the position the players are playing that are not focused on through my training schedule - see above.
Cherknam said: I didn't know that, I thought learning a new position took up some of their CA and therefore lowered their potential attributes. Expand
That's correct.
Learning a new position is always a trade off form some attributes levels. Not always it's a big trade off but still.
You can't train players additional positions "for free" in FM, if it was possible then you would want to train them as many additional positions as possible.
Learning a new position is always a trade off form some attributes levels. Not always it's a big trade off but still.
You can't train players additional positions "for free" in FM, if it was possible then you would want to train them as many additional positions as possible. Expand
All of my players who were learning new positions increased CA quicker than those that weren't. I haven't done extensive testing, it is just an observation.
Mark said: All of my players who were learning new positions increased CA quicker than those that weren't. I haven't done extensive testing, it is just an observation. Expand
For example, if you train a pure striker to play also AM and Winger then when he reaches his PA then his attributes will be lower than if he stayed a pure striker.
I don't say that training additional positions is a bad thing, I just wanted to point out that it isn't "for free" and there's a price for it. People should understand it.
Lapidus said: For example, if you train a pure striker to play also AM and Winger then when he reaches his PA then his attributes will be lower than if he stayed a pure striker.
I don't say that training additional positions is a bad thing, I just wanted to point out that it isn't "for free" and there's a price for it. People should understand it. Expand
Fair enough. The screenshots above were from 2 16yo players. Hunter had starting CA at 30 and starting PA at 128 and is an AMC. I trained Hunter as a DM as I don't usually use an AMC in my tactics. Bell had a starting CA of 36 and PA of 118 and is a winger. Bell is a winger and is training as a winger. After the 10 weeks Hunter had a CA of 31 and PA of 128. Slight increase in CA but PA the same. Bell was still 36 and 118.
However, if you look at the screenshots, Hunter's PA attributes had risen 1 point for 3 attributes and 2 points for another. Hunter had no reductions. Bell's PA attributes had also changed slightly with two rising a point and two dropping a point. I know this is a very small sample but I find it interesting. If I get a chance at some point I will do some testing.
Lapidus said: For example, if you train a pure striker to play also AM and Winger then when he reaches his PA then his attributes will be lower than if he stayed a pure striker.
I don't say that training additional positions is a bad thing, I just wanted to point out that it isn't "for free" and there's a price for it. People should understand it. Expand
It's free for some specific cases, like training positions with the same attribute weights (like opposite side for wingers or wingbacks). I tested other combinations in the editor before, and I remember there was one combination that also did not increase CA, but I do not remember which it was. I believe it was AM + FC, resulting in the same CA as a pure striker. I have no evidence to prove it, but I think it keeps the highest weights of both positions for calculating CA.
ZaZ said: It's free for some specific cases, like training positions with the same attribute weights (like opposite side for wingers or wingbacks). Expand
Yes. That's true.
If it's just the opposite side of the field then it's free.
It increases if you move from DM to CM, for example. It keeps the highest, somehow. In short, DM + CM gives CA of CM. AM + ST gives CA of ST, and I believe CM + AM gives CA of AM.
Thanks for testing, and I ask if you can confirm my statement since you are already there, please.
P.S.: In short, there are two directions. For example, AM > ST will increase CA, while ST > AM will not.
Laur said: Actually I tested with a few players that were either AM or ST, and sometimes AM+ST doesn't increase, sometimes it does. I don't get it anymore.
I tested by editing their position ability, from 1 to 20 and back. Expand
There are two possibilities: 1. They had another position, and then increasing to three playing positions will probably always increase CA. 2. Only attributes after certain threshold are considered for CA. When they are below certain value, they do not count at all.
Gracolas said: What would be a good training schedule for non-professional clubs?
Im running this, but not sure if its the most effective:
It does not matter much. Most players in lower leagues have too low PA, and once you get promoted, it is often better to hire a complete new team of free player since better players will accept to play for you.
ZaZ said: It does not matter much. Most players in lower leagues have too low PA, and once you get promoted, it is often better to hire a complete new team of free player since better players will accept to play for you.
Got it, but is there anything i can do to avoid injuries and/or fatigue? So far i dont have any issues with it, but thinking more in advance
Gracolas said: Got it, but is there anything i can do to avoid injuries and/or fatigue? So far i dont have any issues with it, but thinking more in advance
Fatigue is generated by playing, so the only way to avoid it is by rotating the squad. Injuries, on the other hand, depend in several factors, like fatigue, match sharpness, condition, training load, injury proneness, and also the dirtiness of opponents.
Gracolas said: What would be a good training schedule for non-professional clubs?
Im running this, but not sure if its the most effective:
It literally doesn't matter. Whatever your assistant puts up is fine, maybe some specific training before big matches that's it. You're not developing anyone training twice per week at 7/20 facilities.
more like 2/20 facilities ahahha
@ZaZ @Mark wondering if you guys made any changes to your individual training routine after taking a look at Max's analysis on the topic? I was in the "only quickness for outfield" mindset, but that seems to be the wrong approach given the negligible difference in Pace/Acc attributes from the testing. I'm thinking it makes the most sense to improve weaknesses or key attributes even though it may be at the cost of other (hopefully) less important ones, but would love to get your thoughts.
BadA said: @ZaZ @Mark wondering if you guys made any changes to your individual training routine after taking a look at Max's analysis on the topic? I was in the "only quickness for outfield" mindset, but that seems to be the wrong approach given the negligible difference in Pace/Acc attributes from the testing. I'm thinking it makes the most sense to improve weaknesses or key attributes even though it may be at the cost of other (hopefully) less important ones, but would love to get your thoughts.
It might look negligible, but you also have to see it as a rebalance of attributes. It will make you grow a bit less in some attributes, and a bit more in the focus, and it will also slow down your loss of Pace and Acceleration with age. It will not affect your CA very much on average, but it will make your attributes more effective on the long run.
@ZaZ ...so no
BadA said: @ZaZ @Mark wondering if you guys made any changes to your individual training routine after taking a look at Max's analysis on the topic? I was in the "only quickness for outfield" mindset, but that seems to be the wrong approach given the negligible difference in Pace/Acc attributes from the testing. I'm thinking it makes the most sense to improve weaknesses or key attributes even though it may be at the cost of other (hopefully) less important ones, but would love to get your thoughts.
Here is what I was using, although I am mostly playing with a part time team currently.
I use it in conjunction with the @ZaZ training rest approach. For additional training focus I use the following:
Some of the training sessions like Chance Creation include Individual Focus so activate the Additional Focus sessions.
I think this is the best balance, but will test it more thoroughly when I get my side to Professional. My young players are developing reasonably well using a Part Time version.
I hope this helps.
Max posted another video. Some interesting stuff on diminishing returns of using several same training sessions per week.
Yarema said: Max posted another video. Some interesting stuff on diminishing returns of using several same training sessions per week.
I have looked at Max's latest video. A couple of things to note are that I have based my schedule on Max's research and even though I have most training slots full, I have also used @ZaZ automatic resting process, so players who are playing games wont participate in much more than 12 sessions, other than Goalkeepers.
Let me just talk you through the rationale. I looked at the main attributes that make a difference in the game based on FM Arena attribute testing and the machine learning ykykyky Genie Scout rating. The general attributes that were across all positions were Acceleration, Pace, Work Rate, Stamina, Agility, Anticipation, Passing, Dribbling. I then looked at the training sessions that were preferred by Max and that showed they made the best improvement for those attributes. This is how I landed on the above schedule.
For Additional Focus I looked at the other Attributes for each position as per the machine learning ykykyky Genie Scout rating that werent covered above and allocated the Additional Focus to that Training aspect. You should also note that Max observed that older players benefitted from Agility and Balance Additional Focus so I allocate all players 25 and over to that.
Pumpkin said: Why it's literally been proven to be the best possible schedule
Look like after the latest video from Max, this training schedule need to change
Mark said: Here is what I was using, although I am mostly playing with a part time team currently.
I use it in conjunction with the @ZaZ training rest approach. For additional training focus I use the following:
Some of the training sessions like Chance Creation include Individual Focus so activate the Additional Focus sessions.
I think this is the best balance, but will test it more thoroughly when I get my side to Professional. My young players are developing reasonably well using a Part Time version.
I hope this helps.
What about U19s,can i use the same training schedule + additional training focus,or what do you think is best?
SeniorFMer said: What about U19s,can i use the same training schedule + additional training focus,or what do you think is best?
I use the same schedule for my junior side.
Potential attributes are not set. Here are 2 of my juniors after 10 weeks. The have only really been competing for 5 weeks. Current stats on left and starting ones on right.
Mark said: Potential attributes are not set. Here are 2 of my juniors after 10 weeks. The have only really been competing for 5 weeks. Current stats on left and starting ones on right.
But left and right look the same
ta2199 said: But left and right look the same
Example, first 3 Physical for Hunter (right) 15, 13, 8 - (left) 16, 15, 9
The last video of Max do not change much my schedule. If you look properly at the schedule he proposes, it is almost the same as mine, except with no training on match days and those two sessions before and after the match (for travel). Now, if you consider that match days (and travel) will overwrite training sessions in my schedule, the results will be very similar, especially when you consider resting days after matches. In other words, since the schedules will be very similar, the difference will be negligible.
Cherknam said: Interesting, thank you. Presumably it is the additional focus that causes this, I can't think of what else would cause it to change, do you know?
I am not sure as I haven't really focused on that aspect, it is just something that I have noticed. I am managing a Vanarama South part time team. What I have noticed is that players develop faster if they are training a different position. I know @ZaZ wingers and wing backs to the opposite side. I am also training centre backs to DM and Strikers to AM. Also DM to either centre back or AM and AM to wingers for versatility.
I have been using additional focus to pick up the attributes specific to the position the players are playing that are not focused on through my training schedule - see above.
Cherknam said: I didn't know that, I thought learning a new position took up some of their CA and therefore lowered their potential attributes.
That's correct.
Learning a new position is always a trade off form some attributes levels. Not always it's a big trade off but still.
You can't train players additional positions "for free" in FM, if it was possible then you would want to train them as many additional positions as possible.
Lapidus said: That's correct.
Learning a new position is always a trade off form some attributes levels. Not always it's a big trade off but still.
You can't train players additional positions "for free" in FM, if it was possible then you would want to train them as many additional positions as possible.
All of my players who were learning new positions increased CA quicker than those that weren't. I haven't done extensive testing, it is just an observation.
Mark said: All of my players who were learning new positions increased CA quicker than those that weren't. I haven't done extensive testing, it is just an observation.
For example, if you train a pure striker to play also AM and Winger then when he reaches his PA then his attributes will be lower than if he stayed a pure striker.
I don't say that training additional positions is a bad thing, I just wanted to point out that it isn't "for free" and there's a price for it. People should understand it.
Lapidus said: For example, if you train a pure striker to play also AM and Winger then when he reaches his PA then his attributes will be lower than if he stayed a pure striker.
I don't say that training additional positions is a bad thing, I just wanted to point out that it isn't "for free" and there's a price for it. People should understand it.
Fair enough. The screenshots above were from 2 16yo players. Hunter had starting CA at 30 and starting PA at 128 and is an AMC. I trained Hunter as a DM as I don't usually use an AMC in my tactics. Bell had a starting CA of 36 and PA of 118 and is a winger. Bell is a winger and is training as a winger. After the 10 weeks Hunter had a CA of 31 and PA of 128. Slight increase in CA but PA the same. Bell was still 36 and 118.
However, if you look at the screenshots, Hunter's PA attributes had risen 1 point for 3 attributes and 2 points for another. Hunter had no reductions. Bell's PA attributes had also changed slightly with two rising a point and two dropping a point. I know this is a very small sample but I find it interesting. If I get a chance at some point I will do some testing.
Lapidus said: For example, if you train a pure striker to play also AM and Winger then when he reaches his PA then his attributes will be lower than if he stayed a pure striker.
I don't say that training additional positions is a bad thing, I just wanted to point out that it isn't "for free" and there's a price for it. People should understand it.
It's free for some specific cases, like training positions with the same attribute weights (like opposite side for wingers or wingbacks). I tested other combinations in the editor before, and I remember there was one combination that also did not increase CA, but I do not remember which it was. I believe it was AM + FC, resulting in the same CA as a pure striker. I have no evidence to prove it, but I think it keeps the highest weights of both positions for calculating CA.
ZaZ said: It's free for some specific cases, like training positions with the same attribute weights (like opposite side for wingers or wingbacks).
Yes. That's true.
If it's just the opposite side of the field then it's free.
I tested now, and these combinations also do not increase CA:
CD + DM
DM + CM
CM + AM
This increased it:
AM + ST
Laur said: CD + DM doesn't increase CA
DM + CM doesn't increase CA either
It increases if you move from DM to CM, for example. It keeps the highest, somehow. In short, DM + CM gives CA of CM. AM + ST gives CA of ST, and I believe CM + AM gives CA of AM.
Thanks for testing, and I ask if you can confirm my statement since you are already there, please.
P.S.: In short, there are two directions. For example, AM > ST will increase CA, while ST > AM will not.
Actually I tested with a few players that were either AM or ST, and sometimes AM+ST doesn't increase, sometimes it does. I don't get it anymore.
I tested by editing their position ability, from 1 to 20 and back.
Laur said: Actually I tested with a few players that were either AM or ST, and sometimes AM+ST doesn't increase, sometimes it does. I don't get it anymore.
I tested by editing their position ability, from 1 to 20 and back.
There are two possibilities:
1. They had another position, and then increasing to three playing positions will probably always increase CA.
2. Only attributes after certain threshold are considered for CA. When they are below certain value, they do not count at all.
According to Zealand's latest video there does seem to be a benefit of using double intensity