irapbot said: That's a good idea
I use Zaz blue3.0 , my kids dominate in league but can't get a win in Europa.
I want to see fm-arena test with team low rep low ca like you said.
but im not sure i cant get a good tactic from knap/fmbase test league but i can get the best tactic
like zazblue/phoenix at fm-arena. lol

Expand

Unrelated to testing but here's a tip when playing in Europe - start games with Cautious mentality when playing vs bigger teams and when playing away (unless you are a favorite).

Here is my season with Zenit in my journeyman save, so it's not like I had time to build up the club, I was working with what I was given - Real and PSG in the group, yet I finished first and have not lost a single game (and to be honest I should have won both the home games against them, I just went a bit too defensive in the last minutes of the game and conceded late goals). Then I've eliminated City in the 1/8, and unfortunately lost to Chelsea in 1/4 but only 1-2 on aggregate. This is all using ZaZ Blue 3.0, just starting the games on Cautious when I'm the underdog.

Kerem tp said: To give an example fmarena test their tactics based on 2 teams with 160 CA but Team A has higher reputation to imitate top team and Team B with lower reputation to imitate underdog side. Expand

I don't think that's correct, according to the post about the testing league:

Alexander said: - Underdog Team(low rep) and Favorite Team(high rep) are gone. Now all teams in the league have the same reputation, we find this would be more appropriate because all teams in the league are about the same in quality.

- There are 2 teams in the league under our control (Team A and Team B), there's no difference between them and we did that just to double the number of matches we test per one run. Expand

You can download the saves after testing as well - all the teams in the league have 4 star reputation. Also not all the players have 160CA, for example: Central Defenders have 160 CA, DMs/CMs have 169 CA while Wingers/AMCs/Strikers have 188CA (for the testing teams, from what I've checked AI teams don't have those types of players that can play all those positions at once so they have a little lower CA). That doesn't necessarily mean that the teams have better attacking players than defenders - just being able to play in more than position requires more CA as far as I'm aware.

That means that all the teams in the league are basically identical which allows to test only the quality of the tactic - not quality of the players.

You could say that it only tests tactics for elite teams but I don't think that's necessarily true - player attributes in FM are relative - player on a field that has 11 pace while opponents have 8 pace should behave the same on the pitch as a player that has 16 pace against opponents with 13 pace.

ZaZ said: Do you mind if I add that to first post? Expand

Sure, go ahead.

Mrbolu said: Hopefully someone makes something like this for the player instructions Expand

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qM5Gxv2Qk3MkxiaiYWFP70iSxUb7TNr2/edit#gid=1710399827

So far I've only went through some of the top tactics because I've already had them downloaded, I'll try to fill it out more in the next few days. I've only went through each tactic and wrote down the PIs from every position so keep in mind that some tactics simply don't use a certain PI - for example they use neither Take More Risks or Take Fewer Risks, but this was done really quick for now, I'll work on the sheet more later and try to add those instances as well.

Machismo said: Thanks.  So the IWBs default is set to 'sup' (Zazz Blue).  If I switch to Cautious or Defend should I manually change their roles to 'defend' when I change Mentality during a match? Expand

I don't think you should do that, defend duty on fullbacks is just not that good. When you switch to lower mentality the player's mentality lowers automatically - mentality of IWB on support duty when playing on Positive is also Positive (you can check that when you click "edit" on player instructions) and when you lower the mentality to Cautious for example, the IWB's mentality also drops to Cautious. That should be enough to improve the defensive performance, Defend duty is an overkill in my opinion (mentality of IWB on Defend duty when you are using cautious team mentality is Very Defensive, that's just going too defensive).

luisanjao said: it is possible to adapt SS to AF ? i dont like strikerless Expand

Yes you can move Shadow Strikers to Advanced Forwards with Tackle Harder and Dribble More. But it kind of defeats the point of this tweak, because having strikers automatically makes tactic much worse defensively - just look at Pheonix and Fanatic in the testing table - it's the same tactic but Fanatic has strikers and Pheonix shadow strikers - Pheonix loses 1.337 goals per game, Fanatic 1.787 goals per game, so you're conceding 0.45 goals more every game just because you have strikers.

But it's your choice, it will still work with strikers just a bit worse overall, and definitely worse defensively.

Here is a tactic I've been working on - it's a tweak of ZaZ Blue - but one that is focused heavily on defence, all the top tactics in the game still concede 1.3/1.4 goals per game on average in the fmarena test and I've wanted to make something that could really keep those clean sheets and get a lot of 1-0/2-0 wins instead of 3-1/4-2 and scorelines like that.

Here are some results:
Benfica - 14 conceded in 34 games, 23 clean sheets, 13.31 xG against (0.39 per game)
City - 10 conceded in 38 games, 29 clean sheets, 14.06 xG against (0.37 per game)
Inter - 16 conceded in 38 games, 26 clean sheets, 16.01 xG against (0.42 per game)

And here is list of changes compared to Blue:
- CM(AT) to BBM(S)
- DLP(S) to DM(D)
- BPD to CD
- SK(S) to SK(D)
- Removed Take More Risks from every player possible (so everyone but Shadow Strikers)
- Removed Get Further Forward from IWBs
- Defensive Corners and Free Kicks from Pheonix (they are a little more solid defensively from my test), and Attacking Throw ins also from Phoenix (this is just my personal preference)

xxvnc said: would you have a filter with this data to search within the game? @Egraam Expand

You mean to see those ratings inside the game? I don't think that's possible, you'd need to  somehow modify the game probably, and what I do is pretty simple - I check for player's position, then based on their position there are different weights and attributes (they are from @Mark's table). Here is an example for Central Defender:



What I do is I multiply attributes by weights and add them to each other (so Decisions*0.13+Positioning*0.10...+Pace*0.08). The last step I do is I standardize the data, so ratings for all the positions are on the same 1-20 scale (I multiply the rating by 1/sum of weights for selected position).

You could do all of that using calculator, just looking at player's profile inside the game, it's just a lot of work to do that for the whole team/multiple players so I wrote a script to do it faster.


UPDATE:

I've also simplified the process of importing data, so you won't have to click as much.

Now all you have to do is name the html file "data" (file that you were getting after pressing ctrl+p on all selected players, and copying data from into excel) and put it in the team_selector folder (the same folder where there was previously an excel fille).

This is the html file I'm talking about:



And you should put it here (just replace the file that is there):



Here is the link to the updated version - https://www.mediafire.com/file/r78zzz56s87wdqp/player_ratings_3.rar/file

The excel version is still valid, this one just saves you a couple of clicks, because you don't have to copy the data into excel.

There was an issue with the script when it comes to choosing the players from the right positions: for example AMC showed Ansu Fati who is AM(RL), ST (C) - because the script looked for AM and then (C). I've managed to fix that, hopefully there aren't any other bugs - https://www.mediafire.com/file/317r4hohdxideri/player_ratings_2.rar/file

I've also included scouting view (Scouting Attributes.fmf) which works the same way as attributes view:



Just remember to copy without "sigames.com" at the bottom (or you can copy with it, just remove it from the excel file).



The advantage over Genie Scout is that Genie Scout shows you all the players in the game - even those ones that aren't interested in coming to your team - while here it will only show players from you player search - so you can choose only the ones that are interested in transfer or loan

thepunisher23 said: for me its not working when I press on a position nothing is displayed, I use libre office, should I use microsoft office? Expand

I've tried it with LibreOffice as well and it worked for me.

When saving the file select the "Use Excel 2007-365 Format" option:


Also make sure your file looks like that after pasting the data:



You can close the file and open it once again after saving to check if it looks like that. Remember that the file has to be called "data" and be in the same folder as "team_selector.exe"

I don't know if it will be useful for anyone but I wrote a python app to quickly calculate player ratings, based on attribute percentage values that @Mark  has shared.

You need to do a few things for it to work but it could be used to help with team selection.

Here is what you need to do:

1. Download the rar from here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/oji710cmrcutec2/player_ratings.rar/file
2. Unpack it
3. There should be file "Attributes.fmf" inside. Put it in your Football Manager 2021 -> squad views folder. Go into the game, to squad tab and import the view.



Once you've imported it, it should look like this:



Click on one of the players, press Ctrl+A, then Ctrl+P, you should get a pop-up like that:



Click Web Page, press Ok and save the file.

Now open the file you have saved it should look like that:




Copy all of it except the "sigames.com" at the bottom.




Go to the folder you have downloaded previously, go into the team_selector folder, and find an Excel file named "data".



Open it, and paste what you have copied like that:



Now you are all done, find the "team_selector.exe" file and open it:



Now, when you click on the position, you should see players from your team that play in that positon and their ratings.






Now if you want to calculate it for a different team, you just need to replace the data in the excel file.

Ratings are on scale from 1-20. Only players that are at least "competent" in the select position are displayed.

I've used only the most important attributes that @Mark  posted (over 6%), maybe I'll add more later.


I know it's quite a lot hassle to make it work, but I wrote it mostly to practice my python skills, and I've thought maybe someone will find it useful.

Here is the repository with source code if someone was interested: https://github.com/Egraam20/fm_player_ratings

I'd say it's even more than similar - it's basically the exact same tactic as this one https://fm-arena.com/thread/1029-zaz-blue-3-0-pf-tweak/ (identical roles, player instructions, team instructions, set pieces and formation) just with Advanced Forwards instead of Pressing Forwards.

Machismo said: I play with non-elite teams e.g. mid to lower EPL.  I want either one multi-task tactic or a combo of two or three interchangeable tactics during the match.
1) All must include 3 at the back, + 1 or 2 DMs. + 2 or 3 SSs.
2) Three levels to be Standard tactic + super defensive (e.g. vs elite) + all out late goal attack.
3) ALL three tactics based on 3-at-the-back.
4) And mid or lower EPL teams.

(perhaps changing mentality will be enough) Expand

You could go for Threedom V3 as the base tactic as it's the best rated 3 at the back tactic on this patch, ZaZ - Copper as the defensive one because it has the best defence on this patch (maybe you could even start with balanced/cautious vs elite teams away, not 100% sure though as I haven't played with that tactic much), and for the 3rd, more attacking slot, use Threedom V2 because it scores a bit more than V3 and maybe even switch to attacking/very attacking, but that could be risky if you are a low table EPL team. Another option, to invest even more in the offense, would be to go for higher/much higher defensive line, depending on how much do you need the goal and are willing to risk.

babemocni1988 said: Thia seems like real revolution,have you tested it more? Expand

Yes, tried and tested, from my own experience the improvement is even a bit bigger than the fmarena test is showing, because the tactic demands less intensity from the players - with V2 I often found my players, especially wingers, to be already fatigued at half time, here it's not as big of a problem, so it's easier to survive those gameweeks when you are playing every 3 days.

Threedom V3 is here, and it's quite a big tactical revolution, because I've finally managed to get rid of extreme gegenpressing - much higher LOE is still there, but pressing intesity has been lowered from much more urgent to slightly more urgent (100% to 50%) and counterpress has been removed.

Full list of changes:
- Removed Counterpress
- Pressing Intensity: Much More Urgent -> Slightly More Urgent (2 ticks down)
- Added Tight Marking
- Added Play for set pieces
- Added Hold Position to Wingers

Updated main post with the file.



Real only 18 conceded, Elche was predicted like 19th or 18th so it's still a good overachievement, but they had 3rd goal difference in the league, so perhaps a bit unlucky point result there.

Machismo said: Just loaded 3Dom.  Was using Zaz blue with a mid-table team.  Plenty of goals especially from corners resulting from DWs failed byline crosses.  But got crushed by elite Mancity.  Switched to Zaz Copper Very defensive but not much happening up front.  Hoping 3Dom's DWs breathe some life into 3 at the back. 

This thread has been quiet for six weeks.  Have you moved on from 3Dom v2? Expand

I've been more focused on improving Waves for a while, which I believe to be my best tactic at the moment, that's why there weren't any updates here. Though while testing different tweaks for Waves, I've come up with some ideas which could improve a tactic's defense - which is the main weakness of this tactic. I'll be testing them soon, and will share the updated version of Threedom, if the results are good.

V2 Update:

- Added Play for set pieces
- Tempo from Higher to Extremely High
- Ball playing defenders to central defenders

Updated the main post with the file

Here are results for Blue:



Red is clearly a better mid table tactic - even if we exclude the bad Chester performance, it got better results with every team apart from Accrington (but still there was only 4 point difference there).
Blue got better results with underdog teams - mainly because how much better it performed with West Brom and Dover - Red got better results with 3/6 of the teams, so part of it could be just randomness.
And it seems like Hungerford is just a really bad team, no matter what tactic you use with it.

Here are the save files if anyone wanted to get more data from them (they were too big to upload directly to fmarena):

Blue - https://www.mediafire.com/file/fflxk98xz5kr6j5/ZaZ_Blue_-_Results.fm/file
Red - https://www.mediafire.com/file/gzmjar1xsfesetb/ZaZ_Red_-_Results.fm/file

I've run an english league test with ZaZ Red - 7 leagues, 14 teams, using worst team and mid-table team from every league, to see how it performs with underdogs across different levels of play and using different teams.
I know that a lot of people think Fulham is the worst team in Premier League, because that's what the game says when you are choosing a team, but once you get into the actual game, and go to media prediction, you can see that West Brom is by far the worst team in EPL.




That's how the teams for the test were chosen - last and mid-table teams according to the media prediction, from Premier League to Vanarama National North/South.

Some info about the save:
- All teams have the same manager with default stats, but with experience and license automatically chosen by the game.
- There is a 5-year embargo placed on all the teams in the game, to reduce randomness a little bit.
- In-game editor has been used only to make managers unsackable
- Holiday mode, squad picked by assman, loaded the tactic, checked "use the current tactic", and holidayed until 30th May

I'll try to run the same test with Blue some time soon.

Here are the results:



Premier League and Championship:



League One and League Two:



Vanarama National:



Vanarama National North/South:

Sandro said: Hi,

The tactic you upload has the striker at the center but the screenshot shows the striker at the left.

Which one is correct? Have you tested with the striker at the center? Expand

Sorry, I have uploaded a wrong file (this was an older file from a different folder and I've mixed them up), striker should be on the left, this was the one I tested, should be fixed now.