Delicious said: I didn't saw that from the video, maybe i went blind, can you explain me how you guys setuped it? Because to me something seem off, i mean :
- did you simulated and reloeaded? (for 500times each_category) without freezing?
If you are after shape system is a thing, but mentalities play their role as well, i mean if you do that in a normal game scenario, in order to sustain a full attacking-gunho tactic you need to rest players for 2-3 days (exagerating), literally the players can't sustain it, i am getting difficulties playing balanced (talking about energies/condition), and i do use gun-ho when i want to score or all-in.
I was even tracking home and away results, and never happened that some tactics gave more then 1-3 more wins compared to others on away games, but that's was for FM23, i will redo that for FM25 i guess.
Btw let me know, ofc if you want, how the test was setuped, i might make some scripts for that in the future. Expand
Zeyad said: You can see whether the players are "low" or "fresh" if you add the fatigue column. However I still suspect there are degrees to "fresh" (for example from 1000 to 600) which also make a difference to the results and there is no way to know them without an external tool on the in game editor. Similar to condition Expand
I usually add a column for fatigue in the squad view, but most people don't care much about it, because fatigue is an obscure feature of FM.
Zeyad said: Great work and sound discoveries backed by evidence and a lot of trials. I think Max should have mentioned the neutral and home venue trials conducted that you showed here Zaz would have added even more certainty and credibility.
Well done to both of you! Expand
I don't blame the guy, because my results were supposed to be just an extra to his video, and the main focus was about home advantage.
I'm now checking the influence of fatigue in performance, and I am surprised about how much it affects points per match. Keep in mind that fatigue goes from -500 to 1000, and you only see "Rst" when the hidden value is at 601+, so it is not uncommon for lots of people to play a good part of the season with high fatigue without knowing, which hinders their performance in late season. (If anyone is interested, players have peak performance with low fatigue, playing worse when they are fresh or becoming fatigued, and even worst when they are fatigued.)
Delicious said: Interesting, for me there is something you guys should've considered :
When you compare 2 tactics, setup etc, i would even consider if 4222N counter 3421, like the results where altered because 4222 counter 3421 instance first of all.
Just trying to give you some thoughts to think about.
Hope it can helps for future projects! Expand
The shape is irrelevant. We did run the same setup in both neutral and home grounds, so we could use neutral results for control. Below is a table showing rate of win, draw, lose, points per match, goals per match, and difference in points. You can clearly see that the tactics are evenly matched at neutral grounds, and the team playing at home always have the advantage. However, the defensive tactic is detrimental to performance when playing away from home.
letsgo9 said: Definitelly something to think about. But when actually playing games, mainly if u r a underdog team, balanced mentality seems way superior than attacking. Expand
Keep in mind that our concept of "defensive tactic" was not based on mentality, but goals conceded in FM-Arena table. We picked the highest goal scoring and goal conceded tactics in the top 10 (which changed after we started testing, but it doesn't matter much for the results).
Using a more defensive tactic than your opponent, away from home, is detrimental to win rate. It is fine if you want to decrease the chance to concede goals, but it does not increase the chance of winning or scoring points overall. Check more about that in the video below.
Gracolas said: gotcha, but when games are scheduled, doesnt FM automatically puts some recovery sessions? I heard somewhere in Evidence based saying that its actually better to give Rest instead of recovery sessions, thats why im wondering Expand
I recommend setting the training after the matches are scheduled for the year, so it will only be changed for some specific matches (like later stages of cups). You don't need to worry about rest or recovery sessions, since players are already set to rest when tired. If the game add any of these sessions, you can just replace by match practice, or physical > attacking > defending (maximum of one physical per day).
Gracolas said: how does it look if you have 1 or 2 games a week? Expand
The schedule is set in a way that is effective during the entire year, including pre-season, weeks without matches, or weeks with three matches. Just set it up once a year and forget about it.
sponsorkindest said: its insane, how good this tactic is defensively despite having 7 players on attack and attacking mentality. @ZaZ : Did you try this on balanced mentality ? Expand
Not yet, but might try later. Thanks for the tip.
P.S.: Just tested, and results were not very good.
LaXatiif said: @ZaZ Have you tried the Libero? DM+DLP or other combo (maybe VOL+DLP)... Expand
I am currently testing other stuff, like influence of preferred foot for each position, defensive tactics away from home, and the best team talks for each occasion. Every now and then I test some tactic, but I believe FM-Arena is already well served in good tactics since it increased the volume of testing.
- did you simulated and reloeaded? (for 500times each_category) without freezing?
If you are after shape system is a thing, but mentalities play their role as well, i mean if you do that in a normal game scenario, in order to sustain a full attacking-gunho tactic you need to rest players for 2-3 days (exagerating), literally the players can't sustain it, i am getting difficulties playing balanced (talking about energies/condition), and i do use gun-ho when i want to score or all-in.
I was even tracking home and away results, and never happened that some tactics gave more then 1-3 more wins compared to others on away games, but that's was for FM23, i will redo that for FM25 i guess.
Btw let me know, ofc if you want, how the test was setuped, i might make some scripts for that in the future.
He explains at minute 2:55.
I usually add a column for fatigue in the squad view, but most people don't care much about it, because fatigue is an obscure feature of FM.
Well done to both of you!
I don't blame the guy, because my results were supposed to be just an extra to his video, and the main focus was about home advantage.
I'm now checking the influence of fatigue in performance, and I am surprised about how much it affects points per match. Keep in mind that fatigue goes from -500 to 1000, and you only see "Rst" when the hidden value is at 601+, so it is not uncommon for lots of people to play a good part of the season with high fatigue without knowing, which hinders their performance in late season. (If anyone is interested, players have peak performance with low fatigue, playing worse when they are fresh or becoming fatigued, and even worst when they are fatigued.)
When you compare 2 tactics, setup etc, i would even consider if 4222N counter 3421, like the results where altered because 4222 counter 3421 instance first of all.
Just trying to give you some thoughts to think about.
Hope it can helps for future projects!
The shape is irrelevant. We did run the same setup in both neutral and home grounds, so we could use neutral results for control. Below is a table showing rate of win, draw, lose, points per match, goals per match, and difference in points. You can clearly see that the tactics are evenly matched at neutral grounds, and the team playing at home always have the advantage. However, the defensive tactic is detrimental to performance when playing away from home.
Keep in mind that our concept of "defensive tactic" was not based on mentality, but goals conceded in FM-Arena table. We picked the highest goal scoring and goal conceded tactics in the top 10 (which changed after we started testing, but it doesn't matter much for the results).
I recommend setting the training after the matches are scheduled for the year, so it will only be changed for some specific matches (like later stages of cups). You don't need to worry about rest or recovery sessions, since players are already set to rest when tired. If the game add any of these sessions, you can just replace by match practice, or physical > attacking > defending (maximum of one physical per day).
The schedule is set in a way that is effective during the entire year, including pre-season, weeks without matches, or weeks with three matches. Just set it up once a year and forget about it.
Not yet, but might try later. Thanks for the tip.
P.S.: Just tested, and results were not very good.
I am currently testing other stuff, like influence of preferred foot for each position, defensive tactics away from home, and the best team talks for each occasion. Every now and then I test some tactic, but I believe FM-Arena is already well served in good tactics since it increased the volume of testing.