I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic?
The yellow cards are mostly caused by the 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' PIs that all the meta tactics have. You can probably remove those instructions without it affecting your performance too much, if the yellows are bothering you.
johnconnerson said: I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic? Expand
Cherknam said: The yellow cards are mostly caused by the 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' PIs that all the meta tactics have. You can probably remove those instructions without it affecting your performance too much, if the yellows are bothering you. Expand
Now, just think what if you could remove 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' and have the same performance without them as with them then who would use them in that case? It doesn't make sense.
It's always "trade off", you get more yellow cards but you also get better results. It's as simple as that.
There are no "free" performance boosts in this this game, everything has a price otherwise having many TIs would not make sense.
johnconnerson said: I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic? Expand
Alternatively, you can take any top tactic and remove 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' tactical instruction and then offer it for the testing and see how much points it drops without it.
johnconnerson said: I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic? Expand
When in a match if my team has a lead by 2-3 goals then I always remove Get stuck in and Tackle Harder and that way I reduce the amount of cards my teams get during a season.
Lapidus said: Now, just think what if you could remove 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' and have the same performance without them as with them then who would use them in that case? It doesn't make sense.
It's always "trade off", you get more yellow cards but you also get better results. It's as simple as that.
There are no "free" performance boosts in this this game, everything has a price otherwise having many TIs would not make sense. Expand
I didn't say that it would have the same performance, nor did I say that it wasn't a trade off. My point was that the effect of those instructions is marginal and, from my experience, only amounts to a loss of a few expected points per season, which in some cases may be counteracted by not having as many key players suspended.
Cherknam said: I didn't say that it would have the same performance, nor did I say that it wasn't a trade off. My point was that the effect of those instructions is marginal and, from my experience, only amounts to a loss of a few expected points per season, which in some cases may be counteracted by not having as many key players suspended. Expand
I'm not sure about "marginal".
I recall there was a test "Tackle Harder" vs "Easy Off Tackles" and the score dropped from 60 pts to 42 pts so -18 pts
Of course, it was with "Easy Off Tackles" and just with "Normal Tackles" the drop could be much less but anyway there's only way to say for sure is to test it.
It depends on your type of players, specific...players with a high attribute called 'Dirtiness' causes this. Many FM players think that a high Aggression leads to many yellow and red cards, but that's not correct. Jayhuahua on YouTube once conducted an experiment (with FM23) with players who have 20 aggression and 1 dirtiness, and players with 1 aggression and 20 dirtiness. 20 aggression almost never resulted in a yellow card in a season, while 20 dirtiness resulted in almost one card per match. Search on YouTube for 'Is Aggression Good or Bad? Football Manager 2023 Experiment.' to see his experiment.
'Dirtiness' is a hidden attribute you can’t find that in the attributes (unless your using the ingame editor of Genie scout) but you can reveal it with scouting reports and coach reports.
These are the things you can do (in the short and long term) to prevent getting too many cards:
Short term: • If you're playing against a weaker team, remove the 'Get stuck in' option from your tactics. Note that you can also assign this option individually to players within your tactics so don’t forget those. • If you're leading by 2 goals during the match, remove the 'Get stuck in' option. Scoring more goals is unnecessary at that point; focus on finishing the match (unless you need to work on goal difference for promotion or similar reasons). • Ensure that, in addition to your main tactic, you have a secondary tactic that concedes less goals and doesn't include 'Get stuck in.' Choose one with the same formation or one that your current starting eleven can easily adapt to without substitutions.
Longer term: • Always scout a player before buying them. 'Dirtiness' is a hidden attribute, so you won't see it at first glance. When considering signing players, if you read something like 'a competitive streak' in a scouting report, you'll know that they have a high 'Dirtiness' rating. • Also, check a player's stats before signing them. If they consistently receive many cards in a season, you'll know their 'Dirtiness' is high. You can also assess the ratio of yellow cards to fouls committed. If this ratio is high, their 'Dirtiness' is also high. • Look at your own players' coach reports. If it mentions 'a competitive streak,' that's a sign to be cautious. Make sure you don't have too many players like that in your team! • If you have a youth player with many yellow cards or 'a competitive streak' in the coach report, ensure they have a mentor with a good personality. Don't loan them out; keep them within your team and try to reduce their 'Dirtiness.' • Ensure that your head of youth development doesn't have a high 'Dirtiness' attribute, as they will pass this on to new youth players. The personality of the head of youth development also determines the types of personalities that come from the youth academy.
I don't know what decisions does to yellow and red cards despite the dirtiness rating. maybe something to test. Decisions could be involved in this higher decisions perhaps mean less dumb tackles that causes a booking. but I haven't seen any testing results on the web about that. maybe something to test when I'm on summer holiday and have more time.
hopes this helps a bit for you and perhaps others.
johnconnerson said: I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic? Expand
I usually just accept this will happen and substitute accordingly and rotate around the suspensions. Even with a ton of yellow cards the red cards aren't that common, maybe a couple of games per season where it's really an issue.
johnconnerson said: I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic? Expand
The score dropped from 67.4 pts to 62.3 pts so the difference is just about 4 pts. I'd say it isn't a big difference so if you don't happy about the high amount of cards your team gets during a season then you can remove "Tackle Harder" and "Get Stuck In".
The score dropped from 67.4 pts to 62.3 pts so the difference is just about 4 pts. I'd say it isn't a big difference so if you don't happy about the high amount of cards your team gets during a season then you can remove "Tackle Harder" and "Get Stuck In". Expand
5 points for a "single" setting? I'd say it's quite a big effect. Probably more than almost any other buttons you can change in a tactic.
Yarema said: 5 points for a "single" setting? I'd say it's quite a big effect. Probably more than almost any other buttons you can change in a tactic. Expand
That is less than 2 wins in a season. I also pay attention to the referee stats and change to it earlier if I am expecting the ref to go hard. I generally ease off tackles for the PI of players getting yellows, and then after two team yellows drop Get Stuck In to neutral and put ease off tackles on all the defensive players. If I get a third yellow I go Stay On Feet. Seems to work. Still dominating XG and still winning most games. 62 points is still very respectable
Personally I remove get stuck in from all tactics since I don’t believe it does anything if the players already have tackle harder. Then like Mark I ease off tackles for anyone getting yellows. It’s pretty rare for me to get more than one or two red cards per season. Getting a lot of yellows doesn’t bother me; sure I get some suspensions for accumulated yellows but I rotate a lot anyway so it’s just rearranging which games the player gets rested. I do have a pretty strict code of conduct ( it’s either the one recommended by ZaZ or a slight modification).
I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic?
The yellow cards are mostly caused by the 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' PIs that all the meta tactics have. You can probably remove those instructions without it affecting your performance too much, if the yellows are bothering you.
johnconnerson said: I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic?
Cherknam said: The yellow cards are mostly caused by the 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' PIs that all the meta tactics have. You can probably remove those instructions without it affecting your performance too much, if the yellows are bothering you.
Now, just think what if you could remove 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' and have the same performance without them as with them then who would use them in that case? It doesn't make sense.
It's always "trade off", you get more yellow cards but you also get better results. It's as simple as that.
There are no "free" performance boosts in this this game, everything has a price otherwise having many TIs would not make sense.
johnconnerson said: I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic?
Alternatively, you can take any top tactic and remove 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' tactical instruction and then offer it for the testing and see how much points it drops without it.
johnconnerson said: I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic?
When in a match if my team has a lead by 2-3 goals then I always remove Get stuck in and Tackle Harder and that way I reduce the amount of cards my teams get during a season.
Lapidus said: Now, just think what if you could remove 'Get stuck in' TI and 'Tackle Harder' and have the same performance without them as with them then who would use them in that case? It doesn't make sense.
It's always "trade off", you get more yellow cards but you also get better results. It's as simple as that.
There are no "free" performance boosts in this this game, everything has a price otherwise having many TIs would not make sense.
I didn't say that it would have the same performance, nor did I say that it wasn't a trade off. My point was that the effect of those instructions is marginal and, from my experience, only amounts to a loss of a few expected points per season, which in some cases may be counteracted by not having as many key players suspended.
Cherknam said: I didn't say that it would have the same performance, nor did I say that it wasn't a trade off. My point was that the effect of those instructions is marginal and, from my experience, only amounts to a loss of a few expected points per season, which in some cases may be counteracted by not having as many key players suspended.
I'm not sure about "marginal".
I recall there was a test "Tackle Harder" vs "Easy Off Tackles" and the score dropped from 60 pts to 42 pts so -18 pts
Of course, it was with "Easy Off Tackles" and just with "Normal Tackles" the drop could be much less but anyway there's only way to say for sure is to test it.
Lets see how Katana ATT v1.9 gets on without get stuck in and tackle harder
https://fm-arena.com/thread/10936-katana-4231-att-v1-9-no-th-no-gsi/
It depends on your type of players, specific...players with a high attribute called 'Dirtiness' causes this. Many FM players think that a high Aggression leads to many yellow and red cards, but that's not correct. Jayhuahua on YouTube once conducted an experiment (with FM23) with players who have 20 aggression and 1 dirtiness, and players with 1 aggression and 20 dirtiness. 20 aggression almost never resulted in a yellow card in a season, while 20 dirtiness resulted in almost one card per match. Search on YouTube for 'Is Aggression Good or Bad? Football Manager 2023 Experiment.' to see his experiment.
'Dirtiness' is a hidden attribute you can’t find that in the attributes (unless your using the ingame editor of Genie scout) but you can reveal it with scouting reports and coach reports.
These are the things you can do (in the short and long term) to prevent getting too many cards:
Short term:
• If you're playing against a weaker team, remove the 'Get stuck in' option from your tactics. Note that you can also assign this option individually to players within your tactics so don’t forget those.
• If you're leading by 2 goals during the match, remove the 'Get stuck in' option. Scoring more goals is unnecessary at that point; focus on finishing the match (unless you need to work on goal difference for promotion or similar reasons).
• Ensure that, in addition to your main tactic, you have a secondary tactic that concedes less goals and doesn't include 'Get stuck in.' Choose one with the same formation or one that your current starting eleven can easily adapt to without substitutions.
Longer term:
• Always scout a player before buying them. 'Dirtiness' is a hidden attribute, so you won't see it at first glance. When considering signing players, if you read something like 'a competitive streak' in a scouting report, you'll know that they have a high 'Dirtiness' rating.
• Also, check a player's stats before signing them. If they consistently receive many cards in a season, you'll know their 'Dirtiness' is high. You can also assess the ratio of yellow cards to fouls committed. If this ratio is high, their 'Dirtiness' is also high.
• Look at your own players' coach reports. If it mentions 'a competitive streak,' that's a sign to be cautious. Make sure you don't have too many players like that in your team!
• If you have a youth player with many yellow cards or 'a competitive streak' in the coach report, ensure they have a mentor with a good personality. Don't loan them out; keep them within your team and try to reduce their 'Dirtiness.'
• Ensure that your head of youth development doesn't have a high 'Dirtiness' attribute, as they will pass this on to new youth players. The personality of the head of youth development also determines the types of personalities that come from the youth academy.
I don't know what decisions does to yellow and red cards despite the dirtiness rating. maybe something to test. Decisions could be involved in this higher decisions perhaps mean less dumb tackles that causes a booking. but I haven't seen any testing results on the web about that. maybe something to test when I'm on summer holiday and have more time.
hopes this helps a bit for you and perhaps others.
This is last years preliminary test https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/18382/
johnconnerson said: I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic?
I usually just accept this will happen and substitute accordingly and rotate around the suspensions. Even with a ton of yellow cards the red cards aren't that common, maybe a couple of games per season where it's really an issue.
johnconnerson said: I could just be unlucky, but it seems like a lot of the meta tactics generate a lot of yellow cards. Why is that? It's something I've noticed over the last few games, so it isn't just a FM24 issue.
I recently started a new save using the Katana 4231 tactic and 7 games in my team leads the league in yellow cards. More than DOUBLE the amount as the team ranked 2nd. Is there a way to alleviate that or is that the price I pay for a good defensive tactic?
Ok, it's been tested now.
Katana tactic with "Tackle Harder" and "Gut Stuck In" ( 67.4 pts ) - https://fm-arena.com/thread/10629-katana-4231-att-103p-v1-9/
Katana tactic without "Tackle Harder" and "Gut Stuck In" ( 62.3 pts ) - https://fm-arena.com/thread/10936-katana-4231-att-v1-9-no-th-no-gsi/
The score dropped from 67.4 pts to 62.3 pts so the difference is just about 4 pts. I'd say it isn't a big difference so if you don't happy about the high amount of cards your team gets during a season then you can remove "Tackle Harder" and "Get Stuck In".
CBP87 said: Lets see how Katana ATT v1.9 gets on without get stuck in and tackle harder
https://fm-arena.com/thread/10936-katana-4231-att-v1-9-no-th-no-gsi/
Thanks to @CBP87 for uploading the tactic
Now, we know the difference
Lapidus said: Ok, it's been tested now.
Katana tactic with "Tackle Harder" and "Gut Stuck In" ( 67.4 pts ) - https://fm-arena.com/thread/10629-katana-4231-att-103p-v1-9/
Katana tactic without "Tackle Harder" and "Gut Stuck In" ( 62.3 pts ) - https://fm-arena.com/thread/10936-katana-4231-att-v1-9-no-th-no-gsi/
The score dropped from 67.4 pts to 62.3 pts so the difference is just about 4 pts. I'd say it isn't a big difference so if you don't happy about the high amount of cards your team gets during a season then you can remove "Tackle Harder" and "Get Stuck In".
5 points for a "single" setting? I'd say it's quite a big effect. Probably more than almost any other buttons you can change in a tactic.
Yarema said: 5 points for a "single" setting? I'd say it's quite a big effect. Probably more than almost any other buttons you can change in a tactic.
That is less than 2 wins in a season. I also pay attention to the referee stats and change to it earlier if I am expecting the ref to go hard. I generally ease off tackles for the PI of players getting yellows, and then after two team yellows drop Get Stuck In to neutral and put ease off tackles on all the defensive players. If I get a third yellow I go Stay On Feet. Seems to work. Still dominating XG and still winning most games. 62 points is still very respectable
Personally I remove get stuck in from all tactics since I don’t believe it does anything if the players already have tackle harder. Then like Mark I ease off tackles for anyone getting yellows. It’s pretty rare for me to get more than one or two red cards per season. Getting a lot of yellows doesn’t bother me; sure I get some suspensions for accumulated yellows but I rotate a lot anyway so it’s just rearranging which games the player gets rested. I do have a pretty strict code of conduct ( it’s either the one recommended by ZaZ or a slight modification).