Footballenjoyer said: If you want to maximize dribbling, wouldn't Ball Distribution and move all your players to Attacking Units be more efficient? Expand
i did't test [ball Distribution] as the Description has no "dribbling" , the Description said "First touch ,anticipation ..." I'll test it on the weekend to see if it makes a difference (all in Attacking team).
Footballenjoyer said: It's match preparation. Also doesn't training position distribute weighting into Technical and Mental attribute?
No I mean, the natural position of the players as they were "born" into the game. For example, since the game favor ST and AMR/L for the fastest players in the game for regens. You just grab those players and put them in the reserve with the same training schedule but only play them lets say LB, even if they become natural at LB - Would the game still count them as ST and give them ST-level growth rather than LB growth?
Profiting from youth transfers is not really a thing in lower league saves no? This strategy basically allow you to turn Mediocre young 14/14 free transfers you picked up into serious players that can carry you into Champions league etc. Any guys that you have upgraded on usually just rot in reserve collecting pay check until you can loan them out/sell them for any amount just to get wages off the books. Expand
——Would the game still count them as ST and give them ST-level growth rather than LB growth? I'm curious too. (Actually I mean the same thing as you, but the translator can't accurately translate it)
But I'm not sure there's any way to test it, if you can think of any way to control the variables of the test can you say (Because they actually differ so little, it may take a very, very large sample of tests to show a difference )
in the in-game-editor edit player attribute detail--positions If I change these positional values They look the same in Game interface:"born" or "train to Familiarity with this" or "edit to 20 Familiarity "
harvestgreen22 said: i did't test [ball Distribution] as the Description has no "dribbling" , the Description said "First touch ,anticipation ..." I'll test it on the weekend to see if it makes a difference (all in Attacking team). Expand
Oh Im not on FM24 so disregard that, maybe they changed it. same with match preparation stuff, they used to have light training that's just for match preparation in older version of FMs.
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work Expand
cohesion: no , That's not going to change unless you add very, very many new players to your team . match, friendly match can increase it , If I add a lot of new players in the new season. I'll add some training on the spot to increase it
tactic knowledge : no , sharpness: yes
If you keep training a lot, you won't lose too much sharpness, but you will increase the risk of injury.
If you want enough sharpness, in addition to training, you can rely on match or friendly match
when I play , between July and August (before the season started) , I will play friendly matches twice a week, as well as add some temporary sharpness training
By the start of the season, sharpness can be fine, And as the season starts, the intensity of the match keeps sharpness high, even though resting all week
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work Expand
——lso in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards
Yes you can. You can combine freely,
For example
Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑ first servel season , Then increase the total CA rapidly Or start by rapidly increasing total CA first, Then select Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑
Because: When your CA is low, far from the maximum PA, for example, your player is 60CA, but he has 160 PA At this point, his acquired attributes will be much larger.
When your CA is high, close to the maximum PA, let's say your player is 140CA, but he has 160 PA At this point, his attributes will be much smaller.
So your training strategy, when the difference between CA and the maximum PA is large, will work faster What strategy do you adopt, depending on your needs, for example, you need someone to quickly form a "fighting force" in the team, that faster to improve the CA
There's no "right answer," just go with what you like
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work Expand
One more note:
Even if the player is "fully practiced" For example, he has 150CA, he has 150PA, Training can also do a slow "attribute reallocation" on him.
Of course, this speed (150CA,150PA) is much slower, Compared to, say, 50CA, 150PA, there's a big difference between them (150-50=100)
*I don't know if this makes it clear, because the translator might lose or mistranslate some meaning
Ok so I tested this on my Ajax save, I selected players who have a professionalism over -
This is how they started, as you can see I am already 8 games into the season, ignore Tenas, I didn't mean to put him in there but take note of the others. So there are 4 regens in there. I didn't train roles, just quickness in additional focus. First 2 attribute columns are Acceleration and Pace. I used training method 4.
End of season -
As you can see, there is definitely an increase, there is only Moreira who it hasn't really impacted
Also CA did go up, lowest increase was 6 points, with the highest being 15
Start of test -
End of season -
Going to test again but using my training schedule but with those players locked in in position but no roles trained and quickness still as additional focus
harvestgreen22 said: ——lso in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards
Yes you can. You can combine freely,
For example
Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑ first servel season , Then increase the total CA rapidly Or start by rapidly increasing total CA first, Then select Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑
Because: When your CA is low, far from the maximum PA, for example, your player is 60CA, but he has 160 PA At this point, his acquired attributes will be much larger.
When your CA is high, close to the maximum PA, let's say your player is 140CA, but he has 160 PA At this point, his attributes will be much smaller.
So your training strategy, when the difference between CA and the maximum PA is large, will work faster What strategy do you adopt, depending on your needs, for example, you need someone to quickly form a "fighting force" in the team, that faster to improve the CA
There's no "right answer," just go with what you like Expand
So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals? (i am not that experienced in training, never used it really) or would it be better to put regens/group of players you will evolve and put them on u21/u23 and have the train on your schedules?
IlPadreMogens said: So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals? (i am not that experienced in training, never used it really) or would it be better to put regens/group of players you will evolve and put them on u21/u23 and have the train on your schedules? Expand
——So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
first season （Rest）no training+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
second season and onwards [Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
——would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals?
the only way is to put them to U20/U18/U21/U23 team , (This is ok, but you need additional operations, and it is more cumbersome to operate) Then, on the duties page, Then, on the duties page, Change U20/U18 training to be controlled by you It's the only way I know
I've read through the whole thing and I agree this is revolutionary. However, I have a problem with the attributes being prioritized. Pace and Acceleration are important for all positions, but I am not too sure about the importance of Jumping Reach for positions other than Centerback. This is because of this post from FM21 where some developers used machine learning in order to create attribute weights and I believe until an updated study is done is the best we have in terms of information on the best attributes.
I personally for FM24 use a derivative one of Zaz's weight of the study's weightings. These are all the weightings, up to 100, that are above 45 in my weightings. Not sure if it is the best weightings but it is what I use to evaluate players. Is there a way to fit the trainings to fit the way I want to train my players, (not prioritizing Jumping Reach)
Han106 said: I've read through the whole thing and I agree this is revolutionary. However, I have a problem with the attributes being prioritized. Pace and Acceleration are important for all positions, but I am not too sure about the importance of Jumping Reach for positions other than Centerback. This is because of this post from FM21 where some developers used machine learning in order to create attribute weights and I believe until an updated study is done is the best we have in terms of information on the best attributes.
I personally for FM24 use a derivative one of Zaz's weight of the study's weightings. These are all the weightings, up to 100, that are above 45 in my weightings. Not sure if it is the best weightings but it is what I use to evaluate players. Is there a way to fit the trainings to fit the way I want to train my players, (not prioritizing Jumping Reach)
(requested by reply and private message) I couldn't send a picture in a private message, so send it here
In addition , all my injuries in two seasons gaming (this sample size is small, not necessarily the full story , but at least give a blurry general indication) Two season I participated in all match, won 9 championships. Due to few training programs, injuries were very rare,
and only had 1 serious injury 11 medium injury 15 small injury
harvestgreen22 said: This is an actual game I made to test the effect, (At the bottom of the list are four players who have only been with the team for one season) They all started with about 60-70 CA , 200PA, 16 Professionalism , The initial attribute is 14 Pace, 14 Acceleration, 14 Jumping reach , and the picture now is Just finished the second season Now they can play very well in the top England Premier League. Won most the games, even though they only have 90-100CA now , as I have a higher Pace than my opponents
in the picture above I'm using this
What I originally meant in post was that you can find the mechanics of the game in the table: the game didn't get it right, and that's the responsibility of the game maker , not gamer . I'm actually disappointed with the current gaming system
( I am a new player and had just started playing 100-200 hours, more than half of which I spent testing the game mechanics )
And the four schedules I gave To get their benefits you have to suffer some drawbacks , you can do whatever you want, According to actual requirements Expand
If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Footballenjoyer said: No I mean, the natural position of the players as they were "born" into the game. For example, since the game favor ST and AMR/L for the fastest players in the game for regens. You just grab those players and put them in the reserve with the same training schedule but only play them lets say LB, even if they become natural at LB - Would the game still count them as ST and give them ST-level growth rather than LB growth? Expand
Training players in multiple positions will increase the weight of their attributes, making them reach PA at a lower lever of performance. I don't know the details, but it probably gets the highest weight of all proficient positions, scaled by their proficiency in that position. You can easily verify that on Editor, just add 20 to another position like Winger or Striker, and CA usually goes up. That is why I only train players in the opposite side of same position, like AML - AMR and DR - DL.
@harvestgreen22 Not easy to test, but in theory with how little sessions it takes to redistribute, can you just use vacation days to train certain player groups on certain days. Like Monday can be Attacker day and Wednesday can be Defender Day.
ZaZ said: If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting. Expand
Yeah I thought about it, It's probably more efficient to do the full rest or even some form of the 2x match practice double intensity practice for youth/reserve players to get them to a speed that's usable in the first team.
In the first team, you probably just do the half intensity super rest 4x4x2x2x optimal growth schedule.
This discovery is pretty big for people who play alot of lower league assuming that the non assigned training schedule are coded as unmodified rest so in the 6 training slots, you wouldn't assign any non physical training weighting? lower league - Based on experience player that's 16/16 7 Drib feels a lot better than a 15/15 11 assuming hidden attributes are the same.
harvestgreen22 said: ——So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
first season （Rest）no training+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
second season and onwards [Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
——would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals?
the only way is to put them to U20/U18/U21/U23 team , (This is ok, but you need additional operations, and it is more cumbersome to operate) Then, on the duties page, Then, on the duties page, Change U20/U18 training to be controlled by you It's the only way I know Expand
What's the reason for no training in the first season?
@harvestgreen22 Not easy to test, but in theory with how little sessions it takes to redistribute, can you just use vacation days to train certain player groups on certain days. Like Monday can be Attacker day and Wednesday can be Defender Day. Expand
@harvestgreen22 Not easy to test, but in theory with how little sessions it takes to redistribute, can you just use vacation days to train certain player groups on certain days. Like Monday can be Attacker day and Wednesday can be Defender Day. Expand
In my translator, this passage is translate to a meaningless sentence I don't quite understand what that means
Han106 said: @harvestgreen22 Have you been tracking the growth of all attributes for each schedule? If there is, is there a way to see this data? Expand
ZaZ said: If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Training players in multiple positions will increase the weight of their attributes, making them reach PA at a lower lever of performance. I don't know the details, but it probably gets the highest weight of all proficient positions, scaled by their proficiency in that position. You can easily verify that on Editor, just add 20 to another position like Winger or Striker, and CA usually goes up. That is why I only train players in the opposite side of same position, like AML - AMR and DR - DL. Expand
My main point is that injuries are low at "double intensity. I'm not taking a 200PA, highly Professional example to be deliberately effective
Here's what I think about your point: In my hypothesis, I assumed that "Pace, Acceleration, Jumping reach" was the only useful attribute, Other attributes, > No.6 in the list, have a very, very low effect.
If on my team, Player A trains very, very slowly. Let's assuming his redistribution rate is zero. So my training doesn't really have anything to do with them They can have the same training
If on my team, Player B trains fast. Then my training is actually training them. I put A and B on the same team and let them play and train normally. no need to separate them.
B Using a training method similar to "total rest", assuming an increase in Pace of 3 and CA of 3, Compared to the "fastest increase in CA" training method, assuming an increase in Pace of 3 and CA of 23,
They are exactly the same in combat effectiveness. Because only this "3 Pace" is valid. the "20" is "useless". Of course, this is an ideal assumption, and the value of "23-3=20" will also have a small effect.
If I don't want to sell players, Just want to achieve maximum combat effectiveness That "fastest increase in CA" training is pointless
If I want to sell players, that's another story.
Since my topic is only "the mechanics of training" and "How to get the most combat power", So, in this case, don't take into account what is actually done for profit in the game
(I'm not talking about how players "should play," if you know what I mean, I'm saying, "If I'm in a perfectly ideal situation, and the only goal here is to get the player to the maximum combat effectiveness."
and if the translator has a problem with the translation, I actually meant no offense . )
And by that logic, going forward, If I don't want to sell players, Just want to achieve maximum combat effectiveness
The "full rest" training method "takes up" a very small amount of CA,
This means that the player's (PA-CA)= difference value The difference value will remain at a high value for a long time
A player can (relatively) get the most ability for multiple seasons, whether he is a high PA person or a low PA person high professional or low professional .
Going back to the beginning, I'm going to take the view that (you might think I'm wrong, I'm just basing this on https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/) boosting other attributes on main team is basically meaningless adding I don't care about the money that this increased CA brings in
harvestgreen22 said: In my translator, this passage is translate to a meaningless sentence I don't quite understand what that means Expand
Can you train 2 groups on one team by sending Attacker group on one day vacation and having Defender group train. And on a different day Defender group vacation for one day and attacker group train.
1. The biggest influence on a player's sale price is the player's reputation. A player's reputation grows by winning prestigious tournaments and championships. Second is the quality of the players.
That said, if you can keep winning, you won't run out of people who can sell high prices.
2. How do I keep winning? One is the tactical need to match the current version of the game. On the other hand, the "Pace, acceleration, Jump" is higher.
3. I was beginning to think that the technical and mental attributes might be a bit useful after all,
but as I broke out with almost no technical and mental attributes ,with at high "Pace, acceleration, Jump"(about 17-18) players, only averaged 90 CA , won all the Premier League , win Champions League, won all the awards
I have changed and now I think that in developing players, I should not use training to pull technical and mental at all.
4. It means that I don't need the money that comes from increased ability, I can sell it on reputation, I don't need money on ability. The value of the only ability of technical and mental to hold CA high has also depreciated.
5. In a real game, not likely to run into a lot of 200PA highly professional people.
It could be 100CA, 150PA. More generally, 50CA, 100PA players
6. For example, 100CA ,150PA training add 25 CA in a season, 4 of 25 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump". after 2-3 season , add 50 CA , 8 of 25 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump".
This depleted PA, only 8 useful "Pace, acceleration, Jump", the other 42 points of growth may even be worth only 1-2 "Pace, acceleration, Jump"
7. 100CA ,150PA "sleep training", add 5 CA in a season, 5 of 5 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump". At the end of the first quarter, PA - CA is 45, training is still very fast, the combat effectiveness at any point in time is > Previous training
more combat effectiveness let you get more victory. And winning is all that matters.
8. Then the question becomes, How to get a bunch of young people who still have potential,
Put them through sleep training, for getting Pace ,acceleration *（about 16-18 is able to get Very good results in top level competitions）
Even they can start with a very, very low CA, such as 20-40 CA, and then 80-100 pa is enough
but the initial Pace and acceleration should be high, the initial should have a 12-14 Pace , 12-14 acceleration, so that it will not practice too slow,
Do not need genius, such relatively ordinary players are easy to find. , and they are cheap to employ
9. Put them all on the main team and train together , "sleep training" Depending on the randomness of the training, some people will increase their speed by 3 or even 4 per quarter, and some will only increase by 1 or 2.
This is a breeding ground, Wait for the person who has grow to 16-18 Pace acceleration , and you can take it out for the match.
10.
In this cycle,
I completely abandoned the "superfluous" training of mental and technical attributes,
But benefited from the game's "junk mechanics,"
To keep winning, Constantly acquiring valuable, prestigious players to sell
I don't even need any "talented young people," just normal players, even "Lack of potential third-tier players"
I also don't have to sift through people who are professional enough, as long as the breeding number is large enough , there will always be a large number of people who grow their Pace and Acceleration , even though their Mental and technical attributes are almost absent
Han106 said: Can you train 2 groups on one team by sending Attacker group on one day vacation and having Defender group train. And on a different day Defender group vacation for one day and attacker group train. Expand
I think the game is not allowed to do this ? Button not found
Footballenjoyer said: If you want to maximize dribbling, wouldn't Ball Distribution and move all your players to Attacking Units be more efficient?
i did't test [ball Distribution] as the Description has no "dribbling" , the Description said "First touch ,anticipation ..."
I'll test it on the weekend to see if it makes a difference (all in Attacking team).
Footballenjoyer said: It's match preparation. Also doesn't training position distribute weighting into Technical and Mental attribute?
No I mean, the natural position of the players as they were "born" into the game. For example, since the game favor ST and AMR/L for the fastest players in the game for regens. You just grab those players and put them in the reserve with the same training schedule but only play them lets say LB, even if they become natural at LB - Would the game still count them as ST and give them ST-level growth rather than LB growth?
Profiting from youth transfers is not really a thing in lower league saves no? This strategy basically allow you to turn Mediocre young 14/14 free transfers you picked up into serious players that can carry you into Champions league etc. Any guys that you have upgraded on usually just rot in reserve collecting pay check until you can loan them out/sell them for any amount just to get wages off the books.
——Would the game still count them as ST and give them ST-level growth rather than LB growth?
I'm curious too.
(Actually I mean the same thing as you, but the translator can't accurately translate it)
But I'm not sure there's any way to test it, if you can think of any way to control the variables of the test can you say (Because they actually differ so little, it may take a very, very large sample of tests to show a difference )
in the in-game-editor
edit player attribute detail--positions
If I change these positional values
They look the same in Game interface:"born" or "train to Familiarity with this" or "edit to 20 Familiarity "
harvestgreen22 said: i did't test [ball Distribution] as the Description has no "dribbling" , the Description said "First touch ,anticipation ..."
I'll test it on the weekend to see if it makes a difference (all in Attacking team).
Oh Im not on FM24 so disregard that, maybe they changed it. same with match preparation stuff, they used to have light training that's just for match preparation in older version of FMs.
Hi harvestgreen22
Just want to appreciate your work/research.
Can you help me clarify something:
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work
IlPadreMogens said: Hi harvestgreen22
Just want to appreciate your work/research.
Can you help me clarify something:
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work
cohesion: no , That's not going to change unless you add very, very many new players to your team .
match, friendly match can increase it ,
If I add a lot of new players in the new season. I'll add some training on the spot to increase it
tactic knowledge : no ,
sharpness: yes
If you keep training a lot, you won't lose too much sharpness, but you will increase the risk of injury.
If you want enough sharpness, in addition to training, you can rely on match or friendly match
when I play , between July and August (before the season started) ,
I will play friendly matches twice a week, as well as add some temporary sharpness training
By the start of the season, sharpness can be fine,
And as the season starts, the intensity of the match keeps sharpness high, even though resting all week
IlPadreMogens said: Hi harvestgreen22
Just want to appreciate your work/research.
Can you help me clarify something:
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work
——lso in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards
Yes you can.
You can combine freely,
For example
Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑ first servel season , Then increase the total CA rapidly
Or start by rapidly increasing total CA first, Then select Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑
Because: When your CA is low, far from the maximum PA, for example, your player is 60CA, but he has 160 PA
At this point, his acquired attributes will be much larger.
When your CA is high, close to the maximum PA, let's say your player is 140CA, but he has 160 PA
At this point, his attributes will be much smaller.
So your training strategy, when the difference between CA and the maximum PA is large, will work faster
What strategy do you adopt, depending on your needs, for example, you need someone to quickly form a "fighting force" in the team, that faster to improve the CA
There's no "right answer," just go with what you like
IlPadreMogens said: Hi harvestgreen22
Just want to appreciate your work/research.
Can you help me clarify something:
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work
One more note:
Even if the player is "fully practiced"
For example, he has 150CA, he has 150PA,
Training can also do a slow "attribute reallocation" on him.
Of course, this speed (150CA,150PA) is much slower,
Compared to, say, 50CA, 150PA, there's a big difference between them (150-50=100)
*I don't know if this makes it clear, because the translator might lose or mistranslate some meaning
Ok so I tested this on my Ajax save, I selected players who have a professionalism over -
This is how they started, as you can see I am already 8 games into the season, ignore Tenas, I didn't mean to put him in there but take note of the others. So there are 4 regens in there. I didn't train roles, just quickness in additional focus. First 2 attribute columns are Acceleration and Pace. I used training method 4.
End of season -
As you can see, there is definitely an increase, there is only Moreira who it hasn't really impacted
Also CA did go up, lowest increase was 6 points, with the highest being 15
Start of test -
End of season -
Going to test again but using my training schedule but with those players locked in in position but no roles trained and quickness still as additional focus
harvestgreen22 said: ——lso in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards
Yes you can.
You can combine freely,
For example
Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑ first servel season , Then increase the total CA rapidly
Or start by rapidly increasing total CA first, Then select Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑
Because: When your CA is low, far from the maximum PA, for example, your player is 60CA, but he has 160 PA
At this point, his acquired attributes will be much larger.
When your CA is high, close to the maximum PA, let's say your player is 140CA, but he has 160 PA
At this point, his attributes will be much smaller.
So your training strategy, when the difference between CA and the maximum PA is large, will work faster
What strategy do you adopt, depending on your needs, for example, you need someone to quickly form a "fighting force" in the team, that faster to improve the CA
There's no "right answer," just go with what you like
So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals? (i am not that experienced in training, never used it really) or would it be better to put regens/group of players you will evolve and put them on u21/u23 and have the train on your schedules?
IlPadreMogens said: So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals? (i am not that experienced in training, never used it really) or would it be better to put regens/group of players you will evolve and put them on u21/u23 and have the train on your schedules?
——So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
first season
（Rest）no training+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
second season and onwards
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
——would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals?
the only way is to put them to U20/U18/U21/U23 team , (This is ok, but you need additional operations, and it is more cumbersome to operate)
Then, on the duties page, Then, on the duties page, Change U20/U18 training to be controlled by you
It's the only way I know
I've read through the whole thing and I agree this is revolutionary. However, I have a problem with the attributes being prioritized. Pace and Acceleration are important for all positions, but I am not too sure about the importance of Jumping Reach for positions other than Centerback. This is because of this post from FM21 where some developers used machine learning in order to create attribute weights and I believe until an updated study is done is the best we have in terms of information on the best attributes.
I personally for FM24 use a derivative one of Zaz's weight of the study's weightings. These are all the weightings, up to 100, that are above 45 in my weightings. Not sure if it is the best weightings but it is what I use to evaluate players. Is there a way to fit the trainings to fit the way I want to train my players, (not prioritizing Jumping Reach)
Goalkeeper:
Mental:
Concentration: 65
Decisions: 50
Physical:
Agility: 100
Acceleration: 70
Strength: 70
Goalkeeping:
Aerial Reach: 60
Handling: 50
Center Back:
Mental:
Composure: 80
Work Rate: 55
Technical:
Heading: 55
Marking: 55
Passing: 55
Physical:
Acceleration: 90
Pace: 90
Jumping Reach: 65
Agility: 60
Stamina: 50
Strength: 50
Full Back:
Mental:
Work Rate: 90
Off The Ball: 70
Decisions: 45
Technical:
Dribbling: 50
Passing: 50
Tackling: 50
Technique: 50
Physical:
Acceleration: 100
Pace: 100
Stamina: 100
Defensive Midfielder:
Mental:
Decisions: 65
Positioning: 65
Teamwork: 65
Composure: 60
Vision: 55
Work Rate: 50
Concentration: 50
Aggression: 50
Flair: 50
Technical:
Passing: 65
Technique: 50
First Touch: 50
Physical:
Acceleration: 100
Pace: 100
Stamina: 60
Winger:
Mental:
Work Rate: 75
Technical:
Dribbling: 55
Passing: 50
Finishing: 50
Technique: 50
Physical:
Acceleration: 100
Pace: 100
Stamina: 70
Striker:
Mental:
Work Rate: 60
Aggression: 50
Decisions: 45
Technical:
Finishing: 80
Dribbling: 75
Technique: 65
First Touch: 50
Physical:
Acceleration: 100
Pace: 100
Average weights for all positions whose averages are above 20:
Acceleration: 93.3
Pace: 90.0
Stamina: 62.5
Work Rate: 55.0
Decisions: 49.2
Passing: 42.5
Technique: 41.7
Dribbling: 33.3
Agility: 33.3
Composure: 29.2
First Touch: 28.3
Finishing: 21.7
Concentration: 20.8
Aggression: 20.8
Off The Ball: 20.0
Positioning: 20.0
Strength: 20.0
Han106 said: I've read through the whole thing and I agree this is revolutionary. However, I have a problem with the attributes being prioritized. Pace and Acceleration are important for all positions, but I am not too sure about the importance of Jumping Reach for positions other than Centerback. This is because of this post from FM21 where some developers used machine learning in order to create attribute weights and I believe until an updated study is done is the best we have in terms of information on the best attributes.
I personally for FM24 use a derivative one of Zaz's weight of the study's weightings. These are all the weightings, up to 100, that are above 45 in my weightings. Not sure if it is the best weightings but it is what I use to evaluate players. Is there a way to fit the trainings to fit the way I want to train my players, (not prioritizing Jumping Reach)
Goalkeeper:
Mental:
Concentration: 65
Decisions: 50
Physical:
Agility: 100
Acceleration: 70
Strength: 70
Goalkeeping:
Aerial Reach: 60
Handling: 50
Center Back:
Mental:
Composure: 80
Work Rate: 55
Technical:
Heading: 55
Marking: 55
Passing: 55
Physical:
Acceleration: 90
Pace: 90
Jumping Reach: 65
Agility: 60
Stamina: 50
Strength: 50
Full Back:
Mental:
Work Rate: 90
Off The Ball: 70
Decisions: 45
Technical:
Dribbling: 50
Passing: 50
Tackling: 50
Technique: 50
Physical:
Acceleration: 100
Pace: 100
Stamina: 100
Defensive Midfielder:
Mental:
Decisions: 65
Positioning: 65
Teamwork: 65
Composure: 60
Vision: 55
Work Rate: 50
Concentration: 50
Aggression: 50
Flair: 50
Technical:
Passing: 65
Technique: 50
First Touch: 50
Physical:
Acceleration: 100
Pace: 100
Stamina: 60
Winger:
Mental:
Work Rate: 75
Technical:
Dribbling: 55
Passing: 50
Finishing: 50
Technique: 50
Physical:
Acceleration: 100
Pace: 100
Stamina: 70
Striker:
Mental:
Work Rate: 60
Aggression: 50
Decisions: 45
Technical:
Finishing: 80
Dribbling: 75
Technique: 65
First Touch: 50
Physical:
Acceleration: 100
Pace: 100
Average weights for all positions whose averages are above 20:
Acceleration: 93.3
Pace: 90.0
Stamina: 62.5
Work Rate: 55.0
Decisions: 49.2
Passing: 42.5
Technique: 41.7
Dribbling: 33.3
Agility: 33.3
Composure: 29.2
First Touch: 28.3
Finishing: 21.7
Concentration: 20.8
Aggression: 20.8
Off The Ball: 20.0
Positioning: 20.0
Strength: 20.0
Could you share your weightings file as well?
Added several test combinations
(requested by reply and private message)
I couldn't send a picture in a private message, so send it here
In addition , all my injuries in two seasons gaming
(this sample size is small, not necessarily the full story , but at least give a blurry general indication)
Two season I participated in all match, won 9 championships.
Due to few training programs, injuries were very rare,
and only had
1 serious injury
11 medium injury
15 small injury
harvestgreen22 said:
This is an actual game I made to test the effect, (At the bottom of the list are four players who have only been with the team for one season)
They all started with about 60-70 CA , 200PA, 16 Professionalism ,
The initial attribute is 14 Pace, 14 Acceleration, 14 Jumping reach , and the picture now is Just finished the second season
Now they can play very well in the top England Premier League. Won most the games, even though they only have 90-100CA now , as I have a higher Pace than my opponents
in the picture above I'm using this
What I originally meant in post was that you can find the mechanics of the game in the table: the game didn't get it right, and that's the responsibility of the game maker , not gamer . I'm actually disappointed with the current gaming system
( I am a new player and had just started playing 100-200 hours, more than half of which I spent testing the game mechanics )
And the four schedules I gave To get their benefits you have to suffer some drawbacks , you can do whatever you want, According to actual requirements
If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Footballenjoyer said: No I mean, the natural position of the players as they were "born" into the game. For example, since the game favor ST and AMR/L for the fastest players in the game for regens. You just grab those players and put them in the reserve with the same training schedule but only play them lets say LB, even if they become natural at LB - Would the game still count them as ST and give them ST-level growth rather than LB growth?
Training players in multiple positions will increase the weight of their attributes, making them reach PA at a lower lever of performance. I don't know the details, but it probably gets the highest weight of all proficient positions, scaled by their proficiency in that position. You can easily verify that on Editor, just add 20 to another position like Winger or Striker, and CA usually goes up. That is why I only train players in the opposite side of same position, like AML - AMR and DR - DL.
@animatron https://file.io/Q7l7SYUZIBVP
@harvestgreen22 Not easy to test, but in theory with how little sessions it takes to redistribute, can you just use vacation days to train certain player groups on certain days. Like Monday can be Attacker day and Wednesday can be Defender Day.
@harvestgreen22 Have you been tracking the growth of all attributes for each schedule? If there is, is there a way to see this data?
ZaZ said: If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Yeah I thought about it, It's probably more efficient to do the full rest or even some form of the 2x match practice double intensity practice for youth/reserve players to get them to a speed that's usable in the first team.
In the first team, you probably just do the half intensity super rest 4x4x2x2x optimal growth schedule.
This discovery is pretty big for people who play alot of lower league assuming that the non assigned training schedule are coded as unmodified rest so in the 6 training slots, you wouldn't assign any non physical training weighting? lower league - Based on experience player that's 16/16 7 Drib feels a lot better than a 15/15 11 assuming hidden attributes are the same.
harvestgreen22 said: ——So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
first season
（Rest）no training+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
second season and onwards
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
——would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals?
the only way is to put them to U20/U18/U21/U23 team , (This is ok, but you need additional operations, and it is more cumbersome to operate)
Then, on the duties page, Then, on the duties page, Change U20/U18 training to be controlled by you
It's the only way I know
What's the reason for no training in the first season?
Han106 said: but I am not too sure about the importance of Jumping Reach for positions other than Centerback.
Jumping Reach is the most broken stat for a striker
stefanopt said: What's the reason for no training in the first season?
Most improvement for Pace and Acc.
Han106 said: @animatron https://file.io/Q7l7SYUZIBVP
@harvestgreen22 Not easy to test, but in theory with how little sessions it takes to redistribute, can you just use vacation days to train certain player groups on certain days. Like Monday can be Attacker day and Wednesday can be Defender Day.
The file you sent has been deleted
Han106 said: @animatron https://file.io/Q7l7SYUZIBVP
@harvestgreen22 Not easy to test, but in theory with how little sessions it takes to redistribute, can you just use vacation days to train certain player groups on certain days. Like Monday can be Attacker day and Wednesday can be Defender Day.
In my translator, this passage is translate to a meaningless sentence
I don't quite understand what that means
Han106 said: @harvestgreen22 Have you been tracking the growth of all attributes for each schedule? If there is, is there a way to see this data?
Click player--development--Progress--Attributes
ZaZ said: If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Training players in multiple positions will increase the weight of their attributes, making them reach PA at a lower lever of performance. I don't know the details, but it probably gets the highest weight of all proficient positions, scaled by their proficiency in that position. You can easily verify that on Editor, just add 20 to another position like Winger or Striker, and CA usually goes up. That is why I only train players in the opposite side of same position, like AML - AMR and DR - DL.
My main point is that injuries are low at "double intensity.
I'm not taking a 200PA, highly Professional example to be deliberately effective
Here's what I think about your point:
In my hypothesis, I assumed that "Pace, Acceleration, Jumping reach" was the only useful attribute,
Other attributes, > No.6 in the list, have a very, very low effect.
If on my team,
Player A trains very, very slowly. Let's assuming his redistribution rate is zero.
So my training doesn't really have anything to do with them
They can have the same training
If on my team,
Player B trains fast.
Then my training is actually training them.
I put A and B on the same team and let them play and train normally. no need to separate them.
B Using a training method similar to "total rest", assuming an increase in Pace of 3 and CA of 3,
Compared to the "fastest increase in CA" training method, assuming an increase in Pace of 3 and CA of 23,
They are exactly the same in combat effectiveness. Because only this "3 Pace" is valid. the "20" is "useless".
Of course, this is an ideal assumption, and the value of "23-3=20" will also have a small effect.
If I don't want to sell players,
Just want to achieve maximum combat effectiveness
That "fastest increase in CA" training is pointless
If I want to sell players, that's another story.
Since my topic is only "the mechanics of training" and "How to get the most combat power",
So, in this case, don't take into account what is actually done for profit in the game
(I'm not talking about how players "should play,"
if you know what I mean,
I'm saying,
"If I'm in a perfectly ideal situation, and the only goal here is to get the player to the maximum combat effectiveness."
and if the translator has a problem with the translation, I actually meant no offense .
)
And by that logic, going forward,
If I don't want to sell players,
Just want to achieve maximum combat effectiveness
The "full rest" training method "takes up" a very small amount of CA,
This means that
the player's (PA-CA)= difference value
The difference value will remain at a high value for a long time
A player can (relatively) get the most ability for multiple seasons,
whether he is a high PA person or a low PA person
high professional or low professional .
Going back to the beginning, I'm going to take the view that
(you might think I'm wrong, I'm just basing this on https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/)
boosting other attributes on main team is basically meaningless
adding I don't care about the money that this increased CA brings in
https://filebin.net/djzftkqyshm3tfwn @animatron Try again.
@harvestgreen22 I don't see a spreadsheet to click on, just pictures so I can't access player--development--Progress--Attributes
harvestgreen22 said: In my translator, this passage is translate to a meaningless sentence
I don't quite understand what that means
Can you train 2 groups on one team by sending Attacker group on one day vacation and having Defender group train. And on a different day Defender group vacation for one day and attacker group train.
Let me explain how I completely changed my mind :
1.
The biggest influence on a player's sale price is the player's reputation. A player's reputation grows by winning prestigious tournaments and championships. Second is the quality of the players.
That said, if you can keep winning, you won't run out of people who can sell high prices.
2.
How do I keep winning? One is the tactical need to match the current version of the game. On the other hand, the "Pace, acceleration, Jump" is higher.
3.
I was beginning to think that the technical and mental attributes might be a bit useful after all,
but as I broke out with almost no technical and mental attributes ,with at high "Pace, acceleration, Jump"(about 17-18) players, only averaged 90 CA ,
won all the Premier League , win Champions League, won all the awards
I have changed and now I think that in developing players, I should not use training to pull technical and mental at all.
4.
It means that I don't need the money that comes from increased ability,
I can sell it on reputation,
I don't need money on ability.
The value of the only ability of technical and mental to hold CA high has also depreciated.
5.
In a real game, not likely to run into a lot of 200PA highly professional people.
It could be 100CA, 150PA.
More generally, 50CA, 100PA players
6.
For example, 100CA ,150PA
training add 25 CA in a season, 4 of 25 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump".
after 2-3 season , add 50 CA , 8 of 25 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump".
This depleted PA, only 8 useful "Pace, acceleration, Jump", the other 42 points of growth may even be worth only 1-2 "Pace, acceleration, Jump"
7.
100CA ,150PA
"sleep training", add 5 CA in a season, 5 of 5 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump".
At the end of the first quarter, PA - CA is 45,
training is still very fast,
the combat effectiveness at any point in time is > Previous training
more combat effectiveness let you get more victory.
And winning is all that matters.
8.
Then the question becomes,
How to get a bunch of young people who still have potential,
Put them through sleep training, for getting Pace ,acceleration
*（about 16-18 is able to get Very good results in top level competitions）
Even they can start with a very, very low CA, such as 20-40 CA, and then 80-100 pa is enough
but the initial Pace and acceleration should be high,
the initial should have a 12-14 Pace , 12-14 acceleration,
so that it will not practice too slow,
Do not need genius, such relatively ordinary players are easy to find. , and they are cheap to employ
9.
Put them all on the main team and train together , "sleep training"
Depending on the randomness of the training, some people will increase their speed by 3 or even 4 per quarter, and some will only increase by 1 or 2.
This is a breeding ground,
Wait for the person who has grow to 16-18 Pace acceleration , and you can take it out for the match.
10.
In this cycle,
I completely abandoned the "superfluous" training of mental and technical attributes,
But benefited from the game's "junk mechanics,"
To keep winning,
Constantly acquiring valuable, prestigious players to sell
I don't even need any "talented young people," just normal players, even "Lack of potential third-tier players"
I also don't have to sift through people who are professional enough, as long as the breeding number is large enough , there will always be a large number of people who grow their Pace and Acceleration ,
even though their Mental and technical attributes are almost absent
Han106 said: Can you train 2 groups on one team by sending Attacker group on one day vacation and having Defender group train. And on a different day Defender group vacation for one day and attacker group train.
I think the game is not allowed to do this ? Button not found
Han106 said: https://filebin.net/djzftkqyshm3tfwn @animatron Try again.
@harvestgreen22 I don't see a spreadsheet to click on, just pictures so I can't access player--development--Progress--Attributes
Seems to only able to look at pictures, Then manually record
harvestgreen22 said: I think the game is not allowed to do this ? Button not found
@harvestgreen22 With the option in the picture I could rest the Defenders and Defensive Mids and just train the Attackers
harvestgreen22 said: Seems to only able to look at pictures, Then manually record
Is it possible for you to link the spreadsheet data or is it not ready yet?