(Tentatively) New training schedule renderings based on attribute test results, welcome to propose more combination

by harvestgreen22, Nov 28, 2024

Based on the previous test, now rank the importance of attributes,
The Pace + Acceleration two are Most important, so separate them out separately from Jumping reach
Followed by Jumping reach + Dribbling , is equal to the 2th importance,
The 3th importance is Balance,
The 4th importance is Anticipation + Concentration,

The test conditions are the same as before, all attribute 10, Professionalism 20, ambition 10, work rate 10, PA 200, age 20, height 180cm, and training facility level full. I increased the number of each tests by one more time, to four seasons, to slightly reduce the error , Since growth is not very volatile, 3-4 seasons is enough to narrow down the error caused by random

Notice, this is the ideal case, this is set to control the variable method, and to highlight the difference.
So you in the actual game, according to the actual situation, may get different results from the outside.
For example , a better case , your player has 20 Professionalism and a higher 20 ambition , so his growth will be greater than the table.
For example , a better case , your player is 16 years old, then his growth may be more as he is very young, or even approach double growth .
For example , a worse case , Your player played 10 match (compared to 30 in the table) then his grow will not be as high.


Spoiler


1.
Inadvertently found in the test:
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Recovery]x7+[Attacking]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
(V7 in table)

The 7 x Recovery can very strangely allow Jumping and dribbling growth increase more.
Ignoring the fact that whether Recovery can actually reduces the risk of injury Or not.
this V7 in the table , [Recovery] compare to [rest] , One advantage is that it doesn't decrease that much Sharpness , and it can increase small Condision .
So the whole V7 : [Speed]+[practice]+[Recovery]x7+[attack] +...
might be good for the purpose of maximizing CA

2.Suggest by "Footballenjoyer" in message:[Attacking Wings] replace [play from the back]
[Quickness]+[Attacking Wings]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
[Quickness]+[play from the back]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]

C7 compared to D7
C7 better, thanks to "Footballenjoyer"

that might be a good alternative schedule when less urgent need to maximize CA


3.
"All rest train"= maximize Pace + Acceleration option,
The cost is that it will continue to degrade both technical and mental class attributes
This would be a relatively extreme option, and you could decide whether to use it or not depending on the actual situation, Or anything else on the table , or use combinatorial /interleaved


4.
I have a limited imagination on my own ,
Welcome to propose more combinations, and I will test these combinations



5.
Some additional notes
Match Practice is a "training". Match Practice is not a match . and it also participate in the CA distribution.

While "friendly Match" and "Formal Match" are both "Match," It does not participate in the distribution,
but it can Increase the total number of CA you can get ,
You can see this by comparing the values of participation in 0,10,20,30 Match in the table in last post.
"friendly Match" Is a "very inferior" Formal Match, so players can't get the same effect by only playing a lot of "friendly Match"

but "friendly Match" is the best effect way (same as actual match) to increase Sharpness ,Cohesion ,Tactic Famility, Friendship level
( good Friendship = which you will see a continuous green line between two players in the tactical screen)

If the game wins , Especially the big win , the same position, like , DM and DM, DC and DC, their friendship increases dramatically,
If the game is lost, their friendship will decrease, even negative, which will present a broken chain in tactics
In addition, if a player already has one "friend," the rate of increase in friendship with the next "friend" is significantly reduced


6.
And for table, the original plan, was to put together "Decision," "Bravery," "Teamwork."...These attribute that cost a lot for CA but has no actual effect listed separately,
indicating that the higher the growth proportion of this attribute, the worse.

But I imported the measured data in the way of image recognition - import data,
my free image recognition software, once the image is large, the recognition is messy, it has to be divided into two pieces, which is very troublesome, so compromise, just 7 beneficial attributes


7.
Note that more CA is not always better,
In addition to the fact that they should grow on key attributes,
And they may need a lot of training per week,
In addition to the difficulty of accommodating some multi-match weeks and increasing injuries,

Also, this was an ideal test, Professionalism is 20,
For example, if your player's Professionalism is 12, there is only a small difference between a 25 CA growth plan and a 23 CA growth plan in the table for that player



28/11 updated M8->B9↓↓↓



G7
P7
V7
X8

These are outstanding performance now

4

:thup: :thup: :thup:

0

My conclusions are that V7 is clearly the shining star of the findings so far. It has the highest 1th+2th category growth. It only has "3" trainings and it uses less CA than a lot of other trainings.

@harvestgreen22 I wonder if there could be a scoring system for the training schedules. The score can show that FM highly loves Acceleration and Pace but also likes Jumping and Dribbling. The weightings could be based on the attribute tests.

0

Han106 said: My conclusions are that V7 is clearly the shining star of the findings so far. It has the highest 1th+2th category growth. It only has "3" trainings and it uses less CA than a lot of other trainings.

@harvestgreen22 I wonder if there could be a scoring system for the training schedules. The score can show that FM highly loves Acceleration and Pace but also likes Jumping and Dribbling. The weightings could be based on the attribute tests.


updated some new

G7
P7
V7
X8
I currently find them both worth using (suitable for different occasions, use different ones according to the actual situation)


scoring system :
I don't have any ideas right now,
What mathematical way should it be measured (or multiplied over this value, as a weight)?
Or are there any tools/software? I'm a new player and don't know much about the tools already made

0

@harvestgreen22 I haven't thought too much on it. But I think a simple rating where Pace+Acceleration*3 and Jumping+Dribbling*1 because I do not want to target too many attributes.


In this case:

S8: 14.03 ([Quickness]+[Match Practice]x3+[Recovery]x7+[Additional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity])
V7 & N8: 13.94 (tie)
O7 & H8: 13.88 (tie)

0

If a formula with all 4, then maybe (1th × 8) + (2th × 2.6) + 3th + (4th × 2).

In this case,

V7: 43.40
A8: 43.35
P7: 43.19

0

Maybe Match Practice could be made more efficient if all players were set to training as Wingers(Support)? That seems to be the best in terms of Acc, Pace & Dribbling with as few "wasted" attributes being targeted.

It also seems like 1x Match Practice is optimal rather than having duplicates. Maybe the 2nd instance of any training is significantly less effective?

0

Hmm S7 result is a lot worse than S8.

Also for individual training, I usually like training player in position they would play. If you play + train them in the role you used - you would get max familiarity. If you train them in position but not role you used, you would get competent at least.

Best role for training I found so far:

CB - Nononsense CB (cover)
DR/L - Complete WB (support)
Winger - Winger (support)
MC - Roaming Playmaker
DM - Probably just HB or SVG volante (I like HB more since its less attributes trained and JR)
Striker - Advance Forward
AMC - SS

Not sure double dipping on Acc+Pace is better or focusing on less attributes trained is better. Im inclined to lean toward the former.

1

Footballenjoyer said: Hmm S7 result is a lot worse than S8.

Obviously you can't do the super rest strat anymore with 7x Recovery so you have to balance match performances vs slightly more growth.

Also for individual training, I usually like training player in position they would play. If you play + train them in the role you used - you would get max familiarity. If you train them in position but not role you used, you would get competent at least.

Best role for training I found so far:

CB - Nononsense CB (cover)
DR/L - Complete WB (support)
Winger - Winger (support)
MC - Roaming Playmaker
DM - Probably just HB or SVG volante (I like HB more since its less attributes trained and JR)
Striker - Advance Forward
AMC - SS

Not sure double dipping on Acc+Pace is better or focusing on less attributes trained is better. Im inclined to lean toward the former.


I still get one super rest day using V7

Monday - Quickness, Attacking, Recovery
Tues - 3 x Rest (Super rest)
Wed - Match Practice, Routines, Recovery
Thurs - 3 x Recovery
Fri - Recovery, Rest, Match Focus
Sat - Rest, Match, Rest
Sun - Rest, Match Review, Recovery

Has the 7 recoveries, 1 x Match Practice, 1 x Quickness, 1 x Attacking.  I just put a 'routines' in so that my routines go full green bar.  Every 2nd week i swap routines for team bonding.

Should this work?

PS thanks to Harvestgreen22 and ZaZ for sharing all their work!

0

Reverant said: I still get one super rest day using V7

Monday - Quickness, Attacking, Recovery
Tues - 3 x Rest (Super rest)
Wed - Match Practice, Routines, Recovery
Thurs - 3 x Recovery
Fri - Recovery, Rest, Match Focus
Sat - Rest, Match, Rest
Sun - Rest, Match Review, Recovery

Has the 7 recoveries, 1 x Match Practice, 1 x Quickness, 1 x Attacking.  I just put a 'routines' in so that my routines go full green bar.  Every 2nd week i swap routines for team bonding.

Should this work?

PS thanks to Harvestgreen22 and ZaZ for sharing all their work!


Won't you get "match focus" on Tuesday thus cancelling the super rest? If you have 2 games per week I mean.

0

kvasir said: Won't you get "match focus" on Tuesday thus cancelling the super rest? If you have 2 games per week I mean.

Yes, unfortunately as soon as you start getting 2 matches per week the super rest goes :(

Does anyone know if doubling or tripling up the recoveries still counts, or do you have to have one each day?

0

Reverant said: I still get one super rest day using V7

Monday - Quickness, Attacking, Recovery
Tues - 3 x Rest (Super rest)
Wed - Match Practice, Routines, Recovery
Thurs - 3 x Recovery
Fri - Recovery, Rest, Match Focus
Sat - Rest, Match, Rest
Sun - Rest, Match Review, Recovery

Has the 7 recoveries, 1 x Match Practice, 1 x Quickness, 1 x Attacking.  I just put a 'routines' in so that my routines go full green bar.  Every 2nd week i swap routines for team bonding.

Should this work?

PS thanks to Harvestgreen22 and ZaZ for sharing all their work!


in my mind 7x recovery = replace all rest session with recovery. brain fart. I wouldn't do team bonding since it actually does distribute stats to teamwork.

I like S8 and V7. However I'm not convinced with Attacking yet since it's not as focused on Dribbling as other trainings.

0

Yeah, I mean swapping duplicate MP for another session. If you compare S7 to V7:

Quick + MPx2 + Recx7 vs Quick + MP + Attacking + Recx7

You get better Acc + Pace, better dribbling, better CA growth



It must work in this way:

Baseline CA growth (or decline) depending on age
Matches give potential CA growth
You then need to assign Training sessions to take up that potential, each session unlocks it's own amount (you see some grant more or less CA growth compared to others in the test)
The exact training sessions you select decide where attributes go (again some are stronger than others)

I imagine that the first instance of each training session a week is much better than the 2nd, so if you want max CA growth for fewest sessions per week you'd choose all different ones

I have no idea why recovery is giving better returns than rest though, that's puzzling.

0

Since we know that pace & acceleration are so much better than other attributes, would it make sense just to use G7 and sacrifice everything else?

0

Singularity said: Yeah, I mean swapping duplicate MP for another session. If you compare S7 to V7:

Quick + MPx2 + Recx7 vs Quick + MP + Attacking + Recx7

You get better Acc + Pace, better dribbling, better CA growth



It must work in this way:

Baseline CA growth (or decline) depending on age
Matches give potential CA growth
You then need to assign Training sessions to take up that potential, each session unlocks it's own amount (you see some grant more or less CA growth compared to others in the test)
The exact training sessions you select decide where attributes go (again some are stronger than others)

I imagine that the first instance of each training session a week is much better than the 2nd, so if you want max CA growth for fewest sessions per week you'd choose all different ones

I have no idea why recovery is giving better returns than rest though, that's puzzling.


Yes but that theory falls apart when you account for E8 and S8, since more sessions of MP actually lead to more growth in the case of S8 while an extra MP session (E8 vs V7) lead to lower growth

0

Hmm, yeah, that's odd:

V7 = MP + Att = 3.93/23.6
S7 = MPx2 = 3.84/17.3


E8 = MPx2 + Att = 3.84/23.6
S8 = MPx3 = 4/24.4

So replacing MP with Att either gave +0.9/+6.3 or -0.16/-0.8


It doesn't even make sense with the CA cap since V7 vs E8 the cap is the same despite the extra MP, but adding an extra MP with S7 vs S8 gives +7.3 extra.

0

Footballenjoyer said: Hmm S7 result is a lot worse than S8.

Also for individual training, I usually like training player in position they would play. If you play + train them in the role you used - you would get max familiarity. If you train them in position but not role you used, you would get competent at least.

Best role for training I found so far:

CB - Nononsense CB (cover)
DR/L - Complete WB (support)
Winger - Winger (support)
MC - Roaming Playmaker
DM - Probably just HB or SVG volante (I like HB more since its less attributes trained and JR)
Striker - Advance Forward
AMC - SS

Not sure double dipping on Acc+Pace is better or focusing on less attributes trained is better. Im inclined to lean toward the former.





I did the "G9-H9-I9-J9" test
Changed the Duty of 4 groups of players





And unfortunately, it had a negative effect,

Each different Duty, it does add growth in the "green highlighted" part , But this comes at the cost of "blue highlighting" growth , This is something I didn't expect.

I checked a few players. They show up : Green Highlight ↑, Blue Highlight ↓ , Compare to "No duty" (G7-X8-S8-V7).

So maybe duty shouldn't be chosen , we should leave it Default

2

Singularity said: Hmm, yeah, that's odd:

V7 = MP + Att = 3.93/23.6
S7 = MPx2 = 3.84/17.3


E8 = MPx2 + Att = 3.84/23.6
S8 = MPx3 = 4/24.4

So replacing MP with Att either gave +0.9/+6.3 or -0.16/-0.8


It doesn't even make sense with the CA cap since V7 vs E8 the cap is the same despite the extra MP, but adding an extra MP with S7 vs S8 gives +7.3 extra.


Yes, I can't figure out why

0

Steelwood said: Since we know that pace & acceleration are so much better than other attributes, would it make sense just to use G7 and sacrifice everything else?

This needs to be selected according to the actual situation,
For example, in a situation and goal that you want all growth to be Pace and Acceleration

This training has the added benefit of comparing Q5 (full rest, 0 matches ) and R5 (full rest, 30 matches ), which offer exactly the same Pace and Acceleration ."Full rest" is an exercise that is insensitive to the "Number of matches played.

1

Reverant said: I still get one super rest day using V7

Monday - Quickness, Attacking, Recovery
Tues - 3 x Rest (Super rest)
Wed - Match Practice, Routines, Recovery
Thurs - 3 x Recovery
Fri - Recovery, Rest, Match Focus
Sat - Rest, Match, Rest
Sun - Rest, Match Review, Recovery

Has the 7 recoveries, 1 x Match Practice, 1 x Quickness, 1 x Attacking.  I just put a 'routines' in so that my routines go full green bar.  Every 2nd week i swap routines for team bonding.

Should this work?

PS thanks to Harvestgreen22 and ZaZ for sharing all their work!


"Routines" = Set piece Routines?
When I'm free, i will test it

1

Maybe we could take a step back and not conclude everything based on like 0,1 differences. These tests are great but there is still plenty of error in them due to sample size.

Compare for example H7 and S7. Huge difference for no apparent reason and even in the opposite direction as most others would suggest.

0

Yeah, sample size is probably not enough to draw anything but very vague conclusions to be fair.


@harvestgreen22

Have you tried what happens with 100% rest and no Quickness focus training? Then with 30 games and without? That way you could see what the baseline growth for a 20 year old is

0

@harvestgreen22

Great work on this update.

I am currently running the following:

Youth team (16 years old to 18 Years old), play no first team games just youth games- G7
Under 21’s (18 years old - 21 Years old), play some first team games but mostly reserves - C7
First team (21 years +) - I mix V7 & S8

Do you think this is a good way to develop players from youth team?

Do you recommend not training specific positions now?

Also when a player reaches 26 in your first team would you recommend stoping additional focus “Quickness”?

Thank you .

0

harvestgreen22 said: "Routines" = Set piece Routines?
When I'm free, i will test it


Yes exactly. Routines = set piece routines :thup:

0

KaiFm said: @harvestgreen22

Great work on this update.

I am currently running the following:

Youth team (16 years old to 18 Years old), play no first team games just youth games- G7
Under 21’s (18 years old - 21 Years old), play some first team games but mostly reserves - C7
First team (21 years +) - I mix V7 & S8

Do you think this is a good way to develop players from youth team?

Also when a player reaches 26 in your first team would you recommend stoping additional focus “Quickness”?

Thank you .


I am running

Youth team (16 years old to 18 Years old), play no first team games just youth games- C7
Under 21’s (18 years old - 21 Years old), play mostly reserves - V7
First team (21 years +) - I do v7 (in addition 1x routines once per week)

Seems to be working as intended in that hardly any injuries and decent development for my team so far this year

1

Does anyone know if [Double intensity] means No pitch or gym work for the first four options, and Double intensity only on full heart?

0

Yarema said: Maybe we could take a step back and not conclude everything based on like 0,1 differences. These tests are great but there is still plenty of error in them due to sample size.

Compare for example H7 and S7. Huge difference for no apparent reason and even in the opposite direction as most others would suggest.


Poses an interesting question about RNG which we already know is present in the match engine itself BUT we don't know if RNG affects training in the same way (unless we do, feel free to correct me)

0

matejer said: Does anyone know if [Double intensity] means No pitch or gym work for the first four options, and Double intensity only on full heart?

No pitch for first 3, double for last 2

1

Singularity said: Yeah, sample size is probably not enough to draw anything but very vague conclusions to be fair.


@harvestgreen22

Have you tried what happens with 100% rest and no Quickness focus training? Then with 30 games and without? That way you could see what the baseline growth for a 20 year old is



It's nothing special

0

Steelwood said: Poses an interesting question about RNG which we already know is present in the match engine itself BUT we don't know if RNG affects training in the same way (unless we do, feel free to correct me)

Its random quantity is relatively small, even if the sample is not enough, the random error will only be around 1-3,
My understanding is this:
From the previous post,[Recovery]It's a training,
It also affects the allocation of weights,
When the weights reach a certain critical point, there will be some abrupt changes in the assigned values due to rounding of the algorithm, or for other reasons

Compare:
O8
N8
M8
H8
G8
Y7
V7

You will find that there are similar strange things happening in
Dribbling, Balance, Anticipation
There is an overall trend

0
Create an account or log in to leave a comment