ZaZ said: I didn't test yet, but I am pretty sure super rest still works in this version. Super rest happens when you give three rest sessions in the same day, and send the player to rest home, accumulating the effects of both rests. That should be enough to keep your players in good condition during the season, and I personally always do it after matches (in the first day without travel, because travel breaks it by not allowing three rest sessions).
Rest is the only session that recovers condition and fatigue. That is why Recovery is a pretty pointless session. All it does is to not have a training session (as in "not spend energy", and keep (and not recover) the match sharpness that would be reduced if you used Rest instead. As a matter of fact, Rest sessions are only triggered if you have three sessions in the same day, so if you do only two rest sessions and something else, it is equivalent to doing two Recoveries (and that something else). Expand
Another post talked about how important match sharpness is to results so I think it is probably better to use recovery where possible, though my thoughts on that are more skewed towards winning matches rather than training results
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: From what I've heard, the FM26 training file is identical to the one in FM24, and HarvestGreen22 found that attribute importance remains largely the same (long shots, finishing were boosted somewhat)
Separate to that, I wouldn't use recovery. It actually seems to affect training gains, and you can maintain match sharpness well enough with this instead (this also has the most gains in FM24 according to Piperita a few posts above): Quickness + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quickness focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest Expand
In FM24 HarvestGreen22 recommended all rest for youth players to boost their Physicals but for first team he recommended the one i mentioned as best for first team players, it had recovery x7, it's what i have been using but i don't think it's been amazing so far, do you recommend without the recovery sessions?
Steelwood said: Another post talked about how important match sharpness is to results so I think it is probably better to use recovery where possible, though my thoughts on that are more skewed towards winning matches rather than training results Expand
There is a difference between match sharpness being important and recovery being useful. You can keep match sharpness high even by using all your subs every match, and rotating the subs. Another trick is to book a youth friendly one day after a normal match, then allow players that didn't play to be used in the youth squad, to increase their sharpness.
ZaZ said: As a matter of fact, Rest sessions are only triggered if you have three sessions in the same day, so if you do only two rest sessions and something else, it is equivalent to doing two Recoveries (and that something else). Expand
Is this so? I didn't know this
I am skeptical. If this is true, then why do recovery sessions seem to impact training results as compared to rest? Is it only because of the 3 period rest days? How can recovery also make such a large condition/jadedness difference over time if its just those infrequent 3 period rest days?
Steelwood said: Another post talked about how important match sharpness is to results so I think it is probably better to use recovery where possible, though my thoughts on that are more skewed towards winning matches rather than training results Expand
I agree with ZaZ's comment that rest works for match sharpness so long as you manage your squad correctly through rotation and playing them occasionally in youth friendlies if necessary.
I actually think recovery has more downsides than just slightly worse training. In my own save I was using the exploit trick to use all recovery sessions instead of rest, and found it was a bit too harsh on condition and caused excess jadedness. Jadedness isn't that bad as EBFM found it's self-limiting and it's difficult to reach and easy to solve, but it does have some impact on performance. So I've been advocating for a mix of rest and recovery, but after doing some testing, you can actually get away with no recovery sessions at all. And for the slight training bonus, you would want to.
Semi-related - At the moment I'm re-analyzing attributes. For some reason a few months ago I decided quickness + attack was the best, without match practice. When I returned to it for my post here recently, I thought I made a mistake of simply forgetting match practice. But now I vaguely recall it could be that although it's a "worse" training regime, it favors 'decisions' less say, making it actually better overall. So for me, the best training regime is still in flux, I will re-assess after completing my attribute re-analysis.
I am skeptical. If this is true, then why do recovery sessions seem to impact training results as compared to rest? Is it only because of the 3 period rest days? How can recovery also make such a large condition/jadedness difference over time if its just those infrequent 3 period rest days?
I agree with ZaZ's comment that rest works for match sharpness so long as you manage your squad correctly through rotation and playing them occasionally in youth friendlies if necessary.
I actually think recovery has more downsides than just slightly worse training. In my own save I was using the exploit trick to use all recovery sessions instead of rest, and found it was a bit too harsh on condition and caused excess jadedness. Jadedness isn't that bad as EBFM found it's self-limiting and it's difficult to reach and easy to solve, but it does have some impact on performance. So I've been advocating for a mix of rest and recovery, but after doing some testing, you can actually get away with no recovery sessions at all. And for the slight training bonus, you would want to.
Semi-related - At the moment I'm re-analyzing attributes. For some reason a few months ago I decided quickness + attack was the best, without match practice. When I returned to it for my post here recently, I thought I made a mistake of simply forgetting match practice. But now I vaguely recall it could be that although it's a "worse" training regime, it favors 'decisions' less say, making it actually better overall. So for me, the best training regime is still in flux, I will re-assess after completing my attribute re-analysis. Expand
So you would recommend not using the x7 Recovery? Have you done anything with developing your youth as FM26 doesn't allow us to actually manage the youth training, i have put all my 4+ star potential youths in my first team and made them available for the u18/u21 they are developing well as it's the only way to customize their training.
Robbo84FM said: So you would recommend not using the x7 Recovery? Have you done anything with developing your youth as FM26 doesn't allow us to actually manage the youth training, i have put all my 4+ star potential youths in my first team and made them available for the u18/u21 they are developing well as it's the only way to customize their training. Expand
I'm doing FM24, not FM26
Right now, I wouldn't recommend x7 recovery. But it doesn't matter much, we're probably talking like ~5% or less difference. I recommend Quick + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quick focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest. 'No pitch or gym work' for first 3 condition icons, only 4-5 pre-season friendlies.
Right now, I wouldn't recommend x7 recovery. But it doesn't matter much, we're probably talking like ~5% or less difference. I recommend Quick + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quick focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest. 'No pitch or gym work' for first 3 condition icons, only 4-5 pre-season friendlies. Expand
Oh ok you on FM24 fair enough, i did the same schedule but with the x7 recovery and sticking with it on FM26 for now, like you say it's a minimal difference with recovery or without probably best to mix it up a bit and get the best of both.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: From what I've heard, the FM26 training file is identical to the one in FM24, and HarvestGreen22 found that attribute importance remains largely the same (long shots, finishing were boosted somewhat)
Separate to that, I wouldn't use recovery. It actually seems to affect training gains, and you can maintain match sharpness well enough with this instead (this also has the most gains in FM24 according to Piperita a few posts above): Quickness + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quickness focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest Expand
Should you move all of your players into the “attacking” group or leave some in the defending one?
Right now, I wouldn't recommend x7 recovery. But it doesn't matter much, we're probably talking like ~5% or less difference. I recommend Quick + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quick focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest. 'No pitch or gym work' for first 3 condition icons, only 4-5 pre-season friendlies. Expand
BLS122 said: Should you move all of your players into the “attacking” group or leave some in the defending one? Expand
I've been following all these posts about meta attributes and HarvestGreen training finds, and I'm still not clear on this issue. Do training Units influence progress at all? I've been putting my CB's and Deffending DM's on the defensive Unit, everyone else is attacking, and not sure if it's doing anything.
Also, still on FM2024, using [Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
BLS122 said: Should you move all of your players into the “attacking” group or leave some in the defending one? Expand
I didn't look into the training units at all myself, but according to EBFM training units do have an effect
In the schedule I favor, it doesn't seem any of the units are split between attacking and defending, not even the 'attacking' units, so I would assume it makes no difference what group the players are in.
BrushlessPlaymaker said: I've been following all these posts about meta attributes and HarvestGreen training finds, and I'm still not clear on this issue. Do training Units influence progress at all? I've been putting my CB's and Deffending DM's on the defensive Unit, everyone else is attacking, and not sure if it's doing anything.
Also, still on FM2024, using [Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity] Expand
I have also been following their work since the beginning and i don't recall ever seeing them mention about changing units but i can't be sure, i have never changed mine
Out of curiosity, anyone tested part-time training? Only having 6 slots (2 of them likely being a game) changes things. Not clear to me if the "unavailable" slots count as rest. Anyone tested the progress cap with that? Wondering how to boost a semi-pro team :P
Panneton0 said: Out of curiosity, anyone tested part-time training? Only having 6 slots (2 of them likely being a game) changes things. Not clear to me if the "unavailable" slots count as rest. Anyone tested the progress cap with that? Wondering how to boost a semi-pro team :P Expand
Doesn’t make sense to worry about it. Sign the best free agents and loans you can get at the start of each year. No young player is ever going to progress enough from training to get into your team, or to stay with the team as you get promoted.
MeanOnSunday said: Doesn’t make sense to worry about it. Sign the best free agents and loans you can get at the start of each year. No young player is ever going to progress enough from training to get into your team, or to stay with the team as you get promoted. Expand In FM24 loaning is destroyed by SI and nearly unusable. For both sides (!). But actually free agents would be enough.
btw @Panneton0 if you read this thread You wouldnt ask this stupid (in this place) question.
MeanOnSunday said: Doesn’t make sense to worry about it. Sign the best free agents and loans you can get at the start of each year. No young player is ever going to progress enough from training to get into your team, or to stay with the team as you get promoted. Expand
Usually would agree, but in a "Youth academy challenge", that is not an option. I am aware how the challenge makes it very very difficult, but let's say for "academic" interest, if we have any data on what (if any) part-time training can min/max CA gains toward meta attributes, and how it compares to the best full-time ones.
This is purely out of curiosity, to further some understanding of training mechanisms.
tam1236 said: In FM24 loaning is destroyed by SI and nearly unusable. For both sides (!). But actually free agents would be enough.
btw @Panneton0 if you read this thread You wouldnt ask this stupid (in this place) question. Expand
I never had any trouble loaning; in non-league you usually have to wait for the transfer deadline to pass for the big clubs so you will be the only choice for a loan.
But they just dont want to loan. Except for players who are weak for a league they are to loan.
And that's because player's progress on loan in lower leagues (not the lowest ones but just leagues in which these youngsters would be good) is drastically capped by SI in FM24 - loaning is just useless for a player's owner.
I wonder how you can wait without any transfer moves to the very last moment. If there is no player for a position you need you will stay without an important player. It's better to find a free agent: there are loads of them, some are quite good and nearly all of them ready to be tested.
Edit: Of cource except if you take it as a kind of sport - something that is not very effective but just nice as a challenge.
tam1236 said: But they just dont want to loan. Except for players who are weak for a league they are to loan.
And that's because player's progress on loan in lower leagues (not the lowest ones but just leagues in which these youngsters would be good) is drastically capped by SI in FM24 - loaning is just useless for a player's owner.
I wonder how you can wait without any transfer moves to the very last moment. If there is no player for a position you need you will stay without an important player. It's better to find a free agent: there are loads of them, some are quite good and nearly all of them ready to be tested.
Edit: Of cource except if you take it as a kind of sport - something that is not very effective but just nice as a challenge. Expand The key is to keep players on month to month contracts when they expire in the summer, and as you find replacements only then release them. Same goes for signing free agents which are significantly cheaper closer to deadline day.
Panneton0 said: Usually would agree, but in a "Youth academy challenge", that is not an option. I am aware how the challenge makes it very very difficult, but let's say for "academic" interest, if we have any data on what (if any) part-time training can min/max CA gains toward meta attributes, and how it compares to the best full-time ones.
This is purely out of curiosity, to further some understanding of training mechanisms. Expand You can use the 3-4 sessions that are in most professional schedules along with individual training - I've had good success with that approach. Haven't tried full rest yet but I'd rather not use it because I fear the players might actually regress too much before getting the results.
ZaZ said: I didn't test yet, but I am pretty sure super rest still works in this version. Super rest happens when you give three rest sessions in the same day, and send the player to rest home, accumulating the effects of both rests. That should be enough to keep your players in good condition during the season, and I personally always do it after matches (in the first day without travel, because travel breaks it by not allowing three rest sessions).
, and keep (and not recover) the match sharpness that would be reduced if you used Rest instead. As a matter of fact, Rest sessions are only triggered if you have three sessions in the same day, so if you do only two rest sessions and something else, it is equivalent to doing two Recoveries (and that something else).
Rest is the only session that recovers condition and fatigue. That is why Recovery is a pretty pointless session. All it does is to not have a training session (as in "not spend energy"
Another post talked about how important match sharpness is to results so I think it is probably better to use recovery where possible, though my thoughts on that are more skewed towards winning matches rather than training results
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: From what I've heard, the FM26 training file is identical to the one in FM24, and HarvestGreen22 found that attribute importance remains largely the same (long shots, finishing were boosted somewhat)
Separate to that, I wouldn't use recovery. It actually seems to affect training gains, and you can maintain match sharpness well enough with this instead (this also has the most gains in FM24 according to Piperita a few posts above): Quickness + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quickness focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest
In FM24 HarvestGreen22 recommended all rest for youth players to boost their Physicals but for first team he recommended the one i mentioned as best for first team players, it had recovery x7, it's what i have been using but i don't think it's been amazing so far, do you recommend without the recovery sessions?
Steelwood said: Another post talked about how important match sharpness is to results so I think it is probably better to use recovery where possible, though my thoughts on that are more skewed towards winning matches rather than training results
There is a difference between match sharpness being important and recovery being useful. You can keep match sharpness high even by using all your subs every match, and rotating the subs. Another trick is to book a youth friendly one day after a normal match, then allow players that didn't play to be used in the youth squad, to increase their sharpness.
ZaZ said: As a matter of fact, Rest sessions are only triggered if you have three sessions in the same day, so if you do only two rest sessions and something else, it is equivalent to doing two Recoveries (and that something else).
Is this so? I didn't know this
I am skeptical. If this is true, then why do recovery sessions seem to impact training results as compared to rest? Is it only because of the 3 period rest days? How can recovery also make such a large condition/jadedness difference over time if its just those infrequent 3 period rest days?
Steelwood said: Another post talked about how important match sharpness is to results so I think it is probably better to use recovery where possible, though my thoughts on that are more skewed towards winning matches rather than training results
I agree with ZaZ's comment that rest works for match sharpness so long as you manage your squad correctly through rotation and playing them occasionally in youth friendlies if necessary.
I actually think recovery has more downsides than just slightly worse training. In my own save I was using the exploit trick to use all recovery sessions instead of rest, and found it was a bit too harsh on condition and caused excess jadedness. Jadedness isn't that bad as EBFM found it's self-limiting and it's difficult to reach and easy to solve, but it does have some impact on performance. So I've been advocating for a mix of rest and recovery, but after doing some testing, you can actually get away with no recovery sessions at all. And for the slight training bonus, you would want to.
Semi-related - At the moment I'm re-analyzing attributes. For some reason a few months ago I decided quickness + attack was the best, without match practice. When I returned to it for my post here recently, I thought I made a mistake of simply forgetting match practice. But now I vaguely recall it could be that although it's a "worse" training regime, it favors 'decisions' less say, making it actually better overall. So for me, the best training regime is still in flux, I will re-assess after completing my attribute re-analysis.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Is this so? I didn't know this
I am skeptical. If this is true, then why do recovery sessions seem to impact training results as compared to rest? Is it only because of the 3 period rest days? How can recovery also make such a large condition/jadedness difference over time if its just those infrequent 3 period rest days?
I agree with ZaZ's comment that rest works for match sharpness so long as you manage your squad correctly through rotation and playing them occasionally in youth friendlies if necessary.
I actually think recovery has more downsides than just slightly worse training. In my own save I was using the exploit trick to use all recovery sessions instead of rest, and found it was a bit too harsh on condition and caused excess jadedness. Jadedness isn't that bad as EBFM found it's self-limiting and it's difficult to reach and easy to solve, but it does have some impact on performance. So I've been advocating for a mix of rest and recovery, but after doing some testing, you can actually get away with no recovery sessions at all. And for the slight training bonus, you would want to.
Semi-related - At the moment I'm re-analyzing attributes. For some reason a few months ago I decided quickness + attack was the best, without match practice. When I returned to it for my post here recently, I thought I made a mistake of simply forgetting match practice. But now I vaguely recall it could be that although it's a "worse" training regime, it favors 'decisions' less say, making it actually better overall. So for me, the best training regime is still in flux, I will re-assess after completing my attribute re-analysis.
So you would recommend not using the x7 Recovery? Have you done anything with developing your youth as FM26 doesn't allow us to actually manage the youth training, i have put all my 4+ star potential youths in my first team and made them available for the u18/u21 they are developing well as it's the only way to customize their training.
Robbo84FM said: So you would recommend not using the x7 Recovery? Have you done anything with developing your youth as FM26 doesn't allow us to actually manage the youth training, i have put all my 4+ star potential youths in my first team and made them available for the u18/u21 they are developing well as it's the only way to customize their training.
I'm doing FM24, not FM26
Right now, I wouldn't recommend x7 recovery. But it doesn't matter much, we're probably talking like ~5% or less difference. I recommend Quick + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quick focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest. 'No pitch or gym work' for first 3 condition icons, only 4-5 pre-season friendlies.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I'm doing FM24, not FM26
Right now, I wouldn't recommend x7 recovery. But it doesn't matter much, we're probably talking like ~5% or less difference. I recommend Quick + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quick focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest. 'No pitch or gym work' for first 3 condition icons, only 4-5 pre-season friendlies.
Oh ok you on FM24 fair enough, i did the same schedule but with the x7 recovery and sticking with it on FM26 for now, like you say it's a minimal difference with recovery or without probably best to mix it up a bit and get the best of both.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: From what I've heard, the FM26 training file is identical to the one in FM24, and HarvestGreen22 found that attribute importance remains largely the same (long shots, finishing were boosted somewhat)
Separate to that, I wouldn't use recovery. It actually seems to affect training gains, and you can maintain match sharpness well enough with this instead (this also has the most gains in FM24 according to Piperita a few posts above): Quickness + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quickness focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest
Should you move all of your players into the “attacking” group or leave some in the defending one?
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I'm doing FM24, not FM26
Right now, I wouldn't recommend x7 recovery. But it doesn't matter much, we're probably talking like ~5% or less difference. I recommend Quick + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quick focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest. 'No pitch or gym work' for first 3 condition icons, only 4-5 pre-season friendlies.
BLS122 said: Should you move all of your players into the “attacking” group or leave some in the defending one?
I've been following all these posts about meta attributes and HarvestGreen training finds, and I'm still not clear on this issue. Do training Units influence progress at all? I've been putting my CB's and Deffending DM's on the defensive Unit, everyone else is attacking, and not sure if it's doing anything.
Also, still on FM2024, using
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
BLS122 said: Should you move all of your players into the “attacking” group or leave some in the defending one?
I didn't look into the training units at all myself, but according to EBFM training units do have an effect
In the schedule I favor, it doesn't seem any of the units are split between attacking and defending, not even the 'attacking' units, so I would assume it makes no difference what group the players are in.
BrushlessPlaymaker said: I've been following all these posts about meta attributes and HarvestGreen training finds, and I'm still not clear on this issue. Do training Units influence progress at all? I've been putting my CB's and Deffending DM's on the defensive Unit, everyone else is attacking, and not sure if it's doing anything.
Also, still on FM2024, using
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
I have also been following their work since the beginning and i don't recall ever seeing them mention about changing units but i can't be sure, i have never changed mine
Out of curiosity, anyone tested part-time training? Only having 6 slots (2 of them likely being a game) changes things. Not clear to me if the "unavailable" slots count as rest. Anyone tested the progress cap with that? Wondering how to boost a semi-pro team :P
Panneton0 said: Out of curiosity, anyone tested part-time training? Only having 6 slots (2 of them likely being a game) changes things. Not clear to me if the "unavailable" slots count as rest. Anyone tested the progress cap with that? Wondering how to boost a semi-pro team :P
Doesn’t make sense to worry about it. Sign the best free agents and loans you can get at the start of each year. No young player is ever going to progress enough from training to get into your team, or to stay with the team as you get promoted.
MeanOnSunday said: Doesn’t make sense to worry about it. Sign the best free agents and loans you can get at the start of each year. No young player is ever going to progress enough from training to get into your team, or to stay with the team as you get promoted.
In FM24 loaning is destroyed by SI and nearly unusable. For both sides (!). But actually free agents would be enough.
btw @Panneton0 if you read this thread You wouldnt ask this stupid (in this place) question.
MeanOnSunday said: Doesn’t make sense to worry about it. Sign the best free agents and loans you can get at the start of each year. No young player is ever going to progress enough from training to get into your team, or to stay with the team as you get promoted.
Usually would agree, but in a "Youth academy challenge", that is not an option. I am aware how the challenge makes it very very difficult, but let's say for "academic" interest, if we have any data on what (if any) part-time training can min/max CA gains toward meta attributes, and how it compares to the best full-time ones.
This is purely out of curiosity, to further some understanding of training mechanisms.
tam1236 said: In FM24 loaning is destroyed by SI and nearly unusable. For both sides (!). But actually free agents would be enough.
btw @Panneton0 if you read this thread You wouldnt ask this stupid (in this place) question.
I never had any trouble loaning; in non-league you usually have to wait for the transfer deadline to pass for the big clubs so you will be the only choice for a loan.
But they just dont want to loan. Except for players who are weak for a league they are to loan.
And that's because player's progress on loan in lower leagues (not the lowest ones but just leagues in which these youngsters would be good) is drastically capped by SI in FM24 - loaning is just useless for a player's owner.
I wonder how you can wait without any transfer moves to the very last moment. If there is no player for a position you need you will stay without an important player. It's better to find a free agent: there are loads of them, some are quite good and nearly all of them ready to be tested.
Edit: Of cource except if you take it as a kind of sport - something that is not very effective but just nice as a challenge.
tam1236 said: But they just dont want to loan. Except for players who are weak for a league they are to loan.
And that's because player's progress on loan in lower leagues (not the lowest ones but just leagues in which these youngsters would be good) is drastically capped by SI in FM24 - loaning is just useless for a player's owner.
I wonder how you can wait without any transfer moves to the very last moment. If there is no player for a position you need you will stay without an important player. It's better to find a free agent: there are loads of them, some are quite good and nearly all of them ready to be tested.
Edit: Of cource except if you take it as a kind of sport - something that is not very effective but just nice as a challenge.
The key is to keep players on month to month contracts when they expire in the summer, and as you find replacements only then release them. Same goes for signing free agents which are significantly cheaper closer to deadline day.
Panneton0 said: Usually would agree, but in a "Youth academy challenge", that is not an option. I am aware how the challenge makes it very very difficult, but let's say for "academic" interest, if we have any data on what (if any) part-time training can min/max CA gains toward meta attributes, and how it compares to the best full-time ones.
This is purely out of curiosity, to further some understanding of training mechanisms.
You can use the 3-4 sessions that are in most professional schedules along with individual training - I've had good success with that approach. Haven't tried full rest yet but I'd rather not use it because I fear the players might actually regress too much before getting the results.