137 GOALS! Newcastle Won Everything! Devastating Catenaccio! 3-1-6-0, Beautiful xG

by Stan Seymour, 23 days, 3 hours ago

There are little tweaks I'm pondering on. Not sure, but maybe there will be minor and strange changes soon.

Stay tuned :)

1

Here 's my results during first season with valencia.
i won La liga and knocked out by barcelona in cup.

I tried to build a good team before the season starts.. but no funds expect 2 million! Sold some to re-build the weakest areas and used many talents from youth club.
This tactic is so powered in attack.. defence need Fast solid players and it will works like a rocket!
There's a small hint.. I just begin with Balanced training due to first half of season thought it helps but not like the special training i used lately!ZaZ training schedules!!!
Can't wait to see the team in CL with new solid faces again.
Thanks pal.

2

@Stan Seymour Is there a difference between the profile of Stopper and Ball Playing Defenders or can the same players play in both roles?

0

I made a few tweaks to solidify the defence and increase attack potency

0

Stan Seymour said: There are little tweaks I'm pondering on. Not sure, but maybe there will be minor and strange changes soon.

Stay tuned :)


Interesting,in my opinion there is no need for any changes 😉
Keep up brilliant job 💪

1

babemocni1988 said: Interesting,in my opinion there is no need for any changes 😉
Keep up brilliant job 💪

Agree. I am just trying little bit different traps. A new version may come if a significant change occurs. But as I said before, I'm happy to keep it that way. But also i am open to small ideas and touches. But one thing is certain, there will be absolutely no change in philosophy.

1

Metal said: I made a few tweaks to solidify the defence and increase attack potency
Any change that doesn't reduce the attack power is good. I have some thoughts on the defensive line as well, but I'm not sure if it works better against big teams and if it's stuck against average teams. Also, i will focus more on democratic marking, actually.

@Metal

1

Keshk said: Here 's my results during first season with valencia.
i won La liga and knocked out by barcelona in cup.

I tried to build a good team before the season starts.. but no funds expect 2 million! Sold some to re-build the weakest areas and used many talents from youth club.
This tactic is so powered in attack.. defence need Fast solid players and it will works like a rocket!
There's a small hint.. I just begin with Balanced training due to first half of season thought it helps but not like the special training i used lately!ZaZ training schedules!!!
Can't wait to see the team in CL with new solid faces again.
Thanks pal.

Amazing progress. Keep us informed.

1

@Metal this modifications were used in the United screenshots you put in the thread? (Where you were unbeaten)

0

alex said: @Metal this modifications were used in the United screenshots you put in the thread? (Where you were unbeaten)

No they were the original tactic where I went unbeaten.

In fact ignore/scrap those modifications they're not working out as well as I thought they were i.e inconsistent and finding losing more games with the mods.

I'm still trying to find a way to tweak it to maximise this tactic's potential because I still think the defense can be improved

1

Metal said: No they were the original tactic where I went unbeaten.

In fact ignore/scrap those modifications they're not working out as well as I thought they were i.e inconsistent and finding losing more games with the mods.

I'm still trying to find a way to tweak it to maximise this tactic's potential because I still think the defense can be improved


As a tip, Mezzala don't work in this version. Try some other role if you want to use players in that position.

1

Thanks for the hard work on the tactic. Any players you would recommend for this tactic? Any must have players?

1

Tactic is mustard. Had to register to talk about it.

Ran a season with Forest playing all games since AM pick is a nightmare with the wide positions. I didn't even have really quick CBs but they did the job, corner routine is good my RCB got 12 from it. Haven't seen this sort of aggressive dominating football esp with another 3 atb this year. Revived my interest in the game right before FM22 so hats off

2

Casey12a said: Thanks for the hard work on the tactic. Any players you would recommend for this tactic? Any must have players?
Thank you for the reply, appreciate it. You can look screenshots on this topic for your question. Especially babemocni's photos. 'Cause i have lots of regens.

1

avonseller said: Tactic is mustard. Had to register to talk about it.

Ran a season with Forest playing all games since AM pick is a nightmare with the wide positions. I didn't even have really quick CBs but they did the job, corner routine is good my RCB got 12 from it. Haven't seen this sort of aggressive dominating football esp with another 3 atb this year. Revived my interest in the game right before FM22 so hats off

Thanks for the in-depth feedback avonseller, really appreciate it. Also i liked your nickname :D Thank you again for your wonderful words.

1

Stan Seymour said: Thanks for the in-depth feedback avonseller, really appreciate it. Also i liked your nickname :D Thank you again for your wonderful words.

You're welcome mate

Also to add to the guidelines in general; my CMs weren't really quick (most around 11-12 for acceleration and pace) so a good substitute attribute is having good passing (around 15 or so) or good set piece ability. As you can see Garner and Carvalho both ended up topping the assist charts because they could just pin point a through ball or one over the top because of the tactic's go-for-the-kill nature if they didn't already assist through set pieces before. And my AM which was Zinckernagel also ended up with 13 assists, lots of interplay between the SS (Lyle Taylor) and the AM means they'll end up chipping in too. Overall probably the most fun tactic this year so once again cheers!

1

Middleweight165 said: @Stan Seymour Is there a difference between the profile of Stopper and Ball Playing Defenders or can the same players play in both roles?

Stan Seymour said: I have been working with Sidnei Lobo in every career since 2010. The man is very adept at management and training. I delegate general training and individual training directly to him. But I do intervene directly in training programs to get some players accustomed to their positions. In a nutshell, you can handle this with him or any other good assistant manager in the game. Don't worry too much about training.

gk: pass, vision, one on ones, aerial reach, rushing out, positioning
DW: (Right DW should use his right foot, and left DW should use his left foot.) Off the ball, agility, pace, vision, acceleration, crossing, passing, dribbling, first touch, decision.
Anchor: The brain of the team. He must be a player with a good relationship with the ball. All attributes must be at a certain level. He must be cool. He should not be too tall (between 178-183 is ideal) and should not be physically weak. Even if he doesn't get a high rating, this guy does the real work.
CM: Passing, first touch, vision, off the ball, stamina, decision, technical, flair, balance, pace, teamwork, work rate.
SS, AM: Off the ball, pace, acceleration, dribbling, vision, finishing, composure, passing, first touch, teamwork, work rate.

Let me also consider the defenders so that everything is clearer:
The center defender should be more belligerent, brave and intuitive. He must be aware of which balls he should interfere with and which balls he should not interfere with. More precisely, the best and tallest defender should be in the center of the defense. He must be a fast, smart, tough defender who likes to touch the opponent. He must be tall. Minimum 185 cm, ideally +190 cm. The right and left defenders should be those who have a high relationship with the ball. I also used tall wing backs in these positions. But I got the best performance from the players whose original position was the defender and also tall defensive midfielders who can also play on defense were very good in that position. Their height should be at least 180 cm, +185 cm is ideal. These players must have good passing, vision, first touch, positioning, head kick, jumping, marking, tackling, dribbling, team work, pace, acceleration. They don't all need to be perfect, but they shouldn't be too low.

****For all players, the most important of these are pace, acceleration, passing, first touch and vision.****


@Middleweight165 You can read last part of this for your question.

0

I finished tweaking this formation to it's peak potential which I think has improved both the potency of the defence and attack. Tested with pool and salah and mane scored 115 goals between them. Gonna post seperate thread so it can get reviewed but will give you all the credit Stan Seymour

0

I think you could look for inspiration in the Tank tactic. It also uses three defenders and has similar attack power, but the defense is more solid and the results are more consistent.

0

ZaZ said: I think you could look for inspiration in the Tank tactic. It also uses three defenders and has similar attack power, but the defense is more solid and the results are more consistent.
Test results can be deceiving. I don't think Tank can dominate as much as this tactic. It is almost impossible to increase the attack power to this level without making a gambit.

0

ZaZ said: I think you could look for inspiration in the Tank tactic. It also uses three defenders and has similar attack power, but the defense is more solid and the results are more consistent.


I wanted to keep the exact same shape with the three man midfield and same attack philosophy/mentality because I think it's genius and easy to build the team around. I also didn't want to do a disservice to the original creator and change the formation around just to concede less and then calling it an improvement.

There are many easy ways of tightening the defence but then the attack is compromised and I didn't want to take that facet of play away in this tactic where the attack is an endless barrage of shots to goal where you always have a high xg

I used inspiration from my own experience with the M.E, knowing the exploits and previous tactics that I've made and used where I enjoyed certain patterns of play and carefully synthesized them all together so on the pitch it plays exactly how I want the game to play out which is complete total domination and supremacy over the opponent whether big or small and making the most of out the forwards to ensure they get high numbers and become candidates for individual awards

1

First season with Valencia!
Difference between this and last one .. The Def!
Unbelievable results.. i shocked dude.

*i deleted the other save cause i moved to Arsenal and they were in Takeover so can't Sign or loan any player before window closes.

1

Since the good results of the users prove that this tactic should not be touched too much, so i opened second topic for my other tactic that I was pondering.

Here:
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1581-143-goals-easily-ucl-winner-newcastle-thrashing-giants-queen-sacrifice-by-stan-seymour/

0

Stan Seymour said: Test results can be deceiving. I don't think Tank can dominate as much as this tactic. It is almost impossible to increase the attack power to this level without making a gambit.

Tests are not exactly deceiving. Each methodology has a different bias, and the goal of testing is usually to minimize possible biases. Most tactics over 6.0 are good and will overachieve, as well as some tactics under that score with good management. Tests are important because they are usually less biased than personal feeling, which is specially important when you are overoptimizing something (like optimizing more than what you need to win).

Metal said: I wanted to keep the exact same shape with the three man midfield and same attack philosophy/mentality because I think it's genius and easy to build the team around. I also didn't want to do a disservice to the original creator and change the formation around just to concede less and then calling it an improvement.

There are many easy ways of tightening the defence but then the attack is compromised and I didn't want to take that facet of play away in this tactic where the attack is an endless barrage of shots to goal where you always have a high xg

I used inspiration from my own experience with the M.E, knowing the exploits and previous tactics that I've made and used where I enjoyed certain patterns of play and carefully synthesized them all together so on the pitch it plays exactly how I want the game to play out which is complete total domination and supremacy over the opponent whether big or small and making the most of out the forwards to ensure they get high numbers and become candidates for individual awards


It's fine, I was just showing the tactic with best results in FM-Arena with three defenders and goals scored over 3 per match. I thought it could have some interesting insights for what you are looking for.

0

ZaZ said: Tests are not exactly deceiving. Each methodology has a different bias, and the goal of testing is usually to minimize possible biases. Most tactics over 6.0 are good and will overachieve, as well as some tactics under that score with good management. Tests are important because they are usually less biased than personal feeling, which is specially important when you are overoptimizing something (like optimizing more than what you need to win).



It's fine, I was just showing the tactic with best results in FM-Arena with three defenders and goals scored over 3 per match. I thought it could have some interesting insights for what you are looking for.

I didnt say anything different, actually. There is a difference between saying test results are deceiving and saying test results "can be" deceiving. I say test results can deceive. I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise. It is an experienced and well-known fact that most of high-scoring tactics do not work in dozens of careers. That doesn't make those tactics bad. But it makes tactics open to discussion.

0

Forgive me for the long-windedness but I can assure you this is a post worth reading - if you truly want to know how this formation works.

It is always my firm belief that whether a formation is good or not is to be tested with a sh.t team. In my case, it is Bolton (don't ask me why I picked Bolton - perhaps I am still nostalgic about THAT Bolton team with JJ Okocha and Jaaskelainen). Whoever has used this team in the past will know how shi.t a team it is - what a fall from grace. Team starts from League 2; on the verge of bankruptcy; zero transfer funds season after season; minimal wage budget; no youth intake; and I started with only one spot for 1 GK coach, 1 general coach, and 1 fitness coach.

I fought my way up. League 2 and League 1, not that big a problem. Hit the bottleneck when I reached Championship. The gap was huge. I was rock bottom of the table after 5 games. Then I spotted this thread.

And - as some say - "the rest is history".

What a reversal of fortune. I ended up winning the Championship. W32 D7 L7. Scored 133 goals. My top scorer was Muhammadu Faal who scored 38 goals in 42 games. I played him as SS (re-trained from AF). His skills are sh.t. Single digit composure, first touch and off the ball - the usual key skills you expect from a scorer. But he has 16 acceleration and 16 pace. And he is quite tall and strong. And he cannot stop scoring by bursting in the middle of the field between the two CB in the opponent team, his fellow AM dragging the opponent formation out of shape.

I am now in the Premier League. Finally got some decent transfer budget upon promotion (32m to be exact). Always revamped the whole team and brought in 9 decent (not great) players - for a sh.t team, any player will easily be an upgrade. My best player now is Michael Olise, bought from Reading for 15.25m; and Isak Hansen-Aaroen, wonderkid SS/AM loaned from Man Utd (17 acceleration, 16 pace, 16 first touch). My team is now 5th. Scored 70 goals in 24 games. There is a realistic change of Euro qualification.

Okay - enough story-telling.

Having used this formation for two seasons, I will summarize this formation in one line: "I will always outscore you". It does not matter if my team concedes a goal first (and you will usually concede first). The more your opponent attacks you, the more powerful is my team's counter-push. Newton's third law. So I score more when my team is leading and when my opponent as a result becomes more attacking. Many of the goals are scored from 80 mins onwards.

This is, without doubt, the most ultra-attacking formation I have ever used. (For reference, I have been playing FM for a long time and have seen enough to make this comment.)

Let's start with the backline. It is interesting to see how the left and right BPD behave. They behave like a Wide CB - a new role introduced in FM22. You can see them as a "reverse" IWB. IWB is a FB with the tendency of pushing inwards. These two BPD are CB with the tendency of pushing outwards, and they interact well with the DW who is always positioned close to them because the BPD are so wide in the field.

The middle CB stopper is interesting. I have never used a stopper before: I tend to be defensive (or cautious), I always prefer my middle CB to be on a cover duty as the "last man standing". CB stopper is basically a less aggressive Libero. He is less aggressive because he has an Anchor Man in front of him, so there is no need for him to move that deep into midfield. But he pushes more forward then a conventional CB. And that is useful because he will neatly fill in the gap if the Anchor Man is displaced.

But there lies the biggest weakness in this formation: the wide gap between the three CBs. This is easy to see. If the left and right BPD move sideways, and the CB stopper at times move forward to the DM position, there will be way too much space in your own penalty box area. You need very good BPD and CB to recover. They have to be pacey (in this regard, acceleration much more important than pace because you need them to "explode" to cover lost ground). They have to have good anticipation and positioning. These qualities are plainly lacking in my defenders. That is why I have conceded 50 goals so far, and have lost 1-9 to Man City, and 1-6 to Chelsea. But because of my team's attack potency, I also beat Arsenal by 6-1, and Liverpool 4-2. High scoring games are the norm.

The Anchor Man role makes sense but as usual his ratings are low. But in this version of FM, usually whoever occupies the DM role will have low ratings (unless you set him as set piece takers). This is the problem with the ME, not the problem with the role as such. If you observe the gameplay you will see the Anchor Man doing the job neatly. You need him to hold the fort in front of the back three. In this regard, the creator of this formation mentioned that the Anchor Man needs not be taller - in fact preferably he should not be too tall. I agree. Rather than linking it with height, I would rather say you need someone who is fairly agile in the role (and tall players are usually more rigid) because he starts all the counter-attacking movements and you need him to be really good at using the ball.

The creator once said that good heading ability in players will help in this formation. Again based on what I saw from the gameplay, I agree entirely. This is because most (if not all) of the time, ball recovery is by way of headers when your opponent team passes a high ball into your own half. Also, if your SS is tall and has good heading and strength, this will also help a lot because he can act as the "tower" to slip the ball to his fellow AM by header, and many times the AM will then go all the way to score.

This formation is the equivalent of the basketball term "run and gun". If your team does not have high quality players, you will see misplaced balls frequently, but it does not matter too much because your team will always press and recover them, and then push forward again because of the very attacking mentality. The creator is right that this formation needs pacey players. More specifically, the SS, AM and DW must be quick. Less pace-demanding on the two CM on attack. The LCM tends to score more (and naturally so because the RCM has the AM in front of him - and this creates a nice overload on the right side). So the LCM should have "move into channels" or "always go forward" traits. But even without these traits, it will be fine as long as the LCM has good off the ball and shooting attributes.

I notice there have since been two reiterations of this formation. I will test them separately next season. This season I want to use this formation only to see how far it can bring my sh.t Bolton team. So far it looks very promising, and for that I thank the creator for making FM fun to watch again.

Finally, there is in my view no such thing as "the best" formation. I pay little attention to the test results and scores in this forum. They may be useful starting points but certainly not the "be all and end all". In my mind, "the best" tactic is one that suits your team, your players and your personal style of play. There is no right or wrong in FM - it is all a matter of personal preference. If you want to play possession football, this formation does not suit you. If you want to play control, this formation does not suit you. But if you want to see the ball pumping around the field like ping pong, and you enjoy the thrill of high scoring games, you should definitely try out this formation.

3

Oh, I should add that this formation WILL result in a lot of yellow and red cards. Possibly because of the relatively inferior quality of my players (I suppose better quality players will be more intelligent in tackling). And this formation is very demanding so you need enough players to rotate and you need to adjust your training and rest periods carefully.

1

JTC said: Forgive me for the long-windedness but I can assure you this is a post worth reading - if you truly want to know how this formation works.

It is always my firm belief that whether a formation is good or not is to be tested with a sh.t team. In my case, it is Bolton (don't ask me why I picked Bolton - perhaps I am still nostalgic about THAT Bolton team with JJ Okocha and Jaaskelainen). Whoever has used this team in the past will know how shi.t a team it is - what a fall from grace. Team starts from League 2; on the verge of bankruptcy; zero transfer funds season after season; minimal wage budget; no youth intake; and I started with only one spot for 1 GK coach, 1 general coach, and 1 fitness coach.

I fought my way up. League 2 and League 1, not that big a problem. Hit the bottleneck when I reached Championship. The gap was huge. I was rock bottom of the table after 5 games. Then I spotted this thread.

And - as some say - "the rest is history".

What a reversal of fortune. I ended up winning the Championship. W32 D7 L7. Scored 133 goals. My top scorer was Muhammadu Faal who scored 38 goals in 42 games. I played him as SS (re-trained from AF). His skills are sh.t. Single digit composure, first touch and off the ball - the usual key skills you expect from a scorer. But he has 16 acceleration and 16 pace. And he is quite tall and strong. And he cannot stop scoring by bursting in the middle of the field between the two CB in the opponent team, his fellow AM dragging the opponent formation out of shape.

I am now in the Premier League. Finally got some decent transfer budget upon promotion (32m to be exact). Always revamped the whole team and brought in 9 decent (not great) players - for a sh.t team, any player will easily be an upgrade. My best player now is Michael Olise, bought from Reading for 15.25m; and Isak Hansen-Aaroen, wonderkid SS/AM loaned from Man Utd (17 acceleration, 16 pace, 16 first touch). My team is now 5th. Scored 70 goals in 24 games. There is a realistic change of Euro qualification.

Okay - enough story-telling.

Having used this formation for two seasons, I will summarize this formation in one line: "I will always outscore you". It does not matter if my team concedes a goal first (and you will usually concede first). The more your opponent attacks you, the more powerful is my team's counter-push. Newton's third law. So I score more when my team is leading and when my opponent as a result becomes more attacking. Many of the goals are scored from 80 mins onwards.

This is, without doubt, the most ultra-attacking formation I have ever used. (For reference, I have been playing FM for a long time and have seen enough to make this comment.)

Let's start with the backline. It is interesting to see how the left and right BPD behave. They behave like a Wide CB - a new role introduced in FM22. You can see them as a "reverse" IWB. IWB is a FB with the tendency of pushing inwards. These two BPD are CB with the tendency of pushing outwards, and they interact well with the DW who is always positioned close to them because the BPD are so wide in the field.

The middle CB stopper is interesting. I have never used a stopper before: I tend to be defensive (or cautious), I always prefer my middle CB to be on a cover duty as the "last man standing". CB stopper is basically a less aggressive Libero. He is less aggressive because he has an Anchor Man in front of him, so there is no need for him to move that deep into midfield. But he pushes more forward then a conventional CB. And that is useful because he will neatly fill in the gap if the Anchor Man is displaced.

But there lies the biggest weakness in this formation: the wide gap between the three CBs. This is easy to see. If the left and right BPD move sideways, and the CB stopper at times move forward to the DM position, there will be way too much space in your own penalty box area. You need very good BPD and CB to recover. They have to be pacey (in this regard, acceleration much more important than pace because you need them to "explode" to cover lost ground). They have to have good anticipation and positioning. These qualities are plainly lacking in my defenders. That is why I have conceded 50 goals so far, and have lost 1-9 to Man City, and 1-6 to Chelsea. But because of my team's attack potency, I also beat Arsenal by 6-1, and Liverpool 4-2. High scoring games are the norm.

The Anchor Man role makes sense but as usual his ratings are low. But in this version of FM, usually whoever occupies the DM role will have low ratings (unless you set him as set piece takers). This is the problem with the ME, not the problem with the role as such. If you observe the gameplay you will see the Anchor Man doing the job neatly. You need him to hold the fort in front of the back three. In this regard, the creator of this formation mentioned that the Anchor Man needs not be taller - in fact preferably he should not be too tall. I agree. Rather than linking it with height, I would rather say you need someone who is fairly agile in the role (and tall players are usually more rigid) because he starts all the counter-attacking movements and you need him to be really good at using the ball.

The creator once said that good heading ability in players will help in this formation. Again based on what I saw from the gameplay, I agree entirely. This is because most (if not all) of the time, ball recovery is by way of headers when your opponent team passes a high ball into your own half. Also, if your SS is tall and has good heading and strength, this will also help a lot because he can act as the "tower" to slip the ball to his fellow AM by header, and many times the AM will then go all the way to score.

This formation is the equivalent of the basketball term "run and gun". If your team does not have high quality players, you will see misplaced balls frequently, but it does not matter too much because your team will always press and recover them, and then push forward again because of the very attacking mentality. The creator is right that this formation needs pacey players. More specifically, the SS, AM and DW must be quick. Less pace-demanding on the two CM on attack. The LCM tends to score more (and naturally so because the RCM has the AM in front of him - and this creates a nice overload on the right side). So the LCM should have "move into channels" or "always go forward" traits. But even without these traits, it will be fine as long as the LCM has good off the ball and shooting attributes.

I notice there have since been two reiterations of this formation. I will test them separately next season. This season I want to use this formation only to see how far it can bring my sh.t Bolton team. So far it looks very promising, and for that I thank the creator for making FM fun to watch again.

Finally, there is in my view no such thing as "the best" formation. I pay little attention to the test results and scores in this forum. They may be useful starting points but certainly not the "be all and end all". In my mind, "the best" tactic is one that suits your team, your players and your personal style of play. There is no right or wrong in FM - it is all a matter of personal preference. If you want to play possession football, this formation does not suit you. If you want to play control, this formation does not suit you. But if you want to see the ball pumping around the field like ping pong, and you enjoy the thrill of high scoring games, you should definitely try out this formation.

Great explanation. Reading this write-up was as enjoyable as watching the tactic :) And I think there is no better definition than your words: "I will always outscore you". The reason the website exists is because we can read such beauties. Thank you for your beautiful story and deep analysis. Keep us informed about Sh*t Bolton. :) By the way, it was one of my favorite teams in fifa 2005.

0

That moment when he scored first goal for me :)
Haland Mbappe upfront this year :)

1

@babemocni1988  how's the deadly couple performing? :)

1
Create an account or log in to leave a comment