I would be happy to hear your opinion on the following find: apparently the CA alone can win matches - regardless of the attributes. in FM24 I changed the CA and PA of all players in a very weak team to 200 (but left the actual attributes unchanged). since it was seconds before the match started, I am sure that everything stayed unchanged until kickoff. And strangely, I won almost every match against the same much stronger opponent I lost to every time before (I loaded the same file 20 times each). If that is true it means that things like passing/decisions etc. can win matches indirectly as they change a team's CA.
Bill W said: In full disclosure, I'm one season in so far, with a J3 side and I JUST updated the genie settings, but I was mostly already going with the old fm24 preferred stats anyway.
Trying to recruit mostly to pace and jumping apparently works well. Team did great, crushed the league pretty really. The genie seems to spit out the types of players I prefer, if that's mostly what you're asking... But yeah. So far so good! Expand
you call that good? I am very frustrated at SI. I tell you what was good: those times when I looked at a player and imagined in my head how his passing skills in combination with his flair would unlock the opponents defense. and how his off the ball would work well with move into channels etc. etc.
and sorry if that has been asked before, but it seems you isolated attributes that should work in a bundle, for example passing needs passing+technique+vision+decisions to be effective. same like marking needs strength, pace, anticipation etc. to succeed. do you think that this could make a difference? Expand
I have studied this issue together with other players and I hope to explain it in the simplest possible way. It's probably like this:
1. Normally speaking, Positive plus positive, it's impossible to get negative.
2. Separately increase the values of A, B, C, and D, and the winning rate will increase
3. Now, add A, B, C and D "simultaneously" In some combinations, the winning rate did not increase significantly In some other combinations, the winning rate even decreased (that is, it became negative).
4. Under normal logic, some attributes should "interact and promote each other", generating an effect where 1+1 is greater than 2 , 1+1+1 >3 Now, under specific testing conditions, the test obtained a completely illogical result: 1+1+1<0 ( like " passing+technique+vision+decisions "
Due to time constraints, I can't spend an unlimited amount of time going through all conditions and thoroughly understanding them. And there must be a reason for its emergence
5. This is not an isolated case; rather, many attributes are like this Here it refers to the combination of "technical type and technical type attributes" and "technical type and spiritual type attributes". The "physical type attributes" currently all seem to be completely positive.
6. My personal theory is what was mentioned in the previous post. Technical type and spiritual type attributes , They simultaneously represent "success rate" and "tendency/behavioral positivity". The latter may have negative effects, and sometimes the negative impact is so great that the increase in success rate is not enough to make up for it.
7. There are also some other new results (not on the same topic as this one or this post) that were developed by other players through unpacking. What they mean is "Don't tell foreigners" (because they are afraid of bearing legal responsibility as unpacking), so it only spreads internally Because I was too busy, I didn't study what they wrote. Their conclusion was roughly: the attribute , penalty taking ，Free Kick，is ineffective ， The success rate (expected goals) is calculated and random based on some fixed parameters
what do you think about the find that CA can win games? as mentioned i increased my player’s CA and PA (but not the attributes) directly before a match (so that everything stayed unchanged) and suddenly i started winning against the same team I always lost against (reloaded a savegame many times) it would mean that mental and technical attributes can make a difference because the game assigns CA to them.
maybe this is sports interactives trick to make attributes matter - even if they cannot show things like passing in the match engine (pace / acceleration are very easy to show in the match engine) they just generally change the odds of winning 😀
that’s why i made another small experiment, i gave a player a 20 in passing/technique/vision/flair and compared this to him having a 1 in these attributes. My team won more games because of higher CA but the “passing match stats” like “passes completed” or “key passes” did not change at all
Bill W said: In full disclosure, I'm one season in so far, with a J3 side and I JUST updated the genie settings, but I was mostly already going with the old fm24 preferred stats anyway.
Trying to recruit mostly to pace and jumping apparently works well. Team did great, crushed the league pretty really. The genie seems to spit out the types of players I prefer, if that's mostly what you're asking... But yeah. So far so good! Expand
How do you use these ratings?? buy players based on the % of rating in the position???
what do you think about the find that CA can win games? as mentioned i increased my player’s CA and PA (but not the attributes) directly before a match (so that everything stayed unchanged) and suddenly i started winning against the same team I always lost against (reloaded a savegame many times) it would mean that mental and technical attributes can make a difference because the game assigns CA to them.
maybe this is sports interactives trick to make attributes matter - even if they cannot show things like passing in the match engine (pace / acceleration are very easy to show in the match engine) they just generally change the odds of winning 😀
that’s why i made another small experiment, i gave a player a 20 in passing/technique/vision/flair and compared this to him having a 1 in these attributes. My team won more games because of higher CA but the “passing match stats” like “passes completed” or “key passes” did not change at all Expand
I did a few tests
---------------
(All outfield) 20 pace/acc/jump/drib + 8 other attributes:
I didn't isolate things 100% or take many samples, but I think it's good enough to draw a few key conclusions.
Those technical/mental attributes don't do much, even in combination. And the extra cost is ~40 CA, which is really the nail in the coffin. ~40% extra cost for ~18% extra performance.
It's more difficult to draw a conclusion about whether attribute combos compound performance, but I would say it doesn't seem so. HarvestGreen22's data showing effect of 12 > 18 of each attribute has ~2-3% increased win rate for each of these attributes I boosted. 5x2.5% = 12.5%. I boosted from 8 to 20 and got ~14%-21% extra depending on how you look at it, which is about the same as you'd expect from each attribute alone.
Also it shows that its not just judging based on CA, and my ideal 140 CA templates which are around about the same CA did significantly better
what do you think about the find that CA can win games? as mentioned i increased my player’s CA and PA (but not the attributes) directly before a match (so that everything stayed unchanged) and suddenly i started winning against the same team I always lost against (reloaded a savegame many times) it would mean that mental and technical attributes can make a difference because the game assigns CA to them.
maybe this is sports interactives trick to make attributes matter - even if they cannot show things like passing in the match engine (pace / acceleration are very easy to show in the match engine) they just generally change the odds of winning 😀
that’s why i made another small experiment, i gave a player a 20 in passing/technique/vision/flair and compared this to him having a 1 in these attributes. My team won more games because of higher CA but the “passing match stats” like “passes completed” or “key passes” did not change at all Expand
I successfully refunded the FM26, so I can't continue to study it
1. Your guess might be right. I haven't conducted this test (under the condition that the attribute lock remains unchanged —— only changing the CA to observe if there are any changes in the result).
2. Under appropriate circumstances, the effects of technical and mental attributes (multivariable combinations) are positive. But in some other cases, they inhibit each other.
For Example, a certain attribute is best when it is of medium , and second best when it is of high , worst in low . increase it from 1 to 20 , It did enhance its performance, but its best performance might be around 10
Because these combinations are too complex, players cannot control them. So I think it's enough to roughly know which ones are strong and which ones are weak.
3. We all know that strong attributes do not necessarily consume more CA. Weak attributes do not necessarily consume less CA. For instance, "Decisions" occupies a lot of CA in all positions, but the effect is very poor
4. Therefore, CA cannot fully represent the strength of the players.
However, it cannot be ruled out that , For exactly the same attributes, if there are different ca, due to the calculations of the game engine, there may be different performances.
5. I have posted about my gaming career twice on our Chinese forum/video website for some time before.
One of them was to use a second-tier league team from China to replace the Maltese league through mod, thus being able to participate in the UEFA Champions League.
Then I look for randomly generated virtual young Chinese players. Because the Chinese "youth training score" in the game is only 60 (very low). The average PA of randomly generated virtual players is basically 60 to 70.
I used "full rest training", and several years later, the players were all at about 20 Pace and 20 Acceleration. However, their other attributes, such as the technical category, are very poor.
6. The result was great: the game started in 2023. Win the UEFA Champions League titles in 2026,2027,2028,2029 and 2030. The champion of the 2030 World Cup.
Some of our players once thought it was an impossible challenge.
The final average CA is only around 70 to 75. The strong opponents usually have a CA of around 170. This CA with 100 less still won all the way.
I use one of the good tactics and set-piece tactics from FM-arena. This makes a certain contribution ( Outside the contribution of attributes )
but it can also prove to some extent that this theory can be applied to actual games (Even with such a poor PA and such a low-priced player, one can still pass one of the most difficult challenges in the game).
NandaldiaN said: How do you use these ratings?? buy players based on the % of rating in the position??? Expand
Sorry, just noticed I hadn't responded to this...
I look for Professionalism at least >=10 and Progress Rate >=5, but, I really prefer Prof >=14 and PR >=7, speed 8 or greater and age <=18 (if just looking for wonderkids to grow/sell), <=23 (if looking for squad players), <=30 if looking for 1 or 2 year gap fillers. Filter salaries/sale value to meet my squad's finances. Then I pop what's left into a shortlist, load it into my save to see who I ACTUALLY have a shot of signing, and make offers accordingly. I really try to start with speed >=14, and ties get broken by dribbling >10, work rate > 12, etc, finally considering my tactic, unless I deem them "loan and sell" only types...
I would be happy to hear your opinion on the following find: apparently the CA alone can win matches - regardless of the attributes.
in FM24 I changed the CA and PA of all players in a very weak team to 200 (but left the actual attributes unchanged). since it was seconds before the match started, I am sure that everything stayed unchanged until kickoff. And strangely, I won almost every match against the same much stronger opponent I lost to every time before (I loaded the same file 20 times each).
If that is true it means that things like passing/decisions etc. can win matches indirectly as they change a team's CA.
Bill W said: In full disclosure, I'm one season in so far, with a J3 side and I JUST updated the genie settings, but I was mostly already going with the old fm24 preferred stats anyway.
Trying to recruit mostly to pace and jumping apparently works well.
Team did great, crushed the league pretty really.
The genie seems to spit out the types of players I prefer, if that's mostly what you're asking...
But yeah. So far so good!
you call that good? I am very frustrated at SI.
I tell you what was good: those times when I looked at a player and imagined in my head how his passing skills in combination with his flair would unlock the opponents defense. and how his off the ball would work well with move into channels etc. etc.
those were the days when we felt like managers.
CryosFeron said: thanks for your hard work!!
and sorry if that has been asked before, but it seems you isolated attributes that should work in a bundle, for example passing needs passing+technique+vision+decisions to be effective. same like marking needs strength, pace, anticipation etc. to succeed.
do you think that this could make a difference?
I have studied this issue together with other players and I hope to explain it in the simplest possible way.
It's probably like this:
1.
Normally speaking,
Positive plus positive, it's impossible to get negative.
2.
Separately increase the values of A, B, C, and D, and the winning rate will increase
3.
Now, add A, B, C and D "simultaneously"
In some combinations, the winning rate did not increase significantly
In some other combinations, the winning rate even decreased (that is, it became negative).
4.
Under normal logic, some attributes should "interact and promote each other", generating an effect where 1+1 is greater than 2 , 1+1+1 >3
Now, under specific testing conditions, the test obtained a completely illogical result: 1+1+1<0
( like " passing+technique+vision+decisions "
Due to time constraints, I can't spend an unlimited amount of time going through all conditions and thoroughly understanding them.
And there must be a reason for its emergence
5.
This is not an isolated case; rather, many attributes are like this
Here it refers to the combination of "technical type and technical type attributes" and "technical type and spiritual type attributes".
The "physical type attributes" currently all seem to be completely positive.
6. My personal theory is what was mentioned in the previous post.
Technical type and spiritual type attributes , They simultaneously represent "success rate" and "tendency/behavioral positivity".
The latter may have negative effects, and sometimes the negative impact is so great that the increase in success rate is not enough to make up for it.
7. There are also some other new results (not on the same topic as this one or this post) that were developed by other players through unpacking.
What they mean is "Don't tell foreigners" (because they are afraid of bearing legal responsibility as unpacking), so it only spreads internally
Because I was too busy, I didn't study what they wrote. Their conclusion was roughly: the attribute , penalty taking ，Free Kick，is ineffective ， The success rate (expected goals) is calculated and random based on some fixed parameters
ok thanks!
what do you think about the find that CA can win games? as mentioned i increased my player’s CA and PA (but not the attributes) directly before a match (so that everything stayed unchanged) and suddenly i started winning against the same team I always lost against (reloaded a savegame many times)
it would mean that mental and technical attributes can make a difference because the game assigns CA to them.
maybe this is sports interactives trick to make attributes matter - even if they cannot show things like passing in the match engine (pace / acceleration are very easy to show in the match engine) they just generally change the odds of winning 😀
that’s why i made another small experiment, i gave a player a 20 in passing/technique/vision/flair and compared this to him having a 1 in these attributes. My team won more games because of higher CA but the “passing match stats” like “passes completed” or “key passes” did not change at all
Bill W said: In full disclosure, I'm one season in so far, with a J3 side and I JUST updated the genie settings, but I was mostly already going with the old fm24 preferred stats anyway.
Trying to recruit mostly to pace and jumping apparently works well.
Team did great, crushed the league pretty really.
The genie seems to spit out the types of players I prefer, if that's mostly what you're asking...
But yeah. So far so good!
How do you use these ratings?? buy players based on the % of rating in the position???
CryosFeron said: ok thanks!
what do you think about the find that CA can win games? as mentioned i increased my player’s CA and PA (but not the attributes) directly before a match (so that everything stayed unchanged) and suddenly i started winning against the same team I always lost against (reloaded a savegame many times)
it would mean that mental and technical attributes can make a difference because the game assigns CA to them.
maybe this is sports interactives trick to make attributes matter - even if they cannot show things like passing in the match engine (pace / acceleration are very easy to show in the match engine) they just generally change the odds of winning 😀
that’s why i made another small experiment, i gave a player a 20 in passing/technique/vision/flair and compared this to him having a 1 in these attributes. My team won more games because of higher CA but the “passing match stats” like “passes completed” or “key passes” did not change at all
I did a few tests
---------------
(All outfield) 20 pace/acc/jump/drib + 8 other attributes:
+96, 93
+71, 92 (2nd sample)
(All outfield) 20 passing + technique + decisions + composure + decisions + first touch:
+96, 103
+107, 107 (2nd sample)
(1 DM only) 20 passing + technique + decisions + composure + decisions + first touch:
+127, 102
+55, 85 (2nd sample)
+94, 98 (3rd sample)
(All outfield) 20 passing:
+100, 96
+96, 95 (2nd sample)
---------------
I didn't isolate things 100% or take many samples, but I think it's good enough to draw a few key conclusions.
Those technical/mental attributes don't do much, even in combination. And the extra cost is ~40 CA, which is really the nail in the coffin. ~40% extra cost for ~18% extra performance.
It's more difficult to draw a conclusion about whether attribute combos compound performance, but I would say it doesn't seem so. HarvestGreen22's data showing effect of 12 > 18 of each attribute has ~2-3% increased win rate for each of these attributes I boosted. 5x2.5% = 12.5%. I boosted from 8 to 20 and got ~14%-21% extra depending on how you look at it, which is about the same as you'd expect from each attribute alone.
Also it shows that its not just judging based on CA, and my ideal 140 CA templates which are around about the same CA did significantly better
CryosFeron said: ok thanks!
what do you think about the find that CA can win games? as mentioned i increased my player’s CA and PA (but not the attributes) directly before a match (so that everything stayed unchanged) and suddenly i started winning against the same team I always lost against (reloaded a savegame many times)
it would mean that mental and technical attributes can make a difference because the game assigns CA to them.
maybe this is sports interactives trick to make attributes matter - even if they cannot show things like passing in the match engine (pace / acceleration are very easy to show in the match engine) they just generally change the odds of winning 😀
that’s why i made another small experiment, i gave a player a 20 in passing/technique/vision/flair and compared this to him having a 1 in these attributes. My team won more games because of higher CA but the “passing match stats” like “passes completed” or “key passes” did not change at all
I successfully refunded the FM26, so I can't continue to study it
1. Your guess might be right. I haven't conducted this test (under the condition that the attribute lock remains unchanged —— only changing the CA to observe if there are any changes in the result).
2. Under appropriate circumstances, the effects of technical and mental attributes (multivariable combinations) are positive. But in some other cases, they inhibit each other.
For Example, a certain attribute is best when it is of medium , and second best when it is of high , worst in low . increase it from 1 to 20 , It did enhance its performance, but its best performance might be around 10
Because these combinations are too complex, players cannot control them. So I think it's enough to roughly know which ones are strong and which ones are weak.
3. We all know that strong attributes do not necessarily consume more CA.
Weak attributes do not necessarily consume less CA.
For instance, "Decisions" occupies a lot of CA in all positions, but the effect is very poor
4. Therefore, CA cannot fully represent the strength of the players.
However, it cannot be ruled out that , For exactly the same attributes, if there are different ca, due to the calculations of the game engine, there may be different performances.
5. I have posted about my gaming career twice on our Chinese forum/video website for some time before.
One of them was to use a second-tier league team from China to replace the Maltese league through mod, thus being able to participate in the UEFA Champions League.
Then I look for randomly generated virtual young Chinese players.
Because the Chinese "youth training score" in the game is only 60 (very low).
The average PA of randomly generated virtual players is basically 60 to 70.
I used "full rest training", and several years later, the players were all at about 20 Pace and 20 Acceleration. However, their other attributes, such as the technical category, are very poor.
6. The result was great: the game started in 2023. Win the UEFA Champions League titles in 2026,2027,2028,2029 and 2030. The champion of the 2030 World Cup.
Some of our players once thought it was an impossible challenge.
The final average CA is only around 70 to 75. The strong opponents usually have a CA of around 170. This CA with 100 less still won all the way.
I use one of the good tactics and set-piece tactics from FM-arena. This makes a certain contribution ( Outside the contribution of attributes )
but it can also prove to some extent that this theory can be applied to actual games
(Even with such a poor PA and such a low-priced player, one can still pass one of the most difficult challenges in the game).
NandaldiaN said: How do you use these ratings?? buy players based on the % of rating in the position???
Sorry, just noticed I hadn't responded to this...
I look for Professionalism at least >=10 and Progress Rate >=5, but, I really prefer Prof >=14 and PR >=7, speed 8 or greater and age <=18 (if just looking for wonderkids to grow/sell), <=23 (if looking for squad players), <=30 if looking for 1 or 2 year gap fillers. Filter salaries/sale value to meet my squad's finances.
Then I pop what's left into a shortlist, load it into my save to see who I ACTUALLY have a shot of signing, and make offers accordingly. I really try to start with speed >=14, and ties get broken by dribbling >10, work rate > 12, etc, finally considering my tactic, unless I deem them "loan and sell" only types...
I hope this answers what you were asking me.