Tavares82 said: Who is the best? and mark what filter are you currently using? Expand
Firstly I do not use filters. To be honest I don't have the time nor the inclination to calculate this for everyone that wants to know. I have 9 grandkids. I am time poor. If you look at the early posts it will tell you the weightings for each position. You can then do the calculations.
The key attributes from the ykykyky balanced rating for DM in order are (these are the ones at 60 points or above):
90 work rate 70 pace 70 stamina 65 passing 65 decisions 65 positioning 65 teamwork 65 acceleration 60 composure
Mark said: Pretty close. The 6.51% (3 x 2.17% is 6.51%) off 100% or multiply by 93.49%. So the left back would be 66.00% x 93.49% (100% - 6.51%) = 61.70%. Still below the 64.60% of the centre back. Expand
Ahhhh ive been doing it slightly wrong , thanks for explaining the proper way , i think ive been treating the 2.17 not as a percentage and just subtracting it.
How have you found ykykyk balanced on FM23 , is it still relevant or was it primarily for zaz4.0 tactic on FM22, ive only just got round to buying FM23 and im a bit unsure which rating to use, which one are you using and are there any big differences between fm22 and fm23 when using genie scout
Rhumble said: Ahhhh ive been doing it slightly wrong , thanks for explaining the proper way , i think ive been treating the 2.17 not as a percentage and just subtracting it.
How have you found ykykyk balanced on FM23 , is it still relevant or was it primarily for zaz4.0 tactic on FM22, ive only just got round to buying FM23 and im a bit unsure which rating to use, which one are you using and are there any big differences between fm22 and fm23 when using genie scout Expand
I don't think there are any major changes to the way attributes are treated. And I don't think there will be for the next iteration either. FM25 will be interesting. They make play with the attributes then.
I flick between my own and ykykyky and think they are still both working well.
New to the forum so apologies if I am violating any rules.
Mark said: I flick between my own and ykykyky and think they are still both working well. Expand
I want your input in the comparison between Mark's and ykykyky ratings for DRL's. In particular for the following right backs. 24-year old Carmona and 19 year old wonderkid Roscio.
Carmona is better on the physical attributes which weight more in the ratings and slightly worse in the technical attributes which do not weight that much.
For the mental attributes, Mark's rating values Decisions and Positioning the most on which Roscio is better. The ykykyky rating values Off the Ball and Work Rate more on which Carmona is better.
The ratings (if I computed them correctly) are as follows: Game CA: Roscio 152, Carmona 151 Mark's rating converted to CA: Carmona 158.3, Roscio 158.1 ykykyky rating converted to CA: Carmona 153.8, Roscio 140 ykykyky -25 for under 50: Carmona: 167.3, Roscio 143.9
Hi all, i'm new around here and found my way through a YouTube video where a python script was used for player recruitment. They were very complimentary of what goes on here so I thought I would take a look. I have now read this entire thread about 7 times over.
For the record, I am using the ykykyky balanced rating in GS for FM24. I am in charge of Curzon Ashton in the Vanarama National North and wanted to see how well this would go. Using Mark's layout and the ykykyky ratings, I have amased a dirt cheap (all free transfers on wages of like £150 a week) squad that is demolishing the league, their cup and is in the 4th round of the FA Cup (the draw has been very kind to me but I did beat Port Vale away from home in the 3rd round).
The ratings etc seem to work very well for FM24 also and I am so greatful to you all for the hard work put in with all of the testing, making the GS ratings files etc.
Nucleus42 said: Hi all, i'm new around here and found my way through a YouTube video where a python script was used for player recruitment. They were very complimentary of what goes on here so I thought I would take a look. I have now read this entire thread about 7 times over.
For the record, I am using the ykykyky balanced rating in GS for FM24. I am in charge of Curzon Ashton in the Vanarama National North and wanted to see how well this would go. Using Mark's layout and the ykykyky ratings, I have amased a dirt cheap (all free transfers on wages of like £150 a week) squad that is demolishing the league, their cup and is in the 4th round of the FA Cup (the draw has been very kind to me but I did beat Port Vale away from home in the 3rd round).
The ratings etc seem to work very well for FM24 also and I am so greatful to you all for the hard work put in with all of the testing, making the GS ratings files etc. Expand
I've digested a lot of this content over the weekend, mainly thanks to squirrel_plays, on YouTube.
Historically, I've used Genie Scout to reasonable success. However I've found its laggy interface and static rating files in recent editions to be cumbersome. I've also never been 100% confident that the players it rates highly would be right for my team...something I recall not having an issue with in earlier Football Managers.
Anyway, the comments on this thread and the work done by ykykykyky and squirrel_plays inspired me somewhat to make a small Python tool which I am now using in place of Genie Scout.
How the tool works
The principle is simple. Use the supplied views in Football Manager and export to a HTML file which you then run through the Python tool (which I've called PyScoutFM for now) which outputs a HTML file you can open and start filtering / sorting within.
I've taken an initial approach of loading in ykykykyky's findings into the tool. I then multiply the rankings by a given player's attributes to calculate the weighted attributes. If a striker has 18 pace, given that has a score of 70 in the ykykykyky findings, then the striker would have a weighted attribute for pace of 12.6 (18 * 70/100). The tool then sums up all of the striker's weighted attributes and divides them by the maximum possible score. This gives the player a score out of 100. This is then repeated for the other player positions.
I'm aware of the findings talking about "multiplying by 20 and subtracting 121" but given that math just proportionally inflates all numbers then it makes no sense to include it (unless I've missed something catastrophic).
The output file
The output is a HTML file which allows you to search for specific players and sort by ratings. It has some basic pagination built in so can work across big datasets (I've tried it across 4000 players) but don't expect it to have the robustness of Genie Scout just yet
Limitations
Firstly, this is a WIP. I've not built anything in around a player being anything less than a natural in their given position. The file is a Jupyter Notebook currently, which is less than ideal to use for a potentially widely distributed piece of software...however it easily allows for my workings to be critiqued by the community. Which I am hoping those of you in this thread are kind enough to do. I've initially run this on FM24 but see no reason why it wouldn't work on earlier versions.
Credit
I want to give a shout out to squirrel_plays who inspired this rabbit hole I went on. I took the principles of their attempts with Python and Football Manager and tried to build a tool which would be adaptable for other players.
I've digested a lot of this content over the weekend, mainly thanks to squirrel_plays, on YouTube.
Historically, I've used Genie Scout to reasonable success. However I've found its laggy interface and static rating files in recent editions to be cumbersome. I've also never been 100% confident that the players it rates highly would be right for my team...something I recall not having an issue with in earlier Football Managers.
Anyway, the comments on this thread and the work done by ykykykyky and squirrel_plays inspired me somewhat to make a small Python tool which I am now using in place of Genie Scout.
How the tool works
The principle is simple. Use the supplied views in Football Manager and export to a HTML file which you then run through the Python tool (which I've called PyScoutFM for now) which outputs a HTML file you can open and start filtering / sorting within.
I've taken an initial approach of loading in ykykykyky's findings into the tool. I then multiply the rankings by a given player's attributes to calculate the weighted attributes. If a striker has 18 pace, given that has a score of 70 in the ykykykyky findings, then the striker would have a weighted attribute for pace of 12.6 (18 * 70/100). The tool then sums up all of the striker's weighted attributes and divides them by the maximum possible score. This gives the player a score out of 100. This is then repeated for the other player positions.
I'm aware of the findings talking about "multiplying by 20 and subtracting 121" but given that math just proportionally inflates all numbers then it makes no sense to include it (unless I've missed something catastrophic).
The output file
The output is a HTML file which allows you to search for specific players and sort by ratings. It has some basic pagination built in so can work across big datasets (I've tried it across 4000 players) but don't expect it to have the robustness of Genie Scout just yet
Limitations
Firstly, this is a WIP. I've not built anything in around a player being anything less than a natural in their given position. The file is a Jupyter Notebook currently, which is less than ideal to use for a potentially widely distributed piece of software...however it easily allows for my workings to be critiqued by the community. Which I am hoping those of you in this thread are kind enough to do. I've initially run this on FM24 but see no reason why it wouldn't work on earlier versions.
Credit
I want to give a shout out to squirrel_plays who inspired this rabbit hole I went on. I took the principles of their attempts with Python and Football Manager and tried to build a tool which would be adaptable for other players. Expand
I've been playing around with the Python script for a decent amount during the last couple of days, and I've also found it great fun and very useful. I've changed a decent amount of the original script, and the plan was to incorporate the ykykykyky ratings, or @Mark's ratings to get a more precise result. As I haven't gotten around to do it yet, it's great to see someone with the same idea executing it. Since the ykykykyky ratings mainly are derived from one specific tactic, it could also be interesting to how the results differ when using a different set of ratings.
Hello, very good tools however I have players who remain at 0 even though the position is well noted in the script. and I would like to know if it was possible to create a similar script to calculate staff levels?
thepunisher23 said: Hello, very good tools however I have players who remain at 0 even though the position is well noted in the script. and I would like to know if it was possible to create a similar script to calculate staff levels? Expand
It should definitely be possible to create a script that calculates a staff members level based on the attributes. The code itself shouldn't be much dissimilar to the one already existing, as you would mainly have to change the algorithm that calculates and represents the level of the staff rating you want to show. This is an existing tool that lets you calculate the star rating of a specific coach, or multiple coaches using an exported html-file, much like in the script.
thepunisher23 said: Hello, very good tools however I have players who remain at 0 even though the position is well noted in the script. and I would like to know if it was possible to create a similar script to calculate staff levels? Expand
Really good spot. You've stumbled across a current shortcoming in my weightings dictionary. I hadn't added "D (R)" into the "fb" part of the weightings dictionary. This is something you can manually do yourself in the notebook and there will likely be other gaps for other positions.
I'll push an update to the GitHub repo later today. I've added the ability to filter out attributes which are below a certain threshold (e.g. any attribute that has a value of less than 50; why should a striker be measured on their ability to take a corner for example) and it handles missing columns more elegantly.
owing said: I've been playing around with the Python script for a decent amount during the last couple of days, and I've also found it great fun and very useful. I've changed a decent amount of the original script, and the plan was to incorporate the ykykykyky ratings, or @Mark's ratings to get a more precise result. As I haven't gotten around to do it yet, it's great to see someone with the same idea executing it. Since the ykykykyky ratings mainly are derived from one specific tactic, it could also be interesting to how the results differ when using a different set of ratings. Expand
Yeah would be really interesting to see that comparison. In my notebook it's possible to have multiple weightings dictionaries defined. You can then select which one to use and run the notebook to generate the output for each.
Would value your feedback on the tool so far. I'm mulling over turning it into a web based tool if enough people value its output.
olimorris said: Yeah would be really interesting to see that comparison. In my notebook it's possible to have multiple weightings dictionaries defined. You can then select which one to use and run the notebook to generate the output for each.
Would value your feedback on the tool so far. I'm mulling over turning it into a web based tool if enough people value its output. Expand
I am tied up with other FM stuff at the moment, so unfortunately haven't had the chance to look at your work. It does sound like something very beneficial to the community. I do have one question, ideally the tool would have the offset for the positional rating which I don't think you can download. I have always calculated this manually for my teams and key scouted players. Do you somehow derive this?
owing said: It should definitely be possible to create a script that calculates a staff members level based on the attributes. The code itself shouldn't be much dissimilar to the one already existing, as you would mainly have to change the algorithm that calculates and represents the level of the staff rating you want to show. This tool is an existing tool that lets you calculate the star rating of a specific coach, or multiple coaches using an exported html-file, much like in the script. Expand
Here are the coach formulas if anyone was interesting in writing their own tool (I have my own bit of code but don't want to bother with making any fancy stuff)
Where ddm equals to Discipline + Motivation + Determination, Tco is Tactical attribute, Tec Techical and so on (these are the column names in game)
You will then get rating on scale from 0-300 which corresponds to training star values: 270-300 = 5* 240-269 = 4.5* 210-239 = 4* 180-209 = 3.5* 150-179 = 3* 120-149 = 2.5* 90-119 = 2* 60-89 = 1.5* 30-59 = 1* 15-29 = 0.5*
olimorris said: Yeah would be really interesting to see that comparison. In my notebook it's possible to have multiple weightings dictionaries defined. You can then select which one to use and run the notebook to generate the output for each.
Would value your feedback on the tool so far. I'm mulling over turning it into a web based tool if enough people value its output. Expand
I'll be sure to check the tool out over the weekend mate. I think it'd be great if the tool was accessible through the web since it'd make it a lot easier for people to use in general. I've only used Java previously, so I find it great fun tweaking the script just to get more comfortable with Python, but creating a web tool out of it certainly would help the people that just wants to use the tool without having to mess around in Jupyter Notebook.
Mark said: I am tied up with other FM stuff at the moment, so unfortunately haven't had the chance to look at your work. It does sound like something very beneficial to the community. I do have one question, ideally the tool would have the offset for the positional rating which I don't think you can download. I have always calculated this manually for my teams and key scouted players. Do you somehow derive this? Expand
Good question and currently a limitation of the tool. It assumes that a player who been given a rating, is a natural in that position.
I don't think you can get at that data using the standard views in FM, but I believe if you have the in-game editor, you can access hidden data points. Hoping when that arrives on 6 November I'll be able to add them. Will be very easy to do in the current version of the tool.
EDIT: Just seen that in FM23 those positional attributes aren't available in a view
olimorris said: Good question and currently a limitation of the tool. It assumes that a player who been given a rating, is a natural in that position.
I don't think you can get at that data using the standard views in FM, but I believe if you have the in-game editor, you can access hidden data points. Hoping when that arrives on 6 November I'll be able to add them. Will be very easy to do in the current version of the tool.
EDIT: Just seen that in FM23 those positional attributes aren't available in a view Expand
IIRC @Mark showed somewhere in this thread exactly how he calculated the offset, but I can't tell on which page. I can look into it at a later point when I have time.
owing said: IIRC @Mark showed somewhere in this thread exactly how he calculated the offset, but I can't tell on which page. I can look into it at a later point when I have time. Expand
Yes I remember reading that. What I can't workout is how you get at the underlying data. For example, how do I know that a player is only Accomplished as an "AM (C)" as opposed to Natural
Best you can probably do is go to the player search tab and there you can see players that are natural in chosen positions, but that means user would need to export files separately for each position
olimorris said: Yes I remember reading that. What I can't workout is how you get at the underlying data. For example, how do I know that a player is only Accomplished as an "AM (C)" as opposed to Natural Expand
I get what you're saying. There probably is some kind of workaround to make it happen, but I can't really tell how. On another note, the ykykyk ratings are to my understanding relative to the player roles in the ZAZ - Blue tactic, which uses IWB's, Wingers and a RPM. If I wanted to get a more specific rating for the meta roles (DM, SV, WB, IW, etc..) would I need to add different ratings to the code?
owing said: I get what you're saying. There probably is some kind of workaround to make it happen, but I can't really tell how. On another note, the ykykyk ratings are to my understanding relative to the player roles in the ZAZ - Blue tactic, which uses IWB's, Wingers and a RPM. If I wanted to get a more specific rating for the meta roles (DM, SV, WB, IW, etc..) would I need to add different ratings to the code? Expand
Ah, I hadn't explored ZAZ Blue enough to realise that. But you're absolutely right, alter the dictionary values (in the attribute weightings section) in the notebook. If it doesn't make sense, let me know on here or via a GitHub issue and I can take a look.
olimorris said: Ah, I hadn't explored ZAZ Blue enough to realise that. But you're absolutely right, alter the dictionary values (in the attribute weightings section) in the notebook. If it doesn't make sense, let me know on here or via a GitHub issue and I can take a look. Expand
Hopefully I'll get it to work haha. I figured it'd be useful since the majority of the tactics on here use the same roles, and I love me a Segundo Volante!
I'll add the ykykyk_balanced ratings to the notebook later and push to GitHub. I've also added in two new columns, Best Position and Best Rating to make it a little more Genie Scout esque. The ratings are now stored in a ratings.json file which is probably a bit easier to edit and allows for ratings to be easily shared between folk.
Conscious that the Jupyter Notebooks will suck for most people so I will turn it into a Python utility which can be run from the command line as an intermediate step before potentially turning it into a web app.
olimorris said: Ah, I hadn't explored ZAZ Blue enough to realise that. But you're absolutely right, alter the dictionary values (in the attribute weightings section) in the notebook. If it doesn't make sense, let me know on here or via a GitHub issue and I can take a look. Expand
I did spend a bit of time deriving and testing position scores for positions not originally included in the ZaZ Blue tests. I did also do extensive testing of tactics using different structures and they still seemed to work. So I do believe the ykykyky balanced ratings are ok for all positions. My only doubt would be on the GK position.
In terms of roles vs positions, I think this has been covered off pretty extensively, positions are far more important. If your player doesn't have the role it doesn't seem to impact. This may change in coming releases as the match engine undergoes major changes, however the the current version still seems to work with the ratings we have been using since the development of the ykykyky and MDW genie scout ratings.
I've digested a lot of this content over the weekend, mainly thanks to squirrel_plays, on YouTube.
Historically, I've used Genie Scout to reasonable success. However I've found its laggy interface and static rating files in recent editions to be cumbersome. I've also never been 100% confident that the players it rates highly would be right for my team...something I recall not having an issue with in earlier Football Managers.
Anyway, the comments on this thread and the work done by ykykykyky and squirrel_plays inspired me somewhat to make a small Python tool which I am now using in place of Genie Scout.
How the tool works
The principle is simple. Use the supplied views in Football Manager and export to a HTML file which you then run through the Python tool (which I've called PyScoutFM for now) which outputs a HTML file you can open and start filtering / sorting within.
I've taken an initial approach of loading in ykykykyky's findings into the tool. I then multiply the rankings by a given player's attributes to calculate the weighted attributes. If a striker has 18 pace, given that has a score of 70 in the ykykykyky findings, then the striker would have a weighted attribute for pace of 12.6 (18 * 70/100). The tool then sums up all of the striker's weighted attributes and divides them by the maximum possible score. This gives the player a score out of 100. This is then repeated for the other player positions.
I'm aware of the findings talking about "multiplying by 20 and subtracting 121" but given that math just proportionally inflates all numbers then it makes no sense to include it (unless I've missed something catastrophic).
The output file
The output is a HTML file which allows you to search for specific players and sort by ratings. It has some basic pagination built in so can work across big datasets (I've tried it across 4000 players) but don't expect it to have the robustness of Genie Scout just yet
Limitations
Firstly, this is a WIP. I've not built anything in around a player being anything less than a natural in their given position. The file is a Jupyter Notebook currently, which is less than ideal to use for a potentially widely distributed piece of software...however it easily allows for my workings to be critiqued by the community. Which I am hoping those of you in this thread are kind enough to do. I've initially run this on FM24 but see no reason why it wouldn't work on earlier versions.
Credit
I want to give a shout out to squirrel_plays who inspired this rabbit hole I went on. I took the principles of their attempts with Python and Football Manager and tried to build a tool which would be adaptable for other players. Expand
I am not familiar with Python/coding so I assume this is something specific to people who are and not a everyone can use type of thing? Apologies if that's a misunderstanding on my part
Lights123 said: I am not familiar with Python/coding so I assume this is something specific to people who are and not a everyone can use type of thing? Apologies if that's a misunderstanding on my part Expand
No I don't think so but if you want to attempt to play with it and post any issues on here and I can walk you through.
I will be turning it into an app in the next week or two.
Tavares82 said: Who is the best? and mark what filter are you currently using?
Firstly I do not use filters. To be honest I don't have the time nor the inclination to calculate this for everyone that wants to know. I have 9 grandkids. I am time poor. If you look at the early posts it will tell you the weightings for each position. You can then do the calculations.
The key attributes from the ykykyky balanced rating for DM in order are (these are the ones at 60 points or above):
90 work rate
70 pace
70 stamina
65 passing
65 decisions
65 positioning
65 teamwork
65 acceleration
60 composure
Mark said: Pretty close. The 6.51% (3 x 2.17% is 6.51%) off 100% or multiply by 93.49%. So the left back would be 66.00% x 93.49% (100% - 6.51%) = 61.70%. Still below the 64.60% of the centre back.
Ahhhh ive been doing it slightly wrong , thanks for explaining the proper way , i think ive been treating the 2.17 not as a percentage and just subtracting it.
How have you found ykykyk balanced on FM23 , is it still relevant or was it primarily for zaz4.0 tactic on FM22, ive only just got round to buying FM23 and im a bit unsure which rating to use, which one are you using and are there any big differences between fm22 and fm23 when using genie scout
Rhumble said: Ahhhh ive been doing it slightly wrong , thanks for explaining the proper way , i think ive been treating the 2.17 not as a percentage and just subtracting it.
How have you found ykykyk balanced on FM23 , is it still relevant or was it primarily for zaz4.0 tactic on FM22, ive only just got round to buying FM23 and im a bit unsure which rating to use, which one are you using and are there any big differences between fm22 and fm23 when using genie scout
I don't think there are any major changes to the way attributes are treated. And I don't think there will be for the next iteration either. FM25 will be interesting. They make play with the attributes then.
I flick between my own and ykykyky and think they are still both working well.
New to the forum so apologies if I am violating any rules.
Mark said: I flick between my own and ykykyky and think they are still both working well.
I want your input in the comparison between Mark's and ykykyky ratings for DRL's. In particular for the following right backs. 24-year old Carmona and 19 year old wonderkid Roscio.
Carmona is better on the physical attributes which weight more in the ratings and slightly worse in the technical attributes which do not weight that much.
For the mental attributes, Mark's rating values Decisions and Positioning the most on which Roscio is better. The ykykyky rating values Off the Ball and Work Rate more on which Carmona is better.
The ratings (if I computed them correctly) are as follows:
Game CA: Roscio 152, Carmona 151
Mark's rating converted to CA: Carmona 158.3, Roscio 158.1
ykykyky rating converted to CA: Carmona 153.8, Roscio 140
ykykyky -25 for under 50: Carmona: 167.3, Roscio 143.9
Hi all, i'm new around here and found my way through a YouTube video where a python script was used for player recruitment. They were very complimentary of what goes on here so I thought I would take a look. I have now read this entire thread about 7 times over.
For the record, I am using the ykykyky balanced rating in GS for FM24. I am in charge of Curzon Ashton in the Vanarama National North and wanted to see how well this would go.
Using Mark's layout and the ykykyky ratings, I have amased a dirt cheap (all free transfers on wages of like £150 a week) squad that is demolishing the league, their cup and is in the 4th round of the FA Cup (the draw has been very kind to me but I did beat Port Vale away from home in the 3rd round).
The ratings etc seem to work very well for FM24 also and I am so greatful to you all for the hard work put in with all of the testing, making the GS ratings files etc.
Nucleus42 said: Hi all, i'm new around here and found my way through a YouTube video where a python script was used for player recruitment. They were very complimentary of what goes on here so I thought I would take a look. I have now read this entire thread about 7 times over.
For the record, I am using the ykykyky balanced rating in GS for FM24. I am in charge of Curzon Ashton in the Vanarama National North and wanted to see how well this would go.
Using Mark's layout and the ykykyky ratings, I have amased a dirt cheap (all free transfers on wages of like £150 a week) squad that is demolishing the league, their cup and is in the 4th round of the FA Cup (the draw has been very kind to me but I did beat Port Vale away from home in the 3rd round).
The ratings etc seem to work very well for FM24 also and I am so greatful to you all for the hard work put in with all of the testing, making the GS ratings files etc.
Does Genie Scout 23 work for FM24?
owing said: Does Genie Scout 23 work for FM24?
No
CBP87 said: No
I wonder how @Nucleus42 is able to use the Genie Scout in FM24 if that's the case. Maybe I'm missing something.
owing said: I wonder how @Nucleus42 is able to use the Genie Scout in FM24 if that's the case. Maybe I'm missing something.
They probably have some early thing for people that pay, or testers.
owing said: I wonder how @Nucleus42 is able to use the Genie Scout in FM24 if that's the case. Maybe I'm missing something.
Because there is a GS24
Background
I've digested a lot of this content over the weekend, mainly thanks to squirrel_plays, on YouTube.
Historically, I've used Genie Scout to reasonable success. However I've found its laggy interface and static rating files in recent editions to be cumbersome. I've also never been 100% confident that the players it rates highly would be right for my team...something I recall not having an issue with in earlier Football Managers.
Anyway, the comments on this thread and the work done by ykykykyky and squirrel_plays inspired me somewhat to make a small Python tool which I am now using in place of Genie Scout.
How the tool works
The principle is simple. Use the supplied views in Football Manager and export to a HTML file which you then run through the Python tool (which I've called PyScoutFM for now) which outputs a HTML file you can open and start filtering / sorting within.
I've taken an initial approach of loading in ykykykyky's findings into the tool. I then multiply the rankings by a given player's attributes to calculate the weighted attributes. If a striker has 18 pace, given that has a score of 70 in the ykykykyky findings, then the striker would have a weighted attribute for pace of 12.6 (18 * 70/100). The tool then sums up all of the striker's weighted attributes and divides them by the maximum possible score. This gives the player a score out of 100. This is then repeated for the other player positions.
I'm aware of the findings talking about "multiplying by 20 and subtracting 121" but given that math just proportionally inflates all numbers then it makes no sense to include it (unless I've missed something catastrophic).
The output file
The output is a HTML file which allows you to search for specific players and sort by ratings. It has some basic pagination built in so can work across big datasets (I've tried it across 4000 players) but don't expect it to have the robustness of Genie Scout just yet
Limitations
Firstly, this is a WIP. I've not built anything in around a player being anything less than a natural in their given position. The file is a Jupyter Notebook currently, which is less than ideal to use for a potentially widely distributed piece of software...however it easily allows for my workings to be critiqued by the community. Which I am hoping those of you in this thread are kind enough to do. I've initially run this on FM24 but see no reason why it wouldn't work on earlier versions.
Credit
I want to give a shout out to squirrel_plays who inspired this rabbit hole I went on. I took the principles of their attempts with Python and Football Manager and tried to build a tool which would be adaptable for other players.
olimorris said: Background
I've digested a lot of this content over the weekend, mainly thanks to squirrel_plays, on YouTube.
Historically, I've used Genie Scout to reasonable success. However I've found its laggy interface and static rating files in recent editions to be cumbersome. I've also never been 100% confident that the players it rates highly would be right for my team...something I recall not having an issue with in earlier Football Managers.
Anyway, the comments on this thread and the work done by ykykykyky and squirrel_plays inspired me somewhat to make a small Python tool which I am now using in place of Genie Scout.
How the tool works
The principle is simple. Use the supplied views in Football Manager and export to a HTML file which you then run through the Python tool (which I've called PyScoutFM for now) which outputs a HTML file you can open and start filtering / sorting within.
I've taken an initial approach of loading in ykykykyky's findings into the tool. I then multiply the rankings by a given player's attributes to calculate the weighted attributes. If a striker has 18 pace, given that has a score of 70 in the ykykykyky findings, then the striker would have a weighted attribute for pace of 12.6 (18 * 70/100). The tool then sums up all of the striker's weighted attributes and divides them by the maximum possible score. This gives the player a score out of 100. This is then repeated for the other player positions.
I'm aware of the findings talking about "multiplying by 20 and subtracting 121" but given that math just proportionally inflates all numbers then it makes no sense to include it (unless I've missed something catastrophic).
The output file
The output is a HTML file which allows you to search for specific players and sort by ratings. It has some basic pagination built in so can work across big datasets (I've tried it across 4000 players) but don't expect it to have the robustness of Genie Scout just yet
Limitations
Firstly, this is a WIP. I've not built anything in around a player being anything less than a natural in their given position. The file is a Jupyter Notebook currently, which is less than ideal to use for a potentially widely distributed piece of software...however it easily allows for my workings to be critiqued by the community. Which I am hoping those of you in this thread are kind enough to do. I've initially run this on FM24 but see no reason why it wouldn't work on earlier versions.
Credit
I want to give a shout out to squirrel_plays who inspired this rabbit hole I went on. I took the principles of their attempts with Python and Football Manager and tried to build a tool which would be adaptable for other players.
I've been playing around with the Python script for a decent amount during the last couple of days, and I've also found it great fun and very useful. I've changed a decent amount of the original script, and the plan was to incorporate the ykykykyky ratings, or @Mark's ratings to get a more precise result. As I haven't gotten around to do it yet, it's great to see someone with the same idea executing it. Since the ykykykyky ratings mainly are derived from one specific tactic, it could also be interesting to how the results differ when using a different set of ratings.
Hello, very good tools however I have players who remain at 0 even though the position is well noted in the script. and I would like to know if it was possible to create a similar script to calculate staff levels?
thepunisher23 said: Hello, very good tools however I have players who remain at 0 even though the position is well noted in the script. and I would like to know if it was possible to create a similar script to calculate staff levels?
It should definitely be possible to create a script that calculates a staff members level based on the attributes. The code itself shouldn't be much dissimilar to the one already existing, as you would mainly have to change the algorithm that calculates and represents the level of the staff rating you want to show. This is an existing tool that lets you calculate the star rating of a specific coach, or multiple coaches using an exported html-file, much like in the script.
thepunisher23 said: Hello, very good tools however I have players who remain at 0 even though the position is well noted in the script. and I would like to know if it was possible to create a similar script to calculate staff levels?
Really good spot. You've stumbled across a current shortcoming in my weightings dictionary. I hadn't added "D (R)" into the "fb" part of the weightings dictionary. This is something you can manually do yourself in the notebook and there will likely be other gaps for other positions.
I'll push an update to the GitHub repo later today. I've added the ability to filter out attributes which are below a certain threshold (e.g. any attribute that has a value of less than 50; why should a striker be measured on their ability to take a corner for example) and it handles missing columns more elegantly.
owing said: I've been playing around with the Python script for a decent amount during the last couple of days, and I've also found it great fun and very useful. I've changed a decent amount of the original script, and the plan was to incorporate the ykykykyky ratings, or @Mark's ratings to get a more precise result. As I haven't gotten around to do it yet, it's great to see someone with the same idea executing it. Since the ykykykyky ratings mainly are derived from one specific tactic, it could also be interesting to how the results differ when using a different set of ratings.
Yeah would be really interesting to see that comparison. In my notebook it's possible to have multiple weightings dictionaries defined. You can then select which one to use and run the notebook to generate the output for each.
Would value your feedback on the tool so far. I'm mulling over turning it into a web based tool if enough people value its output.
olimorris said: Yeah would be really interesting to see that comparison. In my notebook it's possible to have multiple weightings dictionaries defined. You can then select which one to use and run the notebook to generate the output for each.
Would value your feedback on the tool so far. I'm mulling over turning it into a web based tool if enough people value its output.
I am tied up with other FM stuff at the moment, so unfortunately haven't had the chance to look at your work. It does sound like something very beneficial to the community. I do have one question, ideally the tool would have the offset for the positional rating which I don't think you can download. I have always calculated this manually for my teams and key scouted players. Do you somehow derive this?
owing said: It should definitely be possible to create a script that calculates a staff members level based on the attributes. The code itself shouldn't be much dissimilar to the one already existing, as you would mainly have to change the algorithm that calculates and represents the level of the staff rating you want to show. This tool is an existing tool that lets you calculate the star rating of a specific coach, or multiple coaches using an exported html-file, much like in the script.
Here are the coach formulas if anyone was interesting in writing their own tool (I have my own bit of code but don't want to bother with making any fancy stuff)
def_tac = 6 * coach['Def'] + 3 * coach['TCo'] + 2 * ddm
def_tech = 6 * coach['Def'] + 3 * coach['Tec'] + 2 * ddm
att_tac = 6 * coach['Att'] + 3 * coach['TCo'] + 2 * ddm
att_tech = 6 * coach['Att'] + 3 * coach['Tec'] + 2 * ddm
pos_tac = 6 * coach['Men'] + 3 * coach['TCo'] + 2 * ddm
pos_tech = 6 * coach['Men'] + 3 * coach['Tec'] + 2 * ddm
fitness = 9 * coach['Fit'] + 2 * ddm
gk_shot = 9 * coach['GkS'] + 2 * ddm
gk_handling = 6 * coach['GkH'] + 3 * coach['GkD'] + 2 * ddm
Where ddm equals to Discipline + Motivation + Determination, Tco is Tactical attribute, Tec Techical and so on (these are the column names in game)
You will then get rating on scale from 0-300 which corresponds to training star values:
270-300 = 5*
240-269 = 4.5*
210-239 = 4*
180-209 = 3.5*
150-179 = 3*
120-149 = 2.5*
90-119 = 2*
60-89 = 1.5*
30-59 = 1*
15-29 = 0.5*
olimorris said: Yeah would be really interesting to see that comparison. In my notebook it's possible to have multiple weightings dictionaries defined. You can then select which one to use and run the notebook to generate the output for each.
Would value your feedback on the tool so far. I'm mulling over turning it into a web based tool if enough people value its output.
I'll be sure to check the tool out over the weekend mate. I think it'd be great if the tool was accessible through the web since it'd make it a lot easier for people to use in general. I've only used Java previously, so I find it great fun tweaking the script just to get more comfortable with Python, but creating a web tool out of it certainly would help the people that just wants to use the tool without having to mess around in Jupyter Notebook.
Mark said: I am tied up with other FM stuff at the moment, so unfortunately haven't had the chance to look at your work. It does sound like something very beneficial to the community. I do have one question, ideally the tool would have the offset for the positional rating which I don't think you can download. I have always calculated this manually for my teams and key scouted players. Do you somehow derive this?
Good question and currently a limitation of the tool. It assumes that a player who been given a rating, is a natural in that position.
I don't think you can get at that data using the standard views in FM, but I believe if you have the in-game editor, you can access hidden data points. Hoping when that arrives on 6 November I'll be able to add them. Will be very easy to do in the current version of the tool.
EDIT: Just seen that in FM23 those positional attributes aren't available in a view
olimorris said: Good question and currently a limitation of the tool. It assumes that a player who been given a rating, is a natural in that position.
I don't think you can get at that data using the standard views in FM, but I believe if you have the in-game editor, you can access hidden data points. Hoping when that arrives on 6 November I'll be able to add them. Will be very easy to do in the current version of the tool.
EDIT: Just seen that in FM23 those positional attributes aren't available in a view
IIRC @Mark showed somewhere in this thread exactly how he calculated the offset, but I can't tell on which page. I can look into it at a later point when I have time.
owing said: IIRC @Mark showed somewhere in this thread exactly how he calculated the offset, but I can't tell on which page. I can look into it at a later point when I have time.
Yes I remember reading that. What I can't workout is how you get at the underlying data. For example, how do I know that a player is only Accomplished as an "AM (C)" as opposed to Natural
Best you can probably do is go to the player search tab and there you can see players that are natural in chosen positions, but that means user would need to export files separately for each position
olimorris said: Yes I remember reading that. What I can't workout is how you get at the underlying data. For example, how do I know that a player is only Accomplished as an "AM (C)" as opposed to Natural
I get what you're saying. There probably is some kind of workaround to make it happen, but I can't really tell how. On another note, the ykykyk ratings are to my understanding relative to the player roles in the ZAZ - Blue tactic, which uses IWB's, Wingers and a RPM. If I wanted to get a more specific rating for the meta roles (DM, SV, WB, IW, etc..) would I need to add different ratings to the code?
owing said: I get what you're saying. There probably is some kind of workaround to make it happen, but I can't really tell how. On another note, the ykykyk ratings are to my understanding relative to the player roles in the ZAZ - Blue tactic, which uses IWB's, Wingers and a RPM. If I wanted to get a more specific rating for the meta roles (DM, SV, WB, IW, etc..) would I need to add different ratings to the code?
Ah, I hadn't explored ZAZ Blue enough to realise that. But you're absolutely right, alter the dictionary values (in the attribute weightings section) in the notebook. If it doesn't make sense, let me know on here or via a GitHub issue and I can take a look.
olimorris said: Ah, I hadn't explored ZAZ Blue enough to realise that. But you're absolutely right, alter the dictionary values (in the attribute weightings section) in the notebook. If it doesn't make sense, let me know on here or via a GitHub issue and I can take a look.
Hopefully I'll get it to work haha. I figured it'd be useful since the majority of the tactics on here use the same roles, and I love me a Segundo Volante!
I'll add the ykykyk_balanced ratings to the notebook later and push to GitHub. I've also added in two new columns, Best Position and Best Rating to make it a little more Genie Scout esque. The ratings are now stored in a ratings.json file which is probably a bit easier to edit and allows for ratings to be easily shared between folk.
Conscious that the Jupyter Notebooks will suck for most people so I will turn it into a Python utility which can be run from the command line as an intermediate step before potentially turning it into a web app.
olimorris said: Ah, I hadn't explored ZAZ Blue enough to realise that. But you're absolutely right, alter the dictionary values (in the attribute weightings section) in the notebook. If it doesn't make sense, let me know on here or via a GitHub issue and I can take a look.
I did spend a bit of time deriving and testing position scores for positions not originally included in the ZaZ Blue tests. I did also do extensive testing of tactics using different structures and they still seemed to work. So I do believe the ykykyky balanced ratings are ok for all positions. My only doubt would be on the GK position.
In terms of roles vs positions, I think this has been covered off pretty extensively, positions are far more important. If your player doesn't have the role it doesn't seem to impact. This may change in coming releases as the match engine undergoes major changes, however the the current version still seems to work with the ratings we have been using since the development of the ykykyky and MDW genie scout ratings.
olimorris said: Background
I've digested a lot of this content over the weekend, mainly thanks to squirrel_plays, on YouTube.
Historically, I've used Genie Scout to reasonable success. However I've found its laggy interface and static rating files in recent editions to be cumbersome. I've also never been 100% confident that the players it rates highly would be right for my team...something I recall not having an issue with in earlier Football Managers.
Anyway, the comments on this thread and the work done by ykykykyky and squirrel_plays inspired me somewhat to make a small Python tool which I am now using in place of Genie Scout.
How the tool works
The principle is simple. Use the supplied views in Football Manager and export to a HTML file which you then run through the Python tool (which I've called PyScoutFM for now) which outputs a HTML file you can open and start filtering / sorting within.
I've taken an initial approach of loading in ykykykyky's findings into the tool. I then multiply the rankings by a given player's attributes to calculate the weighted attributes. If a striker has 18 pace, given that has a score of 70 in the ykykykyky findings, then the striker would have a weighted attribute for pace of 12.6 (18 * 70/100). The tool then sums up all of the striker's weighted attributes and divides them by the maximum possible score. This gives the player a score out of 100. This is then repeated for the other player positions.
I'm aware of the findings talking about "multiplying by 20 and subtracting 121" but given that math just proportionally inflates all numbers then it makes no sense to include it (unless I've missed something catastrophic).
The output file
The output is a HTML file which allows you to search for specific players and sort by ratings. It has some basic pagination built in so can work across big datasets (I've tried it across 4000 players) but don't expect it to have the robustness of Genie Scout just yet
Limitations
Firstly, this is a WIP. I've not built anything in around a player being anything less than a natural in their given position. The file is a Jupyter Notebook currently, which is less than ideal to use for a potentially widely distributed piece of software...however it easily allows for my workings to be critiqued by the community. Which I am hoping those of you in this thread are kind enough to do. I've initially run this on FM24 but see no reason why it wouldn't work on earlier versions.
Credit
I want to give a shout out to squirrel_plays who inspired this rabbit hole I went on. I took the principles of their attempts with Python and Football Manager and tried to build a tool which would be adaptable for other players.
I am not familiar with Python/coding so I assume this is something specific to people who are and not a everyone can use type of thing? Apologies if that's a misunderstanding on my part
Lights123 said: I am not familiar with Python/coding so I assume this is something specific to people who are and not a everyone can use type of thing? Apologies if that's a misunderstanding on my part
No I don't think so but if you want to attempt to play with it and post any issues on here and I can walk you through.
I will be turning it into an app in the next week or two.