TL;DR: I am really struggling to get my wide players to dribble past opponents, with my wingers averaging only about 3 dribbles per game. Has anyone had success increasing dribble numbers, and if so, how did you achieve it?
The Tactical Goal
I am trying to replicate Anthony Gordon’s real-world movement for England—specifically how he received the ball on the flank against Costa Rica, knocked it past his opponent, drove directly at goal and either crossed from the byline or shot.
What I’ve Tried So Far:
Tactical Tweak 1: Using a modified version of CopyCat v6. I have set the team width to Wide, focused progression Down Both Flanks, and added the Dribble More instruction to both Inside Forwards (IFs). Despite this, they consistently look to pass rather than take on their marker.
Tactical Tweak 2: In a previous save, I applied the Hug Line trait alongside Knocks Ball Past Opponent and Runs With Ball Often to Kylian Mbappé. He still only averaged 3.14 dribbles per 90 mins over the season. I even signed Kaoru Mitoma (who had the best dribbles per 90 in the Premier League), but his numbers dropped immediately in my system.
Personnel: In my current PSV save,My IFs have good Dribbling, Agility, Acceleration, and Pace but are averaging just over 3 dribbles per 90 mins
Other Experiments: I have tried various shapes and different wide roles, but nothing seems to unlock consistent dribbling.
If anyone has figured out the right combination of instructions, roles, or traits to get wide players driving at their man in the current match engine, I would really appreciate your advice!
TL;DR: I am really struggling to get my wide players to dribble past opponents, with my wingers averaging only about 3 dribbles per game. Has anyone had success increasing dribble numbers, and if so, how did you achieve it?
The Tactical Goal
I am trying to replicate Anthony Gordon’s real-world movement for England—specifically how he received the ball on the flank against Costa Rica, knocked it past his opponent, drove directly at goal and either crossed from the byline or shot.
What I’ve Tried So Far:
Tactical Tweak 1: Using a modified version of CopyCat v6. I have set the team width to Wide, focused progression Down Both Flanks, and added the Dribble More instruction to both Inside Forwards (IFs). Despite this, they consistently look to pass rather than take on their marker.
Tactical Tweak 2: In a previous save, I applied the Hug Line trait alongside Knocks Ball Past Opponent and Runs With Ball Often to Kylian Mbappé. He still only averaged 3.14 dribbles per 90 mins over the season. I even signed Kaoru Mitoma (who had the best dribbles per 90 in the Premier League), but his numbers dropped immediately in my system.
Personnel: In my current PSV save,My IFs have good Dribbling, Agility, Acceleration, and Pace but are averaging just over 3 dribbles per 90 mins
Other Experiments: I have tried various shapes and different wide roles, but nothing seems to unlock consistent dribbling.
If anyone has figured out the right combination of instructions, roles, or traits to get wide players driving at their man in the current match engine, I would really appreciate your advice! Expand
If you are using a more direct passing system, it is only natural that they will often pass far ahead instead of trying to dribble.
Unfortunately @ZaZ reducing the passing directness didn't work. I even slowed the tempo down and the results were getting worse. Just an FYI...I'm trying these changes on my test save with City and I'm inputting Doku on the left and Foden on the right. I ran multiple tests using shorter passing but altering different instructions like tempo and width and unfortunately the dribbles per 90 dropped at one point for Foden to 1.93
CBP87 said: Unfortunately @ZaZ reducing the passing directness didn't work. I even slowed the tempo down and the results were getting worse. Just an FYI...I'm trying these changes on my test save with City and I'm inputting Doku on the left and Foden on the right. I ran multiple tests using shorter passing but altering different instructions like tempo and width and unfortunately the dribbles per 90 dropped at one point for Foden to 1.93 Expand
Maybe using instructions like Run Wide With the Ball can help, and letting them Stay Wider.
When making decisions, each player will look to their radius of action and calculate the expected success with each of their possible actions. The radius of action can change depending on their vision, passing directness and take risks instructions, which also influences what is an acceptable success rate for passing. If they believe dribbling is more desirable than passing, they will dribble instead.
What I think is happening is that your wingbacks always have good options nearby or ahead, so they prefer to pass than to risk a dribble. Getting them away from other players, closer to the side line, might increase their odds of dribbling, but that is just theory.
ZaZ said: Maybe using instructions like Run Wide With the Ball can help, and letting them Stay Wider.
When making decisions, each player will look to their radius of action and calculate the expected success with each of their possible actions. The radius of action can change depending on their vision, passing directness and take risks instructions, which also influences what is an acceptable success rate for passing. If they believe dribbling is more desirable than passing, they will dribble instead.
What I think is happening is that your wingbacks always have good options nearby or ahead, so they prefer to pass than to risk a dribble. Getting them away from other players, closer to the side line, might increase their odds of dribbling, but that is just theory. Expand
To be honest, I was on a similar thought process, I have tried to isolate the wide players as much as possibly, I even as a test brought in Mitoma and Pedro Neto as they had the highest dribbles per 90 but again the results show the dribbles per 90 dropped dramatically. I experimented with different roles and roles of other positions to see if that helps, I have set the width to as wide as possible, focused play down the wings. Nothing I am doing seems to be able to get me past 4.00 dribbles per 90. I have added different traits. I have even amended the attributes to 20 which I believe are needed for a good dribbler but still no joy.
So i've done a little experimenting trying to get more dribbles per 90. Here's the tactic nothing special.
First of all i tried to have my players as the role wingers to emphasize the wide positioning. Below are the player instructions.
The idea is keep them wide. Make fewer runs because i want the ball in feet so they can make their dribbles, and fewer risks because i want them to focus on attempting dribbles not passes. Byline to try and get that knock past and just run towards the byline. Also played left footed on the left and right footed on the right to encourage the down the line dribbles. Another thing to keep in mind is, most tactics i see have underlaps on both sides, i've found underlaps again encourages the wide player to pass, which is what i didn't want, so i've on purpose not had that instruction on.
Here's the numbers through 10 games:
Madueke plays on the left and Martinelli on the right. Nwaneri has been subbed on for Madueke.
Here's an example of what i at least think it is you wanted to happen. I replied on the SI forum aswell, there's a GIF of what i assume you are looking for.
juliius said: So i've done a little experimenting trying to get more dribbles per 90. Here's the tactic nothing special.
First of all i tried to have my players as the role wingers to emphasize the wide positioning. Below are the player instructions.
The idea is keep them wide. Make fewer runs because i want the ball in feet so they can make their dribbles, and fewer risks because i want them to focus on attempting dribbles not passes. Byline to try and get that knock past and just run towards the byline. Also played left footed on the left and right footed on the right to encourage the down the line dribbles. Another thing to keep in mind is, most tactics i see have underlaps on both sides, i've found underlaps again encourages the wide player to pass, which is what i didn't want, so i've on purpose not had that instruction on.
Here's the numbers through 10 games:
Madueke plays on the left and Martinelli on the right. Nwaneri has been subbed on for Madueke.
Here's an example of what i at least think it is you wanted to happen. I replied on the SI forum aswell, there's a GIF of what i assume you are looking for. Expand
Good work and thank you for your input, I'll give that a whirl and see how it gets on
juliius said: I added the pass into feet midway through the season as the only change from earlier. The numbers got closer to 7 dribbles per 90. Expand
I've added that but unfortunately it didn't help when testing. Although its a improvement what you've got, I am still seeing players averaging over 10 dribbles per game. I've watched full games and I literally for the life of me figure out what Mitoma is doing different to Doku. Both are hugging the line, both are pretty much isolated, but Doku passes and Mitoma runs
CBP87 said: I've added that but unfortunately it didn't help when testing. Although its a improvement what you've got, I am still seeing players averaging over 10 dribbles per game. I've watched full games and I literally for the life of me figure out what Mitoma is doing different to Doku. Both are hugging the line, both are pretty much isolated, but Doku passes and Mitoma runs Expand
I know we can see the roles the AI manager uses, is there a way to see instructions somehow? The only thing i can think of is the ingame commentary where you might be able to decipher some instructions.
At least from the season i've run here, every single player in the premier league that finished with a higher dribbles/90 than Martinelli and Madueke were playing as a winger.
juliius said: I know we can see the roles the AI manager uses, is there a way to see instructions somehow? The only thing i can think of is the ingame commentary where you might be able to decipher some instructions.
At least from the season i've run here, every single player in the premier league that finished with a higher dribbles/90 than Martinelli and Madueke were playing as a winger. Expand
I've tried with winger too, sorry I don't want it to come across that I am dismissing what you saying because I genuinely am not. I looked at Brighton and Chelsea's formation and they play a 4231, Mitoma playing on the left as a winger and Neto on the right as a winger, both of them playing on the side of their weakest foot and both have pretty poor weak foots. On watching them though, they weren't cutting inside at all which you would probably expect due to them being on the wrong foot side
CBP87 said: I've tried with winger too, sorry I don't want it to come across that I am dismissing what you saying because I genuinely am not. I looked at Brighton and Chelsea's formation and they play a 4231, Mitoma playing on the left as a winger and Neto on the right as a winger, both of them playing on the side of their weakest foot and both have pretty poor weak foots. On watching them though, they weren't cutting inside at all which you would probably expect due to them being on the wrong foot side Expand
Doesn't sound unreasonable to me that they don't cut inside when they play as wingers, even with the opposite foot side. Also not dismissing me at all, seems like you see the same as i do with wingers.
CBP87 said: I've tried with winger too, sorry I don't want it to come across that I am dismissing what you saying because I genuinely am not. I looked at Brighton and Chelsea's formation and they play a 4231, Mitoma playing on the left as a winger and Neto on the right as a winger, both of them playing on the side of their weakest foot and both have pretty poor weak foots. On watching them though, they weren't cutting inside at all which you would probably expect due to them being on the wrong foot side Expand
I've had some success. So I've straight up nabbed Maresca's formation, not that it's revolutionary. Here are the instructions.
Here are the results after 19 games in the league.
One instruction that seemed to instantly improve the dribbles per 90 numbers, was removing the progress play instruction. When i've had it on balanced it produces more dribbles per 90 than both focus flanks and focus middle did.
Looking at the input from Julius, it might be that players dribble more when winger and wingbacks are further apart from each other. I guess the problem is that AWBs used in your tactic play too close to IFs, promoting passes instead of dribbles. I will test here a tactic with AWB vs a similar one with WB in the back to see if there is a huge difference.
ZaZ said: Looking at the input from Julius, it might be that players dribble more when winger and wingbacks are further apart from each other. I guess the problem is that AWBs used in your tactic play too close to IFs, promoting passes instead of dribbles. I will test here a tactic with AWB vs a similar one with WB in the back to see if there is a huge difference. Expand
Make sense in my head aswell. In terms of getting more from a good dribbler. If you have a good dribbler do you want more players close congesting his space? Or do you want him to have space to dribble in. Along with the player in the game not recognising a good passing option so decides to dribble instead.
I made a quick test using Spring (lower WBs) and Autumn (higher AWBs), and the results confirm what I said before. When wingbacks are more advanced, players dribble less because they have a passing option closer to them.
Two players with most dribbles per 90 minutes Autumn (AWB): 3.67 and 3.29 Spring (WB lower): 6.26 and 4.71
Autumn / Spring
Those results were with Burnley, so you should expect more dribbles with a better team.
juliius said: I've had some success. So I've straight up nabbed Maresca's formation, not that it's revolutionary. Here are the instructions.
Here are the results after 19 games in the league.
One instruction that seemed to instantly improve the dribbles per 90 numbers, was removing the progress play instruction. When i've had it on balanced it produces more dribbles per 90 than both focus flanks and focus middle did. Expand
Interesting, a fantastic output from Saka and Martinelli, did you use any PIs?
ZaZ said: Looking at the input from Julius, it might be that players dribble more when winger and wingbacks are further apart from each other. I guess the problem is that AWBs used in your tactic play too close to IFs, promoting passes instead of dribbles. I will test here a tactic with AWB vs a similar one with WB in the back to see if there is a huge difference. Expand
I've just ran a test with the AWB dropping back to FB and the dribbles per 90 increased, but not by much. I am starting to think it has something to with the IF role but I also agree, I think the AWB and CHM are getting close enough to the IF that he is choosing to pass rather than dribble
Hello everyone,
TL;DR: I am really struggling to get my wide players to dribble past opponents, with my wingers averaging only about 3 dribbles per game. Has anyone had success increasing dribble numbers, and if so, how did you achieve it?
The Tactical Goal
I am trying to replicate Anthony Gordon’s real-world movement for England—specifically how he received the ball on the flank against Costa Rica, knocked it past his opponent, drove directly at goal and either crossed from the byline or shot.
What I’ve Tried So Far:
Tactical Tweak 1: Using a modified version of CopyCat v6. I have set the team width to Wide, focused progression Down Both Flanks, and added the Dribble More instruction to both Inside Forwards (IFs). Despite this, they consistently look to pass rather than take on their marker.
Tactical Tweak 2: In a previous save, I applied the Hug Line trait alongside Knocks Ball Past Opponent and Runs With Ball Often to Kylian Mbappé. He still only averaged 3.14 dribbles per 90 mins over the season. I even signed Kaoru Mitoma (who had the best dribbles per 90 in the Premier League), but his numbers dropped immediately in my system.
Personnel: In my current PSV save,My IFs have good Dribbling, Agility, Acceleration, and Pace but are averaging just over 3 dribbles per 90 mins
Other Experiments: I have tried various shapes and different wide roles, but nothing seems to unlock consistent dribbling.
If anyone has figured out the right combination of instructions, roles, or traits to get wide players driving at their man in the current match engine, I would really appreciate your advice!
CBP87 said: Hello everyone,
TL;DR: I am really struggling to get my wide players to dribble past opponents, with my wingers averaging only about 3 dribbles per game. Has anyone had success increasing dribble numbers, and if so, how did you achieve it?
The Tactical Goal
I am trying to replicate Anthony Gordon’s real-world movement for England—specifically how he received the ball on the flank against Costa Rica, knocked it past his opponent, drove directly at goal and either crossed from the byline or shot.
What I’ve Tried So Far:
Tactical Tweak 1: Using a modified version of CopyCat v6. I have set the team width to Wide, focused progression Down Both Flanks, and added the Dribble More instruction to both Inside Forwards (IFs). Despite this, they consistently look to pass rather than take on their marker.
Tactical Tweak 2: In a previous save, I applied the Hug Line trait alongside Knocks Ball Past Opponent and Runs With Ball Often to Kylian Mbappé. He still only averaged 3.14 dribbles per 90 mins over the season. I even signed Kaoru Mitoma (who had the best dribbles per 90 in the Premier League), but his numbers dropped immediately in my system.
Personnel: In my current PSV save,My IFs have good Dribbling, Agility, Acceleration, and Pace but are averaging just over 3 dribbles per 90 mins
Other Experiments: I have tried various shapes and different wide roles, but nothing seems to unlock consistent dribbling.
If anyone has figured out the right combination of instructions, roles, or traits to get wide players driving at their man in the current match engine, I would really appreciate your advice!
If you are using a more direct passing system, it is only natural that they will often pass far ahead instead of trying to dribble.
ZaZ said: If you are using a more direct passing system, it is only natural that they will often pass far ahead instead of trying to dribble.
That is an excellent point. Yes I am playing more direct. I will try it with shorter passing. Thanks
Unfortunately @ZaZ reducing the passing directness didn't work. I even slowed the tempo down and the results were getting worse. Just an FYI...I'm trying these changes on my test save with City and I'm inputting Doku on the left and Foden on the right. I ran multiple tests using shorter passing but altering different instructions like tempo and width and unfortunately the dribbles per 90 dropped at one point for Foden to 1.93
CBP87 said: Unfortunately @ZaZ reducing the passing directness didn't work. I even slowed the tempo down and the results were getting worse. Just an FYI...I'm trying these changes on my test save with City and I'm inputting Doku on the left and Foden on the right. I ran multiple tests using shorter passing but altering different instructions like tempo and width and unfortunately the dribbles per 90 dropped at one point for Foden to 1.93
Maybe using instructions like Run Wide With the Ball can help, and letting them Stay Wider.
When making decisions, each player will look to their radius of action and calculate the expected success with each of their possible actions. The radius of action can change depending on their vision, passing directness and take risks instructions, which also influences what is an acceptable success rate for passing. If they believe dribbling is more desirable than passing, they will dribble instead.
What I think is happening is that your wingbacks always have good options nearby or ahead, so they prefer to pass than to risk a dribble. Getting them away from other players, closer to the side line, might increase their odds of dribbling, but that is just theory.
ZaZ said: Maybe using instructions like Run Wide With the Ball can help, and letting them Stay Wider.
When making decisions, each player will look to their radius of action and calculate the expected success with each of their possible actions. The radius of action can change depending on their vision, passing directness and take risks instructions, which also influences what is an acceptable success rate for passing. If they believe dribbling is more desirable than passing, they will dribble instead.
What I think is happening is that your wingbacks always have good options nearby or ahead, so they prefer to pass than to risk a dribble. Getting them away from other players, closer to the side line, might increase their odds of dribbling, but that is just theory.
To be honest, I was on a similar thought process, I have tried to isolate the wide players as much as possibly, I even as a test brought in Mitoma and Pedro Neto as they had the highest dribbles per 90 but again the results show the dribbles per 90 dropped dramatically. I experimented with different roles and roles of other positions to see if that helps, I have set the width to as wide as possible, focused play down the wings. Nothing I am doing seems to be able to get me past 4.00 dribbles per 90. I have added different traits. I have even amended the attributes to 20 which I believe are needed for a good dribbler but still no joy.
So i've done a little experimenting trying to get more dribbles per 90. Here's the tactic nothing special.
First of all i tried to have my players as the role wingers to emphasize the wide positioning.
Below are the player instructions.
The idea is keep them wide. Make fewer runs because i want the ball in feet so they can make their dribbles, and fewer risks because i want them to focus on attempting dribbles not passes. Byline to try and get that knock past and just run towards the byline. Also played left footed on the left and right footed on the right to encourage the down the line dribbles.
Another thing to keep in mind is, most tactics i see have underlaps on both sides, i've found underlaps again encourages the wide player to pass, which is what i didn't want, so i've on purpose not had that instruction on.
Here's the numbers through 10 games:
Madueke plays on the left and Martinelli on the right. Nwaneri has been subbed on for Madueke.
Here's an example of what i at least think it is you wanted to happen.
I replied on the SI forum aswell, there's a GIF of what i assume you are looking for.
juliius said: So i've done a little experimenting trying to get more dribbles per 90. Here's the tactic nothing special.
First of all i tried to have my players as the role wingers to emphasize the wide positioning.
Below are the player instructions.
The idea is keep them wide. Make fewer runs because i want the ball in feet so they can make their dribbles, and fewer risks because i want them to focus on attempting dribbles not passes. Byline to try and get that knock past and just run towards the byline. Also played left footed on the left and right footed on the right to encourage the down the line dribbles.
Another thing to keep in mind is, most tactics i see have underlaps on both sides, i've found underlaps again encourages the wide player to pass, which is what i didn't want, so i've on purpose not had that instruction on.
Here's the numbers through 10 games:
Madueke plays on the left and Martinelli on the right. Nwaneri has been subbed on for Madueke.
Here's an example of what i at least think it is you wanted to happen.
I replied on the SI forum aswell, there's a GIF of what i assume you are looking for.
Good work and thank you for your input, I'll give that a whirl and see how it gets on
I added the pass into feet midway through the season as the only change from earlier. The numbers got closer to 7 dribbles per 90.
juliius said: I added the pass into feet midway through the season as the only change from earlier. The numbers got closer to 7 dribbles per 90.
I've added that but unfortunately it didn't help when testing. Although its a improvement what you've got, I am still seeing players averaging over 10 dribbles per game. I've watched full games and I literally for the life of me figure out what Mitoma is doing different to Doku. Both are hugging the line, both are pretty much isolated, but Doku passes and Mitoma runs
CBP87 said: I've added that but unfortunately it didn't help when testing. Although its a improvement what you've got, I am still seeing players averaging over 10 dribbles per game. I've watched full games and I literally for the life of me figure out what Mitoma is doing different to Doku. Both are hugging the line, both are pretty much isolated, but Doku passes and Mitoma runs
I know we can see the roles the AI manager uses, is there a way to see instructions somehow? The only thing i can think of is the ingame commentary where you might be able to decipher some instructions.
At least from the season i've run here, every single player in the premier league that finished with a higher dribbles/90 than Martinelli and Madueke were playing as a winger.
juliius said: I know we can see the roles the AI manager uses, is there a way to see instructions somehow? The only thing i can think of is the ingame commentary where you might be able to decipher some instructions.
At least from the season i've run here, every single player in the premier league that finished with a higher dribbles/90 than Martinelli and Madueke were playing as a winger.
I've tried with winger too, sorry I don't want it to come across that I am dismissing what you saying because I genuinely am not. I looked at Brighton and Chelsea's formation and they play a 4231, Mitoma playing on the left as a winger and Neto on the right as a winger, both of them playing on the side of their weakest foot and both have pretty poor weak foots. On watching them though, they weren't cutting inside at all which you would probably expect due to them being on the wrong foot side
CBP87 said: I've tried with winger too, sorry I don't want it to come across that I am dismissing what you saying because I genuinely am not. I looked at Brighton and Chelsea's formation and they play a 4231, Mitoma playing on the left as a winger and Neto on the right as a winger, both of them playing on the side of their weakest foot and both have pretty poor weak foots. On watching them though, they weren't cutting inside at all which you would probably expect due to them being on the wrong foot side
Doesn't sound unreasonable to me that they don't cut inside when they play as wingers, even with the opposite foot side. Also not dismissing me at all, seems like you see the same as i do with wingers.
CBP87 said: I've tried with winger too, sorry I don't want it to come across that I am dismissing what you saying because I genuinely am not. I looked at Brighton and Chelsea's formation and they play a 4231, Mitoma playing on the left as a winger and Neto on the right as a winger, both of them playing on the side of their weakest foot and both have pretty poor weak foots. On watching them though, they weren't cutting inside at all which you would probably expect due to them being on the wrong foot side
I've had some success. So I've straight up nabbed Maresca's formation, not that it's revolutionary.
Here are the instructions.
Here are the results after 19 games in the league.
One instruction that seemed to instantly improve the dribbles per 90 numbers, was removing the progress play instruction. When i've had it on balanced it produces more dribbles per 90 than both focus flanks and focus middle did.
Looking at the input from Julius, it might be that players dribble more when winger and wingbacks are further apart from each other. I guess the problem is that AWBs used in your tactic play too close to IFs, promoting passes instead of dribbles. I will test here a tactic with AWB vs a similar one with WB in the back to see if there is a huge difference.
ZaZ said: Looking at the input from Julius, it might be that players dribble more when winger and wingbacks are further apart from each other. I guess the problem is that AWBs used in your tactic play too close to IFs, promoting passes instead of dribbles. I will test here a tactic with AWB vs a similar one with WB in the back to see if there is a huge difference.
Make sense in my head aswell. In terms of getting more from a good dribbler. If you have a good dribbler do you want more players close congesting his space? Or do you want him to have space to dribble in. Along with the player in the game not recognising a good passing option so decides to dribble instead.
I made a quick test using Spring (lower WBs) and Autumn (higher AWBs), and the results confirm what I said before. When wingbacks are more advanced, players dribble less because they have a passing option closer to them.
Two players with most dribbles per 90 minutes
Autumn (AWB): 3.67 and 3.29
Spring (WB lower): 6.26 and 4.71
Autumn / Spring
Those results were with Burnley, so you should expect more dribbles with a better team.
juliius said: I've had some success. So I've straight up nabbed Maresca's formation, not that it's revolutionary.
Here are the instructions.
Here are the results after 19 games in the league.
One instruction that seemed to instantly improve the dribbles per 90 numbers, was removing the progress play instruction. When i've had it on balanced it produces more dribbles per 90 than both focus flanks and focus middle did.
Interesting, a fantastic output from Saka and Martinelli, did you use any PIs?
ZaZ said: Looking at the input from Julius, it might be that players dribble more when winger and wingbacks are further apart from each other. I guess the problem is that AWBs used in your tactic play too close to IFs, promoting passes instead of dribbles. I will test here a tactic with AWB vs a similar one with WB in the back to see if there is a huge difference.
I've just ran a test with the AWB dropping back to FB and the dribbles per 90 increased, but not by much. I am starting to think it has something to with the IF role but I also agree, I think the AWB and CHM are getting close enough to the IF that he is choosing to pass rather than dribble
CBP87 said: Interesting, a fantastic output from Saka and Martinelli, did you use any PIs?
The same that i showed earlier
juliius said: The same that i showed earlier
Thanks pal, appreciate the advice and the effort, I'll give it a whirl