yeah roles testing league would be greate... i found that even in the best tactics all roles in DR/DL positions having low ratings :/ CD's kinda same... so all tactis based on outscoring opponents instedad of keeping clean sheets or very good defensive record :/
I don't think there is a tier system as such and as obvious as this may sound, I think roles are impacted by the style you play, playing a DLF in a gegenpress isn't going to be as effective as playing a pressing forward.
But it is a good point, I often use the presets to understand which roles suit each style
CBP87 said: I don't think there is a tier system as such and as obvious as this may sound, I think roles are impacted by the style you play, playing a DLF in a gegenpress isn't going to be as effective as playing a pressing forward.
But it is a good point, I often use the presets to understand which roles suit each style Expand
I guess style of play in FM most times seems just cosmetic, Im sry saying this. If I want a good gegenpressing tactic I would neither play DLF or PF but AF
crizeKOS said: I guess style of play in FM is just cosmetic, Im sry saying this. If I want a good gegenpressing tactic I would neither play DLF or PF but AF Expand
Yep sorry thats my point, if you comparing a DLF to a AF in a gegenpress tactic then the AF will be far superior in that role, where as the DLF will probably be better in a possession based tactic
CBP87 said: I don't think there is a tier system as such and as obvious as this may sound, I think roles are impacted by the style you play, playing a DLF in a gegenpress isn't going to be as effective as playing a pressing forward.
But it is a good point, I often use the presets to understand which roles suit each style Expand
I agree with this. Different roles combine with different tactics...differently. I'm sure you could make a tactic where a Target Man is most successful in the middle, and changing it to any other role including AF, gives worse result.
On the other hand, overall a tactic is usually better with AF than other roles, but this is not really possible to test. Its also why I think you have to take the "tactical instruction testing" with a pinch of salt. If an entirely different tactical shape was used for the base, the results would be entirely different for many instructions. Overall, its still a nice indicator
I agree with u guys, but for me even in a possession based tatic shadow striker and af would bring more coz their values are so high into the game atm. Same for other roles like CWB, WB, IWB, etc. There are some stuff here that ppl take for granted alrdy, coz they were punished several times for test other stuff. U can vary the style ok, but u can only do it in a proper range of top tier roles. Even gegenpressing for instance, most ppl are talking how nerfed in this match engine it gots.
So u guys thinks this is possible? coz clearly some roles are uselezz and cleary we are very limited in terms of range of choose for them.
Same for tactics/Team instructions. If we think as a community here we can help each other and help the testers to get some rest 🤣🤣 Cheers Expand
Yes and no,you are right but main problem is the way you conduct a test,to test how a role "impact" to a tactic it should be test on EBFM way(i don't know if i can use external link) but that that mean it require tons of time/hours etc to understand it and even need a statistical knowledge... What we really need is a tool,that can let us to understand if we are on the right binary or not. I am pretty sure that Arena-Test at the very moment is the most efficient,even tho people believe that is just for "Elite team" that's not even near to the truth,i can say that because the Islam champ was tested on other sites(don't know why or how)and it basically did good on every of them, from 160CA and 140CA teams.
My point is can we with the collaboration of @Zippo or arena staff(i don't really know how the things are organizzated,but Zippo seem the Frontman that's why i am quoting him) create something for test those things,i mean for me even if "the league file of the league is shared", means nothing if is not test trough FM-Arena's machine,but it can help people trough their test,because i am the first i am trying to find the maximum power of some roles/setup overloading the machine.
Even the old Test could be really fine,if you believe is attendible.
I even tried to replicate the test-league,but there is something out-tuned or some script that i can't really know about,i just started to use the editor i can even share the varius leagues i've done, but if i test something there and it's giving good results and once i test here is giving others is just making more confusion in my head then anything else.
Fast example, if i am getting 70 on Islam on my test league and i find a tactic/setup with the same amount of games,giving more and once i test here is giving me -3 of Islam we can understand pretty easy that something is wrong on my test league.
It might be really confusonary but those are my thoughts about it.
P.S.
I am not whining or stuff like that,i do even understand that we want to keep the "competitive aspect", just trying to find a light to make all of those datas more comprensible.
Just to give you an example :
That what i was doing before,those are just test for 640; very simple,if they do better on 640 i run more x2 more x2 till i go to 10 runs. But if all of that is meaningless is just a waste of time..
And if we can't rely on vacation (since is stated that is full rng)
Imma try to build something else,that we can use to be more attendible.
In my opinion I think that this classification of positions will limit the evolution of tactical systems and ideas. Therefore, everyone will use the same functions for the positions.
One thing that would be interesting is to put the average possession value on the tested tactics table.
I think may things can be discussed and be tangible. As we seeing frequently on the tests tactics with the RPM underpeforming alongside two BPDs while tactics with the DM (D) doing better. But there is one tactic on the table that made RPM perform and it was alongisde two regular CDs. So, we have to consider some interactions tiers too.
p.s I know football game and FM are way too complex but we need to start to find some patterns and share among ourselfs. Something being apparently chaotic doenst mean that is a random stuff may It is our ability to see the patterns that are limiting us.
In my opinion I think that this classification of positions will limit the evolution of tactical systems and ideas. Therefore, everyone will use the same functions for the positions.
One thing that would be interesting is to put the average possession value on the tested tactics table. Expand
Ppl alrdy doing this. Guys were tweaking Corsair and West Hammer for more than a month. Now is happening with the Wide Diamond formation.
crizeKOS said: Ppl alrdy doing this. Guys were tweaking Corsair and West Hammer for more than a month. Now is happening with the Wide Diamond formation. Expand
yes I understand. But a wide diamond formation with W or IW is completely different. That is, it is the same formation but the principles and the system are different.
crizeKOS said: I think may things can be discussed and be tangible. As we seeing frequently on the tests tactics with the RPM underpeforming alongside two BPDs while tactics with the DM (D) doing better. But there is one tactic on the table that made RPM perform and it was alongisde two regular CDs. So, we have to consider some interactions tiers too.
p.s I know football game and FM are way too complex but we need to start to find some patterns and share among ourselfs. Something being apparently chaotic doenst mean that is a random stuff may It is our ability to see the patterns that are limiting us. Expand
good observation, conclusions like these can be very good to help the FM community
I have read what you have written and I think this year things have changed a bit with the game's match engine. Besides the bugs in the defensive approach, this year they have split the defensive formation directive into 4+2 different pieces:
Trap Inside / Trap Outside Stop Crosses / Invite Crosses + Step Up More / Drop Off More
They have changed the way the mentality of the tactics work and have tweaked various roles within the game.
So with what we know officially, I'm coming to the conclusion that this year it's more about pairing the roles together and with some team instructions that might work better to give tactics a boost.
crizeKOS said: I think may things can be discussed and be tangible. As we seeing frequently on the tests tactics with the RPM underpeforming alongside two BPDs while tactics with the DM (D) doing better. But there is one tactic on the table that made RPM perform and it was alongisde two regular CDs. So, we have to consider some interactions tiers too. Expand This has been logically explained. Now BPDs with the "Dribble More" instruction (and maybe without) go higher on the pitch, with the ball at their feet and thus overtake RPM (This also applies to IWBs) - which means he stays out of the build up to the game. Whereas DM is a more defensive player who will play more simply.
And with the opposite is that CDs are not involved in building the game from behind and so they pass to the more creative players in front of them.
I have read what you have written and I think this year things have changed a bit with the game's match engine. Besides the bugs in the defensive approach, this year they have split the defensive formation directive into 4+2 different pieces:
Trap Inside / Trap Outside Stop Crosses / Invite Crosses + Step Up More / Drop Off More
They have changed the way the mentality of the tactics work and have tweaked various roles within the game.
So with what we know officially, I'm coming to the conclusion that this year it's more about pairing the roles together and with some team instructions that might work better to give tactics a boost.
This has been logically explained. Now BPDs with the "Dribble More" instruction (and maybe without) go higher on the pitch, with the ball at their feet and thus overtake RPM (This also applies to IWBs) - which means he stays out of the build up to the game. Whereas DM is a more defensive player who will play more simply.
And with the opposite is that CDs are not involved in building the game from behind and so they pass to the more creative players in front of them. Expand
Then @senna built this, DLP has passing shorter as PI.
This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here...
crizeKOS said: This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here... Expand
@opq produced a good one, why the hell arent we tweak his tactic?
crizeKOS said: This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here... Expand
crizeKOS said: This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here... Expand
I'm working in this kind of play and i get some good results on my testings. I hope in FM Arena Test League too.
This seems good. A good tip that make senses is that if you choose in DM position a creative player its better to look on pass completion rate and key passes instead of assists. This is actually his task in the game if he is involved in the build up.
ZaZ said: I agree that some roles are weaker than others overall, but making that into a list without enough data will cause more damage than good. Expand
Yeah, but we have 350+ tactic on the table and everyone is playing with AF instead a Target Man and I dont see it changing. The damage is alrdy there.
crizeKOS said: @opq produced a good one, why the hell arent we tweak his tactic? Expand
just do it already, as I'm getting cancer thinking, that I've found decent tweak and it's not xD anyway, I'm enjoying to play with v2 at my 2 saves, but would be nice if someone could bring 3atb to the next step
Delicious said: Fast example, if i am getting 70 on Islam on my test league and i find a tactic/setup with the same amount of games,giving more and once i test here is giving me -3 of Islam we can understand pretty easy that something is wrong on my test league. Expand
Guys, if you want to know my opinion then I think you're too obsessed with getting micro improvements.
This year the FM developers have made sure that there aren't any set pieces exploits or any other tactical exploits ( like strikerless tactics and so on ) in the game. Also, they have greatly improved the AI tactics so when it comes to the tactics then a human player don't have any significant advantage over the AI.
This year the FM developers clearly say to us if you want to dominate in the game then stop looking for tactical exploits and just try to get the best players in the game (especially, those players who have crazy gamebreaking attributes ) and you'll be golden.
If your tactic gets at least 46 point in our testing then you already can stop improving it because it's already good enough to dominate the game.
You can spend months on improving your tactic to get 1-2 points better result in our testing or you can just get better players and improve your result by 40 points.
crizeKOS said: Yeah, but we have 350+ tactic on the table and everyone is playing with AF instead a Target Man and I dont see it changing. The damage is alrdy there. Expand
AF is go to for most formations and he won't make a tactic worse, it's that simple PF or DLF need very certain conditions to outperform AF and don't forget of possible changes in ME with patches
like, do I want such position of 1 of my 3 strikers at counter? the answer is YES but most people would prefer Firmino to be way more further
Zippo said: Guys, if you want to know my opinion then I think you're too obsessed with getting micro improvements.
This year the FM developers have made sure that there aren't any set pieces exploits or any other tactical exploits ( like strikerless tactics and so on ) in the game. Also, they have greatly improved the AI tactics so when it comes to the tactics then a human player don't have any significant advantage over the AI.
This year the FM developers clearly say to us if you want to dominate in the game then stop looking for tactical exploits and just try to get the best players in the game (especially, those players who have crazy gamebreaking attributes ) and you'll be golden.
If your tactic gets at least 46 point in our testing then you already can stop improving because it's good enough to dominate the game.
You can spend months on improving your tactic to get 1-2 points better result in our testing or you can just get better players and improve your result by 40 points.
I really advise you to think about because this year FM is much more about having better players than having a better tactic. Expand
So, I can just load any tactical style choose my formation and focus on the players scouting? That's it? Well, guess FM became and aesthetical bunch of cosmetic stuff then, unfortunelly.
what do you think about putting possession in the table of tested tactics? To make it easier to identify the style of play of each tactic, that is, if it is counter attack or possession etc..
what do you think about putting possession in the table of tested tactics? To make it easier to identify the style of play of each tactic, that is, if it is counter attack or possession etc.. Expand
We'd like to but unfortunately, we can't extract the possession number from the game.
But from my experience the most possession orient tactics in FM as usual gets a very low score in the testing, somewhere around 30-35 points.
Zippo said: Guys, if you want to know my opinion then I think you're too obsessed with getting micro improvements.
This year the FM developers have made sure that there aren't any set pieces exploits or any other tactical exploits ( like strikerless tactics and so on ) in the game. Also, they have greatly improved the AI tactics so when it comes to the tactics then a human player don't have any significant advantage over the AI.
This year the FM developers clearly say to us if you want to dominate in the game then stop looking for tactical exploits and just try to get the best players in the game (especially, those players who have crazy gamebreaking attributes ) and you'll be golden.
If your tactic gets at least 46 point in our testing then you already can stop improving it because it's already good enough to dominate the game.
You can spend months on improving your tactic to get 1-2 points better result in our testing or you can just get better players and improve your result by 40 points.
I really advise you to think about it because this year FM is much more about having better players than having a better tactic. Expand
Yes and no, but i guess the point is that,at least for who test tactics is all around it, i do enjoy more assembling pieces then play the game it self,it's not just about 1-2 points or the time,it's even to find if there are any others roles that can impact on some kind of system. I personally just miss the tool to do that.. Imho if something could be provided even something older but "attendible" would be great in order to make test and stuff.
It could create "meta" builds and maybe we could achieve something more then a "gegen-press". Main point is if you don't get "high" score(means first),people won't even check those tactics and maybe we missing even a golden tactic that could be easy fixed because of it.
At least if people just like to enjoy when tactics are "ready" and do their tweaks,the poor "baka" that spend 300 hours in order to achieve it will feel less "baka".
I do understand your point of view,but i do believe that creating content = tactics is the most valuable thing around this game,it just miss a real leader, at the moment it feels like everything is under totaly "secret",even for create a simple league there are not even that much guides, immagine in order to make a league that could give "fast loading" it required me 10 days xD, but if i can't tune it to this league it's just useless.
So, there is any tier here about the game roles? For example:
ST position:
- Advanced forward (tier 1)
- DLF (tier 2)
...
- Traquartista (tier 10)
So u guys thinks this is possible? coz clearly some roles are uselezz and cleary we are very limited in terms of range of choose for them.
Same for tactics/Team instructions.
If we think as a community here we can help each other and help the testers to get some rest 🤣🤣
Cheers
yeah roles testing league would be greate... i found that even in the best tactics all roles in DR/DL positions having low ratings :/ CD's kinda same... so all tactis based on outscoring opponents instedad of keeping clean sheets or very good defensive record :/
I don't think there is a tier system as such and as obvious as this may sound, I think roles are impacted by the style you play, playing a DLF in a gegenpress isn't going to be as effective as playing a pressing forward.
But it is a good point, I often use the presets to understand which roles suit each style
CBP87 said: I don't think there is a tier system as such and as obvious as this may sound, I think roles are impacted by the style you play, playing a DLF in a gegenpress isn't going to be as effective as playing a pressing forward.
But it is a good point, I often use the presets to understand which roles suit each style
I guess style of play in FM most times seems just cosmetic, Im sry saying this. If I want a good gegenpressing tactic I would neither play DLF or PF but AF
crizeKOS said: I guess style of play in FM is just cosmetic, Im sry saying this. If I want a good gegenpressing tactic I would neither play DLF or PF but AF
Yep sorry thats my point, if you comparing a DLF to a AF in a gegenpress tactic then the AF will be far superior in that role, where as the DLF will probably be better in a possession based tactic
CBP87 said: I don't think there is a tier system as such and as obvious as this may sound, I think roles are impacted by the style you play, playing a DLF in a gegenpress isn't going to be as effective as playing a pressing forward.
But it is a good point, I often use the presets to understand which roles suit each style
I agree with this. Different roles combine with different tactics...differently. I'm sure you could make a tactic where a Target Man is most successful in the middle, and changing it to any other role including AF, gives worse result.
On the other hand, overall a tactic is usually better with AF than other roles, but this is not really possible to test. Its also why I think you have to take the "tactical instruction testing" with a pinch of salt. If an entirely different tactical shape was used for the base, the results would be entirely different for many instructions. Overall, its still a nice indicator
I agree with u guys, but for me even in a possession based tatic shadow striker and af would bring more coz their values are so high into the game atm. Same for other roles like CWB, WB, IWB, etc.
There are some stuff here that ppl take for granted alrdy, coz they were punished several times for test other stuff. U can vary the style ok, but u can only do it in a proper range of top tier roles. Even gegenpressing for instance, most ppl are talking how nerfed in this match engine it gots.
So lets do this:
When u have only 1 DM pivot like on the 442 wide diamond or the 4141:
Tier 1: DM (D); DLP (D)
Tier 2: RPM (S); DLP (S)
Tier 3: HB, BWM (D), Anchor
Do u guys agree on this? What else? Any suggestion in other platforms?
@Chocorelo19 @MemorizableUsername @Delicious @senna @ntr master @WALTON1981 @super korean @Lsully95 @ZaZ @MakeSuRE
crizeKOS said: So, there is any tier here about the game roles? For example:
ST position:
- Advanced forward (tier 1)
- DLF (tier 2)
...
- Traquartista (tier 10)
So u guys thinks this is possible? coz clearly some roles are uselezz and cleary we are very limited in terms of range of choose for them.
Same for tactics/Team instructions.
If we think as a community here we can help each other and help the testers to get some rest 🤣🤣
Cheers
Yes and no,you are right but main problem is the way you conduct a test,to test how a role "impact" to a tactic it should be test on EBFM way(i don't know if i can use external link) but that that mean it require tons of time/hours etc to understand it and even need a statistical knowledge...
What we really need is a tool,that can let us to understand if we are on the right binary or not.
I am pretty sure that Arena-Test at the very moment is the most efficient,even tho people believe that is just for "Elite team" that's not even near to the truth,i can say that because the Islam champ was tested on other sites(don't know why or how)and it basically did good on every of them, from 160CA and 140CA teams.
My point is can we with the collaboration of @Zippo or arena staff(i don't really know how the things are organizzated,but Zippo seem the Frontman that's why i am quoting him) create something for test those things,i mean for me even if "the league file of the league is shared", means nothing if is not test trough FM-Arena's machine,but it can help people trough their test,because i am the first i am trying to find the maximum power of some roles/setup overloading the machine.
Even the old Test could be really fine,if you believe is attendible.
I even tried to replicate the test-league,but there is something out-tuned or some script that i can't really know about,i just started to use the editor i can even share the varius leagues i've done, but if i test something there and it's giving good results and once i test here is giving others is just making more confusion in my head then anything else.
Fast example, if i am getting 70 on Islam on my test league and i find a tactic/setup with the same amount of games,giving more and once i test here is giving me -3 of Islam we can understand pretty easy that something is wrong on my test league.
@crizeKOS i am pretty sure Arena is automated.
It might be really confusonary but those are my thoughts about it.
P.S.
I am not whining or stuff like that,i do even understand that we want to keep the "competitive aspect", just trying to find a light to make all of those datas more comprensible.
Just to give you an example :
That what i was doing before,those are just test for 640; very simple,if they do better on 640 i run more x2 more x2 till i go to 10 runs. But if all of that is meaningless is just a waste of time..
And if we can't rely on vacation (since is stated that is full rng)
Imma try to build something else,that we can use to be more attendible.
crizeKOS said: So lets do this:
When u have only 1 DM pivot like on the 442 wide diamond or the 4141:
Tier 1: DM (D); DLP (D)
Tier 2: RPM (S); DLP (S)
Tier 3: HB, BWM (D), Anchor
Do u guys agree on this? What else? Any suggestion in other platforms?
@Chocorelo19 @MemorizableUsername @Delicious @senna @ntr master @WALTON1981 @super korean @Lsully95 @ZaZ @MakeSuRE
Hello all!
In my opinion I think that this classification of positions will limit the evolution of tactical systems and ideas. Therefore, everyone will use the same functions for the positions.
One thing that would be interesting is to put the average possession value on the tested tactics table.
I think may things can be discussed and be tangible. As we seeing frequently on the tests tactics with the RPM underpeforming alongside two BPDs while tactics with the DM (D) doing better. But there is one tactic on the table that made RPM perform and it was alongisde two regular CDs. So, we have to consider some interactions tiers too.
p.s I know football game and FM are way too complex but we need to start to find some patterns and share among ourselfs. Something being apparently chaotic doenst mean that is a random stuff may It is our ability to see the patterns that are limiting us.
senna said: Hello all!
In my opinion I think that this classification of positions will limit the evolution of tactical systems and ideas. Therefore, everyone will use the same functions for the positions.
One thing that would be interesting is to put the average possession value on the tested tactics table.
Ppl alrdy doing this. Guys were tweaking Corsair and West Hammer for more than a month. Now is happening with the Wide Diamond formation.
crizeKOS said: Ppl alrdy doing this. Guys were tweaking Corsair and West Hammer for more than a month. Now is happening with the Wide Diamond formation.
yes I understand.
But a wide diamond formation with W or IW is completely different. That is, it is the same formation but the principles and the system are different.
crizeKOS said: I think may things can be discussed and be tangible. As we seeing frequently on the tests tactics with the RPM underpeforming alongside two BPDs while tactics with the DM (D) doing better. But there is one tactic on the table that made RPM perform and it was alongisde two regular CDs. So, we have to consider some interactions tiers too.
p.s I know football game and FM are way too complex but we need to start to find some patterns and share among ourselfs. Something being apparently chaotic doenst mean that is a random stuff may It is our ability to see the patterns that are limiting us.
good observation, conclusions like these can be very good to help the FM community
Hello everyone,
I have read what you have written and I think this year things have changed a bit with the game's match engine. Besides the bugs in the defensive approach, this year they have split the defensive formation directive into 4+2 different pieces:
Trap Inside / Trap Outside
Stop Crosses / Invite Crosses
+ Step Up More / Drop Off More
They have changed the way the mentality of the tactics work and have tweaked various roles within the game.
So with what we know officially, I'm coming to the conclusion that this year it's more about pairing the roles together and with some team instructions that might work better to give tactics a boost.
crizeKOS said: I think may things can be discussed and be tangible. As we seeing frequently on the tests tactics with the RPM underpeforming alongside two BPDs while tactics with the DM (D) doing better. But there is one tactic on the table that made RPM perform and it was alongisde two regular CDs. So, we have to consider some interactions tiers too.
This has been logically explained. Now BPDs with the "Dribble More" instruction (and maybe without) go higher on the pitch, with the ball at their feet and thus overtake RPM (This also applies to IWBs) - which means he stays out of the build up to the game. Whereas DM is a more defensive player who will play more simply.
And with the opposite is that CDs are not involved in building the game from behind and so they pass to the more creative players in front of them.
dzek said: Hello everyone,
I have read what you have written and I think this year things have changed a bit with the game's match engine. Besides the bugs in the defensive approach, this year they have split the defensive formation directive into 4+2 different pieces:
Trap Inside / Trap Outside
Stop Crosses / Invite Crosses
+ Step Up More / Drop Off More
They have changed the way the mentality of the tactics work and have tweaked various roles within the game.
So with what we know officially, I'm coming to the conclusion that this year it's more about pairing the roles together and with some team instructions that might work better to give tactics a boost.
This has been logically explained. Now BPDs with the "Dribble More" instruction (and maybe without) go higher on the pitch, with the ball at their feet and thus overtake RPM (This also applies to IWBs) - which means he stays out of the build up to the game. Whereas DM is a more defensive player who will play more simply.
And with the opposite is that CDs are not involved in building the game from behind and so they pass to the more creative players in front of them.
Then @senna built this, DLP has passing shorter as PI.
This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here...
crizeKOS said: This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here...
@opq produced a good one, why the hell arent we tweak his tactic?
crizeKOS said: This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here...
Back3
I'm working on it. but it's not easy
crizeKOS said: This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here...
I'm working in this kind of play and i get some good results on my testings. I hope in FM Arena Test League too.
I agree that some roles are weaker than others overall, but making that into a list without enough data will cause more damage than good.
crizeKOS said: Then @senna built this, DLP has passing shorter as PI.
This seems good. A good tip that make senses is that if you choose in DM position a creative player its better to look on pass completion rate and key passes instead of assists. This is actually his task in the game if he is involved in the build up.
ZaZ said: I agree that some roles are weaker than others overall, but making that into a list without enough data will cause more damage than good.
Yeah, but we have 350+ tactic on the table and everyone is playing with AF instead a Target Man and I dont see it changing. The damage is alrdy there.
crizeKOS said: @opq produced a good one, why the hell arent we tweak his tactic?
just do it already, as I'm getting cancer thinking, that I've found decent tweak and it's not xD
anyway, I'm enjoying to play with v2 at my 2 saves, but would be nice if someone could bring 3atb to the next step
Delicious said: Fast example, if i am getting 70 on Islam on my test league and i find a tactic/setup with the same amount of games,giving more and once i test here is giving me -3 of Islam we can understand pretty easy that something is wrong on my test league.
Guys, if you want to know my opinion then I think you're too obsessed with getting micro improvements.
This year the FM developers have made sure that there aren't any set pieces exploits or any other tactical exploits ( like strikerless tactics and so on ) in the game. Also, they have greatly improved the AI tactics so when it comes to the tactics then a human player don't have any significant advantage over the AI.
This year the FM developers clearly say to us if you want to dominate in the game then stop looking for tactical exploits and just try to get the best players in the game (especially, those players who have crazy gamebreaking attributes ) and you'll be golden.
If your tactic gets at least 46 point in our testing then you already can stop improving it because it's already good enough to dominate the game.
You can spend months on improving your tactic to get 1-2 points better result in our testing or you can just get better players and improve your result by 40 points.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/2980-game-changing-player-attributes/
I really advise you to think about it because this year FM is much more about having better players than having a better tactic.
crizeKOS said: Yeah, but we have 350+ tactic on the table and everyone is playing with AF instead a Target Man and I dont see it changing. The damage is alrdy there.
AF is go to for most formations and he won't make a tactic worse, it's that simple
PF or DLF need very certain conditions to outperform AF
and don't forget of possible changes in ME with patches
like, do I want such position of 1 of my 3 strikers at counter?
the answer is YES
but most people would prefer Firmino to be way more further
Zippo said: Guys, if you want to know my opinion then I think you're too obsessed with getting micro improvements.
This year the FM developers have made sure that there aren't any set pieces exploits or any other tactical exploits ( like strikerless tactics and so on ) in the game. Also, they have greatly improved the AI tactics so when it comes to the tactics then a human player don't have any significant advantage over the AI.
This year the FM developers clearly say to us if you want to dominate in the game then stop looking for tactical exploits and just try to get the best players in the game (especially, those players who have crazy gamebreaking attributes ) and you'll be golden.
If your tactic gets at least 46 point in our testing then you already can stop improving because it's good enough to dominate the game.
You can spend months on improving your tactic to get 1-2 points better result in our testing or you can just get better players and improve your result by 40 points.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/2980-game-changing-player-attributes/
I really advise you to think about because this year FM is much more about having better players than having a better tactic.
So, I can just load any tactical style choose my formation and focus on the players scouting? That's it? Well, guess FM became and aesthetical bunch of cosmetic stuff then, unfortunelly.
@Zippo
what do you think about putting possession in the table of tested tactics?
To make it easier to identify the style of play of each tactic, that is, if it is counter attack or possession etc..
senna said: @Zippo
what do you think about putting possession in the table of tested tactics?
To make it easier to identify the style of play of each tactic, that is, if it is counter attack or possession etc..
We'd like to but unfortunately, we can't extract the possession number from the game.
But from my experience the most possession orient tactics in FM as usual gets a very low score in the testing, somewhere around 30-35 points.
Zippo said: Guys, if you want to know my opinion then I think you're too obsessed with getting micro improvements.
This year the FM developers have made sure that there aren't any set pieces exploits or any other tactical exploits ( like strikerless tactics and so on ) in the game. Also, they have greatly improved the AI tactics so when it comes to the tactics then a human player don't have any significant advantage over the AI.
This year the FM developers clearly say to us if you want to dominate in the game then stop looking for tactical exploits and just try to get the best players in the game (especially, those players who have crazy gamebreaking attributes ) and you'll be golden.
If your tactic gets at least 46 point in our testing then you already can stop improving it because it's already good enough to dominate the game.
You can spend months on improving your tactic to get 1-2 points better result in our testing or you can just get better players and improve your result by 40 points.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/2980-game-changing-player-attributes/
I really advise you to think about it because this year FM is much more about having better players than having a better tactic.
Yes and no, but i guess the point is that,at least for who test tactics is all around it, i do enjoy more assembling pieces then play the game it self,it's not just about 1-2 points or the time,it's even to find if there are any others roles that can impact on some kind of system.
I personally just miss the tool to do that.. Imho if something could be provided even something older but "attendible" would be great in order to make test and stuff.
It could create "meta" builds and maybe we could achieve something more then a "gegen-press".
Main point is if you don't get "high" score(means first),people won't even check those tactics and maybe we missing even a golden tactic that could be easy fixed because of it.
At least if people just like to enjoy when tactics are "ready" and do their tweaks,the poor "baka" that spend 300 hours in order to achieve it will feel less "baka".
I do understand your point of view,but i do believe that creating content = tactics is the most valuable thing around this game,it just miss a real leader, at the moment it feels like everything is under totaly "secret",even for create a simple league there are not even that much guides, immagine in order to make a league that could give "fast loading" it required me 10 days xD, but if i can't tune it to this league it's just useless.