+5 Points to *PACE* for all positions

NandaldiaN said: thats interesting but for some people maybe its a little messy to do everything with the code, is it possible to have it in a Genie Scout rating file or something? Expand

The coding is easy enough, the hard work has been done for us.

Just adjust the attributes as you want and make sure the calculation at the end of each position is correct. All you need to do is add up all the 5's, 3's and 1's to get the calculation.

NandaldiaN said: thats interesting but for some people maybe its a little messy to do everything with the code, is it possible to have it in a Genie Scout rating file or something? Expand

Firstly save your default GS Ratings file. Then all you would need to do is put 50 against the 5* attributes, 30 against the 3* attributes and 10 against the remainder. After you have done it save your new file and look at the results. Sort by highest current rating and then go back in and adjust the weighting if the rating is too high or low for your own purposes. I would then try and balance the position weightings to get them in the same ball park, but this is a personal thing.

When you have finished adjusting save the file again. You might need to reload your ratings file when GS updates for FM changes, just to make sure you are using the ratings file you want.

keithb said: Its easy enough. Take the ones he has done on his website and add them to python.

Then for EVERY(not gk) position put pace and acceleration in the top ones which are *5.

Now for central players I also put jumping reach here and for wide players and srikers I add dribbling.

For the next set of most important attributes from the testing here I make sure from Strength and Stamina up they are all in the second group *3 and some like concentration for cb's and agility for wingers will go up to the top line as well. I also put finishing for stikers here, work rate for full backs and dm's. Maybe aggression for cb's

Then the third group *1 is for the others you want.

Then at the end there is a sum which is 1/48 for example. you simply add up each group and then put that number there. So if you have four 5* thats 20, five 3* is 15 and 5 1* is 5. Expand

thats interesting but for some people maybe its a little messy to do everything with the code, is it possible to have it in a Genie Scout rating file or something?

Kamas1 said: Can you share the code? Expand

Its easy enough. Take the ones he has done on his website and add them to python.

Then for EVERY(not gk) position put pace and acceleration in the top ones which are *5.

Now for central players I also put jumping reach here and for wide players and srikers I add dribbling.

For the next set of most important attributes from the testing here I make sure from Strength and Stamina up they are all in the second group *3 and some like concentration for cb's and agility for wingers will go up to the top line as well. I also put finishing for stikers here, work rate for full backs and dm's. Maybe aggression for cb's

Then the third group *1 is for the others you want.

Then at the end there is a sum which is 1/48 for example. you simply add up each group and then put that number there. So if you have four 5* thats 20, five 3* is 15 and 5 1* is 5.

keithb said: Im using squirrel python with your top tactic managing Truro and I gave only signed frees and got 2-3 loans a season and we won league 1 with 112 points. I have changed what he sets the code to look for based upon what I thought was better, got rid of the useless attributes and boosted jumping reach, and updated again from these tests. The other promotions were easy as well. Think the tactic and the method of finding players is too good combined. Expand

Can you share the code?

sponsorkindest said: So stupid, man here we are using ML rating, python code, excel sheet, genie scout and FMRTE to get the recruitment right but when in reality all you need a filter with Pace >= 16 Expand

Im using squirrel python with your top tactic managing Truro and I gave only signed frees and got 2-3 loans a season and we won league 1 with 112 points. I have changed what he sets the code to look for based upon what I thought was better, got rid of the useless attributes and boosted jumping reach, and updated again from these tests. The other promotions were easy as well. Think the tactic and the method of finding players is too good combined.

White Europe said: I like all this tests done on this site, all helpful threads done by this outstanding FM players, but i don't think that speed is most important for every position: CM, DM or CD can be 11/10 pace acceleration, having 14/15 other important atributes for their position and perform better than just fast players.
I think following atributes highlighted by FM can do best job. Expand

Following the attributes highlighted in game is an awful choice. Only do this if you're playing for realism. And one extra on pace and acceleration makes you a huge difference. The difference between 11 and 14 is huge

Milakus said: Because value "1" is an extreme attribute value. I don't think there's any player that has value "1" for an attribute.

If I'm not mistaken attribute values from 1 to 5 are "free" which means it doesn't cost any CA points.

So I think the minimal possible value for an attribute is "5" and not "1".

And when you set an attribute to "1" then you do a crazy thing and the result might be crazy as well. Expand

you are right, based on my observations, majority of the attribute value for most players range between 7-17, i am not saying low values are not possible but thats rare and even if it does happen, it happens on few attributes rather than a bunch of them.

twistedheat said: Edit: Tested it with increasing the 1s to 5s and the results were drastically different. Crazy. Expand

sponsorkindest said: Thanks for testing this and i agree with you conclusions right, we need a baseline value for other attributes before focusing on the important ones and you can read my thoughts in detail below Expand

Because value "1" is an extreme attribute value. I don't think there's any player that has value "1" for an attribute.

If I'm not mistaken attribute values from 1 to 5 are "free" which means it doesn't cost any CA points.

So I think the minimal possible value for an attribute is "5" and not "1".

And when you set an attribute to "1" then you do a crazy thing and the result might be crazy as well.

twistedheat said: I believe baseline stats/hidden attributes/baseline current ability must effect things as well because I thought I'd run a side experiment with Luton.
Getting rid of their whole U21 and U18 squad, leaving only the First team squad who can play all positions and have 20s in the top 8 attributes as per FM Arena testing, but 1s everywhere else. Except the goalkeepers, I left them as they were.

The results were horrendous enough to not warrant continuing with these stats.

So whilst the game quite likely is Pace/Acc Manager, I don't quite think it's "Usain Bolt & Win".

What I mean to say is, don't focus only on those stats without hitting some kind of baseline in other stats. I'll see what I need to increase the other stats to, to start getting good results.

Edit: Tested it with increasing the 1s to 5s and the results were drastically different. Crazy. Expand

Thanks for testing this and i agree with you conclusions right, we need a baseline value for other attributes before focusing on the important ones and you can read my thoughts in detail below

sponsorkindest said: Additionally, I have another suggestion @Zippo and @Droid , I don't believe that a player's performance changes linearly in correlation with attribute decreases or increases as my observation is that attributes within a range tend to have similar performance (like 11-13) and the drop off and the gain will be significant if its below 9 or above 15 respectively. 

To ensure a comprehensive analysis covering the entire spectrum of attribute values present in the game (usually ranging from 7 to 17), I propose conducting the same testing with a -5 attribute variation. This adjustment would provide better understanding of player performance across different attribute levels. This change if upvotes by enough members in the community can be easily incorporated into the existing attribute testing table. Expand

White Europe said: I like all this tests done on this site, all helpful threads done by this outstanding FM players, but i don't think that speed is most important for every position: CM, DM or CD can be 11/10 pace acceleration, having 14/15 other important atributes for their position and perform better than just fast players.
I think following atributes highlighted by FM can do best job. Expand
Look here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/5351-should-you-follow-the-highlighted-attributes-of-the-roles/

I like all this tests done on this site, all helpful threads done by this outstanding FM players, but i don't think that speed is most important for every position: CM, DM or CD can be 11/10 pace acceleration, having 14/15 other important atributes for their position and perform better than just fast players.
I think following atributes highlighted by FM can do best job.

I believe baseline stats/hidden attributes/baseline current ability must effect things as well because I thought I'd run a side experiment with Luton.
Getting rid of their whole U21 and U18 squad, leaving only the First team squad who can play all positions and have 20s in the top 8 attributes as per FM Arena testing, but 1s everywhere else. Except the goalkeepers, I left them as they were.

The results were horrendous enough to not warrant continuing with these stats.

So whilst the game quite likely is Pace/Acc Manager, I don't quite think it's "Usain Bolt & Win".

What I mean to say is, don't focus only on those stats without hitting some kind of baseline in other stats. I'll see what I need to increase the other stats to, to start getting good results.

Edit: Tested it with increasing the 1s to 5s and the results were drastically different. Crazy.

Just me, or is FM24 even more abusable than Fm23? Physicals are more busted and the tactics are already scoring higher than any FM 23 tactic ever did.

Yarema said: What do you think all of those do? They all heavily favor pace and acceleration, some of them because of these exact tests. Expand

I've compared a lot of the ratings types and they don't really favor pace and acceleration at all. Most of them are about the same as CA in terms of rating Pace/Acceleration. I have the Machine Learning ratings on hand but those ratings tend to favor work rate, dribbling, determination, passing, and downplay decisions, agility, strength, tackling, and positioning.

I'll compare the normal genie scout ratings and maybe squirrel's ratings, but I'm pretty sure they end up being similar. None of them are outrageously weighting pace.

Wigo said: unfortunatly you are wrong mate :/ after fm-arena tests i create a team for my own test and i made 2 strikers and 2 wingers... all 4 players has Finishing 1, technique 1, passing 1, off the ball 1, but has 20 acceleration, 20 pace, 20 dribbling, 20 jumping reach, 20 stamina, 20 work rate... and gues what? strikers got 35+ goals in 38 games and wingers got around 23 assists and 18+ goals Expand

lol

pixar said: I still think these evaluations may be a little meaningless.

I would like to introduce you to Quarcoo. This friend of ours is both a professional athlete and football player. It has been in the game for a few years. His pace and acceleration value in the game is 20. Except for flair, all his technical and mental attributes are almost below 6. I tried this player on FM 22 and it was very bad. He could not be effective in any tactic. The team I tried out for was a team from the lowest leagues.

By the way, Quarcoo's features: https://fminside.net/players/4-fm-24/53181785-jonathan-quarcoo
Wiki: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Jonathan_Quarcoo



In summary, I remain skeptical about these feature tests. Expand

unfortunatly you are wrong mate :/ after fm-arena tests i create a team for my own test and i made 2 strikers and 2 wingers... all 4 players has Finishing 1, technique 1, passing 1, off the ball 1, but has 20 acceleration, 20 pace, 20 dribbling, 20 jumping reach, 20 stamina, 20 work rate... and gues what? strikers got 35+ goals in 38 games and wingers got around 23 assists and 18+ goals

Due to it being an extremely important attribute, it would be nice to see some positions get the buff and some don't to see how important it is for each position. For example, do the wingers getting the buff have a higher score than just the strikers.

sponsorkindest said: So stupid, man here we are using ML rating, python code, excel sheet, genie scout and FMRTE to get the recruitment right but when in reality all you need a filter with Pace >= 16 Expand

What do you think all of those do? They all heavily favor pace and acceleration, some of them because of these exact tests.

pixar said: I still think these evaluations may be a little meaningless.

I would like to introduce you to Quarcoo. This friend of ours is both a professional athlete and football player. It has been in the game for a few years. His pace and acceleration value in the game is 20. Except for flair, all his technical and mental attributes are almost below 6. I tried this player on FM 22 and it was very bad. He could not be effective in any tactic. The team I tried out for was a team from the lowest leagues. Expand


https://fm-arena.com/thread/5351-should-you-follow-the-highlighted-attributes-of-the-roles/

https://fm-arena.com/thread/3293-what-it-takes-to-dominate-epl-with-bournemouth/

I still think these evaluations may be a little meaningless.

I would like to introduce you to Quarcoo. This friend of ours is both a professional athlete and football player. It has been in the game for a few years. His pace and acceleration value in the game is 20. Except for flair, all his technical and mental attributes are almost below 6. I tried this player on FM 22 and it was very bad. He could not be effective in any tactic. The team I tried out for was a team from the lowest leagues.

By the way, Quarcoo's features: https://fminside.net/players/4-fm-24/53181785-jonathan-quarcoo
Wiki: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Jonathan_Quarcoo



In summary, I remain skeptical about these feature tests.

sponsorkindest said: So stupid, man here we are using ML rating, python code, excel sheet, genie scout and FMRTE to get the recruitment right but when in reality all you need a filter with Pace >= 16 Expand

Same goes for tactics, 10 hours into making a tactic suited for your team, analysing players and ... better playing much higher line attacking gegenpress and you make lutton town a force in PL ...

So stupid, man here we are using ML rating, python code, excel sheet, genie scout and FMRTE to get the recruitment right but when in reality all you need a filter with Pace >= 16

Avenger22 said: Based on FM logic Usain Bolt would be best player in the world had he been a footballer ... Expand

Adama Traore wasnt far off!!!

Delicious said: If by vertical you mean height CM/" ; doesn't matter the "height" but the jumping reach. Even tho Height and JR are "linked", you won't really find short players with high jumping reach attribute. Expand


im sorry all i mean is the jumping reach attribute.did not notice that translate problem

sponsorkindest said: I don’t think the end of the season one file was shared for FM 24, by default all players in testing league had around 13 pace in FM 23, so we are looking at a team that has around 18 pace right? Expand
Not exactly. Some positions have 15 and some others 13.

I don’t think the end of the season one file was shared for FM 24, by default all players in testing league had around 13 pace in FM 23, so we are looking at a team that has around 18 pace right?

Based on FM logic Usain Bolt would be best player in the world had he been a footballer ...

hziz1 said: pace and acceleration  had a huge impact on results over the years, with a 25-30 GD improved so far. I'd like to ask if it's possible to refine the pace/acceleration test to each individual position after other attribute tests, such as adding 5 pace WITH 5 acceleration(or just 5 pace or 5 acceleration) to two IFs or BPDs or DMs or WBs or two attacking players. so that after 5 or 10 rounds of testing, we can rely on the data to tell us which position is more dependent on pace/acceleration improvement. IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE IN THE SET-PIECE SYSTEM IN FM24, I THINK IT'S  LUXURY TO ADD 5 VERTICAL TO ALL POSITIONS(when we playing the game,DM&WB'S VERTICAL seems not that important but we really need one guy to score the headers in setpiece ), SO ADDING 5 VERTICAL TO THE TOP TWO "AERIAL THREATS" IN THE TEAM MAY HAVE A SAME BIG IMPACT AS PACE AND ACCELERATION Expand

If by vertical you mean height CM/" ; doesn't matter the "height" but the jumping reach. Even tho Height and JR are "linked", you won't really find short players with high jumping reach attribute.

pace and acceleration  had a huge impact on results over the years, with a 25-30 GD improved so far. I'd like to ask if it's possible to refine the pace/acceleration test to each individual position after other attribute tests, such as adding 5 pace WITH 5 acceleration(or just 5 pace or 5 acceleration) to two IFs or BPDs or DMs or WBs or two attacking players. so that after 5 or 10 rounds of testing, we can rely on the data to tell us which position is more dependent on pace/acceleration improvement. IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE IN THE SET-PIECE SYSTEM IN FM24, I THINK IT'S  LUXURY TO ADD 5 VERTICAL TO ALL POSITIONS(when we playing the game,DM&WB'S VERTICAL seems not that important but we really need one guy to score the headers in setpiece ), SO ADDING 5 VERTICAL TO THE TOP TWO "AERIAL THREATS" IN THE TEAM MAY HAVE A SAME BIG IMPACT AS PACE AND ACCELERATION