Bogeyman said: A 20 points difference in CA is a huge difference in FM.
There's about a 20 points difference between Manchester Utd and Norwich but we all know how easy it's to win EPL with Manchester Utd and how hard it's to do that with Norwich.
Here's the CA of the default Manchester Utd team:
and here's the CA of the default Norwich team: Expand
It might be just because I consider most players with ability close to 150 as world class players, and since his team is mostly on that range, I think he might be able to win the league. However, it's like you said, it's still the difference between a top team from Premier League and a bottom team, so the normal should be not winning.
Given the training video how much stock do you put into match practice. It seems that if you schedule a friendly cancel it, it will leave another match practice in place so this might be useful for international breaks and youth if you manage that part. You do have to add other sessions back so it might be a bit annoying for some people.
In fact I just tested again and it allows you to add as many match practice as you want, although this is fm21 so if someone could test 22.
ZaZ said: It might be just because I consider most players with ability close to 150 as world class players, and since his team is mostly on that range, I think he might be able to win the league. However, it's like you said, it's still the difference between a top team from Premier League and a bottom team, so the normal should be not winning. Expand
It's really impossible to give any correct prediction only by looking at the quality of the players in your team and in order to give more or less correct prediction you should always take into consideration the quality of your opponents.
For example, you might have 160CA players in your team but if you play in a league where all your opponents have 180CA players then your team will be the weakest team in the league and finishing somewhere at the middle of the table with such team team should be considered as a very good result even using the best tactics.
But if you put your 160CA team into a league that consists of 140CA teams then you should expect to greatly dominate this league and it should be very easy to get the 1st place even using an very average tactic.
A 20CA difference is a very significant difference in FM and most of time it's the difference between the strongest and weakest teams in leagues.
ZaZ said: It might be just because I consider most players with ability close to 150 as world class players, and since his team is mostly on that range, I think he might be able to win the league. However, it's like you said, it's still the difference between a top team from Premier League and a bottom team, so the normal should be not winning. Expand
I like to play in French League 1 and must say that competing with PSG is nightmare because it isn't rare to see PSG ends up with 114 points ( 38 Wins / 0 Draws / 0 Loses )
The average CA of PSG team is crazy in FM
There're 3 players (Mbappe, Messi and Neymar) have CA 180+ in PSG team and the rest of the players have about CA 160+
I find if you want to compete with PSG for the 1st place in the league then you need to have a similar quality team.
If you have only CA 150 players in your team then your chances on winning the league are very small even with a very good tactic.
No problem for me here to win Ligue 1 with Marseille the first year. Beat PSG on domestic league, on supercup, and europa supercup (because of PSG CL winner, and i Europa winner).
With my own experience and all the great great great advice from Zaz i find it easy now to perform as you want.
I also take a large part on youth development, to do what i really want to obtain for young men
Falbravv said: No problem for me here to win Ligue 1 with Marseille the first year. Beat PSG on domestic league, on supercup, and europa supercup (because of PSG CL winner, and i Europa winner).
With my own experience and all the great great great advice from Zaz i find it easy now to perform as you want.
I also take a large part on youth development, to do what i really want to obtain for young men Expand
Gratz! I'll try to organize all those tips from first post into a more in-depth guide for FM23.
I saw this on Twitter, i think it's a good idea, but i also like the "easy" side of all the tips. But trust me, i will be the first reader of this guide.
Falbravv said: I saw this on Twitter, i think it's a good idea, but i also like the "easy" side of all the tips. But trust me, i will be the first reader of this guide. Expand
Probably should start with a summary section, so people can check everything easily.
For the main Blue 4.0 tactic (or any of these really) is it recommended to alter the player instructions to fit my player's skill sets? Or should I leave it as is?
johnconnerson said: For the main Blue 4.0 tactic (or any of these really) is it recommended to alter the player instructions to fit my player's skill sets? Or should I leave it as is? Expand
sangarios said: thank you both for your helps. i have shared gs squad screen's of chelsea and my team. what do you think about my squad, is it enough after 7 seasons? my main problem in league is that chelsea is collecting more than 90 points every fckn season and when it comes to matches with them, i cant just help it but lose or draw thanks to mbappe the worst thing about playing with instant result is i cant change the tactic upon situation of the match, i have been using green 5.0 since the start, and i'm losing most of the points to the teams that i should have won easily, like they are getting ahead 1-0 and i'm still playing with green instead of blue. Expand
i think i have found the problem , i have been giving duty of touchline instructions to assistant manager since the beginning so that he can handle the shouts in match. but now i think that he was changing tactic's instructions all the time and this is the reason of my poor results. what do you think about that? is it possible? @ZaZ
sangarios said: i think i have found the problem , i have been giving duty of touchline instructions to assistant manager since the beginning so that he can handle the shouts in match. but now i think that he was changing tactic's instructions all the time and this is the reason of my poor results. what do you think about that? is it possible? @ZaZ Expand
I don't know how it works, but 99% of advice from assistant manager during matches is bad stuff, like "we should play with defensive mentality" if the opponent is stronger. If he is applying those instructions, then your performance will definitely suffer.
Opposition instructions based on an assistant manager's opinion, as long as he has a high tactical knowledge, seem to do really well. It's hard to tell, but it did produce good results for me. Started using them more and more.
Just check the quality of your wingback + winger. Same for your opponent. If your main winger broke your leg and you have to play a youngster with 16 years old, then your strong side is probably the opposite.
You can also check in the Data Hub to see where most goals come from. If one side clearly creates more goals than the others, that's a hint.
ZaZ said: Match load is influenced only by matches in the previous two weeks (or something like that). It is not affected by training or resting. That means if your match load is heavy, then you either have to rotate more, or live with it. It's normal to happen around the middle of the season, when you have multiple tournaments to play. Expand
I think I probably just hit a bad patch, it solved itself without too much intervention
keithb said: Have you changed all your players training intensity to automatic? I know some people before forgot to do that. Re the fatigue you need to manually rest the player when he returns to training, otherwise the auto settings override the week rest. Expand
I have it on automatic. Do I still need to manually rest players at some times?
ZaZ said: I have added a new piece of information to the first post: "Use Focus Play Down the Left/Right whenever you have an advantage on that side, (when your opponent has a weakness on that side, or when one of your flanks is clearly stronger than the other). Do not bother with Focus Play Through The Middle, as it does not give any benefit even when your opponent has a weak midfield." Expand
Is this an opposition instruction? Is this something you have tested @ZaZ ?
Zippo said: We've tested them and found that it's not worth bothering Expand
This was my understanding but @ZaZ isn't usually someone who adds something like this on a feeling, which is why I was interested in where the idea came from
@ZaZ Thanks mate, I didn't realise that guy was also doing videos on other channels so I'll check them out.
I wanted to ask you more about the Blue/Green combo tactic. I'm going to start a new save today and try it. Obviously you think its worth doing but does the drop in quality of player not diminish the effectiveness of the tactic?
For example, in my previous save I was using @Geek Positive Tika Taka + your Green and Green Light and I could build a squad with quality players in each position. I think its rare to find a player with a high positional score for CM and ST (maybe 90 and 79 respectively), so does that not drop the quality of the team overall?
I tend to use Instant Result so I'm not able to sub in players if formation changes using a match plan
Now thinking about it, maybe Green 5.0 and Positive Tika Taka aren't much different
Middleweight165 said: @ZaZ Thanks mate, I didn't realise that guy was also doing videos on other channels so I'll check them out.
I wanted to ask you more about the Blue/Green combo tactic. I'm going to start a new save today and try it. Obviously you think its worth doing but does the drop in quality of player not diminish the effectiveness of the tactic?
For example, in my previous save I was using @Geek Positive Tika Taka + your Green and Green Light and I could build a squad with quality players in each position. I think its rare to find a player with a high positional score for CM and ST (maybe 90 and 79 respectively), so does that not drop the quality of the team overall?
I tend to use Instant Result so I'm not able to sub in players if formation changes using a match plan Expand
It's not very practical to hire someone skilled in multiple positions, because the combination CM+ST is not very common. Instead, if you start training to a completely new position during pre-season, it usually takes five to ten official matches to reach accomplished rating (dark green color). I feel like it's fine to have this downtime in order to have an easy transition between Blue and Green, because those tactics complement each other and are useful in different situations.
ZaZ said: It's not very practical to hire someone skilled in multiple positions, because the combination CM+ST is not very common. Instead, if you start training to a completely new position during pre-season, it usually takes five to ten official matches to reach accomplished rating (dark green color). I feel like it's fine to have this downtime in order to have an easy transition between Blue and Green, because those tactics complement each other and are useful in different situations. Expand
I think its the attribute distribution which is my concern. If I take my CM who's positional rating on GS is 83 and his FS rating is 73. Even if he trains in the ST position and gets accomplished his positional rating will still be the same won't it? So by moving him to ST position during the game, the overall quality of my team will drop by 10 pts
Middleweight165 said: I think its the attribute distribution which is my concern. If I take my CM who's positional rating on GS is 83 and his FS rating is 73. Even if he trains in the ST position and gets accomplished his positional rating will still be the same won't it? So by moving him to ST position during the game, the overall quality of my team will drop by 10 pts Expand
Once they get at least accomplished, then the difference won't be so noticeable. The CM-AM will be fine, since attributes required are barely the same, and the CM-ST also have several attributes that are important for both. Even if your player is better at one position than the other, the difference will be too small when compared to the benefit of having an excellent tactic to attack and another excellent tactic to defend. For each team of 11 players, that would mean: GK DC DC DL/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much) DL/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much) DM CM/AM CM/ST AML/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much) AML/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much) ST
Another option is to only train one CM as AM, and instead of retraining the other CM as ST, you can have both players available in your squad. That means having 12 players per team instead of 11, and bring the extra to the bench. For a bench with 7 players, they would look something like this: GK DL/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much) DC DM CM-AM (trained in both positions) AML/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much) ST
Personally, I prefer to have a CM that can also play as ST, even if he isn't as good in one position as the other. In practice, we are talking about a single player performing 5% to 10% worse, from a team of 10 players (plus GK). It's not like you will lose 5 to 10% in performance. Also, since you use GS, you can probably find players that are almost equally good in both positions, if you check "General Rating" instead of "Positional Rating".
@ZaZ I would have to use the 1st option as I instant result most games and I would assume the assistant manager wouldnt solve it.
I wasn't aware there were different ratings, general and positional. Looking into this has just made me more confused I will continue my questions in @Mark thread because I think it's most suitable there
Is there a position value I shouldn’t go below because it will either take too long or it will cost too many attribute points, I’m assuming retraining position cost attribute points?
Middleweight165 said: @ZaZ I would have to use the 1st option as I instant result most games and I would assume the assistant manager wouldnt solve it.
I wasn't aware there were different ratings, general and positional. Looking into this has just made me more confused I will continue my questions in @Mark thread because I think it's most suitable there
Is there a position value I shouldn’t go below because it will either take too long or it will cost too many attribute points, I’m assuming retraining position cost attribute points? Expand
No, it doesn't cost any points to retrain position. However, it seems to consider the CA from the most expensive position. If you go to the Editor and set a ST to have 20 in CM, it will keep the CA from ST, because it's higher. If you do the other way around (set a CM to 20 in ST), it changes the CA to that of a ST.
However, the difference isn't so big and the benefit of having Blue + Green far outweighs any loss of 3 or 5 in PA (having higher CA doesn't affect the current ability, it just means you reach PA faster).
About positional and general rating, the first is considering the ability on the position, while the second is considering only attributes.
ZaZ said: No, it doesn't cost any points to retrain position. However, it seems to consider the CA from the most expensive position. If you go to the Editor and set a ST to have 20 in CM, it will keep the CA from ST, because it's higher. If you do the other way around (set a CM to 20 in ST), it changes the CA to that of a ST.
However, the difference isn't so big and the benefit of having Blue + Green far outweighs any loss of 3 or 5 in PA (having higher CA doesn't affect the current ability, it just means you reach PA faster).
About positional and general rating, the first is considering the ability on the position, while the second is considering only attributes. Expand
Why does Current Ability change if the position value changes? I would assume the CA remained the same if you changed a players position in the editor. Why would that then mean losing potential ability points?
Middleweight165 said: Why does Current Ability change if the position value changes? I would assume the CA remained the same if you changed a players position in the editor. Why would that then mean losing potential ability points? Expand
For example, let's take a player with the following parameters:
"15" Finishing "10" Tackling
and assume that this player is capable of playing only at one position, which is "Central Striker" position so in this case "1" point of "Finishing" attribute would cost him "1.6 CA" and "1" point of "Tackling" would cost him "0.2 CA".
As you can see the "Tackling" attribute is cheap for a pure striker, it costs him only about "0.2 CA" but the "Finishing" attribute is expensive, it costs him "1.6 CA".
Now, let's calculate the required CA for having the attributes above:
Finishing "1.6 CA" x 15 = "24 CA" Tackling "0.2 CA" x 10 = "2 CA"
"24 CA" + "2 CA" = "26 CA". - So our "pure" striker must have "26 CA".
But what would happen if we decide to train our "pure" striker to be able to play "Central Defender"? In this case, if he won't get a CA increase then his attributes will drop because the cost of the "Tackling" attribute will greatly increase for him from "0.2 CA" to "1.2 CA", in other words, he won't be able to afford having "15" Finishing and "10" Tackling with his "26 CA" budget and the only way to avoid the attribute drop is getting his CA increased but if he doesn't manage to get a CA increase during that period then as I said his attributes will drop.
That's why you always must be carefully with a new/additional position training because gaining position rating always increases the CA "price" the attributes, and if a CA promotion/increase doesn't follow after a position rating gain then the attributes drop to fit into the CA.
Of course, I greatly simplified many things in the explanation above but I hope it still gives a good clue of how it works.
Middleweight165 said: Why does Current Ability change if the position value changes? I would assume the CA remained the same if you changed a players position in the editor. Why would that then mean losing potential ability points?
Is there a positional value you wouldnt go below when retraining a CM to ST? I'm assuming 1 would take too long. Is there a cutoff value? Expand
To explain in simple words, CA is not exactly related to performance, but to how close a player is to stop growing (reaching his PA). The performance is related to attributes, which in turn affect CA. However, you can have two players with the same CA, but completely different levels of performance.
Anyway, when you train a player in another position, it might increase the CA by a couple of points, but that doesn't change the attributes, so the performance will stay the same. In practice, he will just reach his maximum potential faster.
Keep in mind that, as Zippo said, a change in the weight of attributes can cause it to not "fit" into the CA value, and that may cause the player to slowly change attributes to fit the new CA. However, since the development to another position takes a couple of months, then your attributes won't exactly drop, but instead it will just grow slightly less during training until it matches your CA.
Bogeyman said: A 20 points difference in CA is a huge difference in FM.
There's about a 20 points difference between Manchester Utd and Norwich but we all know how easy it's to win EPL with Manchester Utd and how hard it's to do that with Norwich.
Here's the CA of the default Manchester Utd team:
and here's the CA of the default Norwich team:
It might be just because I consider most players with ability close to 150 as world class players, and since his team is mostly on that range, I think he might be able to win the league. However, it's like you said, it's still the difference between a top team from Premier League and a bottom team, so the normal should be not winning.
Given the training video how much stock do you put into match practice. It seems that if you schedule a friendly cancel it, it will leave another match practice in place so this might be useful for international breaks and youth if you manage that part. You do have to add other sessions back so it might be a bit annoying for some people.
In fact I just tested again and it allows you to add as many match practice as you want, although this is fm21 so if someone could test 22.
ZaZ said: It might be just because I consider most players with ability close to 150 as world class players, and since his team is mostly on that range, I think he might be able to win the league. However, it's like you said, it's still the difference between a top team from Premier League and a bottom team, so the normal should be not winning.
It's really impossible to give any correct prediction only by looking at the quality of the players in your team and in order to give more or less correct prediction you should always take into consideration the quality of your opponents.
For example, you might have 160CA players in your team but if you play in a league where all your opponents have 180CA players then your team will be the weakest team in the league and finishing somewhere at the middle of the table with such team team should be considered as a very good result even using the best tactics.
But if you put your 160CA team into a league that consists of 140CA teams then you should expect to greatly dominate this league and it should be very easy to get the 1st place even using an very average tactic.
A 20CA difference is a very significant difference in FM and most of time it's the difference between the strongest and weakest teams in leagues.
ZaZ said: It might be just because I consider most players with ability close to 150 as world class players, and since his team is mostly on that range, I think he might be able to win the league. However, it's like you said, it's still the difference between a top team from Premier League and a bottom team, so the normal should be not winning.
I like to play in French League 1 and must say that competing with PSG is nightmare because it isn't rare to see PSG ends up with 114 points ( 38 Wins / 0 Draws / 0 Loses )
The average CA of PSG team is crazy in FM
There're 3 players (Mbappe, Messi and Neymar) have CA 180+ in PSG team and the rest of the players have about CA 160+
I find if you want to compete with PSG for the 1st place in the league then you need to have a similar quality team.
If you have only CA 150 players in your team then your chances on winning the league are very small even with a very good tactic.
No problem for me here to win Ligue 1 with Marseille the first year. Beat PSG on domestic league, on supercup, and europa supercup (because of PSG CL winner, and i Europa winner).
With my own experience and all the great great great advice from Zaz i find it easy now to perform as you want.
I also take a large part on youth development, to do what i really want to obtain for young men
Falbravv said: No problem for me here to win Ligue 1 with Marseille the first year. Beat PSG on domestic league, on supercup, and europa supercup (because of PSG CL winner, and i Europa winner).
With my own experience and all the great great great advice from Zaz i find it easy now to perform as you want.
I also take a large part on youth development, to do what i really want to obtain for young men
Gratz! I'll try to organize all those tips from first post into a more in-depth guide for FM23.
I saw this on Twitter, i think it's a good idea, but i also like the "easy" side of all the tips.
But trust me, i will be the first reader of this guide.
Falbravv said: I saw this on Twitter, i think it's a good idea, but i also like the "easy" side of all the tips.
But trust me, i will be the first reader of this guide.
Probably should start with a summary section, so people can check everything easily.
For the main Blue 4.0 tactic (or any of these really) is it recommended to alter the player instructions to fit my player's skill sets? Or should I leave it as is?
johnconnerson said: For the main Blue 4.0 tactic (or any of these really) is it recommended to alter the player instructions to fit my player's skill sets? Or should I leave it as is?
Leave as it is.
sangarios said: thank you both for your helps. i have shared gs squad screen's of chelsea and my team. what do you think about my squad, is it enough after 7 seasons? my main problem in league is that chelsea is collecting more than 90 points every fckn season and when it comes to matches with them, i cant just help it but lose or draw thanks to mbappe
the worst thing about playing with instant result is i cant change the tactic upon situation of the match, i have been using green 5.0 since the start, and i'm losing most of the points to the teams that i should have won easily, like they are getting ahead 1-0 and i'm still playing with green instead of blue.
i think i have found the problem , i have been giving duty of touchline instructions to assistant manager since the beginning so that he can handle the shouts in match. but now i think that he was changing tactic's instructions all the time and this is the reason of my poor results. what do you think about that? is it possible? @ZaZ
sangarios said: i think i have found the problem , i have been giving duty of touchline instructions to assistant manager since the beginning so that he can handle the shouts in match. but now i think that he was changing tactic's instructions all the time and this is the reason of my poor results. what do you think about that? is it possible? @ZaZ
I don't know how it works, but 99% of advice from assistant manager during matches is bad stuff, like "we should play with defensive mentality" if the opponent is stronger. If he is applying those instructions, then your performance will definitely suffer.
Opposition instructions based on an assistant manager's opinion, as long as he has a high tactical knowledge, seem to do really well. It's hard to tell, but it did produce good results for me. Started using them more and more.
@ZaZ where can i see my stronger side and opponent weaker side?
WesleySantiago said: @ZaZ where can i see my stronger side and opponent weaker side?
Just check the quality of your wingback + winger. Same for your opponent. If your main winger broke your leg and you have to play a youngster with 16 years old, then your strong side is probably the opposite.
You can also check in the Data Hub to see where most goals come from. If one side clearly creates more goals than the others, that's a hint.
ZaZ said: Match load is influenced only by matches in the previous two weeks (or something like that). It is not affected by training or resting. That means if your match load is heavy, then you either have to rotate more, or live with it. It's normal to happen around the middle of the season, when you have multiple tournaments to play.
I think I probably just hit a bad patch, it solved itself without too much intervention
keithb said: Have you changed all your players training intensity to automatic? I know some people before forgot to do that. Re the fatigue you need to manually rest the player when he returns to training, otherwise the auto settings override the week rest.
I have it on automatic. Do I still need to manually rest players at some times?
ZaZ said: I have added a new piece of information to the first post:
"Use Focus Play Down the Left/Right whenever you have an advantage on that side, (when your opponent has a weakness on that side, or when one of your flanks is clearly stronger than the other). Do not bother with Focus Play Through The Middle, as it does not give any benefit even when your opponent has a weak midfield."
Is this an opposition instruction? Is this something you have tested @ZaZ ?
Middleweight165 said: Is this an opposition instruction? Is this something you have tested @ZaZ ?
We've tested them and found that it's not worth bothering
Zippo said: We've tested them and found that it's not worth bothering
This was my understanding but @ZaZ isn't usually someone who adds something like this on a feeling, which is why I was interested in where the idea came from
Middleweight165 said: I have it on automatic. Do I still need to manually rest players at some times?
No, but you still need to rotate to avoid fatigue. Resting from training is focused on condition, not on fatigue.
Middleweight165 said: Is this an opposition instruction? Is this something you have tested @ZaZ ?
Max has tested it. I linked the video in the post to make clear where the claim comes from.
Zippo said: We've tested them and found that it's not worth bothering
Did you also test it in a team with a side stronger than the other?
@ZaZ Thanks mate, I didn't realise that guy was also doing videos on other channels so I'll check them out.
I wanted to ask you more about the Blue/Green combo tactic. I'm going to start a new save today and try it. Obviously you think its worth doing but does the drop in quality of player not diminish the effectiveness of the tactic?
For example, in my previous save I was using @Geek Positive Tika Taka + your Green and Green Light and I could build a squad with quality players in each position. I think its rare to find a player with a high positional score for CM and ST (maybe 90 and 79 respectively), so does that not drop the quality of the team overall?
I tend to use Instant Result so I'm not able to sub in players if formation changes using a match plan
Now thinking about it, maybe Green 5.0 and Positive Tika Taka aren't much different
Middleweight165 said: @ZaZ Thanks mate, I didn't realise that guy was also doing videos on other channels so I'll check them out.
I wanted to ask you more about the Blue/Green combo tactic. I'm going to start a new save today and try it. Obviously you think its worth doing but does the drop in quality of player not diminish the effectiveness of the tactic?
For example, in my previous save I was using @Geek Positive Tika Taka + your Green and Green Light and I could build a squad with quality players in each position. I think its rare to find a player with a high positional score for CM and ST (maybe 90 and 79 respectively), so does that not drop the quality of the team overall?
I tend to use Instant Result so I'm not able to sub in players if formation changes using a match plan
It's not very practical to hire someone skilled in multiple positions, because the combination CM+ST is not very common. Instead, if you start training to a completely new position during pre-season, it usually takes five to ten official matches to reach accomplished rating (dark green color). I feel like it's fine to have this downtime in order to have an easy transition between Blue and Green, because those tactics complement each other and are useful in different situations.
ZaZ said: It's not very practical to hire someone skilled in multiple positions, because the combination CM+ST is not very common. Instead, if you start training to a completely new position during pre-season, it usually takes five to ten official matches to reach accomplished rating (dark green color). I feel like it's fine to have this downtime in order to have an easy transition between Blue and Green, because those tactics complement each other and are useful in different situations.
I think its the attribute distribution which is my concern. If I take my CM who's positional rating on GS is 83 and his FS rating is 73. Even if he trains in the ST position and gets accomplished his positional rating will still be the same won't it? So by moving him to ST position during the game, the overall quality of my team will drop by 10 pts
Middleweight165 said: I think its the attribute distribution which is my concern. If I take my CM who's positional rating on GS is 83 and his FS rating is 73. Even if he trains in the ST position and gets accomplished his positional rating will still be the same won't it? So by moving him to ST position during the game, the overall quality of my team will drop by 10 pts
Once they get at least accomplished, then the difference won't be so noticeable. The CM-AM will be fine, since attributes required are barely the same, and the CM-ST also have several attributes that are important for both. Even if your player is better at one position than the other, the difference will be too small when compared to the benefit of having an excellent tactic to attack and another excellent tactic to defend. For each team of 11 players, that would mean:
GK
DC
DC
DL/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much)
DL/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much)
DM
CM/AM
CM/ST
AML/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much)
AML/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much)
ST
Another option is to only train one CM as AM, and instead of retraining the other CM as ST, you can have both players available in your squad. That means having 12 players per team instead of 11, and bring the extra to the bench. For a bench with 7 players, they would look something like this:
GK
DL/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much)
DC
DM
CM-AM (trained in both positions)
AML/R (trained in both sides, since foot doesn't matter much)
ST
Personally, I prefer to have a CM that can also play as ST, even if he isn't as good in one position as the other. In practice, we are talking about a single player performing 5% to 10% worse, from a team of 10 players (plus GK). It's not like you will lose 5 to 10% in performance. Also, since you use GS, you can probably find players that are almost equally good in both positions, if you check "General Rating" instead of "Positional Rating".
@ZaZ I would have to use the 1st option as I instant result most games and I would assume the assistant manager wouldnt solve it.
I will continue my questions in @Mark thread because I think it's most suitable there
I wasn't aware there were different ratings, general and positional. Looking into this has just made me more confused
Is there a position value I shouldn’t go below because it will either take too long or it will cost too many attribute points, I’m assuming retraining position cost attribute points?
Middleweight165 said: @ZaZ I would have to use the 1st option as I instant result most games and I would assume the assistant manager wouldnt solve it.
I will continue my questions in @Mark thread because I think it's most suitable there
I wasn't aware there were different ratings, general and positional. Looking into this has just made me more confused
Is there a position value I shouldn’t go below because it will either take too long or it will cost too many attribute points, I’m assuming retraining position cost attribute points?
No, it doesn't cost any points to retrain position. However, it seems to consider the CA from the most expensive position. If you go to the Editor and set a ST to have 20 in CM, it will keep the CA from ST, because it's higher. If you do the other way around (set a CM to 20 in ST), it changes the CA to that of a ST.
However, the difference isn't so big and the benefit of having Blue + Green far outweighs any loss of 3 or 5 in PA (having higher CA doesn't affect the current ability, it just means you reach PA faster).
About positional and general rating, the first is considering the ability on the position, while the second is considering only attributes.
ZaZ said: No, it doesn't cost any points to retrain position. However, it seems to consider the CA from the most expensive position. If you go to the Editor and set a ST to have 20 in CM, it will keep the CA from ST, because it's higher. If you do the other way around (set a CM to 20 in ST), it changes the CA to that of a ST.
However, the difference isn't so big and the benefit of having Blue + Green far outweighs any loss of 3 or 5 in PA (having higher CA doesn't affect the current ability, it just means you reach PA faster).
About positional and general rating, the first is considering the ability on the position, while the second is considering only attributes.
Why does Current Ability change if the position value changes? I would assume the CA remained the same if you changed a players position in the editor. Why would that then mean losing potential ability points?
Edit - I read this comment of yours in another thread (https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/13884/), It's clear now
Is there a positional value you wouldnt go below when retraining a CM to ST? I'm assuming 1 would take too long. Is there a cutoff value?
Middleweight165 said: Why does Current Ability change if the position value changes? I would assume the CA remained the same if you changed a players position in the editor. Why would that then mean losing potential ability points?
For example, let's take a player with the following parameters:
"15" Finishing
"10" Tackling
and assume that this player is capable of playing only at one position, which is "Central Striker" position so in this case "1" point of "Finishing" attribute would cost him "1.6 CA" and "1" point of "Tackling" would cost him "0.2 CA".
As you can see the "Tackling" attribute is cheap for a pure striker, it costs him only about "0.2 CA" but the "Finishing" attribute is expensive, it costs him "1.6 CA".
Now, let's calculate the required CA for having the attributes above:
Finishing "1.6 CA" x 15 = "24 CA"
Tackling "0.2 CA" x 10 = "2 CA"
"24 CA" + "2 CA" = "26 CA". - So our "pure" striker must have "26 CA".
But what would happen if we decide to train our "pure" striker to be able to play "Central Defender"? In this case, if he won't get a CA increase then his attributes will drop because the cost of the "Tackling" attribute will greatly increase for him from "0.2 CA" to "1.2 CA", in other words, he won't be able to afford having "15" Finishing and "10" Tackling with his "26 CA" budget and the only way to avoid the attribute drop is getting his CA increased but if he doesn't manage to get a CA increase during that period then as I said his attributes will drop.
That's why you always must be carefully with a new/additional position training because gaining position rating always increases the CA "price" the attributes, and if a CA promotion/increase doesn't follow after a position rating gain then the attributes drop to fit into the CA.
Of course, I greatly simplified many things in the explanation above but I hope it still gives a good clue of how it works.
Middleweight165 said: Why does Current Ability change if the position value changes? I would assume the CA remained the same if you changed a players position in the editor. Why would that then mean losing potential ability points?
Edit - I read this comment of yours in another thread (https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/13884/), It's clear now
Is there a positional value you wouldnt go below when retraining a CM to ST? I'm assuming 1 would take too long. Is there a cutoff value?
To explain in simple words, CA is not exactly related to performance, but to how close a player is to stop growing (reaching his PA). The performance is related to attributes, which in turn affect CA. However, you can have two players with the same CA, but completely different levels of performance.
Anyway, when you train a player in another position, it might increase the CA by a couple of points, but that doesn't change the attributes, so the performance will stay the same. In practice, he will just reach his maximum potential faster.
Keep in mind that, as Zippo said, a change in the weight of attributes can cause it to not "fit" into the CA value, and that may cause the player to slowly change attributes to fit the new CA. However, since the development to another position takes a couple of months, then your attributes won't exactly drop, but instead it will just grow slightly less during training until it matches your CA.