i know it's not meta and probably wouldn't score nearly as well, but I'd love to see a test of a mid-block 442 with pfs. I know it's great to close out a win.
Zippo said: It has been tested and proven many times that Acceleration and Pace attributes are much more valuable than Strength and Jumping Reach for any striker role.
Speaking other words, if you have TF role in your tactic then with a fast and short striker for that role your result always will be much better than if you had a strong, tall but slow striker. Expand
I've just had a lightbulb moment. The reason small, speedy "target" forwards outrank more traditional target forwards has absolutely nothing at all to do with target forwards. It's because (being quick and fast) they're better at pressing.
Pressing is king. The reason speed and acc kill everything else in the attribute tests is because they're the #1 best way to improve your pressing effectiveness. Not only does the ball presser arrive sooner, but all his teammates will rotate quicker behind him.
That quicker forward gets to his man quicker, but he also is quicker to break into space if the press wins the ball elsewhere on the field.
If the meta wasn't so gegenpress-dominated, I think there'd be more room for big, slow target forwards. Currently, for a slow forward to pull their weight they need to bring something else to the party, whether that's playmaking or set pieces or something.
Sincere apologies if everyone else realized this ages ago and I'm just a little slow to pick up on it
lagoalaguna said: I loved the way this tactic played in the FM22 engine, and to be honest it kinda bums me out I can't have anything close to it on FM24. Expand
so, I've been unsuccessfully trying to find the quote off and on for a while, but I'm pretty sure that it was in the buildup to the release of fm23 that miles or someone at SI talked about how they were trying to make first touches and passing weights a little more realistic and you could tell it was working because the ball would bobble around more in midfield and the engine wasn't full of everyone playing silky smooth tikitaka like peak barcelona.
All of this to say brother, I feel your pain so much. I had a narrow diamond that I just ADORED, and it completely shredded everyone, and it looked so pretty. I'm pretty sure it was also fm22. I remember reading that preview and getting a sinking feeling that the days of lovely dangerous possession were over.
So now we all play 424 gegenpress and it's still fun, but...i dunno, man. I still think about that diamond.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about why diamonds are so crappy this year but the box is strong. They should be pretty similar systems, right?
-clearly, double dms are very strong -2 strikers + 2 ams is also clearly very strong. I think it just overloads the defensive ai with numbers. If you get enough dudes in the box, someone's going to find a pocket of space -cms just don't seem to do enough relative to other options. It's hard to get any system to score well if it has 2 actual cms: 433, 352, diamond, flat 442--all missing from the top of the leaderboard -lack of defensive cover on the wings prob. ain't helping either. inside forwards or even amcs that aren't dead center will put at least some pressure on fullbacks during buildup. -stylistically, the match engine this year just doesn't seem to like quick, intricate passing which a diamond should excel at.
so what can be done? You could maybe try to mimic a box setup and see how that goes: dm on some kind of support role, an mc on defend and one on attack, amc on attack or maybe even an ss, two strikers on stay wider, and fb(a) to maybe be a little more solid on the flanks. I haven't had the time to test it myself yet but it sounds reasonable.
has anybody tried a brighton-style 4231 setup w/ 2 narrow IF(a)s, a CF(s) and some kind of AM? Seems like IF right now miiiiiiiiight be good enough to pull it off.
mindof said: How important is the Attacking mentality ? I like to play balanced, but will it decrease this tactic's efficiency if I don't set the mentality to Attacking ? Expand
you'll see very similar tactics on the leaderboard where the only/main difference between them is ATT v. BAL. It seems a bit random which scores better. My hunch is that game state matters a lot (i.e., are you up 1-0 or down 1-0?) but that in general ATT and BAL compliment each other and work well with similar team instructions.
personally, I find myself flipping between the two all the damn time.
the issue is that this is a possession-centric shape and traditional possession tactics kind of suck right now compared to gegenpress variations. Where a brazilian box wants to press press press and a wide diamond wants to spread you out and work the resulting gaps, narrow diamond really just wants to tiki-taka the nest of triangles in the center of the pitch.
I *love* narrow diamonds. My all-time favorite tactic was a diamond in fm21 or 22 that just absolutely shredded everyone all the time. That was the year before there was a big focus on making everyone's first touch in traffic more realistic.
man that's a solid score for a classic 442, especially without double-AFs.
(totally off-topic: I remember years ago the SI forums profanity filter was a little overeager and did not care for the Iron, rendering it as "s****horpe" )
ah man I saw the title and thought someone was going to roll a 5-0-5-0.
I like the idea of this, with the 4 support players strung across the middle of the formation and the balanced mentality--sort of a "do-what-needs-doing" midfield setup. I feel like this would work better in real life than in the match engine, sadly, because I like that kind of midfield.
eta: maybe IW instead of W on the flanks? Getting the wide midfielders to move more central, kind of like a marcelino thing
Speaking other words, if you have TF role in your tactic then with a fast and short striker for that role your result always will be much better than if you had a strong, tall but slow striker.
I've just had a lightbulb moment. The reason small, speedy "target" forwards outrank more traditional target forwards has absolutely nothing at all to do with target forwards. It's because (being quick and fast) they're better at pressing.
Pressing is king. The reason speed and acc kill everything else in the attribute tests is because they're the #1 best way to improve your pressing effectiveness. Not only does the ball presser arrive sooner, but all his teammates will rotate quicker behind him.
That quicker forward gets to his man quicker, but he also is quicker to break into space if the press wins the ball elsewhere on the field.
If the meta wasn't so gegenpress-dominated, I think there'd be more room for big, slow target forwards. Currently, for a slow forward to pull their weight they need to bring something else to the party, whether that's playmaking or set pieces or something.
Sincere apologies if everyone else realized this ages ago and I'm just a little slow to pick up on it
so, I've been unsuccessfully trying to find the quote off and on for a while, but I'm pretty sure that it was in the buildup to the release of fm23 that miles or someone at SI talked about how they were trying to make first touches and passing weights a little more realistic and you could tell it was working because the ball would bobble around more in midfield and the engine wasn't full of everyone playing silky smooth tikitaka like peak barcelona.
All of this to say brother, I feel your pain so much. I had a narrow diamond that I just ADORED, and it completely shredded everyone, and it looked so pretty. I'm pretty sure it was also fm22. I remember reading that preview and getting a sinking feeling that the days of lovely dangerous possession were over.
So now we all play 424 gegenpress and it's still fun, but...i dunno, man. I still think about that diamond.
Please keep us updated on how this tactic progresses!
what we need is a bwm role in the amc slot! (also maybe a targetman)
-clearly, double dms are very strong
-2 strikers + 2 ams is also clearly very strong. I think it just overloads the defensive ai with numbers. If you get enough dudes in the box, someone's going to find a pocket of space
-cms just don't seem to do enough relative to other options. It's hard to get any system to score well if it has 2 actual cms: 433, 352, diamond, flat 442--all missing from the top of the leaderboard
-lack of defensive cover on the wings prob. ain't helping either. inside forwards or even amcs that aren't dead center will put at least some pressure on fullbacks during buildup.
-stylistically, the match engine this year just doesn't seem to like quick, intricate passing which a diamond should excel at.
so what can be done? You could maybe try to mimic a box setup and see how that goes: dm on some kind of support role, an mc on defend and one on attack, amc on attack or maybe even an ss, two strikers on stay wider, and fb(a) to maybe be a little more solid on the flanks. I haven't had the time to test it myself yet but it sounds reasonable.
-PI changes
sooooooo what were the pi changes? what kind of tease is that?
nah
what on earth caused this tactic to crater? thoughts?
you'll see very similar tactics on the leaderboard where the only/main difference between them is ATT v. BAL. It seems a bit random which scores better. My hunch is that game state matters a lot (i.e., are you up 1-0 or down 1-0?) but that in general ATT and BAL compliment each other and work well with similar team instructions.
personally, I find myself flipping between the two all the damn time.
I *love* narrow diamonds. My all-time favorite tactic was a diamond in fm21 or 22 that just absolutely shredded everyone all the time. That was the year before there was a big focus on making everyone's first touch in traffic more realistic.
(totally off-topic: I remember years ago the SI forums profanity filter was a little overeager and did not care for the Iron, rendering it as "s****horpe" )
I like the idea of this, with the 4 support players strung across the middle of the formation and the balanced mentality--sort of a "do-what-needs-doing" midfield setup. I feel like this would work better in real life than in the match engine, sadly, because I like that kind of midfield.
eta: maybe IW instead of W on the flanks? Getting the wide midfielders to move more central, kind of like a marcelino thing