Yeah, those in my image are just the default values. As I said, I don't use them. I use my own way of evaluating players based on how I feel they fit within my system and how I would want them to play. Works well enough for me, but well... my name is Speed after all so I guess I value the right things haha.
doru228 said: i dont know what they prioritised there, can't open them for some reason Expand
There are different stats for each position. You can see them in Settings (click on FMRTE topright)
I don't use them for the same reason I don't use genie or CA/PA in general while playing, but judging from how it's implemented, you can adjust them to be however you like them to be.
In one of his other experiments he has shown a connection between units and development, to the extent where dumping every player into one unit and focusing entirely on one type of training schedule should in theory lead to more development.
Surely there are ways to optimize for specific kinds of attribute growth. Every schedule distribution will come with tradeoffs, so what those optimizations will look like depend on what you want to get from your players long-term.
I think EBTS is a great starting point for overall well-rounded players. If you want more speed demons, are willing to accept more injuries/exhaustion that you'd compensate with better rotation, etc. then focusing more on physical training rather than general training would provide better results.
We could do more testing to aim towards idealized stat weightings rather than even weight. For the meta tactics, speed and technique seem more important than mentals, so steering towards those would be a good start.
There is also the question of whether the training schedules work exactly the same in FM24 as they did in FM23. There was some difference between 23 and 22...
Also, just to note, long shots may not be as desirable, but they develop really well regardless of what you train, so there's not much point optimizing away from them I think.
I've been using Squirrel_plays' app on my current save and it's quite neat. It's not perfect, mind you, but it gives a good rough estimate of a player's quality in a certain position.
I find it very useful to quickly look through my team's roster and sort out players, find holes, suitable tactics, and potential off-load candidates. For a journeyman save it helps a ton.
But what I like most about it is that it gives me a single consistent metric to track player development and compare squads with.
My Swallows squad early in the save:
LA Galaxy Ch League run:
My Inter squad later on:
You can clearly see standouts or if you have too many players in a position, and it can help you plan transfers or squad hierarchy.
A 13 rated player will always be better than an 11 rated player, although a few decimal point differences can be misleading, especially if you're not looking at all the suitable roles. Once you get a general evaluation, you can then look more in-depth to pick your favorites.
It also does a good job at pointing out underrated players that will most likely outperform their value. For example, Vasconcelos was a 2.5 star rated player I got for 100k that played better than my DPs that cost 20x more and still played better than a 4.5 star wonderkid I got for 10mil later on. The AI would never give such a player gametime.
Now, I can't say how it compares to Genie Scout ratings, since I haven't used those much, but it serves a similar purpose. It still needs some work, but you can customize stat priorities yourself so I like it as a scouting tool.
It's better than using CA/PA imo, and it feels less like cheating, since you still actually have to scout players and make value judgments yourself.
Looking at a player and going "Oh he went from 12.8 to 13.4 in a year. Nice." is way better than looking at this and being like "wtf".
The meta seems to favor Tackle Harder on every player.
Why do you think that is?
I wonder if it's actually relevant in a regular, human-managed game, or whether the benefits are most tangible in simulated seasons.
For example... Is the benefit of tackle harder the fact that players get more yellow cards, forcing them to be suspended more often, forcing the AI manager to rotate the squad more, leading to a happier and more fit squad that is less prone to injuries and morale drops from rowdy reserves?
Or is the benefit more localized, in how it intimidates the weaker opponents?
It would be interesting to test the effects of this instruction, and whether we can optimize it by selectively applying it to a certain type of player/opponent rather than the whole team.
Thoughts? I haven't found any thorough discussion on this topic.
I might explore it further myself and report back. Not exactly sure how yet though.
letsgo9 said: gotta to creare a test table only for him coz is kind hard to follow his results @dzek any tips? Expand
Yeah I think having a table with benchmarks for how the average default formations perform would be great. What you can do now is filter by author: Football Manager.
Introducing: 4-2-3-1 Central Domination Your #1 choice for creating central overloads.
(Pending more testing to verify claims)
Inspired by some of the available 4-2-3-1s around here, mainly Sing, Dance, Rap.
My focus was towards creating a 2-3-5 offensive shape for strong pressing, and entertaining attacking football with beautiful goals from every position. For that, I believe I succeeded. Will the match engine like it in the long run? That remains to be seen.
Also, I was tired of the DM/Vol dominance, so I wanted to try CMs instead. It's likely that an asymmetric version with 1 DM anchor performs better overall. I like vanilla, though.
This tactic is quite fun, with many positional shifts. The FM24 updates to positional play are showcased well.
Inverted Wingbacks and Inside Forwards cut inside a lot, so there is more build-up play and less crossing or hoofing the ball. Lots of progressive carries too.
Testing
I ran 3 seasons to test. I don't believe ManU are the best fit player-wise, but chose them for whatever reason. Below you'll find the best and worst results + bonus my active playthrough with Swallows. I used real-life transfer mode. The worst result was me not realizing I need to register Onana and sub Hojlund for Martial. On vacation whole season.
More images below.
If you try it out in your own game, it would be cool to see how you make it work in the comments.
Player Instructions
It's important that the right CM has Move Into Channels. And possibly a more offensive role performs better. I also use Roaming Playmaker and Mezzala Attack depending on suitability. The AM can also be Advanced Playmaker or Enganche. Play around and see what happens.
Other player instructions are Tackle Harder on everyone, Stay Wider on inside forwards, and Dribble More on central defenders.
Etc.
I also run a low intensity version on the side during my regular gameplay, for when games are already won. That one holds possession better, has lower risk of cards, and conserves energy. It's good for time-wasting. I recommend trying out different things and finding what works for your team.
Yeah, those in my image are just the default values. As I said, I don't use them. I use my own way of evaluating players based on how I feel they fit within my system and how I would want them to play. Works well enough for me, but well... my name is Speed after all so I guess I value the right things haha.
There are different stats for each position. You can see them in Settings (click on FMRTE topright)
I don't use them for the same reason I don't use genie or CA/PA in general while playing, but judging from how it's implemented, you can adjust them to be however you like them to be.
In one of his other experiments he has shown a connection between units and development, to the extent where dumping every player into one unit and focusing entirely on one type of training schedule should in theory lead to more development.
Surely there are ways to optimize for specific kinds of attribute growth. Every schedule distribution will come with tradeoffs, so what those optimizations will look like depend on what you want to get from your players long-term.
I think EBTS is a great starting point for overall well-rounded players. If you want more speed demons, are willing to accept more injuries/exhaustion that you'd compensate with better rotation, etc. then focusing more on physical training rather than general training would provide better results.
We could do more testing to aim towards idealized stat weightings rather than even weight. For the meta tactics, speed and technique seem more important than mentals, so steering towards those would be a good start.
There is also the question of whether the training schedules work exactly the same in FM24 as they did in FM23. There was some difference between 23 and 22...
Also, just to note, long shots may not be as desirable, but they develop really well regardless of what you train, so there's not much point optimizing away from them I think.
I find it very useful to quickly look through my team's roster and sort out players, find holes, suitable tactics, and potential off-load candidates. For a journeyman save it helps a ton.
But what I like most about it is that it gives me a single consistent metric to track player development and compare squads with.
My Swallows squad early in the save:
LA Galaxy Ch League run:
My Inter squad later on:
You can clearly see standouts or if you have too many players in a position, and it can help you plan transfers or squad hierarchy.
A 13 rated player will always be better than an 11 rated player, although a few decimal point differences can be misleading, especially if you're not looking at all the suitable roles. Once you get a general evaluation, you can then look more in-depth to pick your favorites.
It also does a good job at pointing out underrated players that will most likely outperform their value. For example, Vasconcelos was a 2.5 star rated player I got for 100k that played better than my DPs that cost 20x more and still played better than a 4.5 star wonderkid I got for 10mil later on. The AI would never give such a player gametime.
Now, I can't say how it compares to Genie Scout ratings, since I haven't used those much, but it serves a similar purpose. It still needs some work, but you can customize stat priorities yourself so I like it as a scouting tool.
It's better than using CA/PA imo, and it feels less like cheating, since you still actually have to scout players and make value judgments yourself.
Looking at a player and going "Oh he went from 12.8 to 13.4 in a year. Nice." is way better than looking at this and being like "wtf".
I like it.
Why do you think that is?
I wonder if it's actually relevant in a regular, human-managed game, or whether the benefits are most tangible in simulated seasons.
For example... Is the benefit of tackle harder the fact that players get more yellow cards, forcing them to be suspended more often, forcing the AI manager to rotate the squad more, leading to a happier and more fit squad that is less prone to injuries and morale drops from rowdy reserves?
Or is the benefit more localized, in how it intimidates the weaker opponents?
It would be interesting to test the effects of this instruction, and whether we can optimize it by selectively applying it to a certain type of player/opponent rather than the whole team.
Thoughts? I haven't found any thorough discussion on this topic.
I might explore it further myself and report back. Not exactly sure how yet though.
@dzek any tips?
Yeah I think having a table with benchmarks for how the average default formations perform would be great. What you can do now is filter by author: Football Manager.
Nice tactic.
Don't fret, because crossing is optional.
Introducing: 4-2-3-1 Central Domination
Your #1 choice for creating central overloads.
(Pending more testing to verify claims)
Inspired by some of the available 4-2-3-1s around here, mainly Sing, Dance, Rap.
My focus was towards creating a 2-3-5 offensive shape for strong pressing, and entertaining attacking football with beautiful goals from every position. For that, I believe I succeeded. Will the match engine like it in the long run? That remains to be seen.
Also, I was tired of the DM/Vol dominance, so I wanted to try CMs instead. It's likely that an asymmetric version with 1 DM anchor performs better overall. I like vanilla, though.
This tactic is quite fun, with many positional shifts. The FM24 updates to positional play are showcased well.
Inverted Wingbacks and Inside Forwards cut inside a lot, so there is more build-up play and less crossing or hoofing the ball. Lots of progressive carries too.
Testing
I ran 3 seasons to test. I don't believe ManU are the best fit player-wise, but chose them for whatever reason. Below you'll find the best and worst results + bonus my active playthrough with Swallows. I used real-life transfer mode. The worst result was me not realizing I need to register Onana and sub Hojlund for Martial. On vacation whole season.
More images below.
If you try it out in your own game, it would be cool to see how you make it work in the comments.
Player Instructions
It's important that the right CM has Move Into Channels. And possibly a more offensive role performs better. I also use Roaming Playmaker and Mezzala Attack depending on suitability. The AM can also be Advanced Playmaker or Enganche. Play around and see what happens.
Other player instructions are Tackle Harder on everyone, Stay Wider on inside forwards, and Dribble More on central defenders.
Etc.
I also run a low intensity version on the side during my regular gameplay, for when games are already won. That one holds possession better, has lower risk of cards, and conserves energy. It's good for time-wasting. I recommend trying out different things and finding what works for your team.
Enjoy.