I'd be very curious to understand the dynamic procedure you use to decide how many simulation runs to apply for each tactic. (Maybe this has already been explained in some post, in which case I'd greatly appreciate a link!)
Also, curious about what the up and down arrows regarding the number of points in the tactic testing exactly mean. Do they reflect a confidence interval (e.g., 95%?) for the mean points resulting from the tactic?
It seems pretty conclusive, IMO! (Note that in comparing the "technique = 20" team to the "technique = 1" teams, you could average across all the "technique = 1" teams, as they are set up exactly the same).
Have you ever done similar tests for other attributes? It would be very interesting to see the results.
The findings you have made regarding flair are not that surprising to me, but the findings regarding technique are genuinely bizarre.
- Flair does not have a weight in a player's current ability (CA); therefore, it makes sense that it may have positive effects in some cases and negative effects in others. From what I've understood of game manuals over the years, flair is supposed to make players try more unexpected and harder moves, which have higher likelihood of success the more technically proficient players are. It is perhaps a bit surprising that an increase in flair was not helpful with Man City players, but overall it makes sense that more flair does not increase performance in a clear-cut fashion.
- Technique does have a weight in a player's current ability, and all the descriptions I have ever seen of the attribute through the years would indicate that higher technique should have a clear net positive on player's performance. If your test results generalize, this would seem like a clear case of SI not properly testing how the attributes work in the game's match engine. The only rationalization I can come up with for the results you are finding is that players with higher technique try harder moves, but those moves are generally worse than trying simpler, less technical moves (e.g., moves based on pace and acceleration) even when players have high technique. This would suggest that perhaps not only higher technique is not giving sufficient boost but also that the "decisions" attribute may not be working properly (as most tests have found so far, decisions provides a unrealistic small boost to players (in some tests, higher decisions even seems associated with a reduction in performance!!)).
Even at 9600 runs, with the level of uncertainty in FM, you are bound to still have meaningful uncertainty about the effect of small tweaks. Also, the tactics at the very top of the list are more likely than not to be the ones that had random variation working in their favor along the way.
I have a question for the top tactic makers: why are you convinced that having goalkeepers with PI “tackle harder” is best?? 🤣
Given the amount of uncertainty (“RNG”) in tactic testing in FM and the few occasions in game that a keeper would perform a tackle, i highly doubt that any tests would be able to accurately detect whether GK with tackle harder is better than without it…. I suspect everyone just uses it because top tactics use tackle harder in all other positions, so why not for gks too. But maybe there is more to it that I haven’t seen 😄
This removes my objection... I am still having trouble believing in some of the results (just like the results in the other FM Arena testing - https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/), but I don't have an alternative theory that can explain them at the moment.
Thank you so much for all the great work! It is great that you have bothered to do all these tests so we can know more about which attributes are more useful in the game! This is all greatly appreciated!
However, I do have one question which, depending on your answer, may explain why you are finding that some of the attributes have a negative impact on performance (e.g., technique): - How are you dealing with the current ability (CA) of players not being the same after you raise (or lower) one (multiple) of the attributes? -> When you set all players' attributes to 10, their CA needs to be set to a certain level such that the attributes remain stable... when you change one of the attributes to 20 (100 in the "centi-attributes" that the game actually uses and that you can see in the save game editor), you need a higher CA amount for the attributes to remain stable (and this higher CA amount will depend on the player's position given that, for example, finishing has a larger CA weight for forwards than for defenders). Otherwise, the game will lower attributes across the board so that the player's CA remains the same... -> This means that if you are running a league for your tests that takes any amount of game time and you don't either (1) make sure that the player's CA is what is needed to maintain the attributes you set initially or (2) have some mechanism to ensure that the player's attributes remain frozen (it is my understanding that some save game editors may be able to do this), then the game will be changing other attributes to compensate for the attribute that you maxed out (or set to 1). -> This would mean that when, for example, you set technique to 20, other attributes are lowered below 10 to compensate (you may not always be able to see this when attributes are represented 1-20 in-game, but this may still be happening under the hood in the attributes represented 1-100 which you can see in savegame editors). -> If you are not accounting for this attribute re-balancing, then your finding that technique has a negative impact on goal difference in your test may not mean that technique literally has a negative impact on player performance, but rather that setting technique to 20 is not worth the reduction in other attributes that it causes...
Anyway, I would be interested in knowing how you dealt with attribute re-balancing due to the player's CA in your tests.
------------------- In addition, I'd like to suggest that you also try testing "aggression" and "leadership." Both may have some influence in performance. Aggression may interact with certain attributes, such as tackling or bravery.
Also could be interesting if you tested the important matches attribute (having in mind that the influence of this attribute depends on how important the match is - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECe0ygapG-8&t=1404s)
I think how poorly my formation did on this test and yet I still managed to reach the final of the Europa League with Sporting shows how easy FM 24 is as long as one is in the vicinity of the META settings. Enjoy the game lads!
In addition to the 424 formation I posted in another thread, I had also created a 343 formation with similar settings and achieved very good success with Sporting CP in second season (albeit not as much as with 424). Won the league with 92 points (just 2 draws and 2 losses), and reached the final of the Europa League, only losing on penalties to Villa. Also, was second in the league stage of the Europa League. I don't think the team is much stronger than the initial Sporting squad, as I had to sell several players early in the first season when I didn't know yet how to deal with unhappy players.
The full list of the player individual instructions is below:
GK Sweeper keeper defend DCR Ball playing defender defend; stay wider, tackle harder; take more risks, hold position DC Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position DCL Ball playing defender defend; stay wider, tackle harder; take more risks, hold position WBR Wing-back support; cross more often, cross from byline, Stay wider, Tackle harder; Get further forward WBL Wing-back support; cross more often, cross from byline, Stay wider, Tackle harder; Get further forward MCR Midfield central support; take more risks, tackle harder MCL Midfield central support; take more risks, tackle harder AMR Inside forward support; sit narrower, tackle harder, mark specific position; take more risks, cross less often, dribble more, cut inside with ball, get further forward AML Inside forward support; sit narrower, tackle harder, mark specific position; take more risks, cross less often, dribble more, cut inside with ball, get further forward FC Advanced forward attack; dribble more, tackle harder; move into channels
In developing my tactic, I started from the META settings you can find in most of the top tactics of the FM Arena list and made several changes that aim to improve my appreciation of the football I see my team playing, as well as, in some cases, improve the realism of how a team would play in the real world. I explain the logic of most of these changes in my 424 post, which you see here https://fm-arena.com/thread/13547-424-attacking-great-sucess-in-the-portuguese-league-and-champions-league-with-sporting-cp/. In addition to what I discuss in that post, I would highlight:
- Central midfielders: Most 343 formations I see on FM Arena use 2 DMs. It is more logical to me that the midfielders on a team that plays in 343 would be central midfielders rather than defensive midfielders. I think the success of my formation shows that using MCs is completely playable. - Side attacking midfielders: Unlike when I play in 424, when playing in 343 I think it makes sense for the "wingers" to be "inside forwards" because with only one forward it makes more sense for the "wingers" to get into the area. I still like them to have "support" mentality for better interlinking.
Looking forward to see how my tactic fares in FM Arena testing!
The attached formation gave me great success with Sporting CP in the second season. Completely dominated the Portuguese league (just one draw and one loss) and made it to the semifinals of the Champions League, losing only to Bayern on extra time, after winning the Champions League group stage. My team is perhaps a bit improved relatively to the initial Sporting squad, but not substantially so, as some of the new players come at the expense of having had to sell several good players (e.g., Inacio, Morita, Edwards). I do think that my tactic plays a massive role in the success of my team.
The full list of the player individual instructions is below:
GK Sweeper Keeper defend DR Wing-back attack; cross more often, stay wider, tackle harder; cross from byline, get further forward DCR Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position DCL Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position DL Wing-back attack; cross more often, stay wider, tackle harder; cross from byline, get further forward DMCR Defensive midfielder support; take more risks, tackle harder DMCL Defensive midfielder support; take more risks, tackle harder AMR Inverted winger support; take more risks, cross less often, sit narrower, close down more, tackle more, mark specific position; dribble more, cut inside with ball AML Inverted winger support; take more risks, cross less often, sit narrower, close down more, tackle more, mark specific position; dribble more, cut inside with ball FCR Pressing forward attack; dribble more; move into channels, close down more, tackle harder FCL Pressing forward attack; dribble more; move into channels, close down more, tackle harder
In developing my tactic, I started from the META settings you can find in most of 424 formations at the top of FM Arena list and made several changes that aim to improve my appreciation of the football I see my team playing, as well as, in some cases, improve the realism of how a team would play in the real world. Specifically: - Tempo: I play with "slightly higher tempo" rather than "higher tempo" largely because I do not like to watch my team play in "higher tempo"... Way too many rash shots. From what I understand, the guy that won the FM "world championship" plays with "slightly higher tempo," so it should be playable (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQebnrOMS9w&ab_channel=Zealand). - Width: I play with width at the middle setting because playing in narrow or fairly narrow seems quite unrealistic to me for an attacking team playing with two wingers. - Side defenders: I play my side defenders as "wing-backs" rather than as "full-backs". Given the level of attack expected, that role makes more sense to me. - Ball playing center backs: I do not use the "run with ball" setting. When you play with it, the center backs run way too much with the ball, which is quite unrealistic IMO. - Defensive midfielders: I do not like to have them in hold position, as I like to see them help create in the final third. Also, I like to have them play with take more risks like a deep lying midfielder (I do not like using the deep lying midfielder role because that implies restricting their shooting). - Side attacking midfielders: When playing with two center forwards, I like playing my side attacking midfielders as "inverted wingers" rather than "inside forwards" so as to not crowd the area more. I want them to create for forwards rather than occupy the same area. For similar reasons, I like to play them with support rather than attack mentality. Similar to defensive midfielders, I do not use the "advanced playmaker" role because it implies limiting shooting. But I do set my inverted wingers to take more risks. I do not set them with "hold up ball" because I do not want them to slow down. - Center forwards: In the previous season I was playing them as "advanced forwards." But I figured, if the META in FM 24 is to press everywhere, may as well play the center forwards as pressing forwards. I set them in attack so that they play pretty similarly to an advanced forward when in possession. I set to dribble with the ball more because I like to see forwards create for themselves. (I should say that I am a bit disappointed by the lack of assists from my center forwards, and may change them to deep lying forwards in my next season to see how it works.) - Roaming: I do not like roaming. I like to see an organized team with players showing up in their respective areas and so that all spaces are occupied (like Pep or Ruben Amorim play in real life). - "Symmetry": From a squad management perspective, I prefer to have symmetry in the settings of my central positions, so that all players for those positions can be used interchangeably with no "role familiarity" penalty.
Looking forward to see how my tactic fares in FM Arena testing!
Does anyone know where the custom views that one can create within the game are stored? They work seamlessly from savegame to savegame, so they must be stored somewhere, but I can't figure out where...
I have gotten a new computer and wanted to transfer my custom views. I know I can export each of them one-by-one, but I have created several dozens of them in different screens and feel there must be an easier way.
In addition to the 424 formation I posted in another thread, I had also created a 343 formation with similar settings and achieved very good success with Sporting CP in second season (albeit not as much as with 424). Won the league with 92 points (just 2 draws and 2 losses), and reached the final of the Europa League, only losing on penalties to Villa. Also, was second in the league stage of the Europa League. I don't think the team is much stronger than the initial Sporting squad, as I had to sell several players early in the first season when I didn't know yet how to deal with unhappy players.
The full list of the player individual instructions is below:
GK Sweeper keeper defend DCR Ball playing defender defend; stay wider, tackle harder; take more risks, hold position DC Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position DCL Ball playing defender defend; stay wider, tackle harder; take more risks, hold position WBR Wing-back support; cross more often, cross from byline, Stay wider, Tackle harder; Get further forward WBL Wing-back support; cross more often, cross from byline, Stay wider, Tackle harder; Get further forward MCR Midfield central support; take more risks, tackle harder MCL Midfield central support; take more risks, tackle harder AMR Inside forward support; sit narrower, tackle harder, mark specific position; take more risks, cross less often, dribble more, cut inside with ball, get further forward AML Inside forward support; sit narrower, tackle harder, mark specific position; take more risks, cross less often, dribble more, cut inside with ball, get further forward FC Advanced forward attack; dribble more, tackle harder; move into channels
In developing my tactic, I started from the META settings you can find in most of the top tactics of the FM Arena list and made several changes that aim to improve my appreciation of the football I see my team playing, as well as, in some cases, improve the realism of how a team would play in the real world. I explain the logic of most of these changes in my 424 post, which you see here https://fm-arena.com/thread/13547-424-attacking-great-sucess-in-the-portuguese-league-and-champions-league-with-sporting-cp/. In addition to what I discuss in that post, I would highlight:
- Central midfielders: Most 343 formations I see on FM Arena use 2 DMs. It is more logical to me that the midfielders on a team that plays in 343 would be central midfielders rather than defensive midfielders. I think the success of my formation shows that using MCs is completely playable. - Side attacking midfielders: Unlike when I play in 424, when playing in 343 I think it makes sense for the "wingers" to be "inside forwards" because with only one forward it makes more sense for the "wingers" to get into the area. I still like them to have "support" mentality for better interlinking.
Looking forward to see how my tactic fares in FM Arena testing!
The attached formation gave me great success with Sporting CP in the second season. Completely dominated the Portuguese league (just one draw and one loss) and made it to the semifinals of the Champions League, losing only to Bayern on extra time, after winning the Champions League group stage. My team is perhaps a bit improved relatively to the initial Sporting squad, but not substantially so, as some of the new players come at the expense of having had to sell several good players (e.g., Inacio, Morita, Edwards). I do think that my tactic plays a massive role in the success of my team.
The full list of the player individual instructions is below:
GK Sweeper Keeper defend DR Wing-back attack; cross more often, stay wider, tackle harder; cross from byline, get further forward DCR Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position DCL Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position DL Wing-back attack; cross more often, stay wider, tackle harder; cross from byline, get further forward DMCR Defensive midfielder support; take more risks, tackle harder DMCL Defensive midfielder support; take more risks, tackle harder AMR Inverted winger support; take more risks, cross less often, sit narrower, close down more, tackle more, mark specific position; dribble more, cut inside with ball AML Inverted winger support; take more risks, cross less often, sit narrower, close down more, tackle more, mark specific position; dribble more, cut inside with ball FCR Pressing forward attack; dribble more; move into channels, close down more, tackle harder FCL Pressing forward attack; dribble more; move into channels, close down more, tackle harder
In developing my tactic, I started from the META settings you can find in most of 424 formations at the top of FM Arena list and made several changes that aim to improve my appreciation of the football I see my team playing, as well as, in some cases, improve the realism of how a team would play in the real world. Specifically: - Tempo: I play with "slightly higher tempo" rather than "higher tempo" largely because I do not like to watch my team play in "higher tempo"... Way too many rash shots. From what I understand, the guy that won the FM "world championship" plays with "slightly higher tempo," so it should be playable (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQebnrOMS9w&ab_channel=Zealand). - Width: I play with width at the middle setting because playing in narrow or fairly narrow seems quite unrealistic to me for an attacking team playing with two wingers. - Side defenders: I play my side defenders as "wing-backs" rather than as "full-backs". Given the level of attack expected, that role makes more sense to me. - Ball playing center backs: I do not use the "run with ball" setting. When you play with it, the center backs run way too much with the ball, which is quite unrealistic IMO. - Defensive midfielders: I do not like to have them in hold position, as I like to see them help create in the final third. Also, I like to have them play with take more risks like a deep lying midfielder (I do not like using the deep lying midfielder role because that implies restricting their shooting). - Side attacking midfielders: When playing with two center forwards, I like playing my side attacking midfielders as "inverted wingers" rather than "inside forwards" so as to not crowd the area more. I want them to create for forwards rather than occupy the same area. For similar reasons, I like to play them with support rather than attack mentality. Similar to defensive midfielders, I do not use the "advanced playmaker" role because it implies limiting shooting. But I do set my inverted wingers to take more risks. I do not set them with "hold up ball" because I do not want them to slow down. - Center forwards: In the previous season I was playing them as "advanced forwards." But I figured, if the META in FM 24 is to press everywhere, may as well play the center forwards as pressing forwards. I set them in attack so that they play pretty similarly to an advanced forward when in possession. I set to dribble with the ball more because I like to see forwards create for themselves. (I should say that I am a bit disappointed by the lack of assists from my center forwards, and may change them to deep lying forwards in my next season to see how it works.) - Roaming: I do not like roaming. I like to see an organized team with players showing up in their respective areas and so that all spaces are occupied (like Pep or Ruben Amorim play in real life). - "Symmetry": From a squad management perspective, I prefer to have symmetry in the settings of my central positions, so that all players for those positions can be used interchangeably with no "role familiarity" penalty.
Looking forward to see how my tactic fares in FM Arena testing!
If you pick players into a mentoring group, the game provides you with a classification of whether the players will be influencing others or be influenced, which in both cases can be significant, average, low, or none. Generally, players with higher influence in your team hierarchy (which tend to be older players) have higher influence as mentors and younger players tend to be more influenceable.
EBFM has a video testing mentoring where he finds that in mentoring groups with 1 mentor and 10 mentees, mentoring has almost no effect. He interprets this to mean that large mentoring groups don’t work. I don’t think this is fully accurate. I generally use just one large mentoring group in my first team, and the mental attributes of mentees progress. But my big mentoring group includes several older mentors and several younger mentees, close to a one to one ratio.
I initially assumed that the game calculated an average of the mental attributes across the players with influence and move the mentees mental attributes smoothly in that direction… but that does not seem to be how it works, as i recently had a player in a mentoring group lose determination due to mentoring although all high influence playera in the group had higher determination than him. My new theory is that, every so often, the game randomly picks one of the players in the mentoring group to influence another player, where players with higher influence have higher odds of being picked (but even players with low influence can sometimes influence another player despite there being more influent players in the group).
In picking who to include as a player that influences others, i mostly focus on determination and professionalism (which can be gathered from some personality types). If i have a young player already with a good personality, i do not put him in the mentoring group as he could have more to lose than to gain from mentoring.
Hope my observations help you think about a mentoring strategy.
To minimize fatigue increase, I almost always do four substitutions at half time and prioritize taking players with low condition, that have "low" fatigue instead of being "fresh" (I include a fatigue column in my match day tactics screen), and/or that have seen a yellow card. In games I'm ahead by at least two or against weak opponents, I always do the four subs at half time. In harder games that I'm not winning, I may prioritize the relative quality of the player going out and the player coming in a bit in selecting who to take out vs. the factors I mention above. But only if I'm not winning and I do not have four good enough players in the bench would I not make four subs at half time.
This approach is not super realistic, but in real life I think coaches perceive a bigger difference between their starting eleven and their subs than is generally the case in my FM teams.
I keep the other substitution for potential second-half injuries and, if not used yet, I usually spend it around the 80th minute.
Regarding the original question, from a starting point close to the META tactics, I do the following to increase possession and lower intensity: In possession -> no pass into space, no run at defense, slightly lower tempo, waste time sometimes. In transition -> slow pace down; no counter attack Out of possession -> medium defensive line; mid block; medium pressing; no prevent short keeper distribution; no get stuck in; no step up more. Then, I take out tackle harder from everyone's individual instructions, take the cross more often and from byline from wingbacks; and take out take more risks from everyone except the inside forwards.
I usually switch to this formation when I'm comfortably ahead and have another important game coming in less than a week. This is effective at lowering the loss of condition and seems decent at controlling possession... I can't say though that it is effective at increasing my leads. I feel that I suffer a goal about as often as I score another.
Would be interested of others thoughts on the META approach to low intensity football to close out games.
I certainly have not done any tests of this issue and have no SI connections, but my assumption has been that the effect of the bonuses operates fully through morale. Two pieces of reasoning for this conjecture:
1 - Players that care a lot about the bonuses (seems to be player's with high ambition?) get a morale boost every so often while mentioning the prospect of the bonus.
2 - I'm sure that SI seeks parsimony in coding the game and minimizing the number of variables that need to be thrown into the match engine. If the effect of the bonuses can logically be subsumed into morale, it would make sense to not add another variable to the mix.
I'd be very curious to understand the dynamic procedure you use to decide how many simulation runs to apply for each tactic. (Maybe this has already been explained in some post, in which case I'd greatly appreciate a link!)
Also, curious about what the up and down arrows regarding the number of points in the tactic testing exactly mean. Do they reflect a confidence interval (e.g., 95%?) for the mean points resulting from the tactic?
Thank you!
Marco
Have you ever done similar tests for other attributes? It would be very interesting to see the results.
- Flair does not have a weight in a player's current ability (CA); therefore, it makes sense that it may have positive effects in some cases and negative effects in others. From what I've understood of game manuals over the years, flair is supposed to make players try more unexpected and harder moves, which have higher likelihood of success the more technically proficient players are. It is perhaps a bit surprising that an increase in flair was not helpful with Man City players, but overall it makes sense that more flair does not increase performance in a clear-cut fashion.
- Technique does have a weight in a player's current ability, and all the descriptions I have ever seen of the attribute through the years would indicate that higher technique should have a clear net positive on player's performance. If your test results generalize, this would seem like a clear case of SI not properly testing how the attributes work in the game's match engine. The only rationalization I can come up with for the results you are finding is that players with higher technique try harder moves, but those moves are generally worse than trying simpler, less technical moves (e.g., moves based on pace and acceleration) even when players have high technique. This would suggest that perhaps not only higher technique is not giving sufficient boost but also that the "decisions" attribute may not be working properly (as most tests have found so far, decisions provides a unrealistic small boost to players (in some tests, higher decisions even seems associated with a reduction in performance!!)).
Given the amount of uncertainty (“RNG”) in tactic testing in FM and the few occasions in game that a keeper would perform a tackle, i highly doubt that any tests would be able to accurately detect whether GK with tackle harder is better than without it…. I suspect everyone just uses it because top tactics use tackle harder in all other positions, so why not for gks too. But maybe there is more to it that I haven’t seen 😄
This removes my objection... I am still having trouble believing in some of the results (just like the results in the other FM Arena testing - https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/), but I don't have an alternative theory that can explain them at the moment.
Thank you so much for all the great work! It is great that you have bothered to do all these tests so we can know more about which attributes are more useful in the game! This is all greatly appreciated!
However, I do have one question which, depending on your answer, may explain why you are finding that some of the attributes have a negative impact on performance (e.g., technique):
- How are you dealing with the current ability (CA) of players not being the same after you raise (or lower) one (multiple) of the attributes?
-> When you set all players' attributes to 10, their CA needs to be set to a certain level such that the attributes remain stable... when you change one of the attributes to 20 (100 in the "centi-attributes" that the game actually uses and that you can see in the save game editor), you need a higher CA amount for the attributes to remain stable (and this higher CA amount will depend on the player's position given that, for example, finishing has a larger CA weight for forwards than for defenders). Otherwise, the game will lower attributes across the board so that the player's CA remains the same...
-> This means that if you are running a league for your tests that takes any amount of game time and you don't either (1) make sure that the player's CA is what is needed to maintain the attributes you set initially or (2) have some mechanism to ensure that the player's attributes remain frozen (it is my understanding that some save game editors may be able to do this), then the game will be changing other attributes to compensate for the attribute that you maxed out (or set to 1).
-> This would mean that when, for example, you set technique to 20, other attributes are lowered below 10 to compensate (you may not always be able to see this when attributes are represented 1-20 in-game, but this may still be happening under the hood in the attributes represented 1-100 which you can see in savegame editors).
-> If you are not accounting for this attribute re-balancing, then your finding that technique has a negative impact on goal difference in your test may not mean that technique literally has a negative impact on player performance, but rather that setting technique to 20 is not worth the reduction in other attributes that it causes...
Anyway, I would be interested in knowing how you dealt with attribute re-balancing due to the player's CA in your tests.
-------------------
In addition, I'd like to suggest that you also try testing "aggression" and "leadership." Both may have some influence in performance. Aggression may interact with certain attributes, such as tackling or bravery.
Also could be interesting if you tested the important matches attribute (having in mind that the influence of this attribute depends on how important the match is - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECe0ygapG-8&t=1404s)
In addition to the 424 formation I posted in another thread, I had also created a 343 formation with similar settings and achieved very good success with Sporting CP in second season (albeit not as much as with 424). Won the league with 92 points (just 2 draws and 2 losses), and reached the final of the Europa League, only losing on penalties to Villa. Also, was second in the league stage of the Europa League. I don't think the team is much stronger than the initial Sporting squad, as I had to sell several players early in the first season when I didn't know yet how to deal with unhappy players.
The full list of the player individual instructions is below:
GK Sweeper keeper defend
DCR Ball playing defender defend; stay wider, tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
DC Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
DCL Ball playing defender defend; stay wider, tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
WBR Wing-back support; cross more often, cross from byline, Stay wider, Tackle harder; Get further forward
WBL Wing-back support; cross more often, cross from byline, Stay wider, Tackle harder; Get further forward
MCR Midfield central support; take more risks, tackle harder
MCL Midfield central support; take more risks, tackle harder
AMR Inside forward support; sit narrower, tackle harder, mark specific position; take more risks, cross less often, dribble more, cut inside with ball, get further forward
AML Inside forward support; sit narrower, tackle harder, mark specific position; take more risks, cross less often, dribble more, cut inside with ball, get further forward
FC Advanced forward attack; dribble more, tackle harder; move into channels
In developing my tactic, I started from the META settings you can find in most of the top tactics of the FM Arena list and made several changes that aim to improve my appreciation of the football I see my team playing, as well as, in some cases, improve the realism of how a team would play in the real world. I explain the logic of most of these changes in my 424 post, which you see here https://fm-arena.com/thread/13547-424-attacking-great-sucess-in-the-portuguese-league-and-champions-league-with-sporting-cp/. In addition to what I discuss in that post, I would highlight:
- Central midfielders: Most 343 formations I see on FM Arena use 2 DMs. It is more logical to me that the midfielders on a team that plays in 343 would be central midfielders rather than defensive midfielders. I think the success of my formation shows that using MCs is completely playable.
- Side attacking midfielders: Unlike when I play in 424, when playing in 343 I think it makes sense for the "wingers" to be "inside forwards" because with only one forward it makes more sense for the "wingers" to get into the area. I still like them to have "support" mentality for better interlinking.
Looking forward to see how my tactic fares in FM Arena testing!
The attached formation gave me great success with Sporting CP in the second season. Completely dominated the Portuguese league (just one draw and one loss) and made it to the semifinals of the Champions League, losing only to Bayern on extra time, after winning the Champions League group stage. My team is perhaps a bit improved relatively to the initial Sporting squad, but not substantially so, as some of the new players come at the expense of having had to sell several good players (e.g., Inacio, Morita, Edwards). I do think that my tactic plays a massive role in the success of my team.
The full list of the player individual instructions is below:
GK Sweeper Keeper defend
DR Wing-back attack; cross more often, stay wider, tackle harder; cross from byline, get further forward
DCR Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
DCL Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
DL Wing-back attack; cross more often, stay wider, tackle harder; cross from byline, get further forward
DMCR Defensive midfielder support; take more risks, tackle harder
DMCL Defensive midfielder support; take more risks, tackle harder
AMR Inverted winger support; take more risks, cross less often, sit narrower, close down more, tackle more, mark specific position; dribble more, cut inside with ball
AML Inverted winger support; take more risks, cross less often, sit narrower, close down more, tackle more, mark specific position; dribble more, cut inside with ball
FCR Pressing forward attack; dribble more; move into channels, close down more, tackle harder
FCL Pressing forward attack; dribble more; move into channels, close down more, tackle harder
In developing my tactic, I started from the META settings you can find in most of 424 formations at the top of FM Arena list and made several changes that aim to improve my appreciation of the football I see my team playing, as well as, in some cases, improve the realism of how a team would play in the real world. Specifically:
- Tempo: I play with "slightly higher tempo" rather than "higher tempo" largely because I do not like to watch my team play in "higher tempo"... Way too many rash shots. From what I understand, the guy that won the FM "world championship" plays with "slightly higher tempo," so it should be playable (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQebnrOMS9w&ab_channel=Zealand).
- Width: I play with width at the middle setting because playing in narrow or fairly narrow seems quite unrealistic to me for an attacking team playing with two wingers.
- Side defenders: I play my side defenders as "wing-backs" rather than as "full-backs". Given the level of attack expected, that role makes more sense to me.
- Ball playing center backs: I do not use the "run with ball" setting. When you play with it, the center backs run way too much with the ball, which is quite unrealistic IMO.
- Defensive midfielders: I do not like to have them in hold position, as I like to see them help create in the final third. Also, I like to have them play with take more risks like a deep lying midfielder (I do not like using the deep lying midfielder role because that implies restricting their shooting).
- Side attacking midfielders: When playing with two center forwards, I like playing my side attacking midfielders as "inverted wingers" rather than "inside forwards" so as to not crowd the area more. I want them to create for forwards rather than occupy the same area. For similar reasons, I like to play them with support rather than attack mentality. Similar to defensive midfielders, I do not use the "advanced playmaker" role because it implies limiting shooting. But I do set my inverted wingers to take more risks. I do not set them with "hold up ball" because I do not want them to slow down.
- Center forwards: In the previous season I was playing them as "advanced forwards." But I figured, if the META in FM 24 is to press everywhere, may as well play the center forwards as pressing forwards. I set them in attack so that they play pretty similarly to an advanced forward when in possession. I set to dribble with the ball more because I like to see forwards create for themselves. (I should say that I am a bit disappointed by the lack of assists from my center forwards, and may change them to deep lying forwards in my next season to see how it works.)
- Roaming: I do not like roaming. I like to see an organized team with players showing up in their respective areas and so that all spaces are occupied (like Pep or Ruben Amorim play in real life).
- "Symmetry": From a squad management perspective, I prefer to have symmetry in the settings of my central positions, so that all players for those positions can be used interchangeably with no "role familiarity" penalty.
Looking forward to see how my tactic fares in FM Arena testing!
I have gotten a new computer and wanted to transfer my custom views. I know I can export each of them one-by-one, but I have created several dozens of them in different screens and feel there must be an easier way.
In addition to the 424 formation I posted in another thread, I had also created a 343 formation with similar settings and achieved very good success with Sporting CP in second season (albeit not as much as with 424). Won the league with 92 points (just 2 draws and 2 losses), and reached the final of the Europa League, only losing on penalties to Villa. Also, was second in the league stage of the Europa League. I don't think the team is much stronger than the initial Sporting squad, as I had to sell several players early in the first season when I didn't know yet how to deal with unhappy players.
The full list of the player individual instructions is below:
GK Sweeper keeper defend
DCR Ball playing defender defend; stay wider, tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
DC Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
DCL Ball playing defender defend; stay wider, tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
WBR Wing-back support; cross more often, cross from byline, Stay wider, Tackle harder; Get further forward
WBL Wing-back support; cross more often, cross from byline, Stay wider, Tackle harder; Get further forward
MCR Midfield central support; take more risks, tackle harder
MCL Midfield central support; take more risks, tackle harder
AMR Inside forward support; sit narrower, tackle harder, mark specific position; take more risks, cross less often, dribble more, cut inside with ball, get further forward
AML Inside forward support; sit narrower, tackle harder, mark specific position; take more risks, cross less often, dribble more, cut inside with ball, get further forward
FC Advanced forward attack; dribble more, tackle harder; move into channels
In developing my tactic, I started from the META settings you can find in most of the top tactics of the FM Arena list and made several changes that aim to improve my appreciation of the football I see my team playing, as well as, in some cases, improve the realism of how a team would play in the real world. I explain the logic of most of these changes in my 424 post, which you see here https://fm-arena.com/thread/13547-424-attacking-great-sucess-in-the-portuguese-league-and-champions-league-with-sporting-cp/. In addition to what I discuss in that post, I would highlight:
- Central midfielders: Most 343 formations I see on FM Arena use 2 DMs. It is more logical to me that the midfielders on a team that plays in 343 would be central midfielders rather than defensive midfielders. I think the success of my formation shows that using MCs is completely playable.
- Side attacking midfielders: Unlike when I play in 424, when playing in 343 I think it makes sense for the "wingers" to be "inside forwards" because with only one forward it makes more sense for the "wingers" to get into the area. I still like them to have "support" mentality for better interlinking.
Looking forward to see how my tactic fares in FM Arena testing!
The attached formation gave me great success with Sporting CP in the second season. Completely dominated the Portuguese league (just one draw and one loss) and made it to the semifinals of the Champions League, losing only to Bayern on extra time, after winning the Champions League group stage. My team is perhaps a bit improved relatively to the initial Sporting squad, but not substantially so, as some of the new players come at the expense of having had to sell several good players (e.g., Inacio, Morita, Edwards). I do think that my tactic plays a massive role in the success of my team.
The full list of the player individual instructions is below:
GK Sweeper Keeper defend
DR Wing-back attack; cross more often, stay wider, tackle harder; cross from byline, get further forward
DCR Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
DCL Ball playing defender defend; tackle harder; take more risks, hold position
DL Wing-back attack; cross more often, stay wider, tackle harder; cross from byline, get further forward
DMCR Defensive midfielder support; take more risks, tackle harder
DMCL Defensive midfielder support; take more risks, tackle harder
AMR Inverted winger support; take more risks, cross less often, sit narrower, close down more, tackle more, mark specific position; dribble more, cut inside with ball
AML Inverted winger support; take more risks, cross less often, sit narrower, close down more, tackle more, mark specific position; dribble more, cut inside with ball
FCR Pressing forward attack; dribble more; move into channels, close down more, tackle harder
FCL Pressing forward attack; dribble more; move into channels, close down more, tackle harder
In developing my tactic, I started from the META settings you can find in most of 424 formations at the top of FM Arena list and made several changes that aim to improve my appreciation of the football I see my team playing, as well as, in some cases, improve the realism of how a team would play in the real world. Specifically:
- Tempo: I play with "slightly higher tempo" rather than "higher tempo" largely because I do not like to watch my team play in "higher tempo"... Way too many rash shots. From what I understand, the guy that won the FM "world championship" plays with "slightly higher tempo," so it should be playable (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQebnrOMS9w&ab_channel=Zealand).
- Width: I play with width at the middle setting because playing in narrow or fairly narrow seems quite unrealistic to me for an attacking team playing with two wingers.
- Side defenders: I play my side defenders as "wing-backs" rather than as "full-backs". Given the level of attack expected, that role makes more sense to me.
- Ball playing center backs: I do not use the "run with ball" setting. When you play with it, the center backs run way too much with the ball, which is quite unrealistic IMO.
- Defensive midfielders: I do not like to have them in hold position, as I like to see them help create in the final third. Also, I like to have them play with take more risks like a deep lying midfielder (I do not like using the deep lying midfielder role because that implies restricting their shooting).
- Side attacking midfielders: When playing with two center forwards, I like playing my side attacking midfielders as "inverted wingers" rather than "inside forwards" so as to not crowd the area more. I want them to create for forwards rather than occupy the same area. For similar reasons, I like to play them with support rather than attack mentality. Similar to defensive midfielders, I do not use the "advanced playmaker" role because it implies limiting shooting. But I do set my inverted wingers to take more risks. I do not set them with "hold up ball" because I do not want them to slow down.
- Center forwards: In the previous season I was playing them as "advanced forwards." But I figured, if the META in FM 24 is to press everywhere, may as well play the center forwards as pressing forwards. I set them in attack so that they play pretty similarly to an advanced forward when in possession. I set to dribble with the ball more because I like to see forwards create for themselves. (I should say that I am a bit disappointed by the lack of assists from my center forwards, and may change them to deep lying forwards in my next season to see how it works.)
- Roaming: I do not like roaming. I like to see an organized team with players showing up in their respective areas and so that all spaces are occupied (like Pep or Ruben Amorim play in real life).
- "Symmetry": From a squad management perspective, I prefer to have symmetry in the settings of my central positions, so that all players for those positions can be used interchangeably with no "role familiarity" penalty.
Looking forward to see how my tactic fares in FM Arena testing!
EBFM has a video testing mentoring where he finds that in mentoring groups with 1 mentor and 10 mentees, mentoring has almost no effect. He interprets this to mean that large mentoring groups don’t work. I don’t think this is fully accurate. I generally use just one large mentoring group in my first team, and the mental attributes of mentees progress. But my big mentoring group includes several older mentors and several younger mentees, close to a one to one ratio.
I initially assumed that the game calculated an average of the mental attributes across the players with influence and move the mentees mental attributes smoothly in that direction… but that does not seem to be how it works, as i recently had a player in a mentoring group lose determination due to mentoring although all high influence playera in the group had higher determination than him. My new theory is that, every so often, the game randomly picks one of the players in the mentoring group to influence another player, where players with higher influence have higher odds of being picked (but even players with low influence can sometimes influence another player despite there being more influent players in the group).
In picking who to include as a player that influences others, i mostly focus on determination and professionalism (which can be gathered from some personality types). If i have a young player already with a good personality, i do not put him in the mentoring group as he could have more to lose than to gain from mentoring.
Hope my observations help you think about a mentoring strategy.
This approach is not super realistic, but in real life I think coaches perceive a bigger difference between their starting eleven and their subs than is generally the case in my FM teams.
I keep the other substitution for potential second-half injuries and, if not used yet, I usually spend it around the 80th minute.
In possession -> no pass into space, no run at defense, slightly lower tempo, waste time sometimes.
In transition -> slow pace down; no counter attack
Out of possession -> medium defensive line; mid block; medium pressing; no prevent short keeper distribution; no get stuck in; no step up more.
Then, I take out tackle harder from everyone's individual instructions, take the cross more often and from byline from wingbacks; and take out take more risks from everyone except the inside forwards.
I usually switch to this formation when I'm comfortably ahead and have another important game coming in less than a week. This is effective at lowering the loss of condition and seems decent at controlling possession... I can't say though that it is effective at increasing my leads. I feel that I suffer a goal about as often as I score another.
Would be interested of others thoughts on the META approach to low intensity football to close out games.
1 - Players that care a lot about the bonuses (seems to be player's with high ambition?) get a morale boost every so often while mentioning the prospect of the bonus.
2 - I'm sure that SI seeks parsimony in coding the game and minimizing the number of variables that need to be thrown into the match engine. If the effect of the bonuses can logically be subsumed into morale, it would make sense to not add another variable to the mix.