OpticFawn said: Can you do this against your max performance rating as I found that to be the best, I just removed injury proneness as I don’t require imo
I did 10 season test on fc Metz and that one out preformed the newest file set but might be some rng possibly please test. Expand FM24 Pure Performance results:
5th*, 6th*, 8th*, 6th, 4th, 10th = 6.5 average
Asterisked results are where I forgot to set injury proneness to 1 as control
Premier League 1.0 results:
6th, 9th, 7th = 7.33 average
I also tried a few alternative tactics with one of these squads, to see if something does better than the Knap EF 424 IF HP V2 P101 AC tactic I use. The first few did worse, but 424 Classic v164 got 3rd, 3rd, 9th, 5th. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but I'll be taking a closer look at it.
Exellent said: You were absolutely right, it was discovered in the new thread that Genie Scout indeed has bugs. For example, the higher the height, the higher the rating. Expand The thing is, that program isn't actually Genie Scout as far as I can tell..
The bug he encountered is valid though, but also it may be that he hasn't taken into account footedness and position proficiency which is the more likely cause if not ruled out.
I can't take credit for finding Genie Scout is bugged, LightningFlik clued me onto this.
Using the weights in the above post, I've done testing of my Genie Scout weights vs. Orion's weights.
I think it's the first time a results-based comparison of the Genie Scout rating files has been attempted.
Method:
- Luton in Premier League - Remove all players - Filter in Genie Scout for CA-PA gap of 0-3 and current reputation 0-6000 and green proficiency in relevant position - Take top 3-4 in each position - Move them to Luton - Change age, personality, natural fitness, consistency, important matches, nationality, height, weight, etc. so that there is control where there needs to be - Position proficiency is deliberately *not* controlled (this has pros and cons) - One season with Knap tactic and Blue routines (Premier League, FA Cup & Carabao Cup @ full detail)
Extra info:
Player overlap - 13 of 27 players Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 18/18/19/15 Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 18/18/19/13 Median acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 14/14/13/12 Median acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 14/14/14/11
The results:
My weights - 10th, 9th, 4th, 9th, 9th, 9th = 8.333th average Orion's weights - 18th, 12th, 16th, 10th, 10th, 13th = 13.166th average
Now I would caution against reading into these results too much at the moment, but I think it's safe to say at least that Orion's weights do not do significantly better than mine. To my mind, it's further suggestive evidence that all positions share the same necessary attributes; there are not position-specific attributes.
The main reason for caution is that it could simply be that my weights ended up having a higher jumping reach player on the field. The Orion team did start their 19 jump DC most games though, and if my weights are selecting more frequently for high jumping reach players who win then that's a feature not a bug. When I do this test with my Premier League 1.0 weights and one or two others, that will shed more light on this more conclusively.
Kriek said: I would like to be able to make the good decision myself, how should I select the players? Is 12 speed and acceleration ok if the rest of attributes is high? I thought that speed and acceleration was the only things that matters Expand Here are the necessary attributes
For Premier League you can get away with 14 pace/acc. If the player has very high stamina, then as low as 12 is viable.
For winning the Premier League, or tough international competition, you'd need 18+ pace/acc. You also need someone with very high jumping reach on the field, and at least decent levels of jumping reach across the team in general.
I'm currently doing some testing using the following personal estimations of how 'essential' attributes are:
Jumping reach 100% essential - 17 min ST/DC, 13 min rest of team = 99, 63 weight Acceleration/Pace 85% essential - 14 min = 61 Dribbling 45% essential - 13 min = 28 Anticipation 35% essential - 13 min = 22 Concentration 35% essential - 13 min = 22 Determination 25% essential - 14 min = 18 Work Rate 15% essential - 11 min = 7 Agility 15% essential - 10 min = 5 Balance 20% essential - 12 min = 11 Stamina 25% essential - 13 min = 16 Strength 2% essential - 8 min = 1 Finishing 2% essential - 7 min = 1 (ST only) Vision 2% essential - 7 min = 1
How 'essential' they are is just based on my intuitive feel for the data. So for instance, jumping reach is 100% essential because going below the requirement quickly gets you relegated. Acc/Pace I know can go down to ~12 in certain circumstances (i.e. Harry Kane), so a little leeway there. Work Rate, we know is ok down to 6, and the requirement of 11 isn't high to begin with, so you don't even really need to put it in your weights much (as most players will be 8+ anyway).
Kriek said: If I'm managing a national team, what are the hard filters I should use appart the hidden ones? Also 15 Speed and Acc?
So if I'm compairing those 3 MDC/MC, I shouldn't take Kimmich?
Of should I use another value as hard limit for speed and acceleration? Expand Kimmich is superior to those other two in all aspects except pace/acc/jump, and even then he has 20 natural fitness + 17 stamina + 3 injury proneness to mostly offset this downside.
keithb said: Using their test results and others before them I made my own weightings and these consistently produce the best results in genie scout. Expand You could go ahead and share these Genie Scout weightings of yours for the benefit of the people here
keithb said: Who knew eh?!?! Once again we thank you for groundbreaking research(which was initially wrong. As always!!!) Expand What you don't realize is that I stated this before HarvestGreen said anything about pressure.
HarvestGreen's post was 29 March 2026.
15 December 2025:
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I was surprised and intrigued by this finding by Orion in FM22 that pressure 1 supposedly results in 47% less performance than pressure 10.
That's a 32% drop in performance. It is important to note though that Orion found the difference between 10 pressure and 20 pressure to only be 10%, but even that is significant. Expand 19 December 2025:
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I would guess that ~8 is not too bad either, based on how work rate matters a great deal up to just 6 then it tails off. Expand Both in this very thread.
Not that I discovered the effect of pressure of course, I've always credited Orion for that from the get go. My point is that I have long hypothesized that pressure functions as work rate does, and also I think it's fair to say that Orion's findings had been largely ignored and forgotten, so I think I will give myself a pat on the back for breathing fresh life into this piece of knowledge.
Or is keithb going to claim that, as with everything else, everybody already knew pressure was the most important personality attribute?
Nozdormu said: 1. If pressure has a weight 52, then it is super important, it is as important as acceleration and pace, isn't it? how much pressure is good? probably at least 15?
2. Are there any other attributes (just as pressure) which are important but you are not putting them into Genie Scout's calculations? I mean what else attributes (besides pressure) we need to manually filter them?
3. You use two ST with jump 17 to do the test, not DC, Did you ever use two DC with jumping 17 or 18 to test it?
4. Why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC? Expand Yes, pressure is important. I first saw this when I came across Orion's FM22 test on it, and I think HarvestGreen has recently posted data for this for FM24 too. It's not as critical as pace/acc, because it seems that 10 or a bit even lower can be sufficient. I would speculate that it's going to be like work rate where 6 is the point beyond which returns start to tail off. But as we can see from the chart, pressure 10 > 20 is a 10% boost which is still highly significant (equivalent to 1 > 10 consistency or determination).
The weights are simply their values x 4 right now. So pressure 52/4 = 13. I'm actually yet to test pressure less than 13 yet, I suspect it could drop a point or two. You haven't asked about how weightings should be derived from attribute levels that work, but it touches on the matter. I don't want to get into this anyway, but let's just say there's no one way of approaching it. At the moment, I'm going for a transparent, simple approach, and I will be giving this more thought later. To give you a straightforward example of what I mean, consider pace/acc. 14-15 is necessary to finish ~5th, but a team of 13 will get you relegated. So perhaps one would say let's make that 56 weighting 100 instead, just to ensure you get at least 14 pace/acc. And for pressure, it's 52 weighting, but you only *really* need say ~6-10, with little benefit for 14+, so maybe let's make that 45 instead of 52. In a way that produces better results, but the formula is more opaque and perhaps more whimsical, and yet there are also other downsides/trade-offs too when you start thinking about this deeply.
I think I have accidentally used 4xDC 17 with 2xST (out of 4) 17 and the result wasn't noticeably different (hence I didn't realize until a bit later).
I've answered the balance & dribbling for DC question, it's because the key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions.
keithb said: Yamal with a potential of only 75. He isn't the best rw in the game, but really 75?? Thomas Muller is rated higher than him for rw. How can this be serious? Kante is rated 74!!! Surely Yamal reaching his potential is better than those two?
How do you not understand this? Do you actually play the game? Expand
why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC?
Why the "pressure = 0", you said pressure is an important attribute in your previous post I remember...
In your opinion, how much difference between jump 18 and jump 16 for DC? How important for "high jump" to help DC to have more goals in corner kicks? Expand Marking, tackling, heading, positioning have zero or close to zero effect for all positions
Pressure is important (52), but is not included in the Genie Scout weightings because it really stuffs up Genie Scout's calculations if you put it in. I recommend instead using a filter of 8 and then manually assessing.
The key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions. There may be some positional differences, but so far I haven't found any. And as you can see from my old files, I was strongly inclined to believe in positional differences, so this isn't my laziness or what I want to believe, I'm just going by the results I see.
I will say that of all the positions, based on testing I've done in the past, the position most likely to have differences is DM (and probably by extension, MC and AMC).
Results I had regarding jumping reach differences:
DC 16 - 5th, 8th DC 15 - 8th, 10th 2xST 17, DC 13 - 4th Normal at the time (DC 17) was ~4th-5th
Can't find the 15< results, but from the above you can see that 17 > 16 is drop of ~2 positions, 17 > 15 is drop of ~5 positions. If you extrapolate, 14 would be bottom table, and 13 would be relegated. Maybe 13 survives, I can't remember, but I know it's bad in any case.
keithb said: Do you not think the clubs are too closely matched? The gap should be a bit bigger down to the bottom of that page. And why are they rated so lowly? Do you use weight in genie scout? Its really useful. Genie scout is not bugged, it works as intended. But it does rate players and therefore teams too low.
Then we have Mbappe only rated 78/80 which is crazy and Yamal with a potential of only 75. He isn't the best rw in the game, but really 75?? Thomas Muller is rated higher than him for rw. How can this be serious? Kante is rated 74!!! Surely Yamal reaching his potential is better than those two?
How do you not understand this? Do you actually play the game? Expand Club rating and potential rating in Genie Scout is rubbish. Genie Scout is bugged, as was first pointed out not by me, but by LightningFlik on page 7.
Nozdormu said: 1. I play FM26 so I use this file "r5xm3t.grf", in this file, GK setting is reflex=57, acc=1, could you check it please?
2. I also find in this file "r5xm3t.grf", DR(L) and WBR(L) have exactly same settings, why?
3. Is there a latest version of rating file for FM26?
4. I use 4 defenders tactics, and both my two DC are jumping reach =18, and both their pace are 15, Is this ideal? or should I choose one DC's jumping=18 pace=15, the other DC is jumping=15 but pace=20?
So "two high jumping DC" (pace relatively slow, pace=15), or "one high jump DC+ one fast pace DC", which case gives the best defending? Expand You should use the new zhf2yl.grf file, it's the best for both FM24 and FM26. It hasn't been adjusted for FM26, but it wouldn't be much different.
In the old r5xm3t.grf file, DR is same as WBR because I didn't care about WBR, MC, AMC position as I used 424 Knap tactic and those extra positions would be double the work. This is still the case, however it turns out that all outfield positions share almost identical attribute requirements anyway.
I don't know if 2 jump would be better than 1 jump + 1 pace, but I would assume the former because if you have one jump player what happens when he gets substituted, injured, rested or whatnot. In fact, it's probably best to have 3-4 to be on the safe side.. but of course you're not going to have 4x 17 jump. A realistic outcome may end up like this: 16, 15, 15, 14.
For the Premier League, the pace/acc cutoff is ~14, and if you really need to, you can utilize the game's allowance for one player lacking this. So specifically your DC roster might look like this:
16 jump, 14 pace/acc (key player) - 29/38 league apps, 4/8 cup 15 jump, 15 pace/acc (first team) - 25/38 league, 4/8 cup 15 jump, 11 pace/14 acc (rotation) - 14/38 league, 4/8 cup 14 jump, 12 pace/acc (backup) - 6/38 league, 2/8 cup 12 jump, 10 pace/acc (youth hot prospect) - 2/38 league, 2/8 cup
Nozdormu said: Hi, George, thank you for your great work! I have a question about Jumping reach, I read your post and you said it is a 1 or 0 thing, so if I understand correctly, Jumping needs to be greater or equal to 17, otherwise it is equivalent to zero, for example 16=0, is that right?
Another issue is about GK, I download your rating file from your OP, is that the latest one? (I assume you didn't put the latest one in those replies...), for GK, the file is to set reflex=57, acc=1, is that true?
I remember you said for GK, the most important attributes are reflex and agility, followed by acceleration, but why the reflex=57 rather than 99? why acceleration =1 for GK? Thank you! Expand Jumping reach isn't quite all or nothing, but there will be a steep drop off if you don't have what I suppose is the tallest player on the field. I'm not sure if it's one or two players you need, since I almost always use 2x 17 in my tests. They don't have to be both DC, but I think probably having 1 being DC is best (I think I vaguely remember testing 2x DC 17 vs 2x ST 17..). You can only get the best you can get, so if you can't get 17 unless it's some 36-year-old with 7 pace/acc, then go for 16.. 15.. etc.
I don't think you have loaded the correct file. I double checked, and the file in the OP (zhf2yl.grf) has 44 reflexes, 52 acceleration.
That info for GK is outdated. What I found is that reflexes hit diminishing returns after ~10-11. And there were some other surprises too. HarvestGreen found that reflexes is the most important attribute, but if you look at his test conditions, he is setting all attributes to 20 then reducing reflexes to 1. My inference is that this means reflexes requires a certain minimum to function properly, but it doesn't mean his data contradicts mine.
Kriek said: Yes that was wat I meant, thank you. So we should use your latest ratings no matter what Expand Yes
First go at National League South. I'm guessing 11-12 pace/acc would get promotion, but wanted to see what all grey players (including jumping reach and hiddens) can do.
So it doesn't seem like leagues have their own unique set of requirements (i.e. maybe EPL requires speed, but Bundesliga requires technical ability). It seems like a certain set of attributes work, and some leagues are simply weaker, and that's it.
I guess it's also a decent measure of the quality of the league. Based on the positions, the rankings so far for league strength are:
Spain Div 1 England Div 1 power gap Germany Div 1 France Div 1 England Div 2
It could help in assessing players based on their average rating in a league, and making loan decisions - it's probably best to loan to France Div 1 rather than either Spain Div 1 or England Div 2.
Kriek said: And with a small club, best to first use FM26 ratings, then after a few season switch to the other method, so filtering and then apply ratings? Expand I suppose what you mean is that filtering for '8' hiddens as a small club would be asking too much. I wouldn't change the filter, 8 is already low, and unlike say pace/acc, hiddens such as consistency and natural fitness will be more evenly distributed.
If you mean pace/acc filter, then yes, I would reduce the filter for that in line with what you can get (no lower than 10 I would think).
keithb said: Confused? Comprehension?? I put your ratings file in and Mbappe is ranked lower than Kane!! Always funny that you come back with something and its either mad or in this case just what? Mbappe's rating is LOW using your ratings file. Have you even looked????? I think you might even have Giroud higher lol. Its not possible.
You realise a lot of people do things on youtube and its just for views? Expand I said to use FM26 scoring system. As I have said repeatedly before, FM Genie Scout is bugged and therefore I recommend FM26 scoring system if you want the most accurate result.
In FM26 scoring system, Mbappe is 10th (15.0) and Kane is 12th (14.8).
That said, these are two very apples & oranges players. Kane has very high mentals/technicals/jumping reach, but 12 acc/14 pace, whereas Mbappe is 20 acc/pace and low jumping reach.
But at the end of the day, that is quibbling about whether Kane is 10th or 12th or 17th. A 1% difference.
The youtube video shows the form statistics for each player as screenshots from the game. Why would they doctor the screenshots? You're grasping at straws.
keithb said: Oh well if a youtuber said so!! You have Kane above Mbappe, who isn't in the top10 players?? He is the BEST fast striker in the game and probably best lw with Vini. Ronaldo and Messi aren't that good in FM24!! Kane is better than them. Nor is Lewandowski, the gap between him and Haaland is immense.
Other people with a decent understanding of the game will also say your ratings are dreadful. I always thought you didn't really know what you were doing, you just rehashed a lot of other people’s work, but this is worse than I ever imagined.
Its also hilarious pointing out the difference between Haaland and Mbappe. You reckon?? Expand You are very confused, I suggest you reread slowly. I wrote clearly that Mbappe is above Kane, and that Kane is better than Ronaldo and Messi. Mbappe is ranked 10th ST.
That's three basic comprehension errors, but your other claims are false too. Here is the video that shows Lewandowski comes a close 2nd to Haaland, and Mbappe doing pretty crap in the Premier League.
keithb said: These are probably the worst set of numbers I've ever seen for genie scout. Again you don't understand the game, your testing is dreadful and I don't even understand how anyone can produce numbers like this. And it's for every player? Recently you ridiculed me for saying stamina is important and now you have it eight behind acceleration and pace. How is speed only set to 60??? Reflexes is the lowest attribute for keepers. Lower than metals, jumping reach and technique. This has to be a troll.
Nobody would be using these. Wingers and full backs don't need jumping reach. Mbappe and Salah will produce incredible numbers and they are both low. Expand Anyone who doubts the results can spend 20 minutes plugging in the numbers from my templates to an existing Premier League team in the editor and then holiday a season with Knap tactic (any good one) + 'Blue' set piece routines.
None of the attribute values are theory; they have been repeatedly tested in the English Premier League on full detail with an otherwise default database.
But I'll entertain your little supposed counter-example.
A youtuber put some of the best strikers in the Premier League to compare them. His results were:
If you look at Mbappe's stats he has 20 acc/pace while Haaland only has 17 acc/19 pace. Mbappe even has better dribbling (18 vs 14). If you compare the two, Haaland's main advantages over Mbappe are jumping reach, heading, aggression, strength.
If you plug my weights into FM26 scoring system, the order of STs is:
Haaland 16.7 Lewandowski 15.4 Mbappe 15.0 Messi 14.1 Ronaldo 13.0 Kane 14.8
The only one out of order there is Kane, until you realize that Kane scored more goals than Messi and Ronaldo. From another Youtuber's test, we know that rating doesn't reflect actual performance properly (it boosts technical players over physical players, even when the physicals actually win the games). Salah is ranked 7th overall, slightly above Mbappe. In one of my saves I just checked, Salah got 7.50 rating in his first season, which is about right.
Kriek said: So if I understand correctly, I should first filter the players based on hidden attribute, then use the ratings to order the remaining players and find the best players? Expand Yes
Serial42 said: Jumping reach is important for fullbacks and wingers in FM26 ? Expand I haven't tested FM26, but it should be the same as for FM24, which is that jumping reach is important for every position. It's essential that you have at least 1 or 2 players that have very high jumping reach (i.e. 17), but having good jumping reach on other players is also of strong benefit - even if it's just 13 instead of 10.
dancamp said: i don't have genie scout cause i play on a mac but i'm using fmdatalabs for similar attribute rating with exports -- safe to say anything not listed here gets a 0 weight? also, do you have gk weights somewhere and i missed it? Expand OpticFawn said: What weights would you give for the hiddens if I were to use on genie or fmrte Expand Outfield:
Dribbling 52 Aggression 44 Anticipation 52 Composure 44 Concentration 52 Determination 56 Work Rate 44 Acceleration 60 Agility 40 Balance 48 Jumping Reach 52 (68 for DC & Target Man) Pace 60 Stamina 52
GK:
Concentration 52 Determination 52 Acceleration 52 Agility 56 Jumping Reach 56 Pace 52 First Touch 52 Technique 52 Aerial Ability 56 Command of Area 48 Reflexes 44
I strongly caution against attempting to use those 5 last ones in Genie Scout, it's bugged. I tried and it had the opposite effect (bad personality = higher %, when other stats equal). Natural fitness is a visible attribute, but it functions different to the other visible ones in Genie Scout. Don't adjust other hiddens like injury proneness either, and you *may* have fairly accurate results in Genie Scout.
I did 10 season test on fc Metz and that one out preformed the newest file set but might be some rng possibly please test.
FM24 Pure Performance results:
5th*, 6th*, 8th*, 6th, 4th, 10th = 6.5 average
Asterisked results are where I forgot to set injury proneness to 1 as control
Premier League 1.0 results:
6th, 9th, 7th = 7.33 average
I also tried a few alternative tactics with one of these squads, to see if something does better than the Knap EF 424 IF HP V2 P101 AC tactic I use. The first few did worse, but 424 Classic v164 got 3rd, 3rd, 9th, 5th. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but I'll be taking a closer look at it.
Exellent said: You were absolutely right, it was discovered in the new thread that Genie Scout indeed has bugs. For example, the higher the height, the higher the rating.
The thing is, that program isn't actually Genie Scout as far as I can tell..
The bug he encountered is valid though, but also it may be that he hasn't taken into account footedness and position proficiency which is the more likely cause if not ruled out.
I can't take credit for finding Genie Scout is bugged, LightningFlik clued me onto this.
I think it's the first time a results-based comparison of the Genie Scout rating files has been attempted.
Method:
- Luton in Premier League
- Remove all players
- Filter in Genie Scout for CA-PA gap of 0-3 and current reputation 0-6000 and green proficiency in relevant position
- Take top 3-4 in each position
- Move them to Luton
- Change age, personality, natural fitness, consistency, important matches, nationality, height, weight, etc. so that there is control where there needs to be
- Position proficiency is deliberately *not* controlled (this has pros and cons)
- One season with Knap tactic and Blue routines (Premier League, FA Cup & Carabao Cup @ full detail)
Extra info:
Player overlap - 13 of 27 players
Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 18/18/19/15
Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 18/18/19/13
Median acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 14/14/13/12
Median acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 14/14/14/11
The results:
My weights - 10th, 9th, 4th, 9th, 9th, 9th = 8.333th average
Orion's weights - 18th, 12th, 16th, 10th, 10th, 13th = 13.166th average
Now I would caution against reading into these results too much at the moment, but I think it's safe to say at least that Orion's weights do not do significantly better than mine. To my mind, it's further suggestive evidence that all positions share the same necessary attributes; there are not position-specific attributes.
The main reason for caution is that it could simply be that my weights ended up having a higher jumping reach player on the field. The Orion team did start their 19 jump DC most games though, and if my weights are selecting more frequently for high jumping reach players who win then that's a feature not a bug. When I do this test with my Premier League 1.0 weights and one or two others, that will shed more light on this more conclusively.
Is 12 speed and acceleration ok if the rest of attributes is high? I thought that speed and acceleration was the only things that matters
Here are the necessary attributes
For Premier League you can get away with 14 pace/acc. If the player has very high stamina, then as low as 12 is viable.
For winning the Premier League, or tough international competition, you'd need 18+ pace/acc. You also need someone with very high jumping reach on the field, and at least decent levels of jumping reach across the team in general.
I'm currently doing some testing using the following personal estimations of how 'essential' attributes are:
Jumping reach 100% essential - 17 min ST/DC, 13 min rest of team = 99, 63 weight
Acceleration/Pace 85% essential - 14 min = 61
Dribbling 45% essential - 13 min = 28
Anticipation 35% essential - 13 min = 22
Concentration 35% essential - 13 min = 22
Determination 25% essential - 14 min = 18
Work Rate 15% essential - 11 min = 7
Agility 15% essential - 10 min = 5
Balance 20% essential - 12 min = 11
Stamina 25% essential - 13 min = 16
Strength 2% essential - 8 min = 1
Finishing 2% essential - 7 min = 1 (ST only)
Vision 2% essential - 7 min = 1
How 'essential' they are is just based on my intuitive feel for the data. So for instance, jumping reach is 100% essential because going below the requirement quickly gets you relegated. Acc/Pace I know can go down to ~12 in certain circumstances (i.e. Harry Kane), so a little leeway there. Work Rate, we know is ok down to 6, and the requirement of 11 isn't high to begin with, so you don't even really need to put it in your weights much (as most players will be 8+ anyway).
Also 15 Speed and Acc?
So if I'm compairing those 3 MDC/MC, I shouldn't take Kimmich?
Of should I use another value as hard limit for speed and acceleration?
Kimmich is superior to those other two in all aspects except pace/acc/jump, and even then he has 20 natural fitness + 17 stamina + 3 injury proneness to mostly offset this downside.
You could go ahead and share these Genie Scout weightings of yours for the benefit of the people here
What you don't realize is that I stated this before HarvestGreen said anything about pressure.
HarvestGreen's post was 29 March 2026.
15 December 2025:
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I was surprised and intrigued by this finding by Orion in FM22 that pressure 1 supposedly results in 47% less performance than pressure 10.
So I've tested it, and it really is important:
115 CA templates pressure 1 - 102, +127 | 105, +119
That's a 32% drop in performance. It is important to note though that Orion found the difference between 10 pressure and 20 pressure to only be 10%, but even that is significant.
19 December 2025:
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I would guess that ~8 is not too bad either, based on how work rate matters a great deal up to just 6 then it tails off.
Both in this very thread.
Not that I discovered the effect of pressure of course, I've always credited Orion for that from the get go. My point is that I have long hypothesized that pressure functions as work rate does, and also I think it's fair to say that Orion's findings had been largely ignored and forgotten, so I think I will give myself a pat on the back for breathing fresh life into this piece of knowledge.
Or is keithb going to claim that, as with everything else, everybody already knew pressure was the most important personality attribute?
2. Are there any other attributes (just as pressure) which are important but you are not putting them into Genie Scout's calculations? I mean what else attributes (besides pressure) we need to manually filter them?
3. You use two ST with jump 17 to do the test, not DC, Did you ever use two DC with jumping 17 or 18 to test it?
4. Why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC?
Yes, pressure is important. I first saw this when I came across Orion's FM22 test on it, and I think HarvestGreen has recently posted data for this for FM24 too. It's not as critical as pace/acc, because it seems that 10 or a bit even lower can be sufficient. I would speculate that it's going to be like work rate where 6 is the point beyond which returns start to tail off. But as we can see from the chart, pressure 10 > 20 is a 10% boost which is still highly significant (equivalent to 1 > 10 consistency or determination).
The weights are simply their values x 4 right now. So pressure 52/4 = 13. I'm actually yet to test pressure less than 13 yet, I suspect it could drop a point or two. You haven't asked about how weightings should be derived from attribute levels that work, but it touches on the matter. I don't want to get into this anyway, but let's just say there's no one way of approaching it. At the moment, I'm going for a transparent, simple approach, and I will be giving this more thought later. To give you a straightforward example of what I mean, consider pace/acc. 14-15 is necessary to finish ~5th, but a team of 13 will get you relegated. So perhaps one would say let's make that 56 weighting 100 instead, just to ensure you get at least 14 pace/acc. And for pressure, it's 52 weighting, but you only *really* need say ~6-10, with little benefit for 14+, so maybe let's make that 45 instead of 52. In a way that produces better results, but the formula is more opaque and perhaps more whimsical, and yet there are also other downsides/trade-offs too when you start thinking about this deeply.
I think I have accidentally used 4xDC 17 with 2xST (out of 4) 17 and the result wasn't noticeably different (hence I didn't realize until a bit later).
I've answered the balance & dribbling for DC question, it's because the key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions.
How do you not understand this? Do you actually play the game?
You were saying?
Do you actually watch the game?!??
This guy was beaten by 40-year-old goalkeeper!!!!
marking = 0
tackling = 0
heading = 0
position = 0
pressure = 0
balance = 48
dribbling = 52
Do I download the correct file?
why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC?
Why the "pressure = 0", you said pressure is an important attribute in your previous post I remember...
In your opinion, how much difference between jump 18 and jump 16 for DC? How important for "high jump" to help DC to have more goals in corner kicks?
Marking, tackling, heading, positioning have zero or close to zero effect for all positions
Pressure is important (52), but is not included in the Genie Scout weightings because it really stuffs up Genie Scout's calculations if you put it in. I recommend instead using a filter of 8 and then manually assessing.
The key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions. There may be some positional differences, but so far I haven't found any. And as you can see from my old files, I was strongly inclined to believe in positional differences, so this isn't my laziness or what I want to believe, I'm just going by the results I see.
I will say that of all the positions, based on testing I've done in the past, the position most likely to have differences is DM (and probably by extension, MC and AMC).
Results I had regarding jumping reach differences:
DC 16 - 5th, 8th
DC 15 - 8th, 10th
2xST 17, DC 13 - 4th
Normal at the time (DC 17) was ~4th-5th
Can't find the 15< results, but from the above you can see that 17 > 16 is drop of ~2 positions, 17 > 15 is drop of ~5 positions. If you extrapolate, 14 would be bottom table, and 13 would be relegated. Maybe 13 survives, I can't remember, but I know it's bad in any case.
Then we have Mbappe only rated 78/80 which is crazy and Yamal with a potential of only 75. He isn't the best rw in the game, but really 75?? Thomas Muller is rated higher than him for rw. How can this be serious? Kante is rated 74!!! Surely Yamal reaching his potential is better than those two?
How do you not understand this? Do you actually play the game?
Club rating and potential rating in Genie Scout is rubbish. Genie Scout is bugged, as was first pointed out not by me, but by LightningFlik on page 7.
Your understanding is really outdated.
2. I also find in this file "r5xm3t.grf", DR(L) and WBR(L) have exactly same settings, why?
3. Is there a latest version of rating file for FM26?
4. I use 4 defenders tactics, and both my two DC are jumping reach =18, and both their pace are 15, Is this ideal? or should I choose one DC's jumping=18 pace=15, the other DC is jumping=15 but pace=20?
So "two high jumping DC" (pace relatively slow, pace=15), or "one high jump DC+ one fast pace DC", which case gives the best defending?
You should use the new zhf2yl.grf file, it's the best for both FM24 and FM26. It hasn't been adjusted for FM26, but it wouldn't be much different.
In the old r5xm3t.grf file, DR is same as WBR because I didn't care about WBR, MC, AMC position as I used 424 Knap tactic and those extra positions would be double the work. This is still the case, however it turns out that all outfield positions share almost identical attribute requirements anyway.
I don't know if 2 jump would be better than 1 jump + 1 pace, but I would assume the former because if you have one jump player what happens when he gets substituted, injured, rested or whatnot. In fact, it's probably best to have 3-4 to be on the safe side.. but of course you're not going to have 4x 17 jump. A realistic outcome may end up like this: 16, 15, 15, 14.
For the Premier League, the pace/acc cutoff is ~14, and if you really need to, you can utilize the game's allowance for one player lacking this. So specifically your DC roster might look like this:
16 jump, 14 pace/acc (key player) - 29/38 league apps, 4/8 cup
15 jump, 15 pace/acc (first team) - 25/38 league, 4/8 cup
15 jump, 11 pace/14 acc (rotation) - 14/38 league, 4/8 cup
14 jump, 12 pace/acc (backup) - 6/38 league, 2/8 cup
12 jump, 10 pace/acc (youth hot prospect) - 2/38 league, 2/8 cup
Another issue is about GK, I download your rating file from your OP, is that the latest one? (I assume you didn't put the latest one in those replies...), for GK, the file is to set reflex=57, acc=1, is that true?
I remember you said for GK, the most important attributes are reflex and agility, followed by acceleration, but why the reflex=57 rather than 99? why acceleration =1 for GK? Thank you!
Jumping reach isn't quite all or nothing, but there will be a steep drop off if you don't have what I suppose is the tallest player on the field. I'm not sure if it's one or two players you need, since I almost always use 2x 17 in my tests. They don't have to be both DC, but I think probably having 1 being DC is best (I think I vaguely remember testing 2x DC 17 vs 2x ST 17..). You can only get the best you can get, so if you can't get 17 unless it's some 36-year-old with 7 pace/acc, then go for 16.. 15.. etc.
I don't think you have loaded the correct file. I double checked, and the file in the OP (zhf2yl.grf) has 44 reflexes, 52 acceleration.
That info for GK is outdated. What I found is that reflexes hit diminishing returns after ~10-11. And there were some other surprises too. HarvestGreen found that reflexes is the most important attribute, but if you look at his test conditions, he is setting all attributes to 20 then reducing reflexes to 1. My inference is that this means reflexes requires a certain minimum to function properly, but it doesn't mean his data contradicts mine.
Kriek said: Yes that was wat I meant, thank you.
So we should use your latest ratings no matter what
Yes
Germany Div 1:
France Div 1:
Spain Div 1:
England Div 2:
So it doesn't seem like leagues have their own unique set of requirements (i.e. maybe EPL requires speed, but Bundesliga requires technical ability). It seems like a certain set of attributes work, and some leagues are simply weaker, and that's it.
I guess it's also a decent measure of the quality of the league. Based on the positions, the rankings so far for league strength are:
Spain Div 1
England Div 1
power gap
Germany Div 1
France Div 1
England Div 2
It could help in assessing players based on their average rating in a league, and making loan decisions - it's probably best to loan to France Div 1 rather than either Spain Div 1 or England Div 2.
I suppose what you mean is that filtering for '8' hiddens as a small club would be asking too much. I wouldn't change the filter, 8 is already low, and unlike say pace/acc, hiddens such as consistency and natural fitness will be more evenly distributed.
If you mean pace/acc filter, then yes, I would reduce the filter for that in line with what you can get (no lower than 10 I would think).
You realise a lot of people do things on youtube and its just for views?
I said to use FM26 scoring system. As I have said repeatedly before, FM Genie Scout is bugged and therefore I recommend FM26 scoring system if you want the most accurate result.
In FM26 scoring system, Mbappe is 10th (15.0) and Kane is 12th (14.8).
That said, these are two very apples & oranges players. Kane has very high mentals/technicals/jumping reach, but 12 acc/14 pace, whereas Mbappe is 20 acc/pace and low jumping reach.
But at the end of the day, that is quibbling about whether Kane is 10th or 12th or 17th. A 1% difference.
The youtube video shows the form statistics for each player as screenshots from the game. Why would they doctor the screenshots? You're grasping at straws.
Other people with a decent understanding of the game will also say your ratings are dreadful. I always thought you didn't really know what you were doing, you just rehashed a lot of other people’s work, but this is worse than I ever imagined.
Its also hilarious pointing out the difference between Haaland and Mbappe. You reckon??
You are very confused, I suggest you reread slowly. I wrote clearly that Mbappe is above Kane, and that Kane is better than Ronaldo and Messi. Mbappe is ranked 10th ST.
That's three basic comprehension errors, but your other claims are false too. Here is the video that shows Lewandowski comes a close 2nd to Haaland, and Mbappe doing pretty crap in the Premier League.
Nobody would be using these. Wingers and full backs don't need jumping reach. Mbappe and Salah will produce incredible numbers and they are both low.
Anyone who doubts the results can spend 20 minutes plugging in the numbers from my templates to an existing Premier League team in the editor and then holiday a season with Knap tactic (any good one) + 'Blue' set piece routines.
None of the attribute values are theory; they have been repeatedly tested in the English Premier League on full detail with an otherwise default database.
But I'll entertain your little supposed counter-example.
A youtuber put some of the best strikers in the Premier League to compare them. His results were:
haaland 40 goals/38 appearances 7.57 rating
lewandowski 38/38 7.52
mbappe 35/36 7.30
messi 26/38 7.26
ronaldo 23/33 7.19
kane 28/38 7.12
If you look at Mbappe's stats he has 20 acc/pace while Haaland only has 17 acc/19 pace. Mbappe even has better dribbling (18 vs 14). If you compare the two, Haaland's main advantages over Mbappe are jumping reach, heading, aggression, strength.
If you plug my weights into FM26 scoring system, the order of STs is:
Haaland 16.7
Lewandowski 15.4
Mbappe 15.0
Messi 14.1
Ronaldo 13.0
Kane 14.8
The only one out of order there is Kane, until you realize that Kane scored more goals than Messi and Ronaldo. From another Youtuber's test, we know that rating doesn't reflect actual performance properly (it boosts technical players over physical players, even when the physicals actually win the games). Salah is ranked 7th overall, slightly above Mbappe. In one of my saves I just checked, Salah got 7.50 rating in his first season, which is about right.
Yes
Serial42 said: Jumping reach is important for fullbacks and wingers in FM26 ?
I haven't tested FM26, but it should be the same as for FM24, which is that jumping reach is important for every position. It's essential that you have at least 1 or 2 players that have very high jumping reach (i.e. 17), but having good jumping reach on other players is also of strong benefit - even if it's just 13 instead of 10.
OpticFawn said: What weights would you give for the hiddens if I were to use on genie or fmrte
Outfield:
Dribbling 52
Aggression 44
Anticipation 52
Composure 44
Concentration 52
Determination 56
Work Rate 44
Acceleration 60
Agility 40
Balance 48
Jumping Reach 52 (68 for DC & Target Man)
Pace 60
Stamina 52
GK:
Concentration 52
Determination 52
Acceleration 52
Agility 56
Jumping Reach 56
Pace 52
First Touch 52
Technique 52
Aerial Ability 56
Command of Area 48
Reflexes 44
For both:
Important Matches 52
Natural Fitness 48
Consistency 52
Pressure 52
Professionalism 52
I strongly caution against attempting to use those 5 last ones in Genie Scout, it's bugged. I tried and it had the opposite effect (bad personality = higher %, when other stats equal). Natural fitness is a visible attribute, but it functions different to the other visible ones in Genie Scout. Don't adjust other hiddens like injury proneness either, and you *may* have fairly accurate results in Genie Scout.