tam1236 said: Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining. Expand
sorry but nobody is talking about a game having a meta (meta = some attributes performing a little above their "paygrade). Here we are talking about a game where more than 2/3 of its attributes are literally not working at all. And therefore we have a game that's lying to you because it creates this illusion of roles and duties and attributes that are needed for them etc. think about all these small interactions "he doesn't read the game that well" when in reality "decisions" and "positioning" basically don't even exist. In this game a playmaker doesn't need passing and technique or flair and vision and decisions. He only needs speed. Does that sound right to you? Plus, the game tells you he needs passing. (just as an example).
what do you think about the find that CA can win games? as mentioned i increased my player’s CA and PA (but not the attributes) directly before a match (so that everything stayed unchanged) and suddenly i started winning against the same team I always lost against (reloaded a savegame many times) it would mean that mental and technical attributes can make a difference because the game assigns CA to them.
maybe this is sports interactives trick to make attributes matter - even if they cannot show things like passing in the match engine (pace / acceleration are very easy to show in the match engine) they just generally change the odds of winning 😀
that’s why i made another small experiment, i gave a player a 20 in passing/technique/vision/flair and compared this to him having a 1 in these attributes. My team won more games because of higher CA but the “passing match stats” like “passes completed” or “key passes” did not change at all
tam1236 said: Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining. By the way we have the same trend in real life where players are more and more phycical. Expand
I can only repeat myself, there is a difference between certain attributes being more effective than others and what we are looking at here. The game presents you with this huge number of attributes and tells you these narratives around them, for example about playmakers with passing/technique/vision/flair and all the other combinations and how they work together with the roles/duties and even the traits.
Think about all these texts you get like "he doesn't read the game well enough" when we now know that "positioning" and "decisions" and all the other shit doesn't do anything.
And as I meantioned before, don't even get me started on the training farce and all these ingame texts of the different sessions. We are literally being lied to. How can you brush this off just like that.
Gracolas said: you guys could simply not open fm-arena (or this topic really) if you didnt want to be spoiled.. however you are just like us that want to understand what is the best meta to play and here you are. Now dont complain. The beauty of FM is there's no wrong way to play it, so you choose if you want to learn all the nerdy meta data or not. Expand
well there is a difference between finding out about certain attributes being more effective in the match engine, and finding out that pretty much every narrative the game tells you about the mental and technical attributes is nothing but a fairy tale. And don't even get me started on the whole training farce.
Bill W said: In full disclosure, I'm one season in so far, with a J3 side and I JUST updated the genie settings, but I was mostly already going with the old fm24 preferred stats anyway.
Trying to recruit mostly to pace and jumping apparently works well. Team did great, crushed the league pretty really. The genie seems to spit out the types of players I prefer, if that's mostly what you're asking... But yeah. So far so good! Expand
you call that good? I am very frustrated at SI. I tell you what was good: those times when I looked at a player and imagined in my head how his passing skills in combination with his flair would unlock the opponents defense. and how his off the ball would work well with move into channels etc. etc.
I would be happy to hear your opinion on the following find: apparently the CA alone can win matches - regardless of the attributes. in FM24 I changed the CA and PA of all players in a very weak team to 200 (but left the actual attributes unchanged). since it was seconds before the match started, I am sure that everything stayed unchanged until kickoff. And strangely, I won almost every match against the same much stronger opponent I lost to every time before (I loaded the same file 20 times each). If that is true it means that things like passing/decisions etc. can win matches indirectly as they change a team's CA.
and sorry if that has been asked before, but it seems you isolated attributes that should work in a bundle, for example passing needs passing+technique+vision+decisions to be effective. same like marking needs strength, pace, anticipation etc. to succeed. do you think that this could make a difference?
CryosFeron said: ok I just had an important breakthrough (at least for myself): I was sad about finding out that passing, technique etc. allegedly were so useless in FM24, so I ran my own (very small) test: I started a game with a very bad team that had to go against a strong side in their first match and gave all of my players very good passing attributes - and they now won this match 10 times in a row vs. before losing the same match 10 times in a row!
I played as Dorking in Vanarama National League and the match was against Chesterfield in season 2023/2024.
I believe that the key difference was that I not only gave my players 20 in passing, I gave them 20 in the whole passing package (passing/technique/vision/decisions/flair). I guess at least passing/technique/vision are directly linked together so they should not be treated separatedly. I am very happy about this result as it shows (to me) that while pace/acceleration might be very important, things in FM24 are not as bad as I feared they would be. I mean: Winning 10 times vs losing 10 times is quite the change. Expand
ok here is another interesting find: I thought/hoped that the passing skills made this big difference, but I wanted to be sure that it actually changed how the match engine behaves on the pitch. So I ran another experiment and this time I left every attribute unchanged and only increased PA and CA to 200 of every player. So basically nothing had changed except for PA and CA - and this was right before the match started so the attributes were 100% untouched. And guess what: I also won every match (reloaded 10 times) against this much stronger side that beat me every time before I made any changes in the first place. I guess this means two things:
1. The Match Engine isn't directly linked to each and every attribute - it seems that SI just skews the general match odds a little bit into the direction of the side it things should be stronger.
2. Things like passing and off the ball etc. do have an impact after all, since SI considers them to be so strong for certain positions assigns so much CA points towards it. So indirectly these attributes should have an impact on matches. Maybe not as strong as Pace but hey: winning every game that I previously lost is not a small change.
ok I just had an important breakthrough (at least for myself): I was sad about finding out that passing, technique etc. allegedly were so useless in FM24, so I ran my own (very small) test: I started a game with a very bad team that had to go against a strong side in their first match and gave all of my players very good passing attributes - and they now won this match 10 times in a row vs. before losing the same match 10 times in a row!
I played as Dorking in Vanarama National League and the match was against Chesterfield in season 2023/2024.
I believe that the key difference was that I not only gave my players 20 in passing, I gave them 20 in the whole passing package (passing/technique/vision/decisions/flair). I guess at least passing/technique/vision are directly linked together so they should not be treated separatedly. I am very happy about this result as it shows (to me) that while pace/acceleration might be very important, things in FM24 are not as bad as I feared they would be. I mean: Winning 10 times vs losing 10 times is quite the change.
thanks for all your hard work - but how is it that people here seem to be happy and thankful rather than disenchanted and sad (like I am)? I used to love this game and had all these countless sweet narratives in my head of playmakers with high passing/technique & flair delivering those killer balls, of strikers with high off the ball moving into channels unlocking the opposition. etc. etc. .... now knowing that I just need pace/accelration and use this "plastic" lifeless training plan. So where I spent hours tinkering with training plans imagining everything in my head, I now know that everyhting is just a giant lie. My god, all that is so sad. How am I the only one feeling this way? Ah yes: of course I can already feel that I won't be playing this game for long now anymore - after having played thousand of happy hours before. It feels like getting handed the wrong colored pill in the film Matrix.
yes that’s why i did that directly before the match started. there was no time for anything to change. and pac/acc were unchanged too
sorry but nobody is talking about a game having a meta (meta = some attributes performing a little above their "paygrade). Here we are talking about a game where more than 2/3 of its attributes are literally not working at all. And therefore we have a game that's lying to you because it creates this illusion of roles and duties and attributes that are needed for them etc. think about all these small interactions "he doesn't read the game that well" when in reality "decisions" and "positioning" basically don't even exist. In this game a playmaker doesn't need passing and technique or flair and vision and decisions. He only needs speed. Does that sound right to you?
Plus, the game tells you he needs passing.
(just as an example).
what do you think about the find that CA can win games? as mentioned i increased my player’s CA and PA (but not the attributes) directly before a match (so that everything stayed unchanged) and suddenly i started winning against the same team I always lost against (reloaded a savegame many times)
it would mean that mental and technical attributes can make a difference because the game assigns CA to them.
maybe this is sports interactives trick to make attributes matter - even if they cannot show things like passing in the match engine (pace / acceleration are very easy to show in the match engine) they just generally change the odds of winning 😀
that’s why i made another small experiment, i gave a player a 20 in passing/technique/vision/flair and compared this to him having a 1 in these attributes. My team won more games because of higher CA but the “passing match stats” like “passes completed” or “key passes” did not change at all
By the way we have the same trend in real life where players are more and more phycical.
I can only repeat myself, there is a difference between certain attributes being more effective than others and what we are looking at here. The game presents you with this huge number of attributes and tells you these narratives around them, for example about playmakers with passing/technique/vision/flair and all the other combinations and how they work together with the roles/duties and even the traits.
Think about all these texts you get like "he doesn't read the game well enough" when we now know that "positioning" and "decisions" and all the other shit doesn't do anything.
And as I meantioned before, don't even get me started on the training farce and all these ingame texts of the different sessions. We are literally being lied to. How can you brush this off just like that.
well there is a difference between finding out about certain attributes being more effective in the match engine, and finding out that pretty much every narrative the game tells you about the mental and technical attributes is nothing but a fairy tale. And don't even get me started on the whole training farce.
Did you actually meant what you wrote?
Trying to recruit mostly to pace and jumping apparently works well.
Team did great, crushed the league pretty really.
The genie seems to spit out the types of players I prefer, if that's mostly what you're asking...
But yeah. So far so good!
you call that good? I am very frustrated at SI.
I tell you what was good: those times when I looked at a player and imagined in my head how his passing skills in combination with his flair would unlock the opponents defense. and how his off the ball would work well with move into channels etc. etc.
those were the days when we felt like managers.
in FM24 I changed the CA and PA of all players in a very weak team to 200 (but left the actual attributes unchanged). since it was seconds before the match started, I am sure that everything stayed unchanged until kickoff. And strangely, I won almost every match against the same much stronger opponent I lost to every time before (I loaded the same file 20 times each).
If that is true it means that things like passing/decisions etc. can win matches indirectly as they change a team's CA.
and sorry if that has been asked before, but it seems you isolated attributes that should work in a bundle, for example passing needs passing+technique+vision+decisions to be effective. same like marking needs strength, pace, anticipation etc. to succeed.
do you think that this could make a difference?
I was sad about finding out that passing, technique etc. allegedly were so useless in FM24, so I ran my own (very small) test:
I started a game with a very bad team that had to go against a strong side in their first match and gave all of my players very good passing attributes - and they now won this match 10 times in a row vs. before losing the same match 10 times in a row!
I played as Dorking in Vanarama National League and the match was against Chesterfield in season 2023/2024.
I believe that the key difference was that I not only gave my players 20 in passing, I gave them 20 in the whole passing package (passing/technique/vision/decisions/flair). I guess at least passing/technique/vision are directly linked together so they should not be treated separatedly.
I am very happy about this result as it shows (to me) that while pace/acceleration might be very important, things in FM24 are not as bad as I feared they would be. I mean: Winning 10 times vs losing 10 times is quite the change.
ok here is another interesting find:
I thought/hoped that the passing skills made this big difference, but I wanted to be sure that it actually changed how the match engine behaves on the pitch. So I ran another experiment and this time I left every attribute unchanged and only increased PA and CA to 200 of every player. So basically nothing had changed except for PA and CA - and this was right before the match started so the attributes were 100% untouched. And guess what: I also won every match (reloaded 10 times) against this much stronger side that beat me every time before I made any changes in the first place. I guess this means two things:
1. The Match Engine isn't directly linked to each and every attribute - it seems that SI just skews the general match odds a little bit into the direction of the side it things should be stronger.
2. Things like passing and off the ball etc. do have an impact after all, since SI considers them to be so strong for certain positions assigns so much CA points towards it. So indirectly these attributes should have an impact on matches. Maybe not as strong as Pace but hey: winning every game that I previously lost is not a small change.
I was sad about finding out that passing, technique etc. allegedly were so useless in FM24, so I ran my own (very small) test:
I started a game with a very bad team that had to go against a strong side in their first match and gave all of my players very good passing attributes - and they now won this match 10 times in a row vs. before losing the same match 10 times in a row!
I played as Dorking in Vanarama National League and the match was against Chesterfield in season 2023/2024.
I believe that the key difference was that I not only gave my players 20 in passing, I gave them 20 in the whole passing package (passing/technique/vision/decisions/flair). I guess at least passing/technique/vision are directly linked together so they should not be treated separatedly.
I am very happy about this result as it shows (to me) that while pace/acceleration might be very important, things in FM24 are not as bad as I feared they would be. I mean: Winning 10 times vs losing 10 times is quite the change.
I used to love this game and had all these countless sweet narratives in my head of playmakers with high passing/technique & flair delivering those killer balls, of strikers with high off the ball moving into channels unlocking the opposition. etc. etc.
.... now knowing that I just need pace/accelration and use this "plastic" lifeless training plan. So where I spent hours tinkering with training plans imagining everything in my head, I now know that everyhting is just a giant lie. My god, all that is so sad. How am I the only one feeling this way?
Ah yes: of course I can already feel that I won't be playing this game for long now anymore - after having played thousand of happy hours before.
It feels like getting handed the wrong colored pill in the film Matrix.