There is a new update and I see the some changes like to the database, but my Match Engine is still on 24.2. I see that there is new testing on the new patch and I was wondering if there was a new patch that we needed to worry about.
1. Is it worth using 3 different tactics? 2. Would it be better to just use the general one and adjust the mentality from Attacking to whatever I needed? 3. The General question being, are match plans with 3 different tactics good and if so what are the best ways of utilizing them?
If you are starting at a club where you have say 3 coaches and it's summer and you've terminated everyone except the doctor. You put out advertisements for some coaches and around 26 different coaches from regular, fitness, goalkeeping, and assistant, which do you consider?
Well you want coaches to grow certain attributes and I have some weighted attributes that can point us in the right direction. Let's find the best coaching category.
I took the weights from my weights for FM24 and gave a score for each non goalkeeping-attribute. 26 of the 36 attributes are not used.
Then I combine the scores for each type of training. Above is the ranking of each scored attribute and the coach that affects it.
After combining the scores for the 8 types of coaches(not goalkeeping or set piece), you can see that having a good fitness coach for Quickness/Strength should your first priority followed by Possession/Mental Training.
There could be a case made that Quickness then coaching workload then other different coaches should be the priority check list you go through.
However, I don't know of the impact of workload of player growth vs getting good coaches without worrying about it. But if you are limited in coaches, this is what you should focus on.
I have a question about your schedule. I saw it reduces the team cohesion and in a long term, it will be terrible, right? Does it affect or can affect games (like to be worse or something like that).
Good work! Thanks a lot. Expand
I believe there are a couple of things that haven't been studied.
1. How is Team Cohesion acquired? Is it just through time spent with a team? Because it still grows throughout a year regardless.
2. How important is Team Cohesion for a team's performance? Because most players using the meta tactics will find that they are overperforming anyways.
Regardless, my focus is towards the growth of attributes towards weights that I created for the top tactic. Because if you have the better players, that is better than any in Football Manager.
doru228 said: @Han106 I have tweaked it for the first team, i get no more complains, if you fancy having a look and please test it to see how close it gets to the other training schedules. Expand
It was tested with Nothing, Half, Normal, Normal, Normal. But I play with Zaz's rest schedule of no training until full heart. Tbh, I think it's up to you and your risk tolerance. Your players will still get major injuries even on the lowest possible settings.
Kamas1 said: Hi How you rest players while using this schedule? Expand
doru228 said: well you done 75% of the work, i just tweaked it a little bit.
@Han106 there's something that i am wondering tho, if i should include consistency in the ratings, since a consistent player does get better ratings ingame (tested with same player, just consistency was modified over one season. difference was like 1.5 points between 1 consistency and 20, and about 0.75 between 10 and 20.) results were like this:
1 consistency 6.50 10 consistency 7.12 20 consistency 7.76 all of the above over 40 games simulated, frozen attributes and no injuries on Expand
You can include it in yours. However I don't include weights that aren't visible to the player. Seems great otherwise
On the left is the EBFM Training Schedule and on the right is my training schedule that I made for myself but in testing actually performed well compared to the EBFM schedule. This is 2 tests each of 4 teams so 8-16 players of sample size of each position. I compare the results below.
This is the 2 test results of MAW. All data is formatted in Alphabetical Position order(So AMC, AML/AMR, DCL/DCR, DR, DMC/DM, DL, GK, ST) because that's the best that FM Genie scout can do.
This is the 2 test results of EBFM.
Taking the Top 2 of each position and Clear winners. The Left side is MAW and Right side is EBFM.
AM(MAW) 66.6/65.9 vs 65.8/65.4 W(MAW) 65.6/64.6 vs 64.6/64.6 CB(MAW) 64/63.7 vs 63.7/63.6 FB(TIE) 63.5/63.4 vs 63.7/63.1 DM(TIE) 62.8/62.8 vs 63.2 vs 62.7 GK(EBFM) 58.1/57.9 vs 58.4/58 ST(TIE) 65.1/65 vs 65.1/64.1
This is the training schedule.
For the test file, matches are on Saturdays. I placed the foundational 11 on the left and the Defending Wides afterwards.
I will test other trainings either suggested, or increase sample size. I'm currently testing RDF Gengenpress Sat and General. I managed to at least catch up to EBFM's schedule. Depending on sample size, maybe his or mine win.
Using EBFM's video and data on Additional focuses to see if any additional focus are worth trying.
To note, AMC seems to really benefit from additional focuses. DL/DR doesn't. I've bolded on the top ones that are high percent growth and high scoring. This data is from 1 season in his testing so perhaps multiple seasons of high growth will supplement your player's growth.
Goalkeepers and Outfield players start at around 53% and 58% respectively in the ratings. The max potential is around 80% and 85% respectively. These ratings are all from Genie Scout. So for example an AMC at age 15 taking Penalty Taking will raise 2% in a season. Training tests with EBFM's training schedule showed around 4% to 5% in a season at age 20. Not sure how they add together but I believe using both could redistribute your players attributes mold your players the way you want them too.
For most of your young players, I like the idea of increasing the intensity of workload via additional focus.
The testing of trainings is confusing me, but I did want to look at additional focuses to see if they are worth doing. I'm glad to see that they at least have their uses.
doru228 said: I have adjusted these and tested them for a few seasons, seems that you do find the right players for the Katana v3.1 tactic on the tests.
Was I being too mean to Match Practice? Here's a table to find out.
So Resistance and Physical are on top like in Part 1 and double the Physicals rating of Match Practice.
The Match Practice training is really a all-around training. In my view, Match Practice doesn't train attributes the best. It's the best at being efficient, which is good if you are out of time in your week. However there are 2 cons.
1. It's a high intensity training. A 3 training day becomes a 2 training day if you aren't trying to kill your players.
2. It's not the best/top class at anything. Other trainings can fill its role better than Match Practice can.
I believe in a 2 match week, it's great for efficiency. HOWEVER, I have this untested belief that you could trade 2 match practice for 4 different trainings each and have your team be all-around better. Especially to help your Goalkeeper.
This is a 2nd table with all weighted attributes considered for all positions with Average of all positions on the right side.
A surprise here. With the usual suspects Defending, Match Practice, and Attacking, we have a hidden Handling at number 3 for best all-around training, and it's 3rd on the GK charts.
Match Practice, while not the best in either category is a great all-around training session.
Resistance and Physical both drop like a rock as they actually drop ratings from Technical and Mental.
Bafici said: For the GK/Defensive Players Defending seems much better. What about Defending for outfield players + 1 defensive shadow play for the GK ? GK's can improve until 30's but outfield players stop at age 26 generally(according to EBFM). So focusing on them is much more efficient i think and also keepers can play every match without getting tired so you can give them more game time. Expand
Yes you are correct, that defending is the best for those players. However, Physical, Resistance, Attacking, and Defending are already in the Foundational 11 incomplete training schedule from Part 2. I wasn't clear on this but this is trying to figure out what are the best other than those 4 trainings.
With the power of LARGE and XLOOKUP on Excel, I've saved hours now and in the future which brings this update to you.
This is the TOP 10 of non-CA Weighted Training Sessions for EACH POSITION using weights I designed for the top tactic on the FM24 Tactic Table.
With this caveat.
The Physical Trainings only weighted the Physical attributes + WorkRate and all the other trainings were weighted on everything other their Physical attributes.
Here are 2 observations.
1. Attacking Patient seems to be an Attacking Player's favorite meal. The Top training for the Attacking Midfielder and Striker. I have to wonder what if DL/DR and DM was also inserted into the Attacking Unit.
2. For the GK/Defensive Players, Defending Wide was the only Training in the TOP 10 for all 4 groups.
Unless, I really want to do more testing, these are the results gathered using EBFM's data.
I can do different formulas easier now for things like CA-Weighted or finding the best all-around training.
Eventually I'll test using Attacking Patient and Defending Wide, but for now you can explore the spreadsheet I've uploaded here.
If you have suggestions, I'm all ears. For now, I will explore what interests me on the day.
Happy FMing.
As a Bonus, this unscientific formula is how I made the Stamina weights.
Looking at the data point, Diff from Baseline, I feel that the growth of GKs and FBs are low comparatively to the rest of the positions. Looking at Room to grow, which took the Current % after a year compared to FM Genie Scout's Pot Rating(which may or may not be reliable), DCs and DMs are all lagging behind compared to their attacking position counterparts.
Attacking unit players seem to be doing very well in all metrics. On the other hand, I believe Defending/Goalkeeping players might need more. I'll try adding 2 sessions on the Wednesday designed to try and improve these metrics for those 2 groups. But would moving Defensive players to the Attacking unit work as well?
An attacking general one https://fm-arena.com/thread/9025-katana-4231-104p-v3-1/ <-- the Top performer
A Balanced Less Goals one https://fm-arena.com/thread/9526-4231-hegemony-underlap-fb-balanced/ <-- Fewest Goals Conceded
A Very Attacking More Goals one https://fm-arena.com/thread/9072-katana-4231-102p-v3-5/ <-- Most Goals Scored
But some questions.
1. Is it worth using 3 different tactics?
2. Would it be better to just use the general one and adjust the mentality from Attacking to whatever I needed?
3. The General question being, are match plans with 3 different tactics good and if so what are the best ways of utilizing them?
Well you want coaches to grow certain attributes and I have some weighted attributes that can point us in the right direction. Let's find the best coaching category.
I took the weights from my weights for FM24 and gave a score for each non goalkeeping-attribute. 26 of the 36 attributes are not used.
Then I combine the scores for each type of training. Above is the ranking of each scored attribute and the coach that affects it.
After combining the scores for the 8 types of coaches(not goalkeeping or set piece), you can see that having a good fitness coach for Quickness/Strength should your first priority followed by Possession/Mental Training.
There could be a case made that Quickness then coaching workload then other different coaches should be the priority check list you go through.
However, I don't know of the impact of workload of player growth vs getting good coaches without worrying about it. But if you are limited in coaches, this is what you should focus on.
Progress will be slower on the weekdays, but I hope to get the first part out on Thursday/Friday.
I have a question about your schedule. I saw it reduces the team cohesion and in a long term, it will be terrible, right? Does it affect or can affect games (like to be worse or something like that).
Good work! Thanks a lot.
I believe there are a couple of things that haven't been studied.
1. How is Team Cohesion acquired? Is it just through time spent with a team? Because it still grows throughout a year regardless.
2. How important is Team Cohesion for a team's performance? Because most players using the meta tactics will find that they are overperforming anyways.
Regardless, my focus is towards the growth of attributes towards weights that I created for the top tactic. Because if you have the better players, that is better than any in Football Manager.
doru228 said: @Han106 I have tweaked it for the first team, i get no more complains, if you fancy having a look and please test it to see how close it gets to the other training schedules.
https://fccadoni.medium.com/football-manager-2024-training-6cb30d32c9cd
On average MAW v1 wins out but in terms of positions he has won 3 of 7 which is the most.
EBFM moves to 3rd as Cadoni gets 2nd with his schedule.
I'm testing the Doru Tweak now.
Kamas1 said: Hi
How you rest players while using this schedule?
@Han106 there's something that i am wondering tho, if i should include consistency in the ratings, since a consistent player does get better ratings ingame (tested with same player, just consistency was modified over one season. difference was like 1.5 points between 1 consistency and 20, and about 0.75 between 10 and 20.)
results were like this:
1 consistency 6.50
10 consistency 7.12
20 consistency 7.76
all of the above over 40 games simulated, frozen attributes and no injuries on
You can include it in yours. However I don't include weights that aren't visible to the player. Seems great otherwise
Top 2 of each position
AMC 64.8/63.7
W 64.6/63.8
CB 62.9/62.8
DM 62.3/61.9
FB 63/62.8
GK 57.9/57.4
ST 65.6/65 <- Winner
Other than a win in ST, the rest of the positions seem to fall behind EBFM/MAW. I don't think it's a sample size problem in this case.
This is the 2 test results of MAW. All data is formatted in Alphabetical Position order(So AMC, AML/AMR, DCL/DCR, DR, DMC/DM, DL, GK, ST) because that's the best that FM Genie scout can do.
This is the 2 test results of EBFM.
Taking the Top 2 of each position and Clear winners. The Left side is MAW and Right side is EBFM.
AM(MAW) 66.6/65.9 vs 65.8/65.4
W(MAW) 65.6/64.6 vs 64.6/64.6
CB(MAW) 64/63.7 vs 63.7/63.6
FB(TIE) 63.5/63.4 vs 63.7/63.1
DM(TIE) 62.8/62.8 vs 63.2 vs 62.7
GK(EBFM) 58.1/57.9 vs 58.4/58
ST(TIE) 65.1/65 vs 65.1/64.1
This is the training schedule.
For the test file, matches are on Saturdays. I placed the foundational 11 on the left and the Defending Wides afterwards.
I will test other trainings either suggested, or increase sample size. I'm currently testing RDF Gengenpress Sat and General. I managed to at least catch up to EBFM's schedule. Depending on sample size, maybe his or mine win.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1m_r3Khn0YCMDi3dogwsYy1OggAuAdzd1?usp=sharing is link where I will put Tested Files.
To note, AMC seems to really benefit from additional focuses. DL/DR doesn't. I've bolded on the top ones that are high percent growth and high scoring. This data is from 1 season in his testing so perhaps multiple seasons of high growth will supplement your player's growth.
Goalkeepers and Outfield players start at around 53% and 58% respectively in the ratings. The max potential is around 80% and 85% respectively. These ratings are all from Genie Scout. So for example an AMC at age 15 taking Penalty Taking will raise 2% in a season. Training tests with EBFM's training schedule showed around 4% to 5% in a season at age 20. Not sure how they add together but I believe using both could redistribute your players attributes mold your players the way you want them too.
For most of your young players, I like the idea of increasing the intensity of workload via additional focus.
The testing of trainings is confusing me, but I did want to look at additional focuses to see if they are worth doing. I'm glad to see that they at least have their uses.
You can see the results here in the spreadsheet.
Happy FMing!
Feel free to look and please provide a feedback
https://www.mediafire.com/file/0pbx7cv1hsdtnta/attributes+doru.grf/file
Well I'm glad that my weight balance has some merit to it! Thanks!
Was I being too mean to Match Practice? Here's a table to find out.
So Resistance and Physical are on top like in Part 1 and double the Physicals rating of Match Practice.
The Match Practice training is really a all-around training. In my view, Match Practice doesn't train attributes the best. It's the best at being efficient, which is good if you are out of time in your week. However there are 2 cons.
1. It's a high intensity training. A 3 training day becomes a 2 training day if you aren't trying to kill your players.
2. It's not the best/top class at anything. Other trainings can fill its role better than Match Practice can.
I believe in a 2 match week, it's great for efficiency. HOWEVER, I have this untested belief that you could trade 2 match practice for 4 different trainings each and have your team be all-around better. Especially to help your Goalkeeper.
Last table for now. I think?
This is a 2nd table with all weighted attributes considered for all positions with Average of all positions on the right side.
A surprise here. With the usual suspects Defending, Match Practice, and Attacking, we have a hidden Handling at number 3 for best all-around training, and it's 3rd on the GK charts.
Match Practice, while not the best in either category is a great all-around training session.
Resistance and Physical both drop like a rock as they actually drop ratings from Technical and Mental.
What about Defending for outfield players + 1 defensive shadow play for the GK ?
GK's can improve until 30's but outfield players stop at age 26 generally(according to EBFM). So focusing on them is much more efficient i think and also keepers can play every match without getting tired so you can give them more game time.
Yes you are correct, that defending is the best for those players. However, Physical, Resistance, Attacking, and Defending are already in the Foundational 11 incomplete training schedule from Part 2. I wasn't clear on this but this is trying to figure out what are the best other than those 4 trainings.
This is the TOP 10 of non-CA Weighted Training Sessions for EACH POSITION using weights I designed for the top tactic on the FM24 Tactic Table.
With this caveat.
The Physical Trainings only weighted the Physical attributes + WorkRate and all the other trainings were weighted on everything other their Physical attributes.
Here are 2 observations.
1. Attacking Patient seems to be an Attacking Player's favorite meal. The Top training for the Attacking Midfielder and Striker. I have to wonder what if DL/DR and DM was also inserted into the Attacking Unit.
2. For the GK/Defensive Players, Defending Wide was the only Training in the TOP 10 for all 4 groups.
Unless, I really want to do more testing, these are the results gathered using EBFM's data.
I can do different formulas easier now for things like CA-Weighted or finding the best all-around training.
Eventually I'll test using Attacking Patient and Defending Wide, but for now you can explore the spreadsheet I've uploaded here.
If you have suggestions, I'm all ears. For now, I will explore what interests me on the day.
Happy FMing.
As a Bonus, this unscientific formula is how I made the Stamina weights.
Attacking unit players seem to be doing very well in all metrics. On the other hand, I believe Defending/Goalkeeping players might need more. I'll try adding 2 sessions on the Wednesday designed to try and improve these metrics for those 2 groups. But would moving Defensive players to the Attacking unit work as well?
I will try to test both tomorrow.