GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Yes, pressure is important. I first saw this when I came across Orion's FM22 test on it, and I think HarvestGreen has recently posted data for this for FM24 too. It's not as critical as pace/acc, because it seems that 10 or a bit even lower can be sufficient. I would speculate that it's going to be like work rate where 6 is the point beyond which returns start to tail off. But as we can see from the chart, pressure 10 > 20 is a 10% boost which is still highly significant (equivalent to 1 > 10 consistency or determination).
The weights are simply their values x 4 right now. So pressure 52/4 = 13. I'm actually yet to test pressure less than 13 yet, I suspect it could drop a point or two. You haven't asked about how weightings should be derived from attribute levels that work, but it touches on the matter. I don't want to get into this anyway, but let's just say there's no one way of approaching it. At the moment, I'm going for a transparent, simple approach, and I will be giving this more thought later. To give you a straightforward example of what I mean, consider pace/acc. 14-15 is necessary to finish ~5th, but a team of 13 will get you relegated. So perhaps one would say let's make that 56 weighting 100 instead, just to ensure you get at least 14 pace/acc. And for pressure, it's 52 weighting, but you only *really* need say ~6-10, with little benefit for 14+, so maybe let's make that 45 instead of 52. In a way that produces better results, but the formula is more opaque and perhaps more whimsical, and yet there are also other downsides/trade-offs too when you start thinking about this deeply.
I think I have accidentally used 4xDC 17 with 2xST (out of 4) 17 and the result wasn't noticeably different (hence I didn't realize until a bit later).
I've answered the balance & dribbling for DC question, it's because the key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions. Expand
Besdies pressure, what about other attributes, which need to do the manually filter? "important match"=10? 15?
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Marking, tackling, heading, positioning have zero or close to zero effect for all positions
Pressure is important (52), but is not included in the Genie Scout weightings because it really stuffs up Genie Scout's calculations if you put it in. I recommend instead using a filter of 8 and then manually assessing.
The key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions. There may be some positional differences, but so far I haven't found any. And as you can see from my old files, I was strongly inclined to believe in positional differences, so this isn't my laziness or what I want to believe, I'm just going by the results I see.
I will say that of all the positions, based on testing I've done in the past, the position most likely to have differences is DM (and probably by extension, MC and AMC).
Results I had regarding jumping reach differences:
DC 16 - 5th, 8th DC 15 - 8th, 10th 2xST 17, DC 13 - 4th Normal at the time (DC 17) was ~4th-5th
Can't find the 15< results, but from the above you can see that 17 > 16 is drop of ~2 positions, 17 > 15 is drop of ~5 positions. If you extrapolate, 14 would be bottom table, and 13 would be relegated. Maybe 13 survives, I can't remember, but I know it's bad in any case. Expand
1. If pressure has a weight 52, then it is super important, it is as important as acceleration and pace, isn't it? how much pressure is good? probably at least 15?
2. Are there any other attributes (just as pressure) which are important but you are not putting them into Genie Scout's calculations? I mean what else attributes (besides pressure) we need to manually filter them?
3. You use two ST with jump 17 to do the test, not DC, Did you ever use two DC with jumping 17 or 18 to test it?
4. Why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC?
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: You should use the new zhf2yl.grf file, it's the best for both FM24 and FM26. It hasn't been adjusted for FM26, but it wouldn't be much different.
In the old r5xm3t.grf file, DR is same as WBR because I didn't care about WBR, MC, AMC position as I used 424 Knap tactic and those extra positions would be double the work. This is still the case, however it turns out that all outfield positions share almost identical attribute requirements anyway.
I don't know if 2 jump would be better than 1 jump + 1 pace, but I would assume the former because if you have one jump player what happens when he gets substituted, injured, rested or whatnot. In fact, it's probably best to have 3-4 to be on the safe side.. but of course you're not going to have 4x 17 jump. A realistic outcome may end up like this: 16, 15, 15, 14.
For the Premier League, the pace/acc cutoff is ~14, and if you really need to, you can utilize the game's allowance for one player lacking this. So specifically your DC roster might look like this:
16 jump, 14 pace/acc (key player) - 29/38 league apps, 4/8 cup 15 jump, 15 pace/acc (first team) - 25/38 league, 4/8 cup 15 jump, 11 pace/14 acc (rotation) - 14/38 league, 4/8 cup 14 jump, 12 pace/acc (backup) - 6/38 league, 2/8 cup 12 jump, 10 pace/acc (youth hot prospect) - 2/38 league, 2/8 cup Expand
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Jumping reach isn't quite all or nothing, but there will be a steep drop off if you don't have what I suppose is the tallest player on the field. I'm not sure if it's one or two players you need, since I almost always use 2x 17 in my tests. They don't have to be both DC, but I think probably having 1 being DC is best (I think I vaguely remember testing 2x DC 17 vs 2x ST 17..). You can only get the best you can get, so if you can't get 17 unless it's some 36-year-old with 7 pace/acc, then go for 16.. 15.. etc.
I don't think you have loaded the correct file. I double checked, and the file in the OP (zhf2yl.grf) has 44 reflexes, 52 acceleration.
That info for GK is outdated. What I found is that reflexes hit diminishing returns after ~10-11. And there were some other surprises too. HarvestGreen found that reflexes is the most important attribute, but if you look at his test conditions, he is setting all attributes to 20 then reducing reflexes to 1. My inference is that this means reflexes requires a certain minimum to function properly, but it doesn't mean his data contradicts mine.
Yes Expand
1. I play FM26 so I use this file "r5xm3t.grf", in this file, GK setting is reflex=57, acc=1, could you check it please?
2. I also find in this file "r5xm3t.grf", DR(L) and WBR(L) have exactly same settings, why?
3. Is there a latest version of rating file for FM26?
4. I use 4 defenders tactics, and both my two DC are jumping reach =18, and both their pace are 15, Is this ideal? or should I choose one DC's jumping=18 pace=15, the other DC is jumping=15 but pace=20?
So "two high jumping DC" (pace relatively slow, pace=15), or "one high jump DC+ one fast pace DC", which case gives the best defending?
Hi, George, thank you for your great work! I have a question about Jumping reach, I read your post and you said it is a 1 or 0 thing, so if I understand correctly, Jumping needs to be greater or equal to 17, otherwise it is equivalent to zero, for example 16=0, is that right?
Another issue is about GK, I download your rating file from your OP, is that the latest one? (I assume you didn't put the latest one in those replies...), for GK, the file is to set reflex=57, acc=1, is that true?
I remember you said for GK, the most important attributes are reflex and agility, followed by acceleration, but why the reflex=57 rather than 99? why acceleration =1 for GK? Thank you!
The weights are simply their values x 4 right now. So pressure 52/4 = 13. I'm actually yet to test pressure less than 13 yet, I suspect it could drop a point or two. You haven't asked about how weightings should be derived from attribute levels that work, but it touches on the matter. I don't want to get into this anyway, but let's just say there's no one way of approaching it. At the moment, I'm going for a transparent, simple approach, and I will be giving this more thought later. To give you a straightforward example of what I mean, consider pace/acc. 14-15 is necessary to finish ~5th, but a team of 13 will get you relegated. So perhaps one would say let's make that 56 weighting 100 instead, just to ensure you get at least 14 pace/acc. And for pressure, it's 52 weighting, but you only *really* need say ~6-10, with little benefit for 14+, so maybe let's make that 45 instead of 52. In a way that produces better results, but the formula is more opaque and perhaps more whimsical, and yet there are also other downsides/trade-offs too when you start thinking about this deeply.
I think I have accidentally used 4xDC 17 with 2xST (out of 4) 17 and the result wasn't noticeably different (hence I didn't realize until a bit later).
I've answered the balance & dribbling for DC question, it's because the key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions.
Besdies pressure, what about other attributes, which need to do the manually filter? "important match"=10? 15?
I play FM26, is the file "zhf2yl" for FM26?
Pressure is important (52), but is not included in the Genie Scout weightings because it really stuffs up Genie Scout's calculations if you put it in. I recommend instead using a filter of 8 and then manually assessing.
The key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions. There may be some positional differences, but so far I haven't found any. And as you can see from my old files, I was strongly inclined to believe in positional differences, so this isn't my laziness or what I want to believe, I'm just going by the results I see.
I will say that of all the positions, based on testing I've done in the past, the position most likely to have differences is DM (and probably by extension, MC and AMC).
Results I had regarding jumping reach differences:
DC 16 - 5th, 8th
DC 15 - 8th, 10th
2xST 17, DC 13 - 4th
Normal at the time (DC 17) was ~4th-5th
Can't find the 15< results, but from the above you can see that 17 > 16 is drop of ~2 positions, 17 > 15 is drop of ~5 positions. If you extrapolate, 14 would be bottom table, and 13 would be relegated. Maybe 13 survives, I can't remember, but I know it's bad in any case.
1. If pressure has a weight 52, then it is super important, it is as important as acceleration and pace, isn't it? how much pressure is good? probably at least 15?
2. Are there any other attributes (just as pressure) which are important but you are not putting them into Genie Scout's calculations? I mean what else attributes (besides pressure) we need to manually filter them?
3. You use two ST with jump 17 to do the test, not DC, Did you ever use two DC with jumping 17 or 18 to test it?
4. Why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC?
In the old r5xm3t.grf file, DR is same as WBR because I didn't care about WBR, MC, AMC position as I used 424 Knap tactic and those extra positions would be double the work. This is still the case, however it turns out that all outfield positions share almost identical attribute requirements anyway.
I don't know if 2 jump would be better than 1 jump + 1 pace, but I would assume the former because if you have one jump player what happens when he gets substituted, injured, rested or whatnot. In fact, it's probably best to have 3-4 to be on the safe side.. but of course you're not going to have 4x 17 jump. A realistic outcome may end up like this: 16, 15, 15, 14.
For the Premier League, the pace/acc cutoff is ~14, and if you really need to, you can utilize the game's allowance for one player lacking this. So specifically your DC roster might look like this:
16 jump, 14 pace/acc (key player) - 29/38 league apps, 4/8 cup
15 jump, 15 pace/acc (first team) - 25/38 league, 4/8 cup
15 jump, 11 pace/14 acc (rotation) - 14/38 league, 4/8 cup
14 jump, 12 pace/acc (backup) - 6/38 league, 2/8 cup
12 jump, 10 pace/acc (youth hot prospect) - 2/38 league, 2/8 cup
Hi, George, In your file zhf2yl.grf , for DC,
marking = 0
tackling = 0
heading = 0
position = 0
pressure = 0
balance = 48
dribbling = 52
Do I download the correct file?
why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC?
Why the "pressure = 0", you said pressure is an important attribute in your previous post I remember...
In your opinion, how much difference between jump 18 and jump 16 for DC? How important for "high jump" to help DC to have more goals in corner kicks?
I don't think you have loaded the correct file. I double checked, and the file in the OP (zhf2yl.grf) has 44 reflexes, 52 acceleration.
That info for GK is outdated. What I found is that reflexes hit diminishing returns after ~10-11. And there were some other surprises too. HarvestGreen found that reflexes is the most important attribute, but if you look at his test conditions, he is setting all attributes to 20 then reducing reflexes to 1. My inference is that this means reflexes requires a certain minimum to function properly, but it doesn't mean his data contradicts mine.
Yes
1. I play FM26 so I use this file "r5xm3t.grf", in this file, GK setting is reflex=57, acc=1, could you check it please?
2. I also find in this file "r5xm3t.grf", DR(L) and WBR(L) have exactly same settings, why?
3. Is there a latest version of rating file for FM26?
4. I use 4 defenders tactics, and both my two DC are jumping reach =18, and both their pace are 15, Is this ideal? or should I choose one DC's jumping=18 pace=15, the other DC is jumping=15 but pace=20?
So "two high jumping DC" (pace relatively slow, pace=15), or "one high jump DC+ one fast pace DC", which case gives the best defending?
Another issue is about GK, I download your rating file from your OP, is that the latest one? (I assume you didn't put the latest one in those replies...), for GK, the file is to set reflex=57, acc=1, is that true?
I remember you said for GK, the most important attributes are reflex and agility, followed by acceleration, but why the reflex=57 rather than 99? why acceleration =1 for GK? Thank you!