I'm someone who frequently visits this site every few days because the competition for the rank 1 tactic in Football Manager 2024 is very fun to follow. Learning more from the top strategists and eagerly awaiting who can come up with the absolutely best strategy & formation is very interesting.
However, which tactics get chosen for 4000 or 2400 matches seems very random, as of now even the rank 2 tactic (Best of Both Worlds v3.3) only has 2400 matches instead of 4000.
When looking at views and downloads it seems like most people agree with me that the competition and strive towards finding the absolute top tactic in football manager is the most interesting part of this site.
Why is it a problem that some tactics have 4000, 2400 or 1200 matches towards the top? For those who do not know, RNG. The more matches -> the more reliable the data is. For example the tactic Grand DM Positive ( https://fm-arena.com/thread/7812-grand-dm-positive/ ) went from 63 Points in 1200 matches to 59 points in 2400 matches. That's a loss of 4 points, if a tactic can lose 4 points in the 1200->2400 match testing, I also assume that a tactic therefore can gain 4 points.
Instead of testing hundreds of different tactics where a lot of them are towards the bottom I propose testing the top tactics more and encourage this competition. How?
I'd like to propose a set of rules of which tactics should get 2400 & 4000 matches. The fact the 2nd spot has only 2400 is imo bad when it could either go up to rank 1 or drop down due to RNG.
The rules I propose are these: If 1200 matches and within 3 points of top tactic -> Get 2400 matches tested. (Since it could go +4 and potentially go up to rank 1 by the logic in the paragraph above). If 2400 matches and within 1 point of top tactic -> Get 4000 matches tested.
This would by todays standard mean this since the top tactic is currently 4231 Hegemony (through) underlap with 62 Points: Any tactic with 2400 matches at 61 points or above -> Get 4000 matches tested. Any tactic with 1200 matches at 59 points or above -> Get 2400 matches tested.
I do also think any tactic tied for the rank 1 spot should also get a 4000 -> 8000 matches test, but we've never had that many matches tested before I'm just including it as a minor footnote, perhaps 6000 is a good middle point not sure.
Now onto the potential issues. This means a lot more matches to test, that's going to take a lot of time! Yes, but currently we have hundreds upon hundreds of tactics that all get at least 1200 matches tested. Even the last positions in the table. They all have almost no views and also take valuable testing time. Instead of the 2nd position being at 2400 instead of 4000 matches, who'd care if tactic number 417 wasn't tested for example?
There are 2 ways to go about this, we currently have A LOT of tactics that are incredibly similar with only 1 tiny change in some instances, there could be some sort of rule enforced that any new tactic has to be more of a change than just 1 player instruction for example. Not entirely sure where the line is supposed to be drawn, but throwing the idea out there that changing a single PI and uploading shouldn't be enough imo. Something like AF Striker -> SS AMC would be a bigger change etc etc.
The second way would be to vet the tested tactics more, for example if you see a tactic that's obviously terrible then don't test it. An example would be a 3-2-5 with terrible instructions I found.
Cheers for reading & Best Regards Muukzor.
Love all the testing and data so far, by far the best database ever available for Football Manager tactics. Have a good one
Only 1200 games but 59 points so far looks very interesting! And here we were lead to believe more defensive wingers (As in further down the line, not the instruction) were much better in previous tactics! I wonder if this'd work with tactics like Re-Cookie VI or Cookie Shooter or if It'd just concede an insane amount of goals haha. (Since only 1 DM)
Has Double Wingers & 2 Inside Forwards instead of 3 Strikers.
Did well with PSG. Won the league, won champions league, won the super cup. Doesn't necessarily mean It's a good tweak since PSG are so strong, but curious how It'll do
The Wingers got ALOT of assists and the main goalscorer 72 goals o.O so less spread than the regular 3 Striker strategy. Good for that Haaland PL dream
Went invincible in French league (32 Wins, 2 Draws), won Champions league (Vs Newcastle in Finals of all teams) and won the French cup.
Not sure if better than the original, but I used the original strategy on my regular save (Without top team :P) and I hated wasting OMC potential, harder to find 3 proper strikers. Wanted to see how it performs, seems alright so far!
Hi! I saw the results of Extreme Chainsaw and they're very close to Alhamdulillah II, but it scores less, I then saw it has Supporting instead of Attacking IF when compared, I thought maybe if IF and Volantes are changes to attack they'd score more. Let's see!
All credit goes to original maker Delicious, I also put as not my tactic, mentioned his name and just the tweak in paranthesis, seemed like the smoothest way.
424 Extreme Chainsaw (Attack Tweak) - Attacking Volante & IF Spoiler
Sim number 1, not super impressive:
Delicious said: @Muukzor "original" maker, tell him to use XIV at least,btw i am curious too to see how it works on positive. Gonna find for you the screen
put it on the first page. Never mind he didn't put any single league screen Expand
You just posted the same screenshot from FM-Base as my initial post xD
I don't know if It's a copy or not, if it is, which tactic do you think he copied exactly?
Hi, good catch! That is very possible, I searched for both the name and DawidPL in the table but didn't find so posted, not sure if It has been updated since then or not on FMBase ^^
Only well performing tactic on FM-Base atm a few days after release. (At the point of writing 74 tactics tested) Let's try it All credit to original maker DawidPL just think FM-Arena is a better testing site.
No results were shared other than tactics testing results, so I'll attach a screenshot of those.
Moderator please feel free to edit anything if redirects to other sites are not ok, thx.
I'm someone who frequently visits this site every few days because the competition for the rank 1 tactic in Football Manager 2024 is very fun to follow. Learning more from the top strategists and eagerly awaiting who can come up with the absolutely best strategy & formation is very interesting.
However, which tactics get chosen for 4000 or 2400 matches seems very random, as of now even the rank 2 tactic (Best of Both Worlds v3.3) only has 2400 matches instead of 4000.
When looking at views and downloads it seems like most people agree with me that the competition and strive towards finding the absolute top tactic in football manager is the most interesting part of this site.
Why is it a problem that some tactics have 4000, 2400 or 1200 matches towards the top? For those who do not know, RNG. The more matches -> the more reliable the data is. For example the tactic Grand DM Positive ( https://fm-arena.com/thread/7812-grand-dm-positive/ ) went from 63 Points in 1200 matches to 59 points in 2400 matches. That's a loss of 4 points, if a tactic can lose 4 points in the 1200->2400 match testing, I also assume that a tactic therefore can gain 4 points.
Instead of testing hundreds of different tactics where a lot of them are towards the bottom I propose testing the top tactics more and encourage this competition. How?
I'd like to propose a set of rules of which tactics should get 2400 & 4000 matches. The fact the 2nd spot has only 2400 is imo bad when it could either go up to rank 1 or drop down due to RNG.
The rules I propose are these:
If 1200 matches and within 3 points of top tactic -> Get 2400 matches tested.
(Since it could go +4 and potentially go up to rank 1 by the logic in the paragraph above).
If 2400 matches and within 1 point of top tactic -> Get 4000 matches tested.
This would by todays standard mean this since the top tactic is currently 4231 Hegemony (through) underlap with 62 Points:
Any tactic with 2400 matches at 61 points or above -> Get 4000 matches tested.
Any tactic with 1200 matches at 59 points or above -> Get 2400 matches tested.
I do also think any tactic tied for the rank 1 spot should also get a 4000 -> 8000 matches test, but we've never had that many matches tested before I'm just including it as a minor footnote, perhaps 6000 is a good middle point not sure.
Now onto the potential issues. This means a lot more matches to test, that's going to take a lot of time!
Yes, but currently we have hundreds upon hundreds of tactics that all get at least 1200 matches tested. Even the last positions in the table. They all have almost no views and also take valuable testing time. Instead of the 2nd position being at 2400 instead of 4000 matches, who'd care if tactic number 417 wasn't tested for example?
There are 2 ways to go about this, we currently have A LOT of tactics that are incredibly similar with only 1 tiny change in some instances, there could be some sort of rule enforced that any new tactic has to be more of a change than just 1 player instruction for example. Not entirely sure where the line is supposed to be drawn, but throwing the idea out there that changing a single PI and uploading shouldn't be enough imo. Something like AF Striker -> SS AMC would be a bigger change etc etc.
The second way would be to vet the tested tactics more, for example if you see a tactic that's obviously terrible then don't test it. An example would be a 3-2-5 with terrible instructions I found.
Cheers for reading & Best Regards Muukzor.
Love all the testing and data so far, by far the best database ever available for Football Manager tactics. Have a good one
Shared 1st place is good tho, so gz. But was hoping for a 59 or even 58 pointer
Inspired by Zaz Wind 4.7: https://fm-arena.com/thread/4954-zaz-wind-4-7/
Has Double Wingers & 2 Inside Forwards instead of 3 Strikers.
Did well with PSG. Won the league, won champions league, won the super cup. Doesn't necessarily mean It's a good tweak since PSG are so strong, but curious how It'll do
The Wingers got ALOT of assists and the main goalscorer 72 goals o.O so less spread than the regular 3 Striker strategy. Good for that Haaland PL dream
Sorry, use both languages interchangably, didn't think of it, fixed.
Has an OMC SS instead of 3 Strikers.
Went invincible in French league (32 Wins, 2 Draws), won Champions league (Vs Newcastle in Finals of all teams) and won the French cup.
Not sure if better than the original, but I used the original strategy on my regular save (Without top team :P) and I hated wasting OMC potential, harder to find 3 proper strikers. Wanted to see how it performs, seems alright so far!
All necessary screenshots
Tactic
League Results
Team Stats
Results Part 1
Results Part 2
Using one spoiler per tactic & just renaming the thread (Example Delicious Tactic Collection) or something seems way more efficient.
Tactic & Result screenshots added.
All credit goes to original maker Delicious, I also put as not my tactic, mentioned his name and just the tweak in paranthesis, seemed like the smoothest way.
424 Extreme Chainsaw (Attack Tweak) - Attacking Volante & IF
Spoiler Sim number 1, not super impressive:
Sim number 2, looks better:
424 Extreme Chainsaw (Vol Atk Tweak) - Attacking Volante
Spoiler Tactic & Sim:
424 Extreme Chainsaw (IF Atk Tweak) - Attacking IF
Spoiler Tactic & Sim:
Hopefully we see some tests like ur others with Attacking IF/Volantes ^^ Maybe eek out a point haha.
Gz again! Curious, I thought IF Attacking were better than IF Supporting?
put it on the first page.
Never mind he didn't put any single league screen
You just posted the same screenshot from FM-Base as my initial post xD
I don't know if It's a copy or not, if it is, which tactic do you think he copied exactly?
https://fm-arena.com/thread/3169-win-everything-with-4132-dawidpl/
Hi, good catch! That is very possible, I searched for both the name and DawidPL in the table but didn't find so posted, not sure if It has been updated since then or not on FMBase ^^
No results were shared other than tactics testing results, so I'll attach a screenshot of those.
Moderator please feel free to edit anything if redirects to other sites are not ok, thx.
Best Regards.
Similar to how "World of the best tactic in fm23 by ntr master" tweaked the original "WestHammer_4231DM by MakeSuRE" with two AF Strikers I decided to tweak the new "WestHammer_4231_Invert by MakeSuRE".
Tactic Screenshot:
Credit obviously to @MakeSuRE for original tactic.
Hope it works well!
Result screenshot from Roma (Credit @Sigismund)