ZaZ said: Just post the tactic and a proof of the release date (like a link to the post). I don't know Knap, and I can't check all tactics around. Expand
Look knaps tactics up, you can see it for yourself.
Also, I wanna quote something you said yourself, in my thread:
Look, the discussion of plagiarism is nice and all, but it's not the type of matter that should be solved by fighting and making the issue public. My suggestion to handle those situations is to first contact the person with DM to make sure they know there is a similar tactic, and only if the issue is not solved people should bring it to the admins through the proper thread that was created. There is absolutely no need to bring issues to the admins if they can be solved with a simple DM to the user, which anyone can do.
Why are you going public now and not DM'ing the so called "Creator" yourself?
If you want I can't find you like a hundred similar looking tactic from FM21 and FM20.
The thing is, the game hasn't changed for many years and if you take any FM23 tactic then you can find a very similar tactic from FM19 or FM20 or FM21 or FM22. Expand
Aren't the same? Formation is the same, gods given instead of a DM it's a CM, the shape is the same.
Sandro said: At this point we really already seen everything when it comes to the tactics in FM and there just can't be anything new. Expand
So basically you're justifying people can copy other people their work and claim to be their own?
Chewbacca said: no one forces people to upload their tactics on this site and no one forces them to believe in the test result and no one's going to convince you of anything, if you don't trust then move along and end of the story Expand
I never said, that people should be forced to upload. Nor do I say to believe in the test results.
ZaZ said: I'm not going to argue with you. If you think my tactics are bad, it's fine. If you don't trust the results from FM-Arena, it's fine too. The fact that you don't understand that results can be different depending on the testing league says more about you than about me. Expand
Who says we have to argue? You're the one saying I'm "Complaining" and wanting to "Argue"
Yet I'm just calling your results out.
If the tactic is that good, the results on each testing league should be the same.
ZaZ said: I'm not going to bring Knap to the discussion, I respect the contribution he brings to the community.
About your complaints with results, I have uploaded my tactics to multiple places, and it just happened to be first here. There is nothing more to it. Different tests have different methodologies, which lead to different outcomes. You can even download the results from those testing places and check it yourself. I always answer everyone that talks to me in any of those places, it just happens that people talk more here because my tactic is better on the table. Expand
Ahum, so me calling out on your tactics only being top here, is complaining? Strange world we live in.
I'm only questioning those results, I'm not complaining. The fact that you are taking it as complaining, says more about you than about me.
rego8 said: this is why i dont like sites where knap is involved he spams the site with 1 million tactics and has his toxic followers beating down on anyone who gets close to his tactics what im really trying to say jeffdekker is piss off with your toxic shit back to knap before you get decked people are tired of you Expand
Funny how you call me toxic, while you are the one being toxic now, for saying I'm getting "decked"
Since when is having a different opinion being toxic? I'm not a "Follower" nor am I "Toxic".
And so what, you're gonna deck me? Better make up to your promise there, instead of only barking.
MakeSuRE said: Putting yourself into my position, what would you do to deal with these wildly arrogant burglars? Tell me the necessity that why I have to protest my innocence after being treated in this way? Expand
Prove that they are wrong, other than some screenshot which can be edited nowadays I still didn't see any proof.
Let's put it all up to debate, even if you took inspriation out of someone else his work, just say it. But take in account, that falsifying information is something that leds to believe the community is not taking it seriously.
Most here are so full up all of your asses, hurt by their pride, that all you do is act defensively.
When people act defensively all the time, you know you got them by the balls, because they got caught.
Muukzor said: @Delicious How about you stop being a conspiracy theorist and stop acting like a total ass towards reputable creators? They're currently #1 and #2 in the tables, I don't see any harm towards them contributing, there's only so many formations you can do, some tactics are bound to be similar. If you want them compared to Knaps or others, upload them yourself with proper credit so they can be compared and tested then.
Besides, @ZaZ has been calmer and way nicer to you than you deserve.
You're being a clown, stop being hostile, enjoy the game, enjoy the tactics, if you don't like it, leave. Expand
Explain to me how they are only #1 and #2 in Tests on FM-arena? Where in other tests they didn't come out on top of testing.
Knaps tactics have been tested in the past, but according to FM-arena tests, they never reached high numbers. Where on other tests they have, where is the logic in that?
Zaz tactics always hit top spots here but never anywhere else.
ZaZ said: When someone does a tweak to their tactics, like version 2.0, and the only difference is that they copied the set pieces from mine, then I believe credits should be given, like "Changed to the tactics used by ZaZ". I don't know why that sounds so absurd to you.
Anyway, I play FM for fun, not to get stressed, and I believe you are all blowing this out of proportion and making the environment uncomfortable to everyone. Users are also responsible for keeping the page enjoyable. There are proper channels to deal with issues, and if you don't use those channels, then you are becoming another issue that people have to deal. Remember that no one is saying the problem shouldn't be addressed, we are just telling to solve the problem without creating chaos in the page. Expand
Copying Set pieces or actually copying entire tactic with the same TI for 1 slight change, is not the same.
I thought this was a proper channel to deal with it? I understand you saying not on the page, but I had no clue where to address it, when Zippo called it out I did, we need to address this, it's making people believe a tactic someone made can be succesful while being completely copied from someone else.
That means you're not just lying to yourself, but you're lying to a community, and that imo is not done
MakeSuRE said: You have already sentenced me guilty. What's more would u like to hear from a criminal? One more question, does it feel good to dump shits on a stranger's head? Expand
Cause you still haven't convinced me that you didn't copy him. I'm not dumping shits, I'm calling you out, big difference in that
Bogeyman said: I've seen many times Knap taking successful tactics from here or other places then making few tweaks( even sometimes almost an exact copy) and not giving any credits... but of course, Knap is allowed to do so? Expand
Name 1 tactic where this has happened?
I know for a fact if Knap actually copies a tactic, he gives credit to the author, so show me proof where he didn't.
MakeSuRE said: My nice-words reply under ur previous post was deleted by admin. Go and ask admin if he can show u what I told.
Once once once again, can I ask u who u r? You seems to think highly of yourself, believing that FM Arena would shut down without you? Come on boy, the earth spins no matter u do or not do anything. Expand
I don't care if you make tactics good or not, but the moment you take like 99% of 1 tactic, change literally 1 thing alone and claiming to be yours, is something that is not done in my book.
At least give credit to the original creator if you copied, which you did.
And who I am, doesn't matter. I don't think highly of myself at all, but you clearly do, since you feel offended, which is good.
I also never said, that FM arena should be shut down, I'm saying that if this will be accepted, everyone can copy a tactic from someone and make literally 1 adjustment.
I won't be surprised if he's reached 10,000 number or something like that
Expand
I know Knap has 10000 different tactics, but the resemblance is just too much, just removing 1 TI and leaving everything else exactly the same and claiming it's your own, is not good
Look knaps tactics up, you can see it for yourself.
Also, I wanna quote something you said yourself, in my thread:
Look, the discussion of plagiarism is nice and all, but it's not the type of matter that should be solved by fighting and making the issue public. My suggestion to handle those situations is to first contact the person with DM to make sure they know there is a similar tactic, and only if the issue is not solved people should bring it to the admins through the proper thread that was created. There is absolutely no need to bring issues to the admins if they can be solved with a simple DM to the user, which anyone can do.
Why are you going public now and not DM'ing the so called "Creator" yourself?
Say something and do another right?
Don't see you saying anything like that Zaz.
Did I say formation? No.
Did I show the shape? Yes
Inspiration is clearly taken from Knap.
Even in 2019 he already made a tactic with the same shape.
You're doing a bad job of deflecting something.
Next time please read what Im actually saying
If you want I can't find you like a hundred similar looking tactic from FM21 and FM20.
The thing is, the game hasn't changed for many years and if you take any FM23 tactic then you can find a very similar tactic from FM19 or FM20 or FM21 or FM22.
Aren't the same?
Formation is the same, gods given instead of a DM it's a CM, the shape is the same.
Sandro said: At this point we really already seen everything when it comes to the tactics in FM and there just can't be anything new.
So basically you're justifying people can copy other people their work and claim to be their own?
Interesting.
On 2nd February, @ZaZ released his "ZaZ - Blue 3.2 AW" tactic, which topped the table.
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/2573-zaz-blue-3-2-aw/
then 3 days later on 5th February Knap released his Warrior tactic that looked very similar to ZaZ's Blue tactic
and on 9th May, Knap released another tactic that looked almost exactly like ZaZ's Blue tactic
I really don't see that Knap giving ZaZ any credit.
What do you think about it?
P.S. also, look at this FM22 tactic by Johnsariman... don't you find any similarities?
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/2703-the-airplane-by-johnsariman-v3-blue-tweak/
Funny you say this, we addressed this to Knap.
And hey look:
FM21, 2021.
So basically we can say, doesn't mean we will, Zaz took this inspiration from Knap.
Got anything to say for that?
I never said, that people should be forced to upload.
Nor do I say to believe in the test results.
Sure no worries.
If this site atleast tries to test tactics provided to them in the correct way
give links I want to check it
Ever heard of Google?
Not many sites started testing yet on FM23, when they do, I'll show you
It is though.
I've seen many tactics perform the same over 3 testing leagues, yet others not.
Care to elaborate?
Who says we have to argue?
You're the one saying I'm "Complaining" and wanting to "Argue"
Yet I'm just calling your results out.
If the tactic is that good, the results on each testing league should be the same.
About your complaints with results, I have uploaded my tactics to multiple places, and it just happened to be first here. There is nothing more to it. Different tests have different methodologies, which lead to different outcomes. You can even download the results from those testing places and check it yourself. I always answer everyone that talks to me in any of those places, it just happens that people talk more here because my tactic is better on the table.
Ahum, so me calling out on your tactics only being top here, is complaining?
Strange world we live in.
I'm only questioning those results, I'm not complaining.
The fact that you are taking it as complaining, says more about you than about me.
what im really trying to say jeffdekker is piss off with your toxic shit back to knap before you get decked people are tired of you
Funny how you call me toxic, while you are the one being toxic now, for saying I'm getting "decked"
Since when is having a different opinion being toxic?
I'm not a "Follower" nor am I "Toxic".
And so what, you're gonna deck me?
Better make up to your promise there, instead of only barking.
Prove that they are wrong, other than some screenshot which can be edited nowadays I still didn't see any proof.
Let's put it all up to debate, even if you took inspriation out of someone else his work, just say it.
But take in account, that falsifying information is something that leds to believe the community is not taking it seriously.
Most here are so full up all of your asses, hurt by their pride, that all you do is act defensively.
When people act defensively all the time, you know you got them by the balls, because they got caught.
Besides, @ZaZ has been calmer and way nicer to you than you deserve.
You're being a clown, stop being hostile, enjoy the game, enjoy the tactics, if you don't like it, leave.
Explain to me how they are only #1 and #2 in Tests on FM-arena?
Where in other tests they didn't come out on top of testing.
Knaps tactics have been tested in the past, but according to FM-arena tests, they never reached high numbers.
Where on other tests they have, where is the logic in that?
Zaz tactics always hit top spots here but never anywhere else.
Anyway, I play FM for fun, not to get stressed, and I believe you are all blowing this out of proportion and making the environment uncomfortable to everyone. Users are also responsible for keeping the page enjoyable. There are proper channels to deal with issues, and if you don't use those channels, then you are becoming another issue that people have to deal. Remember that no one is saying the problem shouldn't be addressed, we are just telling to solve the problem without creating chaos in the page.
Copying Set pieces or actually copying entire tactic with the same TI for 1 slight change, is not the same.
I thought this was a proper channel to deal with it? I understand you saying not on the page, but I had no clue where to address it, when Zippo called it out I did, we need to address this, it's making people believe a tactic someone made can be succesful while being completely copied from someone else.
That means you're not just lying to yourself, but you're lying to a community, and that imo is not done
One more question, does it feel good to dump shits on a stranger's head?
Cause you still haven't convinced me that you didn't copy him.
I'm not dumping shits, I'm calling you out, big difference in that
Name 1 tactic where this has happened?
I know for a fact if Knap actually copies a tactic, he gives credit to the author, so show me proof where he didn't.
Once once once again, can I ask u who u r? You seems to think highly of yourself, believing that FM Arena would shut down without you? Come on boy, the earth spins no matter u do or not do anything.
I don't care if you make tactics good or not, but the moment you take like 99% of 1 tactic, change literally 1 thing alone and claiming to be yours, is something that is not done in my book.
At least give credit to the original creator if you copied, which you did.
And who I am, doesn't matter. I don't think highly of myself at all, but you clearly do, since you feel offended, which is good.
I also never said, that FM arena should be shut down, I'm saying that if this will be accepted, everyone can copy a tactic from someone and make literally 1 adjustment.
Give in and credit the original author mate.
I won't be surprised if he's reached 10,000 number or something like that
I know Knap has 10000 different tactics, but the resemblance is just too much, just removing 1 TI and leaving everything else exactly the same and claiming it's your own, is not good
As discussed in https://fm-arena.com/thread/2707-please-help-us-to-establish-rules/#comment-15118
This tactic is clearly plagiarism: https://fm-arena.com/thread/2694-westhammer-4231dm-by-makesure/
This one is the same as https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/451185-fm23-and-fm22_fm-21-fm-20-fm-19-recommended-tactic-list/page/567/#comment-13768858
Only difference this one has not Play out of defense in "In Possession"
Please remove this or let him credit Knap for this.
If no action will be taken, we can't take this site serious.