Delicious said: If you want a clear explanation is something like : Mentality has passive,i didn't know that, maybe is something already well know around the world but i didn't know that,i've found out through the "few test ",i've made on Arena :P.
But even tho if that the case,why "for old meta tactics" that thesis ain't working? There is a deep ocean of hidden things that i really can't say w/o testing and more testing. I don't even think that deep line is giving something,but i might be wrong (like always)on my thoughts,i am sincerely stopped even watch the vacation test and going just by logic using Willy's test just because at the very moment i have nothing else and going for the 5th time to attempt a edit players (one by one) isn't something i have the will to do,there is something that really i am not understanding over it.
Back to the topic,so since we know now that some mentalities have(hidden passive), we know if we do apply META-rulesless "tactic's option", Fast example : Run at defence for me was giving nothing in reality on Attacking it giving to you -points and all other options, but that's is applying only if your players have new-meta pi's otherwise i can't understand how some tactics working on attack with those options on.
First of all, you have to understand a clear point : You have to start somewhere,for example everything become clear once i did the test with islam champ but just changing the mentality on positive. It's not like i am saying flyingcraps, you guys can go through the threads and understand the hell i put the poor arena test through.
If we know that Islam champ (attacking mentality) is giving 55 and for some reason Positive is giving 51 means something is happening,because i knew that i had 52 or 53 with other option on it(on positive) so basically just understand what kind of option can work on your shape is giving you the extra points that you are looking for. Now i am trying to figure out how balance work on the same prospective. I don't know nothing about that tactic you are working on,because for me is something that in order to play "in game" you need to rip-off your players and it's working here very well because the Test league really favor them. But, instead to focus on cosmetic,just focus on : (I repeat i didn't even test that tactic so i am just telling you what i would do if i wanted to attempt it).
Test balance : i would add on it focus play down left and right. But i don't know if you already doing it because of the ball of distribuition.(so basically you need to test one with different ball distribution and one with FPD active). And go on positive,or you can do a simple things just remove all the extra options and go on attacking and check what is coming out. I would even try cautions because it really test well for opq(he did destroyed many times my poor test league :P).
Counter-press is something that basically gives nothing,but stabilize your tactic(talking about numbers). That's why once i am done i am going to test all those option. You can understand it just looking at the numbers of the tactics, it's like you get +1 on "minimum" and -1 on "maximum", but what you are looking is to fight the "weakest rng number" then the stronger. @Zippo Dark Lord can you somehow translate what i am trying to say on "scientific" way, i mean that could be a good point for the community. And since my english is elementary or if someone understand what i am trying to explain here is welcome to put in a sense that everyone can understand it.
And we need to test if for real counter-press is working somehow with a lower defensive line or it's just cosmetic. Logically if i want to press on soccer i would stay the higher possible,even tho they can long-pass etc. If you are facing Salah on steroids not even putting 10 mans back gonna stop him.
But without futher test those are just my assumations. Expand
Think about it Counter-press = reaction to ball loss not the same thing as press line (high or low)
but of course reacting to the loss of the ball together is more effective
what do you think about putting possession in the table of tested tactics? To make it easier to identify the style of play of each tactic, that is, if it is counter attack or possession etc..
crizeKOS said: Yeah, but what I meant is that XMas dont has Counter Press. That why I asked u, to know if u could improve ur tactic by tweaking it off Expand
crizeKOS said: XMas have as well and it worked. Maybe coz ur IW are on attacking mode? Im seeing most of balanced tactics work better with Counter off and Attacking/Positive ones works better with it. I guess we will never know Expand
yes, it could be because of IW in attack. or lower defensive line too.
This is a broken defensive mode. 5 players do counter press and 5 players back lower line defense
crizeKOS said: This is just an example of how things are going in this moment just a specific sector of the field. We could discuss alot of other stuff, like the best back 3 config interactions for instance. WHY whe cant produce a back3 tactic to endure in the top of the table? Anyway, hope u guys understand what I'm trying to do here... Expand
crizeKOS said: @senna Did u try to remove the counter-press instruction? in my tests with this kind o shape and mentality they nerf alot my tactic. What u thoughts about this? Expand
Yes, I tried.. no works. I think because I have also high press instruction
crizeKOS said: I think may things can be discussed and be tangible. As we seeing frequently on the tests tactics with the RPM underpeforming alongside two BPDs while tactics with the DM (D) doing better. But there is one tactic on the table that made RPM perform and it was alongisde two regular CDs. So, we have to consider some interactions tiers too.
p.s I know football game and FM are way too complex but we need to start to find some patterns and share among ourselfs. Something being apparently chaotic doenst mean that is a random stuff may It is our ability to see the patterns that are limiting us. Expand
good observation, conclusions like these can be very good to help the FM community
crizeKOS said: Ppl alrdy doing this. Guys were tweaking Corsair and West Hammer for more than a month. Now is happening with the Wide Diamond formation. Expand
yes I understand. But a wide diamond formation with W or IW is completely different. That is, it is the same formation but the principles and the system are different.
normal defensive line
get stuck in
focus play middle
WB to IWB At
DLP to MC def
remove overlap and put underlap
more wide
much higher defensive line
DLP to support
Mez again to At
only chnage Mez At to Mez support
My first model 433 shape.
I tried to combine the philosophy that has given the best results with a 433 model
could you please test my tactic?
Follow the result of my last tactic.
Based khabib
some changes on PI's
Tested with Man Utd
working it
changes regarding Micuy 1.0
Mentality balanced to positive
IWB att to IWB support
managed to achieve stable results
Team, could you please test my last version?
But even tho if that the case,why "for old meta tactics" that thesis ain't working? There is a deep ocean of hidden things that i really can't say w/o testing and more testing.
I don't even think that deep line is giving something,but i might be wrong (like always)on my thoughts,i am sincerely stopped even watch the vacation test and going just by logic using Willy's test just because at the very moment i have nothing else and going for the 5th time to attempt a edit players (one by one) isn't something i have the will to do,there is something that really i am not understanding over it.
Back to the topic,so since we know now that some mentalities have(hidden passive), we know if we do apply META-rulesless "tactic's option", Fast example : Run at defence for me was giving nothing in reality on Attacking it giving to you -points and all other options, but that's is applying only if your players have new-meta pi's otherwise i can't understand how some tactics working on attack with those options on.
First of all, you have to understand a clear point : You have to start somewhere,for example everything become clear once i did the test with islam champ but just changing the mentality on positive.
It's not like i am saying flyingcraps, you guys can go through the threads and understand the hell i put the poor arena test through.
If we know that Islam champ (attacking mentality) is giving 55 and for some reason Positive is giving 51 means something is happening,because i knew that i had 52 or 53 with other option on it(on positive) so basically just understand what kind of option can work on your shape is giving you the extra points that you are looking for.
Now i am trying to figure out how balance work on the same prospective.
I don't know nothing about that tactic you are working on,because for me is something that in order to play "in game" you need to rip-off your players and it's working here very well because the Test league really favor them.
But, instead to focus on cosmetic,just focus on :
(I repeat i didn't even test that tactic so i am just telling you what i would do if i wanted to attempt it).
Test balance : i would add on it focus play down left and right. But i don't know if you already doing it because of the ball of distribuition.(so basically you need to test one with different ball distribution and one with FPD active).
And go on positive,or you can do a simple things just remove all the extra options and go on attacking and check what is coming out.
I would even try cautions because it really test well for opq(he did destroyed many times my poor test league :P).
Counter-press is something that basically gives nothing,but stabilize your tactic(talking about numbers). That's why once i am done i am going to test all those option. You can understand it just looking at the numbers of the tactics, it's like you get +1 on "minimum" and -1 on "maximum", but what you are looking is to fight the "weakest rng number" then the stronger. @Zippo Dark Lord can you somehow translate what i am trying to say on "scientific" way, i mean that could be a good point for the community. And since my english is elementary or if someone understand what i am trying to explain here is welcome to put in a sense that everyone can understand it.
And we need to test if for real counter-press is working somehow with a lower defensive line or it's just cosmetic. Logically if i want to press on soccer i would stay the higher possible,even tho they can long-pass etc. If you are facing Salah on steroids not even putting 10 mans back gonna stop him.
But without futher test those are just my assumations.
Think about it
Counter-press = reaction to ball loss
not the same thing as press line (high or low)
but of course reacting to the loss of the ball together is more effective
My new formation with Unlogic team instructions
Xmax tree shape
I did a little test but the result not was the better.
trying to improve
what do you think about putting possession in the table of tested tactics?
To make it easier to identify the style of play of each tactic, that is, if it is counter attack or possession etc..
Okay. Thanks
Could I try without counter press and lower block
Im seeing most of balanced tactics work better with Counter off and Attacking/Positive ones works better with it.
I guess we will never know
yes, it could be because of IW in attack. or lower defensive line too.
This is a broken defensive mode. 5 players do counter press and 5 players back lower line defense
Back3
I'm working on it. but it's not easy
Yes, I tried.. no works.
I think because I have also high press instruction
p.s I know football game and FM are way too complex but we need to start to find some patterns and share among ourselfs. Something being apparently chaotic doenst mean that is a random stuff may It is our ability to see the patterns that are limiting us.
good observation, conclusions like these can be very good to help the FM community
yes I understand.
But a wide diamond formation with W or IW is completely different. That is, it is the same formation but the principles and the system are different.