I'll share my stupidity in hopes that it helps someone else. I was changing the config file and then running NewGan (like an idiot), but after a couple of tries and it not working, I realized that I had to run NewGan, then change the config file, then reload skin.
For me to I tend to look at core attributes and then add some crucial attributes for that role. So Acceleration and Pace is a must, I tend to not got for players who have less than 14 in both. I then look at Agility, Balance and Anticaption. Adding Jumping Reach for defenders and strikers as well as Finishing for strikers. I add Work Rate for any demanding roles like wing backs or box to box midfielders.
I pretty much focus on the attributes on the attributes testing table https://fm-arena.com/table/18-attribute-testing/. I think its pretty comprehensive considering they have tested each attribute for nearly 3000 matches Expand
The analysis done by fm-arena referenced earlier was a great start and the best they could do with the resources at their disposal. The analysis done on the Chinese forum, from where the table I posted a few comments ago originated, was more in-depth and position-specific. I doubt that a more comprehensive analysis has been conducted.
I see this topic as a philosophical one. Although there are many, many variables, at the end of the day this is a computer program, so there is an answer as to what is most important because it's coded that way. However, if you find a way of evaluating players that works for you and enhances your enjoyment of the game, then, by all means, do it. Some folks enjoy the pursuit of optimization and it's an important part of FM for them. Hopefully, they continue to share their work on this forum so we can all benefit from their obsession, I mean passion.
CBP87 said: Can you put this into some context please, at what value does an attribute become important for that position? Expand
The full thread will give you all the context you ever wanted. As Rhumble pointed out, ZaZ used 50 as the cutoff, but it's all on a 100-point scale so it should be easy enough to gauge relative importance.
Yarema said: I didn't say it's worthless. But people expect massive changes because of it and it is simply not true in practice. From my experience you can get maybe 1-2 additional points in the selected attributes over the course of whole career. If you are lucky. Some focuses work better than others, some I'd argue don't even work. Expand
I think you're right, but 1-2 points when you're best players are improving an attribute by 6-7 points is a pretty big deal.
I think it's pretty clear and the work done by some of the users here has been amazing. Check out the chart below. The higher the number, the more important the attribute.
I'll put in a plug for XBox Gamepass (I have no affiliation though, I swear). You can regularly find deals on Eneba or other sites that give you 50 days of Gamepass Ultimate for less than $9. That's about $60 a year and it is confirmed that it will include FM24.
Yarema said: I feel like individual training is vastly overrated or rather people obsess with it way too much. The effects really aren't that large. You won't get someone with 6 positioning to 16 over the course of his career because of it. He'll naturally go from 6 to lets say 11 just with GK/SK training, and if you put him on individual training that involves positioning throughout his whole career you might get him to 12 or 13. All of these numbers apply for a guy from intake with great development and high potential. If you buy him at 18, develops less than ideally and/or just doesn't have elite potential you can easily half the numbers. Expand
If you've seen the EBFM video on individual training, it's definitely worthwhile. It let's you maximize the player's most important attributes (Pace & Acceleration), shore up weaknesses (that 12 finishing on an otherwise godly striker), and ensures that CA is going to the desired attributes (no more off the ball for your CB).
That being said, I agree that there is no need to obsess.
Sanassy09 said: but then which attribute should be targeted for our recruitment? Is the minimum 15 for the attributes? Expand
Different attributes for different positions. There was a long discussion about this on the forums. https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/10974/ is the most relevant post.
@Falbravv I'm pretty sure natural fitness was tested and found to have no effect on the degradation of stats due to age whatsoever. I don't remember where I heard/read it, but I remember it was from a reliable source (Mark or ZaZ here or EBFM maybe).
This is a tough question to answer because, from what I can tell, the CA "cost" of an attribute isn't linear (i.e., the cost of taking reflexes from 19 to 20 is higher than taking it from 9 to 10). To complicate matters further, some stats cost more than others. For example, increasing reflexes eats up more CA than Positioning (again, just my own testing with the editor).
All that being said, I don't think you can go wrong with training reflexes for keepers. It hits reflexes, anticipation, and concentration, which are three of the most important non-physical stats for keepers. Tactical helps positioning, communications, and decisions which are less important.
Theoretically, there should be a formula that takes into account current stats, PA, CA, and stat importance to spit out what you should train. If you find it, let me know!
Sorry, I'm probably being dense, but what's the difference between a "Midfielder" and a "Winger"? I assume that a Winger is what you call MRL in your individual ratings because you suggest they train crossing.
If this is true, my next question is about how to interpret the ratings in Genie Scout. Are you using the position ratings? I don't see a Winger role in the player columns options, only specific Winger positions and the ratings don't seem to be in line with what I'm accustomed to seeing (I'm using ykykyk balanced).
@ZaZ@Mark wondering if you guys made any changes to your individual training routine after taking a look at Max's analysis on the topic? I was in the "only quickness for outfield" mindset, but that seems to be the wrong approach given the negligible difference in Pace/Acc attributes from the testing. I'm thinking it makes the most sense to improve weaknesses or key attributes even though it may be at the cost of other (hopefully) less important ones, but would love to get your thoughts.
Maybe this isn't the right place for this question, but if anyone knows the answer it's @ZaZ .
From a player development standpoint, should I prioritize a tactic that maximizes one of the testing variables? In other words, will a tactic with 74 GF, but 69 GA help/hurt development vs. a tactic that tests at 65 GF and 58 GA?
Do you tailor your tactic to your player's strengths (without drastically changing the tactic) or stick to the tactic and find players who are a more natural fit? I've been doing the latter, but find it increasingly difficult as I recruit better and better players.
The follow-up question is whether learning more about tactics is worth the time investment. I understand most game mechanics pretty well at this point, but I've held off on messing with tactics because I know very little about soccer (see, I called it soccer). They seem like the most complicated part of this game by far.
Chewbacca said: Do you mean whether people like it or not? Expand
Sure. What do you like? What don't you like? What still needs improving? Can you tell that the specific changes outlined in the patch notes were implemented? Or maybe you've noticed no change at all.
ta2199 said: I often move some talents to first team but still make him available for u18/u21 squad for 90 mins. In that way, he still can be in the first team when required and still have the game time in U18/21 squad Expand
Aren't they just missing even more training if they aren't playing with the first team though? They miss training during their games and during the senior squad games.
I was going to do a low-budget, non-statistically significant test and just sim it both ways (one where he's on the first team and one where he stays on the U18 squad for the remainder of the year), but it took waaaaay too long. I have a newfound appreciation for all of the testing everyone does for the community so...thanks!
For me to I tend to look at core attributes and then add some crucial attributes for that role. So Acceleration and Pace is a must, I tend to not got for players who have less than 14 in both. I then look at Agility, Balance and Anticaption. Adding Jumping Reach for defenders and strikers as well as Finishing for strikers. I add Work Rate for any demanding roles like wing backs or box to box midfielders.
I pretty much focus on the attributes on the attributes testing table https://fm-arena.com/table/18-attribute-testing/. I think its pretty comprehensive considering they have tested each attribute for nearly 3000 matches
The analysis done by fm-arena referenced earlier was a great start and the best they could do with the resources at their disposal. The analysis done on the Chinese forum, from where the table I posted a few comments ago originated, was more in-depth and position-specific. I doubt that a more comprehensive analysis has been conducted.
I see this topic as a philosophical one. Although there are many, many variables, at the end of the day this is a computer program, so there is an answer as to what is most important because it's coded that way. However, if you find a way of evaluating players that works for you and enhances your enjoyment of the game, then, by all means, do it. Some folks enjoy the pursuit of optimization and it's an important part of FM for them. Hopefully, they continue to share their work on this forum so we can all benefit from their obsession, I mean passion.
The full thread will give you all the context you ever wanted. As Rhumble pointed out, ZaZ used 50 as the cutoff, but it's all on a 100-point scale so it should be easy enough to gauge relative importance.
I think you're right, but 1-2 points when you're best players are improving an attribute by 6-7 points is a pretty big deal.
If you've seen the EBFM video on individual training, it's definitely worthwhile. It let's you maximize the player's most important attributes (Pace & Acceleration), shore up weaknesses (that 12 finishing on an otherwise godly striker), and ensures that CA is going to the desired attributes (no more off the ball for your CB).
That being said, I agree that there is no need to obsess.
Is the minimum 15 for the attributes?
Different attributes for different positions. There was a long discussion about this on the forums. https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/10974/ is the most relevant post.
All that being said, I don't think you can go wrong with training reflexes for keepers. It hits reflexes, anticipation, and concentration, which are three of the most important non-physical stats for keepers. Tactical helps positioning, communications, and decisions which are less important.
Theoretically, there should be a formula that takes into account current stats, PA, CA, and stat importance to spit out what you should train. If you find it, let me know!
Sorry, I'm probably being dense, but what's the difference between a "Midfielder" and a "Winger"? I assume that a Winger is what you call MRL in your individual ratings because you suggest they train crossing.
If this is true, my next question is about how to interpret the ratings in Genie Scout. Are you using the position ratings? I don't see a Winger role in the player columns options, only specific Winger positions and the ratings don't seem to be in line with what I'm accustomed to seeing (I'm using ykykyk balanced).
I appreciate the help!
Bill
From a player development standpoint, should I prioritize a tactic that maximizes one of the testing variables? In other words, will a tactic with 74 GF, but 69 GA help/hurt development vs. a tactic that tests at 65 GF and 58 GA?
Thanks!
Do you tailor your tactic to your player's strengths (without drastically changing the tactic) or stick to the tactic and find players who are a more natural fit? I've been doing the latter, but find it increasingly difficult as I recruit better and better players.
The follow-up question is whether learning more about tactics is worth the time investment. I understand most game mechanics pretty well at this point, but I've held off on messing with tactics because I know very little about soccer (see, I called it soccer). They seem like the most complicated part of this game by far.
Cheers!
Sure. What do you like? What don't you like? What still needs improving? Can you tell that the specific changes outlined in the patch notes were implemented? Or maybe you've noticed no change at all.
Aren't they just missing even more training if they aren't playing with the first team though? They miss training during their games and during the senior squad games.