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Patch 23.2.0 tests
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Test #1
Date: 25.12.2022
Test #2
Date: 25.12.2022
Test #3
Date: 25.12.2022
Test #4
Date: 25.12.2022
Test #5
Date: 25.12.2022
Test #6
Date: 25.12.2022

Senjutsu I is based on It's XMAS_twkd3 and the feedbacks that we had today be the tests made on the forum.

Senjutsu I

Base Tactic: It's XMAS_twkd3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16759/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- shorter passing for the attacking roles exchanged by shoot less often
- BWM (D) instead of DM (D) - nobody tried this
- AF's player swap like the Corsair tactic that endured so long at the #1 spot of the table
- FM arena set pieces routine added

As u guys may see by the results Chelsea underperformed along the season. So I may assume that the shoot less often PI weakens the tactic or the ball winning midfielder roaming and pressing around.

Ty once again ^^

Spoiler


Senjutsu II - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17286/
Senjutsu III- https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17311/
Senjutsu IV - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17345/
Senjutsu V - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17374/
Senjutsu VI (RIP SS) - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17378/
Senjutsu VII - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17606/
Senjutsu VIII - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17639/
Senjutsu VIX - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17655/
Senjutsu X - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17658/
Senjutsu XI - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17702/

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crizeKOS said: Senjutsu I is based on It's XMAS_twkd3 and the feedbacks that we had today be the tests made on the forum.

Senjutsu I

Base Tactic: It's XMAS_twkd3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16759/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- shorter passing for the attacking roles exchanged by shoot less often
- BWM (D) instead of DM (D) - nobody tried this
- AF's player swap like the Corsair tactic that endured so long at the #1 spot of the table
- FM arena set pieces routine added

As u guys may see by the results Chelsea underperformed along the season. So I may assume that the shoot less often PI weakens the tactic or the ball winning midfielder roaming and pressing around.

Ty once again ^^



I tried BWM alot ._. and it's not even near to a normal pivot (def),you can't really assume something from vacation,that run doesn't mean nothing,maybe was mega bad run you don't know that, but you can just compare your data (from the previous test) with this one. Would be great if we could see, player stats and team stats from the results!

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Delicious said: I tried BWM alot ._. and it's not even near to a normal pivot (def),you can't really assume something from vacation,that run doesn't mean nothing,maybe was mega bad run you don't know that, but you can just compare your data (from the previous test) with this one. Would be great if we could see, player stats and team stats from the results!

Yeah, we need to create our own metrics too. BWM is that way worse? @Delicious

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Delicious said: Would be great if we could see, player stats and team stats from the results!

For the previous FM versions we uploaded game saves for each test but we found people weren't too interest in that so we decided that it isn't worth bothering.

But if you're interested in some player data I can upload game saves for you.

If we see there's a great demand for game saves then we can consider uploading them again.

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crizeKOS said: Yeah, we need to create our own metrics too. BWM is that way worse? @Delicious

unlikely yes, the only thing can be compared to a DM is the regista but i am not pretty sure if you can put it on def(tried only on (SU) way)and still you need to make a setup for it,if i were you i would have tried regista on this kind of tactic,since you protect him with iwb and dw.

But still,i have a league setuped similar to Arena,but it's not giving the same results,so if we trying to measure things with different parametrers it's just gonna lead it on a wrong direction,i might be wrong,i mean to be "sure" you should just change piece by piece, test piece by piece.
That's what i am doing but without the leading (arena test) it would be like nosense.

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Zippo said: For the previous FM versions we uploaded game saves for each test but we found people weren't too interest in that so we it isn't worth bothering.

But if you're interested in some player data I can upload game saves for you.

If we see there's a great demand for game saves then we can start uploading them again.


I have one question, can we run small changing things here? Like for example, XMas_twkd3 with just a BWM alteration. Then XMas_twkd3 without passing shorter PI's and just working ball into the box. Etc...

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Delicious said: unlikely yes, the only thing can be compared to a DM is the regista but i am not pretty sure if you can put it on def(tried only on (SU) way)and still you need to make a setup for it,if i were you i would have tried regista on this kind of tactic,since you protect him with iwb and dw.

But still,i have a league setuped similar to Arena,but it's not giving the same results,so if we trying to measure things with different parametrers it's just gonna lead it on a wrong direction,i might be wrong,i mean to be "sure" you should just change piece by piece, test piece by piece.
That's what i am doing but without the leading (arena test) it would be like nosense.


Yeah, sometimes I feel like it just a math sheet. If u put a regista (s) instead a dm (d) u should changing something out there like iwb (s) to compensate something... sometimes im just lost and losing direction, im getting kinda tired. I ll try to improve my methods b4 put stuff into test.

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Senjutsu II

Base Tactic:
It's XMAS_twkd3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16759/
Useless_4-4-2 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16897/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- changing in the roles making the tactic assymetrical
- changing in overall PI's (I would to like highlight SS tweak roam from position, I feel like this may a PI that will improve things up once it may allow this role to be more useful in attacking transitions).

I was comparing the tests logs of the 2 tactics on the top of the table (Xmas and Useless). I've noticed that XMas defends way better while Useless scores way more. So I thought, why do not bring the best of the two worlds?

Ty

Spoiler

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Zippo said: For the previous FM versions we uploaded game saves for each test but we found people weren't too interest in that so we decided that it isn't worth bothering.

But if you're interested in some player data I can upload game saves for you.

If we see there's a great demand for game saves then we can consider uploading them again.


For me that's the most important thing,because you can actually see and compare, but i do understand even the "amount of work" that is behind that,i mean as i said it's really hard to say if a "role" is perfoming better then another if the only tool i have are "vacation" that's not even a method but people didn't notice that yet,or creating something like i did or a custom league were you can "try" to test things out,what i am gonna ask could sound crazy and stupid but what if Arena Staff create like a mini league example something 2 groups or something that we can use to run test with FMRTE or whatever to freeze,(because otherwise is gonna be like a normal vacation but with even more RNG inside).

About the past i really don't know nothing how it was or stuff like,it's sad to hear that people weren't interested on free data :|

crizeKOS said: Yeah, sometimes I feel like it just a math sheet. If u put a regista (s) instead a dm (d) u should changing something out there like iwb (s) to compensate something... sometimes im just lost and losing direction, im getting kinda tired. I ll try to improve my methods b4 put stuff into test.
That's good,imagine i am doing this since i've started to post the first tactic and still i need the massive support from the test otherwise i would be already lost in the space.

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crizeKOS said: Senjutsu II

Base Tactic:

It's XMAS_twkd3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16759/
Useless_4-4-2 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16897/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- changing in the roles making the tactic assymetrical
- changing in overall PI's (I would to like highlight SS tweak roam from position, I feel like this may a PI that will improve things up once it may allow this role to be more useful in attacking transitions).

I was comparing the tests logs of the 2 tactics on the top of the table (Xmas and Useless). I've noticed that XMas defends way better while Useless scores way more. So I thought, why do not bring the best of the two worlds?

Ty


maybe the IWB on defensive role was too agressive, lmao
my tests the support role are performing way better

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Senjutsu III

Base Tactic: Senjutsu II

Changes made to the base tactic:

- run at defense removed (tried to cfg certain roles with drible more instead)
- iwb on support
- passing it shorter/shoot less often removed from everyone (work ball into box added)

Here my results with Nott Forest:

Spoiler

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Senjutsu IV

Base Tactic: Senjutsu III + feedbacks from today by the testers

Changes made to the base tactic:

- run at defense restaured
- be more expressive
- alot of little tweaks on PIs (changed the logic behind supporting roles and attacking ones)
- low crosses added
- passing shorter added
- distribute to the flanks removed
- SK on Attacking now

Spoiler

1

good luck mate

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Senjutsu V

Base Tactic: All Senjutsus + feedbacks from today by the testers

Changes made to the base tactic:

- pass directness: passing much shorter added
- low crosses added
- removed distribution type
- SK back to support role
- AM(S) instead of SS
- alot of small tweaks in PIs (tried to keep it cleaner, back for my gameplay essence)

Spoiler

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Senjutsu VI (RIP Shadow Striker)

Base Tactic: XMas_twkd3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16759/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- I've this friend of mine that created a custom tactic league (nothing compared with the job ur guys are doing here). Today he ran some tests that I asked him and the only thing that managed to improve Xmas_twkd3 was a Trequartista in the SS place. For that reason I'm asking u guys to test this to be able to ratify the tests we ran in the last hours and the fact that shadows strikers are hugely nerfed in FM23. @MemorizableUsername notice that too, if im not mistaken. That something that feels weird in wide diamond tactics, and is the SS role.

- I tried a holiday run with Chelsea and this time the role was able to perform rly good, being the best position of the season.

Anyway... as we saw today by the forum results some guys rly improved their wide diamond shapes with AMs

One thing I would like u guys to take notice is that TQ has the same level o press triggerin than SS despite he have the PI "easy on tackles" hardcoded. Furthermore if u compare the 3 positions TQ would be somehow a midterm in terms of attacking role...

Spoiler



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crizeKOS said: Senjutsu VI (RIP Shadow Striker)

Base Tactic: XMas_twkd3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16759/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- I've this friend of mine that created a custom tactic league (nothing compared with the job ur guys are doing here). Today he ran some tests that I asked him and the only thing that managed to improve Xmas_twkd3 was a Trequartista in the SS place. For that reason I'm asking u guys to test this to be able to ratify the tests we ran in the last hours and the fact that shadows strikers are hugely nerfed in FM23. @MemorizableUsername notice that too, if im not mistaken. That something that feels weird in wide diamond tactics, and is the SS role.

- I tried a holiday run with Chelsea and this time the role was able to perform rly good, being the best position of the season.

Anyway... as we saw today by the forum results some guys rly improved their wide diamond shapes with AMs

One thing I would like u guys to take notice is that TQ has the same level o press triggerin than SS despite he have the PI "easy on tackles" hardcoded. Furthermore if u compare the 3 positions TQ would be somehow a midterm in terms of attacking role...







Also I can't live my FM Fantasy with Arda Guler playing as SS ;)

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Senjutsu VII

Base Tactic: It's XMAS_twkd3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16759/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- run at defence removed
- be expressive added

Im so stupid sometimes, how I didnt come with this one b4? Please someone kill me

Spoiler

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Senjutsu VIII

Base Tactic: Senjutsu VII - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17606/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- run at defence removed
- be expressive added
- removed passing shorter from everyone
- whipped crosses added

Spoiler

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Senjutsu VIX

Base Tactic: Senjutsu VIII - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17639/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- pushed W higher to the field

This probably wont lead to anything but I want to ratify how much Khabib tactical teamplate is OP.

Spoiler

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Senjutsu X

Base Tactic: Senjutsu VIX - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17655/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- changed the W by the IW

Spoiler

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Senjutsu XI

Base Tactic: It's XMAS_twkd3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16759/

Changes made to the base tactic:

- focus  play down the flanks added
- passing shorter PI's removed
- keeper distribuction changed + sk (d)

I want to see how it behave without passing shorter/low crosses

Spoiler

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Hell on Earth

Base Tactic: all above https://fm-arena.com/thread/3128-senjutsu/

As u guys were able to see these two tactics performed the same.

Senjutsu VII - https://fm-arena.com/tactic/3862-senjutsu-vii/
Senjutsu X - https://fm-arena.com/tactic/3876-senjutsu-x

Of course there is nothing guaranted and RNG plays a big deal in most tests. Anyway, it seemed to me that in this 442 wide diamond shape (with the XMAS_twkd3 tactical teamplate on it) that being more expressive may work better with focus on mid while run at defense may work better with focus on flanks. So, this is the final Senjutsu, my last checking.

Spoiler

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