ZaZ - Blue

by Prutton, 27 days ago

Mark said: @Prutton I have started with St Albans predicted 16th Vanarama South. Halfway through the season with ZaZ Blue 2.0 and on top with 17-2-1 record. Really havent been able to get players I want for the roles in Zaz Blue. Thinking of changing maybe 3 of the positional roles to better to suit the squad but keeping structure and leaving positional instructions as close as I can. What do you think? And loving your tactics by the way.

Good thing it's working well for you. About positions, I usually ignore the opinion of Assistant manager that players are not good as IWB or DW. I think it's more of a visual thing, because as long as they can play the position, they usually do the role well. If you want more conventional roles, you can always try Red 2.0, which has a similar performance and uses WB and W instead of IWB and DW.

If you really want to change roles, then be careful. Some changes make no difference at all, like changing DW for W or DLP for DM, while others can actually make your team perform worse, because they change how the game flows and how your team defends.

ta2199 said: 7 Penalty in a match ! :D

Stop bribing the referees.

+1

ta2199 said: 7 Penalty in a match ! :D

How is that even possible:woot:

0

By the way, 7 penalties with ZaZ 1.0 or 2.0?

0

@Prutton

Why don't you test this tactic on FM base?

0

OpticFawn said: @Prutton

Why don't you test this tactic on FM base?


Maybe I will. I wanted them to test Blue 2.0 and Red 2.0 here, though, since they are my final versions for this patch and I wanted to know if they are really better or not. I guess they just don't match the requirements for new tests, since they are just a final polish.

+1

Prutton said: By the way, 7 penalties with ZaZ 1.0 or 2.0?

2.0
I want to try how Steven Gerrard's life is :D But turn out it was too easy with 40+ goals after 6 matches I deciced to stop.

Also just have an intense save with Stutgart

+2

ta2199 said: 2.0
I want to try how Steven Gerrard's life is :D But turn out it was too easy with 40+ goals after 6 matches I deciced to stop.

Also just have an intense save with Stutgart


Having tested both 1.0 and 2.0, which do you prefer?

Anyway, nice crown with Stuttgart. Not easy to win in Germany without the top teams. It's a very unfair League, very similar to Spain.

+1

Prutton said: Having tested both 1.0 and 2.0, which do you prefer?

Anyway, nice crown with Stuttgart. Not easy to win in Germany without the top teams. It's a very unfair League, very similar to Spain.


2 for sure

+1

@Zippo, what are the requirements to have this final version of Blue tested? Is there a minimum number of people approving it or it needs it's own topic?

Edited 5 days ago by Prutton
0

I have a little tweak (if it could be called a tweak at all) - set attacking mentality while playing vs teams weaker than you. It allows to converse xG to real goals (because i had FM'ed games with 3+xG and 0-0)

+1

kireby said: I have a little tweak (if it could be called a tweak at all) - set attacking mentality while playing vs teams weaker than you. It allows to converse xG to real goals (because i had FM'ed games with 3+xG and 0-0)

It would be too similar to Red 2.0, which is essentially Blue 2.0 with attacking mentality and overlap. I use it against opponents vulnerable in the flanks.

0

Prutton said: @Zippo, what are the requirements to have this final version of Blue tested? Is there a minimum number of people approving it or it needs it's own topic?

I think you should listed the things you changes. Just like Magician did so the admin can considered to took a new test or not
Also don't mind about it too much. People still used it and got great result and bring joy to people. That's the thing you really want, not the score on the table.

+1

ta2199 said: I think you should listed the things you changes. Just like Magician did so the admin can considered to took a new test or not
Also don't mind about it too much. People still used it and got great result and bring joy to people. That's the thing you really want, not the score on the table.


Thank you. Sometimes I just want to know if the changes are really effective or just my confirmation bias, so I know what is worth exploring and what should be dropped. For example, I want to know if from next patch I will start optimizing from Blue 1.0 or 2.0, or even Red 2.0. Without any tests, I can only assume that Blue 2.0 and Red 2.0 are better, but without 100% certainty.

0

Prutton said: Thank you. Sometimes I just want to know if the changes are really effective or just my confirmation bias, so I know what is worth exploring and what should be dropped. For example, I want to know if from next patch I will start optimizing from Blue 1.0 or 2.0, or even Red 2.0. Without any tests, I can only assume that Blue 2.0 and Red 2.0 are better, but without 100% certainty.

Do you have some tips for play from semi-pro football club ? I'm struggling with 2nd season because my football team so poor and have quite bad player

0

ta2199 said: Do you have some tips for play from semi-pro football club ? I'm struggling with 2nd season because my football team so poor and have quite bad player

You have less training and worse training facilities, so focus on training that gives match benefits (Attacking Movements and Defensive Movements), cohesion and happiness (Match Practice and Team Bonding). On attributes, you want high Determination and Natural Fitness (free attributes that suit the play style), as well as Work Rate and Bravery (to make sure they commit), and Teamwork (collective over individual). Since the players are awful, you need to make sure they are willing to sweat and follow the tactics.

Other than that, if a player has bad personality, showing negative body language often during matches, then it's better to let them go and hire someone else. Since you don't have good scouting range (often staff knowledge only), you must scout manually. That means going to each team in the upper division (one level above) and offering trials to everyone in the position you want to hire, for 4 weeks. Once you reveal the stats, let go of the dead wood on trial and continue offering trials until you find someone useful. There is no much difference between loans and transfers, since you can barely profit from transfers anyway. If you cannot find players in the upper division, search in your own division.

Another way to search player is going to scout centre, search player, then marking the option "unsure" for transfer and loan. Offer 4 week trials to everyone in the list, 30 at a time, letting go of the useless when revealed.

Keep your team happy at all times, complimenting when they win and complimenting good trainings, any good match (8.0+) and good form (7.0+). Warn them when they are in a bad form (6.2-). Every in a while, after a big score, tell them to not let it get to their heads, to avoid complacency. Also, if your team underperformed, let them know you are unhappy (just not too often). This will keep the players focused, because bad players easily go into a bad spiral with their weak mentalities.

Finally, I always use the encourage shout when not winning, and praise when winning. All others usually give bad feedback. Also, keep the players fresh since the tactic has high demand, to avoid injuries. Since the players are bad, there is no much difference between who plays, so having a rested player is often better because of the physical aspect.

There are lots of other small things, but I guess they are common to all clubs, not just semi-pros.

P.S.: I usually play with teams with income of ~50k euros per year, and my rule is to never spend more than my income. Some teams have higher income and can be more aggressive, using more scouts to get better players.

Edited 5 days ago by Prutton
+2

@Prutton We finally becoming something more than just a team of fools in Europe. Won Barca two times, Juventus, lost to Ajax 2 times though.. But we could do more already 3-4 seasons ago if Russian champion would be in 1st pot at UCL draw, we always in 4th pot

Edited 5 days ago by kireby
+1

kireby said: @Prutton We finally becoming something more than just a team of fools in Europe. Won Barca two times, Juventus, lost to Ajax 2 times though.. But we could do more already 3-4 seasons ago if Russian champion would be in 1st pot at UCL draw, we always in 4th pot

After Messi and CR retired it got easier, right? Just kidding, good job there! I wonder how much weaker you are than those teams you started to beat.

+1

Prutton said: After Messi and CR retired it got easier, right? Just kidding, good job there! I wonder how much weaker you are than those teams you started to beat.

Haha, looks like this. Btw, Messi is the Head of Youth Development in Almeria, lol.
Can you help to understand why some players at SS scoring every match while others even who have good shooting are absolutely crap scoring near 5-7 goals per season.

0

kireby said: Haha, looks like this. Btw, Messi is the Head of Youth Development in Almeria, lol.
Can you help to understand why some players at SS scoring every match while others even who have good shooting are absolutely crap scoring near 5-7 goals per season.


To be honest, it can be many different things. One SS can be worse than the other (low Off The Ball and Anticipation, maybe). Maybe one winger is worse and more assists happen from one side. Maybe the SS is in a horrible form, which can last a long time in this match engine. Maybe he gets tired or injuried too often. Maybe one of the SS is good at passing and often think it's better to pass than shoot, making the other score more. Maybe he always cuts outside and has a foot that favours crossing instead of shooting. As you can see, there are too many possible causes. It's hard to know. With me, goals are pretty evenly distributed.

0

Prutton said: To be honest, it can be many different things. One SS can be worse than the other (low Off The Ball and Anticipation, maybe). Maybe one winger is worse and more assists happen from one side. Maybe the SS is in a horrible form, which can last a long time in this match engine. Maybe he gets tired or injuried too often. Maybe one of the SS is good at passing and often think it's better to pass than shoot, making the other score more. Maybe he always cuts outside and has a foot that favours crossing instead of shooting. As you can see, there are too many possible causes. It's hard to know. With me, goals are pretty evenly distributed.

Understood, last question, do you buy strikers (ofc with pass, off the ball etc) and teach team SS or AMC?
From my experience, the best goalscorers were AMC.
Look at this beast bought for 1.5m

+1

kireby said: Understood, last question, do you buy strikers (ofc with pass, off the ball etc) and teach team SS or AMC?
From my experience, the best goalscorers were AMC


I do both if the stats are good. However, AMC usually are better because they get Forward attributes for a cheaper cost, since each position has different weights for attributes.

P.S.: This dude will score like crazy!

Edited 5 days ago by Prutton
+1

@Prutton

I would be joking if I said this was not the best tactic I have ever used, my first season with Benfica I have not conceded a goal yet in the first 10 league matches also unbeaten with a group of Bayern and Lazio, we beat Bayern 6-0 at home.

this tactic makes FM 21 feel easy :D

+2

OpticFawn said: @Prutton

I would be joking if I said this was not the best tactic I have ever used, my first season with Benfica I have not conceded a goal yet in the first 10 league matches also unbeaten with a group of Bayern and Lazio, we beat Bayern 6-0 at home.

this tactic makes FM 21 feel easy :D


Thank you for testing. I will do like you suggested and post Blue 2.0 on fm-base. Gonna create a more descriptive post to explain how the tactic works and what kind of players are expected to it. Then I will also copy the more descriptive topic here.

P.S.: Done.

Edited 4 days ago by Prutton
+1

Prutton said: Thank you for testing. I will do like you suggested and post Blue 2.0 on fm-base. Gonna create a more descriptive post to explain how the tactic works and what kind of players are expected to it. Then I will also copy the more descriptive topic here.

P.S.: Done.


That's amazing, no problem I wish you luck.

And again all kudos to you for creating the best tactic in the game:thup:

+1

OpticFawn said: That's amazing, no problem I wish you luck.

And again all kudos to you for creating the best tactic in the game:thup:


Haha, thanks for the words. I don't think my tactic is better or worse than the top, but I'd say I am proud of it. Now I plan to make a defensive tactic to minimize goals against, to be used when you have a good lead and want to avoid a comeback. I am aiming for a tactic that can take less than 15 goals in the entire season in a holiday test, even if it doesn't win the league.

0

I like the idea of having a good park the bus tactic @Prutton. I have just been changing mentality to cautious on ZaZ Blue 2.0. You might want to try it as the benchmark.

+1

kireby said: I have a little tweak (if it could be called a tweak at all) - set attacking mentality while playing vs teams weaker than you. It allows to converse xG to real goals (because i had FM'ed games with 3+xG and 0-0)

Instead, Change MR/ML to AMR/L and changed them to IW(Su)
Early Result but look good

+1

Mark said: I like the idea of having a good park the bus tactic @Prutton. I have just been changing mentality to cautious on ZaZ Blue 2.0. You might want to try it as the benchmark.

I tried different mentalities to see which would work better. Cautious gave me the following results:



It's definitely better defensively, taking around 2/3 of the goals from Blue 2.0. I am still checking if I can improve this, as well as reduce the intensity to rest players and avoid injuries.

ta2199 said: Instead, Change MR/ML to AMR/L and changed them to IW(Su)
Early Result but look good


Gonna try it later. Didn't see IW working in this patch yet, but it would be nice if it did.

P.S.: It seems to work surprisingly well. I am running a second test to see if it was a fluke. I tried it before to change wingers by something else, since very few of my goals happen from crosses. However, I didn't try Inverted Wingers since all tactics with them was performing really weak. I will check if IW is better as ML or AML, then compare with DW and see if it's an improvement. Thanks for the tip.

P.S.2: IW as AML/AMR is better than IW as ML/MR. However, it doesn't seem as stable as DW. I am not saying it's worse, but it doesn't seem better either, so I won't test any further, since I am testing in another direction (park the bus).

Edited 2 days ago by Prutton
+1

Prutton said: I tried different mentalities to see which would work better. Cautious gave me the following results:



It's definitely better defensively, taking around 2/3 of the goals from Blue 2.0. I am still checking if I can improve this, as well as reduce the intensity to rest players and avoid injuries.



Gonna try it later. Didn't see IW working in this patch yet, but it would be nice if it did.

P.S.: It seems to work surprisingly well. I am running a second test to see if it was a fluke. I tried it before to change wingers by something else, since very few of my goals happen from crosses. However, I didn't try Inverted Wingers since all tactics with them was performing really weak. I will check if IW is better as ML or AML, then compare with DW and see if it's an improvement. Thanks for the tip.

P.S.2: IW as AML/AMR is better than IW as ML/MR. However, it doesn't seem as stable as DW. I am not saying it's worse, but it doesn't seem better either, so I won't test any further, since I am testing in another direction (park the bus).


Yeah, I Just do that when i really need a goal

+1

ta2199 said: Yeah, I Just do that when i really need a goal

My plan is to develop a variant of Blue 2.0 for when you want to hold a score (park the bus) and another when you are desperate for a score. Right now, it seems like just changing the mentality to cautious and very attacking can do the trick, but I am checking if there are better options. In any case, I would recommend training the tactics with those mentalities to make sure the players have enough tactical familiarity to make them perform well.

+1