I even retrain McTominay to play MR-DW and Fred to DR-IWB(Su). So there's nothing impossible. Just try to have as many as possible friendly game and let him play at the new position.
But if the ST is slow then just sell him or loan him away
ta2199 said: I even retrain McTominay to play MR-DW and Fred to DR-IWB(Su). So there's nothing impossible. Just try to have as many as possible friendly game and let him play at the new position.
But if the ST is slow then just sell him or loan him away Expand
There is a hidden attribute called versatility that affects the speed to learn new positions. Some learn very fast while others learn very slow.
I find it very helpful for us users, if you list the various characteristics role by role to look at when buying players. I have put the values you say in the various posts (acceleration, speed above all and a step below agility and dribbling) but I have not found players who have impressed me. If I could comply with my request, millions of users would also be happy. In the meantime, thank you very much for everything you do for us who, like you, love this great game.
I find it very helpful for us users, if you list the various characteristics role by role to look at when buying players. I have put the values you say in the various posts (acceleration, speed above all and a step below agility and dribbling) but I have not found players who have impressed me. If I could comply with my request, millions of users would also be happy. In the meantime, thank you very much for everything you do for us who, like you, love this great game. Expand
I usually hire players like this: 1. Go to player search and make sure transfer interest box is marked. 2. Add a filter for position, age, nationality and key attributes, then set it to the desired values. --- For example: accomplished ML, under 23 years old, UK and Irish region, Acceleration 14+, Pace 14+, Agility 12+, Dribbling 12+. 3. If too many players appear, increase the key attributes. 4. Change the view to show key attributes (set it to physical attributes or add new columns). 5. Sort the table by a key attribute, usually Acceleration or Pace. 6. Check players individually. If they are acceptable, right click and ask agent for availability. 7. If cost is ok, ask for a scout report to reveal a bit and maybe see some hidden attributes. 8. Add good players to a shortlist and ask for a trial or to scout for one more week. 9. Make offer for the best players for the desired position. 10. Stall signings until all players reach an agreement, then choose the best and cancel all others.
@ZaZ I think points 2 and 6 are probably the sticking points for most people, myself included. If could propose a scenario. Which player would you choose?
A - CA=160, Acc=12, Pace=12 B - CA=120, Acc=20, Pace=20 C - CA=140, Acc=16, Pace=16
Lets assume other important physical stats are equal and the other points are distributed to Technical and Mental attributes and you are the manager of the best team in the world
drhay53 said: I'd probably go for the 140 personally because 20 pace and acc will not leave much CA to distribute for the 120. Expand
Is your thought process here that the 140 guy will be an overall better player with good speed as opposed to a below average player with exceptional speed? So its not just about Speed. Pace and Acceleration are the most important attributes but the other attributes need to be above a minimal threshold?
Middleweight165 said: @ZaZ I think points 2 and 6 are probably the sticking points for most people, myself included. If could propose a scenario. Which player would you choose?
A - CA=160, Acc=12, Pace=12 B - CA=120, Acc=20, Pace=20 C - CA=140, Acc=16, Pace=16
Lets assume other important physical stats are equal and the other points are distributed to Technical and Mental attributes and you are the manager of the best team in the world Expand
I don't play with hidden attributes revealed. I used to play like that before, but the gameplay changes completely. With everything visible, I used to think only about the future and building a perfect squad. With those stats hidden, I can think more about the current season, trying to guess the player hidden attributes based on feeling. I don't mind those that use Genie Scout or In-Game Editor, I just enjoy more playing without them.
That being said, if I could see the attributes, I would choose player B without thinking twice. Just 3 points in either pace or acceleration is enough to drop a tactic from top tier to mediocre (7.0 to 5.6), but we are talking about 4 points in each. If it was 1 or 2 points of difference (combined) I would think about it, but 4 in each, it's a no brainer. Top speed for the win!
Middleweight165 said: Is your thought process here that the 140 guy will be an overall better player with good speed as opposed to a below average player with exceptional speed? So its not just about Speed. Pace and Acceleration are the most important attributes but the other attributes need to be above a minimal threshold? Expand
That's my thought process yes but I haven't quite adopted the attribute tests here to the level that @ZaZ showed in the next post.
I think the point that I was making though is that it's probably actually pretty hard for a player with 120 CA to get up to 20 pace/acc, because those are so expensive in CA. In fact, I just looked through my own 90,000 player database in 2033, and there are no players with 20/20 or even 19/19, and only 5 players with 18/18 pac/acc. The lowest CA is 126, and honestly, he's not a bad player. I might play him if he was on my team.
Honestly though I do things a bit differently. I try to make my entire team home-grown. So I only use either my own youth, or I buy them before they turn 19. I evaluate my team by dumping their attributes to html and then calculating the weighted average of the player's attributes for each role that he could play in. (I sometimes override the numbers for things like PPMs or hierarchy). So I'm kind of stuck with how well players develop. In practice, I've seen a few players get to 17/17, but they were quite good overall. So in my experience, if you find a 16/16 140 CA player, he's going to be good enough to play significant minutes on a team that can win any league in europe fairly regularly.
ZaZ said: I don't play with hidden attributes revealed. I used to play like that before, but the gameplay changes completely. With everything visible, I used to think only about the future and building a perfect squad. With those stats hidden, I can think more about the current season, trying to guess the player hidden attributes based on feeling. I don't mind those that use Genie Scout or In-Game Editor, I just enjoy more playing without them.
That being said, if I could see the attributes, I would choose player B without thinking twice. Just 3 points in either pace or acceleration is enough to drop a tactic from top tier to mediocre (7.0 to 5.6), but we are talking about 4 points in each. If it was 1 or 2 points of difference (combined) I would think about it, but 4 in each, it's a no brainer. Top speed for the win! Expand
ZaZ said: I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results. Expand
If I wanted to tweak ZaZ Blue 3.0 to be more like Comet (1xAM, 1xST), would I just move one of the AM into the ST position and change his role to AF? Are there any other changes I should make?
Middleweight165 said: If I wanted to tweak ZaZ Blue 3.0 to be more like Comet (1xAM, 1xST), would I just move one of the AM into the ST position and change his role to AF? Are there any other changes I should make? Expand
Also change the player instructions to match. However, I feel like Fanatic and Comet are possibly better than what you would achieve with a Tweak from Blue.
ZaZ said: Also change the player instructions to match. However, I feel like Fanatic and Comet are possibly better than what you would achieve with a Tweak from Blue. Expand
Cause base on Blue 3.0 2 AF which score 6.6 (less than FANATIC 0.2 points). But still I think if you do have great, fast striker. Maybe the AF tactic would fit you more and can earn more points
@ta2199 just answered for me. Also, Fanatic seems to be working better than Comet, so if you want to use advanced strikers, that would be a better option.
ZaZ said: @ta2199 just answered for me. Also, Fanatic seems to be working better than Comet, so if you want to use advanced strikers, that would be a better option. Expand
The reason I said Comet rather than Fanatic is because I want to play with an AM and a ST. After the first season I will change to ZaZ Blue 3.0 and sell the ST
Middleweight165 said: The reason I said Comet rather than Fanatic is because I want to play with an AM and a ST. After the first season I will change to ZaZ Blue 3.0 and sell the ST Expand
If the ST is good and you move him to ST position. Maybe your team even perform better compare to 2 AMC version. Remember player quality also contribute to how well your team is performing. If the ST score a lots then just keep him. Dont need to sell him anyway
My latest season. First 15 games or so I used red but I started realizing my team has improved enough to jump back to blue. Also in the champions league final, haven't played it yet.
update: also won the champions league. Was down 0-1 and had a player sent off at 35 minutes. Scored 2 in the 2nd half (including a dramatic 90th minute penalty) to complete the comeback with 10 men
demon said: @drhay53 did you use the original tactic or did any modification? Expand
I switched the DM to DM-Support simply because I had been using Red and all of my DM's were already fluid in that pos/role/duty. I also occasionally played on balanced mentality (away matches in europe and against PSG).
Something I have done in the past and that even blue seems to benefit from is to have a totally different tactic in one of your slots to switch to when form starts to get iffy. In this case, I decided to use the MP.v2 tactic from here, due to it's similarity to blue, and also because I wanted to experiment with whether or not I could get more out of my CM-Attack player (I couldn't; I'm just selling him, I can't figure out why he won't settle into the team after 3 years). I played it probably 5-10 times.
I like to switch things up the match before a big game in Europe as well, because I have a theory that the AI gets their "scout next opposition" report and makes subtle adjustments to their style based on that report. By playing something other than my main tactic, my theory is that I can keep my true playing style "hidden" from them a little bit.
I don't believe in "the AI solves your tactic" nonsense, but all of my most successful seasons have come when I've had some sort of slightly different tactic to switch to, which I've used to halt runs of iffy form, or before important matches. I think it affects player focus/concentration/morale, and affects the AI subtly. You know that press conference question about "do you think <so-and-so-team> might mix things up?". I think that there is some sort of "unsettling" affect to the opposition if you mix things up.
Oh, also, I trained light blue on balanced mentality, and used balanced instead of cautious against big teams. I have noticed for a couple of seasons now that if I play cautious in the first half I nearly always concede 2 goals. Balanced was a lot more stable for me against big european teams.
debelizec19 said: Dear ZaZ, what do You think about young players, is it better to send them on loan or train them in young squad with good coaches? Thank You! Expand
I usually keep them at my team because I like to upgrade the youth setup to maximum. If I feel like some have potential to play in the main team soon, I will even let them train with the upper team and participate in some friendly matches.
@debelizec19, if a young player don't participate in competitive matches then he won't develop or he'll develop at a very slow rate so participating in competitive matches is the most important thing for the development
Poacher said: @debelizec19, if a young player don't participate in competitive matches then he won't develop or he'll develop at a very slow rate so participating in competitive matches is the most important thing for the development Expand
You can do this by going to team selection screen - Filter - select U19/U23. And after that you can choose quick pick or manually pick the players form the youth team. This will give them some playtime with first team.
My experience loaning players out is awful. I only loan players I can't get rid off, but never for development. Every time I loan someone for development, they are either never played or get injuried the entire time. Possibly my fault for not choosing good teams for them, but I prefer the safety of home.
Middleweight165 said: Even if he has no rating at AMC?
I even retrain McTominay to play MR-DW and Fred to DR-IWB(Su). So there's nothing impossible. Just try to have as many as possible friendly game and let him play at the new position.
But if the ST is slow then just sell him or loan him away
ta2199 said: I even retrain McTominay to play MR-DW and Fred to DR-IWB(Su). So there's nothing impossible. Just try to have as many as possible friendly game and let him play at the new position.
But if the ST is slow then just sell him or loan him away
There is a hidden attribute called versatility that affects the speed to learn new positions. Some learn very fast while others learn very slow.
@ZaZ
I find it very helpful for us users, if you list the various characteristics role by role to look at when buying players. I have put the values you say in the various posts (acceleration, speed above all and a step below agility and dribbling) but I have not found players who have impressed me. If I could comply with my request, millions of users would also be happy. In the meantime, thank you very much for everything you do for us who, like you, love this great game.
Manidaro7 said: @ZaZ
I find it very helpful for us users, if you list the various characteristics role by role to look at when buying players. I have put the values you say in the various posts (acceleration, speed above all and a step below agility and dribbling) but I have not found players who have impressed me. If I could comply with my request, millions of users would also be happy. In the meantime, thank you very much for everything you do for us who, like you, love this great game.
I usually hire players like this:
1. Go to player search and make sure transfer interest box is marked.
2. Add a filter for position, age, nationality and key attributes, then set it to the desired values.
--- For example: accomplished ML, under 23 years old, UK and Irish region, Acceleration 14+, Pace 14+, Agility 12+, Dribbling 12+.
3. If too many players appear, increase the key attributes.
4. Change the view to show key attributes (set it to physical attributes or add new columns).
5. Sort the table by a key attribute, usually Acceleration or Pace.
6. Check players individually. If they are acceptable, right click and ask agent for availability.
7. If cost is ok, ask for a scout report to reveal a bit and maybe see some hidden attributes.
8. Add good players to a shortlist and ask for a trial or to scout for one more week.
9. Make offer for the best players for the desired position.
10. Stall signings until all players reach an agreement, then choose the best and cancel all others.
However, I believe there are more qualified people to talk about it. I'll leave some links of discussions about that, including some filters in game and filters for genie scout.
https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1379-where-can-i-find-more-information-on-the-9-important-attributes/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/938-the-most-important-player-attributes-in-fm21/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1382-general-consensus-on-most-important-attributes-for-each-position/
@ZaZ I think points 2 and 6 are probably the sticking points for most people, myself included. If could propose a scenario. Which player would you choose?
A - CA=160, Acc=12, Pace=12
B - CA=120, Acc=20, Pace=20
C - CA=140, Acc=16, Pace=16
Lets assume other important physical stats are equal and the other points are distributed to Technical and Mental attributes and you are the manager of the best team in the world
I'd probably go for the 140 personally because 20 pace and acc will not leave much CA to distribute for the 120.
drhay53 said: I'd probably go for the 140 personally because 20 pace and acc will not leave much CA to distribute for the 120.
Is your thought process here that the 140 guy will be an overall better player with good speed as opposed to a below average player with exceptional speed? So its not just about Speed. Pace and Acceleration are the most important attributes but the other attributes need to be above a minimal threshold?
Middleweight165 said: @ZaZ I think points 2 and 6 are probably the sticking points for most people, myself included. If could propose a scenario. Which player would you choose?
A - CA=160, Acc=12, Pace=12
B - CA=120, Acc=20, Pace=20
C - CA=140, Acc=16, Pace=16
Lets assume other important physical stats are equal and the other points are distributed to Technical and Mental attributes and you are the manager of the best team in the world
I don't play with hidden attributes revealed. I used to play like that before, but the gameplay changes completely. With everything visible, I used to think only about the future and building a perfect squad. With those stats hidden, I can think more about the current season, trying to guess the player hidden attributes based on feeling. I don't mind those that use Genie Scout or In-Game Editor, I just enjoy more playing without them.
That being said, if I could see the attributes, I would choose player B without thinking twice. Just 3 points in either pace or acceleration is enough to drop a tactic from top tier to mediocre (7.0 to 5.6), but we are talking about 4 points in each. If it was 1 or 2 points of difference (combined) I would think about it, but 4 in each, it's a no brainer. Top speed for the win!
Middleweight165 said: Is your thought process here that the 140 guy will be an overall better player with good speed as opposed to a below average player with exceptional speed? So its not just about Speed. Pace and Acceleration are the most important attributes but the other attributes need to be above a minimal threshold?
That's my thought process yes but I haven't quite adopted the attribute tests here to the level that @ZaZ showed in the next post.
I think the point that I was making though is that it's probably actually pretty hard for a player with 120 CA to get up to 20 pace/acc, because those are so expensive in CA. In fact, I just looked through my own 90,000 player database in 2033, and there are no players with 20/20 or even 19/19, and only 5 players with 18/18 pac/acc. The lowest CA is 126, and honestly, he's not a bad player. I might play him if he was on my team.
Honestly though I do things a bit differently. I try to make my entire team home-grown. So I only use either my own youth, or I buy them before they turn 19. I evaluate my team by dumping their attributes to html and then calculating the weighted average of the player's attributes for each role that he could play in. (I sometimes override the numbers for things like PPMs or hierarchy). So I'm kind of stuck with how well players develop. In practice, I've seen a few players get to 17/17, but they were quite good overall. So in my experience, if you find a 16/16 140 CA player, he's going to be good enough to play significant minutes on a team that can win any league in europe fairly regularly.
the best
which of the two would you put in the title?
Tavares82 said: which of the two would you put in the title?
I'd go for the fastest one.
Tavares82 said: which of the two would you put in the title?
First. Fast is better, specially for wingers.
ZaZ said: I don't play with hidden attributes revealed. I used to play like that before, but the gameplay changes completely. With everything visible, I used to think only about the future and building a perfect squad. With those stats hidden, I can think more about the current season, trying to guess the player hidden attributes based on feeling. I don't mind those that use Genie Scout or In-Game Editor, I just enjoy more playing without them.
That being said, if I could see the attributes, I would choose player B without thinking twice. Just 3 points in either pace or acceleration is enough to drop a tactic from top tier to mediocre (7.0 to 5.6), but we are talking about 4 points in each. If it was 1 or 2 points of difference (combined) I would think about it, but 4 in each, it's a no brainer. Top speed for the win!
Thanks for the reply mate. Good info for me
ZaZ said: I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results.
If I wanted to tweak ZaZ Blue 3.0 to be more like Comet (1xAM, 1xST), would I just move one of the AM into the ST position and change his role to AF? Are there any other changes I should make?
Middleweight165 said: If I wanted to tweak ZaZ Blue 3.0 to be more like Comet (1xAM, 1xST), would I just move one of the AM into the ST position and change his role to AF? Are there any other changes I should make?
Also change the player instructions to match. However, I feel like Fanatic and Comet are possibly better than what you would achieve with a Tweak from Blue.
ZaZ said: Also change the player instructions to match. However, I feel like Fanatic and Comet are possibly better than what you would achieve with a Tweak from Blue.
Why do you think they would be better?
Middleweight165 said: Why do you think they would be better?
Cause base on Blue 3.0 2 AF which score 6.6 (less than FANATIC 0.2 points). But still I think if you do have great, fast striker. Maybe the AF tactic would fit you more and can earn more points
Middleweight165 said: Why do you think they would be better?
@ta2199 just answered for me. Also, Fanatic seems to be working better than Comet, so if you want to use advanced strikers, that would be a better option.
ZaZ said: @ta2199 just answered for me. Also, Fanatic seems to be working better than Comet, so if you want to use advanced strikers, that would be a better option.
The reason I said Comet rather than Fanatic is because I want to play with an AM and a ST. After the first season I will change to ZaZ Blue 3.0 and sell the ST
Middleweight165 said: The reason I said Comet rather than Fanatic is because I want to play with an AM and a ST. After the first season I will change to ZaZ Blue 3.0 and sell the ST
If the ST is good and you move him to ST position. Maybe your team even perform better compare to 2 AMC version. Remember player quality also contribute to how well your team is performing.
If the ST score a lots then just keep him. Dont need to sell him anyway
My latest season. First 15 games or so I used red but I started realizing my team has improved enough to jump back to blue. Also in the champions league final, haven't played it yet.
update: also won the champions league. Was down 0-1 and had a player sent off at 35 minutes. Scored 2 in the 2nd half (including a dramatic 90th minute penalty) to complete the comeback with 10 men
@drhay53 did you use the original tactic or did any modification?
demon said: @drhay53 did you use the original tactic or did any modification?
I switched the DM to DM-Support simply because I had been using Red and all of my DM's were already fluid in that pos/role/duty. I also occasionally played on balanced mentality (away matches in europe and against PSG).
Something I have done in the past and that even blue seems to benefit from is to have a totally different tactic in one of your slots to switch to when form starts to get iffy. In this case, I decided to use the MP.v2 tactic from here, due to it's similarity to blue, and also because I wanted to experiment with whether or not I could get more out of my CM-Attack player (I couldn't; I'm just selling him, I can't figure out why he won't settle into the team after 3 years). I played it probably 5-10 times.
I like to switch things up the match before a big game in Europe as well, because I have a theory that the AI gets their "scout next opposition" report and makes subtle adjustments to their style based on that report. By playing something other than my main tactic, my theory is that I can keep my true playing style "hidden" from them a little bit.
I don't believe in "the AI solves your tactic" nonsense, but all of my most successful seasons have come when I've had some sort of slightly different tactic to switch to, which I've used to halt runs of iffy form, or before important matches. I think it affects player focus/concentration/morale, and affects the AI subtly. You know that press conference question about "do you think <so-and-so-team> might mix things up?". I think that there is some sort of "unsettling" affect to the opposition if you mix things up.
Oh, also, I trained light blue on balanced mentality, and used balanced instead of cautious against big teams. I have noticed for a couple of seasons now that if I play cautious in the first half I nearly always concede 2 goals. Balanced was a lot more stable for me against big european teams.
Dear ZaZ,
what do You think about young players, is it better to send them on loan or train them in young squad with good coaches?
Thank You!
debelizec19 said: Dear ZaZ,
what do You think about young players, is it better to send them on loan or train them in young squad with good coaches?
Thank You!
I usually keep them at my team because I like to upgrade the youth setup to maximum. If I feel like some have potential to play in the main team soon, I will even let them train with the upper team and participate in some friendly matches.
@debelizec19, if a young player don't participate in competitive matches then he won't develop or he'll develop at a very slow rate so participating in competitive matches is the most important thing for the development
Poacher said: @debelizec19, if a young player don't participate in competitive matches then he won't develop or he'll develop at a very slow rate so participating in competitive matches is the most important thing for the development
You can do this by going to team selection screen - Filter - select U19/U23. And after that you can choose quick pick or manually pick the players form the youth team. This will give them some playtime with first team.
My experience loaning players out is awful. I only loan players I can't get rid off, but never for development. Every time I loan someone for development, they are either never played or get injuried the entire time. Possibly my fault for not choosing good teams for them, but I prefer the safety of home.
ZaZ said: I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results.
This has to get tested. On my Sparta Prague test this tactic is doing great .